Will Cousins Play For The Skins In 2018

[zCommander]

38 minutes ago, jschuck12001 said:

So Kirks having a town hall?  Will Anderson Cooper be there?

 

Yes and Colt McCoy is his opponent. 

[SkinsFTW]

7 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

I think Kirk wanted to play on the tag again (apparently even God told him so). Remember, it was Kirk's side that didn't even come to the table. The Redskins made an offer. It wasn't as much as Kirk wanted but that's how negotiations work. One side starts low, the other starts high, and then they go back and forth.

 

Would you want to sign a long term contract with a team that hadn't won in 2 decades under this owner, and almost a decade under Allen, after they fired the only real NFL GM we've had this century, who had the team improving??? They had offered him a guaranteed 24 Million for a single year but wanted to lowball on long term on top of this garbage, do you think that you'd bet your entire life on this Snyder/Allen fiasco and also accept a lowball???

 

I know that I wouldn't. Even as a Redskins fan I wouldn't want to play under those morons.

 

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

Would you want to sign a long term contract with a team that hadn't won in 2 decades under this owner, and almost a decade under Allen, after they fired the only real NFL GM we've had this century, who had the team improving??? They had offered him a guaranteed 24 Million for a single year but wanted to lowball on long term on top of this garbage, do you think that you'd bet your entire life on this Snyder/Allen fiasco and also accept a lowball???

 

I know that I wouldn't. Even as a Redskins fan I wouldn't want to play under those morons.

 

 

So you're basically backing up my argument. Which his that Kirk never had any intentions of signing a LTD here. Any stuff about not even coming to the table because of feeling "insulted" or "disrespected" because of a low initial offer (aka "business") is nothing but noise.

[SkinsFTW]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

So you're basically backing up my argument. Which his that Kirk never had any intentions of signing a LTD here. Any stuff about not even coming to the table because of feeling "insulted" or "disrespected" because of a low initial offer (aka "business") is nothing but noise.

Next thing we'll have college QB's refusing to show up if we draft them.

 

Then maybe the light bulb will click on for some.

 

Who can blame them?

[Skinsinparadise]

The article from last year below.  The point in that article relating to Bruce is so consistent from so many people covering the story who at least claim to be talking to both sides.  I don't think Kirk is a BSer.  Just like Kirk said yesterday, he means what he says.   So when he's given multiple comments about wanting to come back, I think he meant every word.

 

The only reason why I think the Kirk wanting to be here gets complicated and has mixed meaning is that he also meant it when he said he wanted to see how the front office played out.  Decisions are rarely cut and dry where its 100% great with no downside.  The Redskins have a clear downside. We've covered the downside on this thread and other threads.  If its obvious to us, I am sure its obvious to him.   And that downside will manifest IMO if Bruce starts the off season again with an insulting low ball offer.  But if a decent offer is on the table, I think Kirk stays a Redskin.  I just don't think that offer comes.  Will see.  Maybe Bruce-Dan will storm into the January 5th Kirk event, give him a hug and hand him one of those big checks that you see at government type events to celebrate their offer. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2017/03/08/redskins-gm-scot-mccloughan-has-no-role-in-current-free-agency-decision-making/?utm_term=.adaa18530ea7

The handling of Cousins and his contract also represented an area of disagreement. McCloughan had told people around the league that if he had full control, the Redskins would have signed the quarterback to a multiyear contract in 2016, avoiding the use of two straight franchise tags with long-term resolution. That angered Allen, who in turn started blaming his general manager in league circles for all of the negative media leaks about Cousins. Allen publicly has taken an “all in” approach on the quarterback. But sources say he is still hesitant to give the quarterback a lucrative multiyear deal.

[NoCalMike]

Even saying Kirk wants a "market deal" leaves room for negotiations since there is no magic number that means "market deal."  For example if say he is offered more money by the Browns and he takes it, it doesn't mean he wasn't offered a "market deal" by the Redskins, it simply means he went to the highest bidder.  That is his prerogative.

 

As far as "why would he want to stay here?"  Well, there is something to be said about consistency, playing in the same offense, learning it inside & out, getting the nuances perfect, gaining more responsibility at the line of scrimmage, etc etc.....assuming Jay Gruden stays, it means Cousins would be remaining in an offense he has excelled in for the most part, even with a turnstile of skill position players around him.  

[RemoveSnyder]

37 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Even saying Kirk wants a "market deal" leaves room for negotiations since there is no magic number that means "market deal." 

 

The numbers are known. 

[KDawg]

Maybe it was me... but did anyone else notice that when the offense sputtered Kirk was visibly pissed on the sidelines... and even when he team was up big when he threw that one TD pass he visibly sighed with relief?

 

looked to me like a guy that was worried about his contract. 

 

Not saying thats a good or bad thing. Just a minor observation.

[NoCalMike]

11 minutes ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

 

The numbers are known. 

 

The range is known.  All I meant is that within the range that is known, another organization could offer more, or even go above the range that the general consensus is.

[purbeast]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Maybe it was me... but did anyone else notice that when the offense sputtered Kirk was visibly pissed on the sidelines... and even when he team was up big when he threw that one TD pass he visibly sighed with relief?

 

looked to me like a guy that was worried about his contract. 

 

Not saying thats a good or bad thing. Just a minor observation.

I like that he was getting fired up over poor performances, it shows you care and know you can do better and want to do better.  A lot of people hate on Tom Brady for getting chippy on the sidelines but I love that fire he has.  It's something I can't ever recall seeing from the Redskins in the past 20 years.

 

I get pissed when during our 4-12 and 3-13 seasons you see guys on the sidelines smiling and joking around while they are losing by 20 points in the 2nd quarter.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Maybe it was me... but did anyone else notice that when the offense sputtered Kirk was visibly pissed on the sidelines... and even when he team was up big when he threw that one TD pass he visibly sighed with relief?

 

looked to me like a guy that was worried about his contract. 

 

Not saying thats a good or bad thing. Just a minor observation.

 

I mean, he did experience that Saints game a little over a month ago, along with several others over the years.  I'd venture a guess that he probably never, ever feels like a game is out of hand or over. 

 

I don't think anything that's happened over this last half of the season, good or bad, is going to have much if any impact on what his next contract is going to look like.

[Paul Cumberland]

44 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Maybe it was me... but did anyone else notice that when the offense sputtered Kirk was visibly pissed on the sidelines... and even when he team was up big when he threw that one TD pass he visibly sighed with relief?

 

looked to me like a guy that was worried about his contract. 

 

Not saying thats a good or bad thing. Just a minor observation.

 

I'm not thinking his relief had anything to do with his contract.

 

From what I recall, he was pissed on the sideline after he threw the INT in the EZ.  His relief was cause he remembered even being up by 15 with 4+ mins to play against NO, it may not be enough...

 

As for the INT, Mark Bullock showed a couple clips where perhaps Kirk remembered he had done a similar thing in the past where usually he learns from his mistakes.  Just conjecture on my part though.

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just caught up with a Mike Jones' segment who in my view has been the most accurate and plugged in among the reporters last off season in terms of how things ultimately unfolded and what Kirk ultimately said when he finally talked about the contract.

 

Jones said Kirk likes the Redskins/Jay but doesn't trust Bruce Allen. He doesn't appreciate how Allen has handled things.  He wants to be valued and respected but he doesn't feel that with Allen to say the least.  

 

Then he goes into there are people in that building who don't like Bruce. The other owners (aside from Dan)  aren't enamored with Bruce.  He implied if Bruce Allen is gone that might be a game changer with Kirk in a good way.

 

Trent

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/trent-williams-has-only-considered-one-outcome-to-the-kirk-cousins-saga/2017/12/28/7a46efe8-ebeb-11e7-b698-91d4e35920a3_story.html?utm_term=.50e8a1435869

While many believe the Washington Redskins will have a new starting quarterback next season, the man typically responsible for keeping Kirk Cousins upright hasn’t even considered a future without him.

Veteran left tackle Trent Williams believes Cousins not only provides the team with much-needed consistency at the position, but he also possesses highly-sought after talent and leadership skills. So, after spending the past three seasons protecting Cousins’s blindside, Williams fully expects to do so again in 2018.

“You see a guy playing well, you see a guy who you think is a great player and you just assume he would be back. You would assume that they would keep him,” Williams, the Redskins’ six-time Pro Bowl left tackle, said in a recent interview. “Because you don’t see good quarterbacks walking the streets very often. You don’t see, really, any outstanding Pro Bowl-type players just walking the street in their prime. That just doesn’t happen. In the NBA, yeah. But in the NFL? Not so much.”

[SkinsFTW]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

looked to me like a guy that was worried about his contract. 

 

Not saying thats a good or bad thing. Just a minor observation.

 

Just another reason that NO OTHER NFL TEAM leaves their franchise QB dangling there for 2-3 years. One of like 100 of them.

 

Even if it's not true, it might appear to be true to us and other players, coaches, etc.

[kingdaddy]

On December 24, 2017 at 4:46 PM, NoCalMike said:

 

A Rich Gannon-esque ending?

Who's to say Colt McCoy can't be our version of Case Keenum? McCoy has done nothing in his time with the Redskins to show that he doesn't deserve an opportunity to show what he can do. He was a high draft pick who went to Cleveland and was given nothing to work with, including coaching. He has now been under Gruden for several years and is a competitor. I'm in the camp of not overpaying to keep KC, draft a QB in the first round and go with Colt until the college kid is ready. Build up other positions with the money we save and draft a running back in the 3rd or 4th round....Sign more defense in free agency and keep building depth....One thing we think we can say is that 2017 was a great draft, including undrafted rookies we picked up. Gruden gets one more year to turn the corner which means winning at least 4 games in the division and making the playoffs. Anything short of that and he goes too.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Now that's one option I haven't seen brought up in a while, even by the anti-est of anti-Kirks....build up the D and go with Colt.

 

[Tsailand]

If the plan really is to try to win with Colt, as opposed to tanking for a high 2019 draft pick with Colt, the first step needs to be to get Colt signed to at least a three-year deal.  Otherwise we are repeating the same mistake we made with Kirk in 2015.

[Veryoldschool]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just caught up with a Mike Jones' segment who in my view has been the most accurate and plugged in among the reporters last off season in terms of how things ultimately unfolded and what Kirk ultimately said when he finally talked about the contract.

 

Jones said Kirk likes the Redskins/Jay but doesn't trust Bruce Allen. He doesn't appreciate how Allen has handled things.  He wants to be valued and respected but he doesn't feel that with Allen to say the least.  

 

Then he goes into there are people in that building who don't like Bruce. The other owners (aside from Dan)  aren't enamored with Bruce.  He implied if Bruce Allen is gone that might be a game changer with Kirk in a good way.

 

Trent

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/trent-williams-has-only-considered-one-outcome-to-the-kirk-cousins-saga/2017/12/28/7a46efe8-ebeb-11e7-b698-91d4e35920a3_story.html?utm_term=.50e8a1435869

While many believe the Washington Redskins will have a new starting quarterback next season, the man typically responsible for keeping Kirk Cousins upright hasn’t even considered a future without him.

Veteran left tackle Trent Williams believes Cousins not only provides the team with much-needed consistency at the position, but he also possesses highly-sought after talent and leadership skills. So, after spending the past three seasons protecting Cousins’s blindside, Williams fully expects to do so again in 2018.

“You see a guy playing well, you see a guy who you think is a great player and you just assume he would be back. You would assume that they would keep him,” Williams, the Redskins’ six-time Pro Bowl left tackle, said in a recent interview. “Because you don’t see good quarterbacks walking the streets very often. You don’t see, really, any outstanding Pro Bowl-type players just walking the street in their prime. That just doesn’t happen. In the NBA, yeah. But in the NFL? Not so much.”

 

Snyder is a special kind of stupid if he lets Cousins slip away.  If he doesn't want to give Cousins deal bigger than Stafford to keep him he's an idiot.  If he has let things gotten so bad that Cousins is willing to leave his coach and teammates to get away from Snyder than Snyder is a different kind of idiot.  In any case, losing Cousins is going to be Dan Snyders biggest failing as an owner, worse than the RGIII debacle, the Fat Albert deal and all the other stupid things combined.  Kirk Cousins is easily the most valuable Redskin player in 40+ years.  You could make a case that a handful of Redskin players were better at their positions than Kirk has been to date, but since the QB position is so much more important than all the other positions Kirk is easily the most valuable Redskin in over 40 years.

 

If Snyder fails to secure Cousin than I think Dan Snyder will never produce a championship.  Even if Snyder manages to secure Cousins the path to a Super Bowl win is narrow but fail to hang on to a 29-year-old top 5-10 QB who is also a solid guy and Snyder has no chance, he's too inept to win big.

[Est.1974]

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

looked to me like a guy that was worried about his contract. 

 

Not saying thats a good or bad thing. Just a minor observation.

 

I think Kirk knows his performances have been good, but not consistently high end good/great across the season. The divide of opinion on him hasn't shifted particularly this year so the whole situation is a still somewhat unconvincing to those not completely sold on him.

 

its a complete case of as you were on standpoint.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

I think Kirk knows his performances have been good, but not consistently high end good/great across the season. The divide of opinion on him hasn't shifted particularly this year so the whole situation is a still somewhat unconvincing to those not completely sold on him.

 

its a complete case of as you were on standpoint.

 

If there is anything to the 980 polls than the Kirk detractors are a vocal minority.  Sheehan and Cooley debated the issue on air as to whether fans were that divided or was is that people who don't like Kirk or think he's the guy are determined to get their voice heard.  So they tested it.  About 2000 respondents -- which is a lot.  That's a bigger sample than the typical presidential poll.  Internet poll isn't as scientific but a sample that size I think is telling.

 

Kirk's approval rating:  90%

Giving a big contract to Kirk with $100 million guaranteed:  80%

35 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

If Snyder fails to secure Cousin than I think Dan Snyder will never produce a championship.  Even if Snyder manages to secure Cousins the path to a Super Bowl win is narrow but fail to hang on to a 29-year-old top 5-10 QB who is also a solid guy and Snyder has no chance, he's too inept to win big.

 

I sadly agree with this.  Please reel in Kirk at the event in January 5th!    Not only do I believe Kirk is the best shot at an accidental championship here but I think he actually pulls it off in spite of the dysfunctional FO.  

[HigSkin]

Good Cousins discussion on the weekly JP Finley, Tandler, Keim podcast.  They start talking about it on the 14:45 mark.  In a nutshell, Tandler thinks the market for Kirk has shrunk to desirable teams except maybe Jags who have cap space and that "winning culture" Cousins talks about.  He thinks they offer him a transition tag that he accepts for 2018.  Keim leans towards them having gone as far as they can and offers some reasonable contract or a tag/trade.  Finley thinks he gets franchised again.  None of them see any team offering $30 mil per year.  There was a general contract discussion of something around $78 mil over 3 years fully guaranteed. 

 

 

[bobandweave]

On 12/27/2017 at 7:37 AM, mistertim said:

All I'm saying is that I can see how they could take the fact that he played great almost all season EXCEPT in two consecutive must win pressure cooker playoff implication "win and in" games into account when thinking about contract negotiations, because that was already one of the questions about him...how he performed under pressure. If you wouldn't at least take the potential for that being an issue down the road into account before handing a guy potentially the biggest contract in the NFL and hanging a nice chunk of your salary cap on him then that's fine. I'm guessing most GMs and coaches would at least have it in the back of their mind.

 

 

Absolutely spot on. In fact the only guys I can remember saying anything remotely ignoring those games were the Shananahclan who takes credit for drafting him.

 

when the Ravens made Flacco prove he could win the important games everyone looked at them as smart businessmen. He got his contract after he put the second trophy in their case. When the Redskins do the same, wait and see before paying, that gets them ridiculed.

 

Truth is if a QB can’t win the big games (0-8 playing on weekdays, 0-1 in the playoffs after starting three seasons) then he shouldn’t be the highest payed player in the league, period. 

 

What sense does it make to pay someone you cant see winning big games that much money? If he doesn’t turn that around then the contract means you have destroyed your chance to win a championship and that’s what it’s all about. People can say that fans shouldn’t concern themselves about his contract but this is the Redskins we are discussing

 

The last time we paid out 100 million to a guy he played a season and a half and is the biggest free agent bust in our history. Not sure who’s worse? The first round draft pick in the 90s who never played a game or Fat Ass in terms of screwing up the team? 

 

In my last post here I outlined what teams are getting for those top paid QBs as in playoff results. You can’t look at that and think it’s meaningless. There are 32 organizations trying to build teams out there. We can see what works and what doesn’t. We can see only five playoff QBs out of the top 16 paid QBs across the league. That means there are 7 other QBs right now getting paid less then half of the QBs out there getting into the playoffs. 

 

I would have thought that in a sport that pays guys once they show they can play and produce that more playoff QBs were in the top half of salaries then bottom half but that thinking is wrong.

 

In a vacuum signing Kirk is the best thing to do. Meaning he’s still got a lot left in the tank and will play better then any other QB we could bring in to replace him this year. But this is not a vacuum situation. Once you put in what it will cost to keep him it changes everything to me

 

The team has 40 million this year in free cap space. If they give most of all that to Kirk say 32 million on the franchise tag then we are done in free agency. The remaining money has to pay the draft picks. 

 

No more Breeland, or Junior, or the awesome lber we got from Buffalo, and on and on and on with the 20 or so free agents this year. Putting all the money into Kirk and only on a single player doesn’t make sense and will be a bad plan. Unless the plan is to get compensatory picks finally this year? If that’s the plan I will be shocked

 

so I don’t think paying him to stay but giving a proper market valuation and not overpaying is absolutely prudent to this discussion 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Interesting, I was unaware that weekday games were more important than others. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Rick Snider now having a go

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/express/wp/2017/12/27/kirk-cousins-and-redskins-both-want-to-split-but-neither-wants-blame-for-the-breakup/?utm_term=.df89b6ad80fc

...It’s going to go badly. Expect a long, painful divorce with each side blaming the other come spring, when team president Bruce Allen botches another attempt to re-sign Cousins to a long-term deal under the faux threat of a third straight franchise tag.

 

...Allen wants a hometown discount, but Cousins spends the offseason in Georgia and Michigan. He only rents in Virginia.

 

...If he lets Cousins walk, Allen may have to deal with more declining crowds. If the biggest reason to keep Allen around after a horrid eight-year tenure is to negotiate a new stadium, it better be a smaller venue.

Broncos linebacker Von Miller said Sunday that “a lot of teams would kill to have a quarterback like [Cousins].” But a large number of Redskins fans never embraced Cousins, despite the fact that he’s only 65 yards away from a third straight 4,000-yard passing season. They’re soured by the mountains of money he commands and resent that he supplanted Robert Griffin III.

 

...Allen has bet against Cousins for three years. Now the Redskins are in a financial faceoff they can’t win. Allen will probably make another bogus offer that is nowhere close to fair.

 

Maybe Allen can work a tag-and-trade deal that could at least net a first-round pick.

Washington just beat two awful quarterbacks — Arizona’s Blaine Gabbert and Denver’s Brock Osweiler — in the past two weeks. The thought of the Redskins having to turn to a passer like Gabbert or Osweiler after starting 21 

QBs in the past 23 years is nauseating.

 

Still, the slow dance over the coming months will probably lead to Cousins and the Redskins finding new partners.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Interesting, I was unaware that weekday games were more important than others. 

 

Yeah and its not even correct.  

 

And as for cap space

49ers News 24/7‏ @49ersSportsTalk 19h19 hours ago

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Most projected #NFL cap space for 2018 offseason:

1) #49ers: $116M

2) #Browns: $111M

3) #Colts: $84M

4) #Jets: $76M

5) #Bucs: $64M

6) #Vikings: $58M

7) #Texans: $54M

8) #Redskins: $54M

9) #Titans: $52M

10) #Lions: $48M