2018 Free Agency Database - (Signed: WILLIAMS - McPhee - Scandrick - P-Rich) - (Lauvao, Bergstrom, Nsehke, Taylor, Z. Brown and Quick re-signed)

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Okay, so yes, you could cut Vernon Davis and save decent $$ ... and Kerrigan and Trent are primed for restructures to reduce their cap number. Yes we could cut Norman and Reed. But keep in mind, these are 4 impactful players on this team. You'd better have a plan in place to replace them if you're just going to cut them ...

 

Even still. $22 million in cap space for 2019 as things stand now. Work in 2018 draft picks and you're down to around $19 million with for the Top 51. Factor in the $$ we are currently discussing needing for this year (next year) aka $4m for draft picks, $3-4m for in-season flexibility ... and you're down to $10 million in FREE cap space next year.

 

Brandon Scherff's 5th year option is going to be $12 million.

 

The math does not compute.

 

Add Jonathan Hankins ... and your free cap space next year starts at essentially $0.

 

Don't sign him, and limit future FA signings, and you're going into next year with $22 million in free cap space.

 

And yes, you can cut Norman, cut Reed, cut Davis ... and that gets you a lot of wiggle room. But since when is that good cap management? Cutting 3 impact veterans? Davis sure, but Norman and Reed when healthy are impactful. I don't want to be in a position to cut them just to make logical extensions ...

 

Also, this is why cutting McClain pre-June 1st is good. Absorbs the cap hit this year, and frees him completely up off the books in  2019.

[WelshSkinsFan]

Well again I would say Scherff will be extended before playing on that 5th year option and we will keep the cap hit for next year low if that is needed.  I looked at 2019 cap situations after your first post and to be honest 90% of the teams in the league are in the same situation as we are, that being the case either next years Free Agents are going to be sol or the numbers are going to be very different by the time we get there.  I think the latter is more likely.

 

To the original point, the cap numbers for 2019 are not a reason to not sign Hankins now.  I am ok whichever way we go but if Bruce cited next years cap number as a reason not to sign a FA the coaches want this year then I would call him a liar.  Our roster and cap situation will look vastly different in 12 months time and making decisions now based on a guess of where that may be just means we will sit paralyzed and do nothing.  

[dcdiscokid]

2 minutes ago, WelshSkinsFan said:

Well again I would say Scherff will be extended before playing on that 5th year option and we will keep the cap hit for next year low if that is needed.  I looked at 2019 cap situations after your first post and to be honest 90% of the teams in the league are in the same situation as we are, that being the case either next years Free Agents are going to be sol or the numbers are going to ve very different by the time we get there.  I think the latter is more likely.

 

To the original point, the cap numbers for 2019 are not a reason to not sign Hankins now.  I am ok whichever way we go but if Bruce cited next years cap number as a reason not to sign a FA the coaches want this year then I would call him a liar.  Our roster and cap situation will look vastly different in 12 months time and making decisions now based on a guess of where that may be just means we will sit paralyzed and do nothing.  

There is also the thing about no long term contracts due to collective bargain expiring, so FA will look a lot different.

 

[bedlamVR]

CBA expiring ? 2021 strike or lockout ? Super Bowl baby - book it  what theSkins do ! 

[JSSkinz]

34 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

yes, you can cut Norman, cut Reed, cut Davis ... and that gets you a lot of wiggle room. But since when is that good cap management? Cutting 3 impact veterans?

You have to actually make an impact before you can be called an "impact player".

 

Reed hasn't made an impact since 2015, Davis has like 4 good games a year and disappears in the 2nd half of the season.

 

Norman is the only one I'm on the fence about but this season will tell us if he's worth a $14.5M cap hit in 2019.

[Rocky52Mc]

6 minutes ago, WelshSkinsFan said:

Well again I would say Scherff will be extended before playing on that 5th year option and we will keep the cap hit for next year low if that is needed.  I looked at 2019 cap situations after your first post and to be honest 90% of the teams in the league are in the same situation as we are, that being the case either next years Free Agents are going to be sol or the numbers are going to ve very different by the time we get there.  I think the latter is more likely.

 

To the original point, the cap numbers for 2019 are not a reason to not sign Hankins now.  I am ok whichever way we go but if Bruce cited next years cap number as a reason not to sign a FA the coaches want this year then I would call him a liar.  Our roster and cap situation will look vastly different in 12 months time and making decisions now based on a guess of where that may be just means we will sit paralyzed and do nothing.  

 

I think it's rather pointless to be counting cap for next year unless you have the mindset and the plan of the FO in front of you. Norman, Trent, Kerrigan, and Reed/Davis; some of these are great contract restructuring / trade opportunities. I don't think it's unrealistic to question whether Reed or Norman will remain here beyond 2018 if things continue to look the same as 2017. 

 

The Redskins have a lot of money lined up in backup offensive and defensive line positions that will be handled next off-season and or after June 1st of this year. Specifically McClain, McGee, TJ Clemmings, Ty Nsekhe. Wouldn't be shocked to see the Skins draft their replacements this year. Over $10,000,000 is tied up in McGee and McClain in 2019 and neither of them could be here next year. 

 

If the Redskins walked into 2019 with $15,000,000 in cap space I'd consider that a success, seeing as they're on pace to hold 10-11 draft picks next year. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

I'm looking and can't find it, maybe I just missed this info, but do we know what Pernell McPhee signed for?

[Skinsinparadise]

50 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

True, but at the expense of what? Hankins was a second round pick. The guy who replaced him in NY was a UDFA. 

 

Actually he wasn't replaced by Harrison.  The Giants signed Harrison a run stuffing NT for big money.  http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/damon-harrison-10400/

 

Those two (Hankins, Harrison) played together, they were extremely good at stopping the run.  The year before that they stunk at stopping the run just like we did.  But a big time run stuffing D lineman added to Hankins in the fold turned their mega weakness into a mega strength.

 

Hankins left a year later.  Ultimately, replaced by Tomlison a 2nd round pick.  Granted everything for the Giants fall apart last year.

 

50 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

There is talent all over the draft Hankins isn't hte only option.

 

The problem is we don't have a gazillion picks to land all this talent.  If for example a guy like Fitzpatrick or James land at 13 -- are we just going to skip them because they don't meet a more immediate need?  2nd round are we committed to RB?  We essentially have 2 high draft picks.  The guys that go 4th through 7th could pan out but the odds aren't on their side at the very least to make an immediate impact.  It happens from time to time that a lower round pick makes an instant impact but its more the exception as opposed to the rule.

 

50 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

We just went through this with Brown being a run stuffing ILB and not a good cover guy and it lowered his price GREATLY. I think the Redskins still offered the highest contract but way below what he thought his market was. What if thats the case here? He is not the player that Suh is and what if he wants Suh money?

 

If he wants Suh money, he will likely keep waiting for it.  I'd bet he likely gets 8-9 million a year and some team will ultimately pay it.   Personally I'd have given Richardson the 8 million a year plus 3 million in incentives -- that was a great deal IMO.  Hankerson is the last man standing -- as opposed to the only option we've had at that position so I think some of the frustration is based on that.  

 

Having said that, as I mentioned here -- their big FA score seems to happen typically in April.  So personally I am not closing the book on anything.

 

 

Or maybe its this below? Vea in the first?  Settle or someone else in the 2nd.  My only issue with that is I hate boxing the draft into a need based exercise -- especially in a year where you are missing a third rounder.

 

Chad Forbes‏ @NFLDraftBites 9h9 hours ago

More

Chad Forbes Retweeted Gary Cinelli

Skins hesitance sign Johnathan Hankins tells me Vita Vea is very much in cluster of players targeted 13th overall. Can’t have faith in Stacy McGee & Terrell McClain combination. Front Office genius that advocated those 2 signings should be taken to task..

[HigSkin]

Any of the tweets I read, Hankin's is looking for $10-11 million thus the reason he hasn't been signed but somebody's going to eventually overpay for him. 

[bobandweave]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I thought what was amusing about it was he also said the Team President should also be judged by their W-L record.   If so, Bruce is a self-declared loser.  So I wonder how deep he believes in what he was saying there.  By his own definition -- Alex = winner.  Bruce = loser. 

 

Thank you, glad to know someone gets it. 

 

No NFL Team President should be saying something as dumb as "QB's should be judged by wins and losses" which is something a casual fan would say. I'd bet my months pay that no good GM would have ever been caught dead saying that. Shows what a moron Bruce Allen is. He is the President of this team. If the team is losing his is a loser with that thinking. 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

 

Thank you, glad to know someone gets it. 

 

No NFL Team President should be saying something as dumb as "QB's should be judged by wins and losses" which is something a casual fan would say. I'd bet my months pay that no good GM would have ever been caught dead saying that. Shows what a moron Bruce Allen is. He is the President of this team. If the team is losing his is a loser with that thinking. 

 

 if you listen to his whole quote he flat out said the team president should be judged by his W-L record.  He started with the QB, then said everyone from the team equipment guy to the team president should be judged by the W-L record.  I don't know if that was him trying to recover from the QB comment but he actually put himself in the conversation too as to how he should be judged by their W-L record.  If so, on the aggregate its abysmal. 

[bobandweave]

4 hours ago, Unbias said:

For the future, just draft one. We have Vernon Davis, who was just better than Reed last year. He's the stop gap. From there draft a TE in the second day of this year (Mike Gesicki/Dalton Schultz/Dallas Goedert/Durham Smythe/Troy Fumagalli) then develop him at a fraction of what Reed is. If anything whomever we draft would be an upgrade as a blocker. 

 

I agreed with you about Reed but not this idea of drafting a TE. TE's have one of the hardest positions to learn to play in the NFL. They have to learn to play as an offensive linemen. They also have to learn to play as a receiver. That's why you see so many of these guys coming on a year or two after drafting them. The ones that could play right away cost too much in draft capital, the ones that are there for the team to take in the 4-6th rounds all have major worts to there games and excel usually as blockers. To me this is a good position to pick from in Free Agency. Push the issue of career slow development off to another team, weed out the bust players, and find a guy who can actually play who is young like a Trey Burton and sign that guy. IMO

[RWJ]

15 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

Any of the tweets I read, Hankin's is looking for $10-11 million thus the reason he hasn't been signed but somebody's going to eventually overpay for him. 

Like I've thought, keep an eye on the Titans and Jets.  I think it will be one of those two.  They've got more cap money than we do.  

[bobandweave]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I'm sure somewhere this has been discussed, but Trent William, Morgan Moses and Jordan Reed are not gong to participate in OTA's, and CT just had his first workout a few days ago.  (He posted this on Instegram.

 

Color me skeptical that this team is going to get and stay healthy enough to win 10 games this year.  

 

So, we're going to hear about injuries and hard schedule when they finish 7-9 again.  

 

Reminder: they did NOTHING in FA to really improve, so they are counting on the guys they are getting back.  

 

If this is all Bruce, fine, but I'm going to hold the entire organization, Dan, Bruce, Jay, Doug Williams, all of them accountable.  They're in it together, if Jay doesn't think he can win 10 games with this strategy, he's got to "manage up" and get changes that he needs.  

 

Also Jay indicated they wouldn't sign Hankins.  

 

God they are betting on players returning healthy, staying healthy, and development of players.  They better be right.  

 

Yup and they won't be right, when is Bruce ever right? That's the problem. Great post, exactly how I see it. They are banking on mistakes they made in the past to carry the team and it won't happen. Just throwing good money after bad. Stupid.

 

We want things to be better, the problem is until they fire Bruce they never will be. 

[bobandweave]

3 hours ago, MisterPinstripe said:

Allen didnt have an injury history. The reason he fell was because people were concerned about his shoulders, something that hadnt yet kept him out of anything. His injury during the season was his foot... Not really connected.

 

Ummm ya if they were worried about his shoulders that means he fell due to injury and health concerns like I said, no clue how you come away with anything different then that. He feel due to worry about his health. He played 4 games and was injured. Seems pretty smart those 16 other clubs who passed on him right now. As much as I like and I'm hopeful for Jonathan Allen, draft busts happen every single year. He has a make or break season coming up. I hope he plays to an All Pro level because if he gets injured again all he will be remembered for was a first round bust. 

 

3 hours ago, MisterPinstripe said:

 

Phil Taylor was a camp guy who they gave a  try and he ended up looking really good. Not a big loss there, at least it happened early in preseason.

 

The point about PT was that he was the one NT the front office pointed to last season saying "We signed one" when they addressed the position. That one guy was a first round draft pick in 2011 who was a bust. This happened because they decided to not re-sign Chris Baker, again being cheap at the position. The loss of Baker took the rush defense from middle of the pack in the league to league worst last year. 

 

What we have here is a long pattern of Bruce Allen screwing up at building a team and ignoring the position. 

 

 

3 hours ago, MisterPinstripe said:

 

Jordon Reed has had continual issues, cant argue too much with that. Though at the same time he had a healthy year when he got the contact and compared to what people are getting now its not bad.

 

How is 3rd highest paid TE in the league not a "bad" contract when that guy spends more time injured then not and is one hit to head away from retirement? 

 

 

3 hours ago, MisterPinstripe said:

 

We have PLENTY of guys who have been getting hurt who dont have an injury history. You named Allen, which doesnt apply as I pointed out, a camp guy in Phil Taylor, and then Jordan Reed. What are all of these other injury prone guys we have signed and who have been injured?

 

Well the newest Redskin has an injury history. You know that guy that was signed yesterday. Care to disagree on that as well?

[Est.1974]

21 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Like I've thought, keep an eye on the Titans and Jets.  I think it will be one of those two.  They've got more cap money than we do.  

 

I think he'll go elsewhere, however i don't think cap space is the key. I simply think we have set a contract limit based on our valuation of him and another team will pay way more than what we will. He maybe even takes a one year deal, who knows.

[bowhunter]

3 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

I think he'll go elsewhere, however i don't think cap space is the key. I simply think we have set a contract limit based on our valuation of him and another team will pay way more than what we will. He maybe even takes a one year deal, who knows.

IMO, a one-year deal may not be a bad option here. If Vea falls to #13, we grab him and can let Big Hank move on next year. If Vea doesn't make it and Hank does well, extend him.

[Malapropismic Depository]

It's hard to be optimistic about Reed, when you consider he's had "lingering hamstring issues" since he was a Freshman in college, literally.

[Skinsinparadise]

• Blacksmithn Skin Man‏ @bshultzie2 3h3 hours ago

  More

  LG is still glaring. Interior D line. RB1. Still need serious pieces with no 3rd round choice. I hope they aren't planning to fill any of those needs with another 4th round selection.

   

•  

  John Keim‏Verified account @john_keim 3h3 hours ago

  More

  yeah, will be interesting for these reasons. It's why a Lauvao return remains possible. Also, guys will be released post-draft they might sign. But have wondered same. Why they want a lot for Cravens...

  1 reply0 retweets1 like

   

 

[oraphus]

44 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

 

 

The point about PT was that he was the one NT the front office pointed to last season saying "We signed one" when they addressed the position. That one guy was a first round draft pick in 2011 who was a bust. This happened because they decided to not re-sign Chris Baker, again being cheap at the position. The loss of Baker took the rush defense from middle of the pack in the league to league worst last year. 

Are you seriously using Baker as an example? The guys was a diva and lazy. That is the reason why Washington did not tender him an offer and also the reason why he got cut by Tampa 1y in to a 3y deal since their run D and overall D was the worst in the NFL...and thats with MCcoy on the other side. Not resigning him was one of the better moves for this FO last season.

[Skinsinparadise]

As for Jay and Bruce joined at the hip as for spending in FA.  No way to know.  But there are two examples that say no.  According to Mike Jones, Jay wanted them to up the offer to Kirk and figure things out in 2017 but that didn't happen.  Also according to multiple beat guys, Jay wanted Desean Jackson back.  The FO didn't want to do it at the price Desean wanted.

[skinny21]

3 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

I mean this is a low round draft pick who may not have been ready. We saw how Ioannidis played his rookie year, how Moses played, how Fuller played. All them are turning out to be good players. Its possible that Sprinkles has potential he hasn't tapped into and coaches are still trying to bring it out.

Totally agree.  I would say you never want to be too quick to write off developmental guys, but you also always want to prepare for them not working out.   

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

True, but at the expense of what? Hankins was a second round pick. The guy who replaced him in NY was a UDFA. Ioannidis was a 5th rounder. There is talent all over the draft Hankins isn't hte only option. How loud will he get in the locker room when he's replaced by Tim Settle? What happens if he underpeforms, or if he is injured? What do we do when he says that he doesn't want to play NT?

 

Its not that any of this WILL happen, but it all needs to be taken into place. Then a second element comes into play, how valuable is a NT, or a run stuffing DT? We just went through this with Brown being a run stuffing ILB and not a good cover guy and it lowered his price GREATLY. I think the Redskins still offered the highest contract but way below what he thought his market was. What if thats the case here? He is not the player that Suh is and what if he wants Suh money?

Sure, you want to be a bit cautious with cap dollars, you also want to take some chances when you think it can have a significant impact on the roster.  How important is a run stuffing DT/NT?  Look at the Skins track record.  Look at the better dlines out there.  Look what happens when we lose one of our DTs.  Look at the bust rate for dlinemen, and look at what the players want us to add.  

 

I feel like I generally agree with you in terms of philosophy, but take it a step further than I’d recommend.  So this just my opinion, but I don’t worry about a guy potentially becoming negative in the locker room because of the potential we draft his replacement.  If we find a replacement for Hankins, then you cut or trade him.  Allen/Schneider generally structure contracts that way anyway.  

 

Most importantly, particularly looking at the dline, if faced with the choice of potentially doubling up on the dline, vs the possibility that we don’t address it at all (if the draft doesn’t break our way)... that’s an easy choice.  

1 hour ago, pcbothwel said:

Ehhh. We have Dunbar, Moreau, and Hosley... Im sure one of the latter two will cover for scandrick... and im sure we will draft 1 or 2 corners over the next 2 drafts.

 

And yes, we would need to cover for Brown, But we could either draft one this year, or simply restructure Brown next year in which we'd bring his cap number down from 8.7 to 5.7 (3M savings)

Both fair points.  My point is both extremes are likely wrong - we can free up cap space, but that doesn’t mean it’s a non issue.  

1 hour ago, WelshSkinsFan said:

Well again I would say Scherff will be extended before playing on that 5th year option and we will keep the cap hit for next year low if that is needed.  I looked at 2019 cap situations after your first post and to be honest 90% of the teams in the league are in the same situation as we are, that being the case either next years Free Agents are going to be sol or the numbers are going to be very different by the time we get there.  I think the latter is more likely.

 

To the original point, the cap numbers for 2019 are not a reason to not sign Hankins now.  I am ok whichever way we go but if Bruce cited next years cap number as a reason not to sign a FA the coaches want this year then I would call him a liar.  Our roster and cap situation will look vastly different in 12 months time and making decisions now based on a guess of where that may be just means we will sit paralyzed and do nothing.  

Great post, totally agree.  The only defense I see to hold onto money (ie not sign Hankins) is trying to fit in the extensions. 

1 hour ago, JSSkinz said:

You have to actually make an impact before you can be called an "impact player".

 

Reed hasn't made an impact since 2015, Davis has like 4 good games a year and disappears in the 2nd half of the season.

 

Norman is the only one I'm on the fence about but this season will tell us if he's worth a $14.5M cap hit in 2019.

Right.  I mean, we do need replacements, but get on it this year and then decide on the ‘tough’ cuts next year.  

37 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

 

I agreed with you about Reed but not this idea of drafting a TE. TE's have one of the hardest positions to learn to play in the NFL. They have to learn to play as an offensive linemen. They also have to learn to play as a receiver. That's why you see so many of these guys coming on a year or two after drafting them. The ones that could play right away cost too much in draft capital, the ones that are there for the team to take in the 4-6th rounds all have major worts to there games and excel usually as blockers. To me this is a good position to pick from in Free Agency. Push the issue of career slow development off to another team, weed out the bust players, and find a guy who can actually play who is young like a Trey Burton and sign that guy. IMO

First of all, I think you always want a developmental TE.  Secondly, you’re saying these guys take a year or two to develop, so doesn’t it make sense to draft one now, let them develop this year and then reevaluate next year (regarding Davis and Reed)?  Can always cut both and sign a guy... and then we also have 2 developing guys behind that FA.  If I could avoid bringing in a FA TE that brings an 8mil or whatever cap hit, I try to do that by developing draftees.   

[Mr.Will]

4 hours ago, volsmet said:

 

May want to get into coaching. 

Miami is hiring!!

[Taylorcooley1]

5 hours ago, hatchetwound said:

Good?  He played in all 16 games and in the playoffs last year.

Well then hail ya we should be looking at him for the experience for the young guys here

1 hour ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

I'm looking and can't find it, maybe I just missed this info, but do we know what Pernell McPhee signed for?

A huge embarrassment?...

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, bobandweave said:

 

Yup and they won't be right, when is Bruce ever right? That's the problem. Great post, exactly how I see it. They are banking on mistakes they made in the past to carry the team and it won't happen. Just throwing good money after bad. Stupid.

 

We want things to be better, the problem is until they fire Bruce they never will be. 

I can't say they won't be right and that next year won't be a better season. When healthy, the Skins were looking like a legit playoff team. They had the Saints beat in New Orleans and blew it. They could've beaten KC in KC and they did beat the Rams on the road. We lost to the Eagles on opening day in a close game and showed glimpses of being a very physical team that was a tough matchup for some of the better teams. Add a healthy Reed, Allen, Thompson, and others, upgrade at running back and mix in some key draft picks with the free agents signed and you never know. A lot of this is gonna come down to how well Alex Smith plays and how quickly he and Gruden get on the same page. JG seems excited to have Smith and seems to think he can expand the offense....hard to write them off in March when we haven't even seen the full roster yet. I think we have some competitive guys on both sides of the ball and that this team can be a factor next year. It's not like the rest of the league is all that good....including the Eagles.