Will Cousins Play For The Skins In 2018

[goskins10]

11 hours ago, beachboy757 said:

I get your point. I guess I feel some slight sympathy for Dan at times. He has to be one of the most hated if not THE most hated owner in football. We all know he has made some dumb ass decisions when it comes to the Redskins but the names he gets called and every small mistake being made out to be a huge **** up by him can be tough to see sometimes.

 

I would agree if they were mostly made up or gross exaggerations. However, name calling not withstanding, most of what he has been accused of is accurate. I was still thinking the same at you are until I was fortunate enough to meet with an ex-player from the Gibbs days and heard first hand how they are treated by Dan and how he runs things in general.

 

He does nothing for the ex-players without expecting something in return. For example, most teams have a dedicated suite for ex-players to watch games. However, Dan puts the players in suites with people he does business with, the expectation being the ex-player is the entertainment. Ever notice that guys like Art Monk, Darrell Green, Charles Mann and others that were the true leaders of the glory years do not attend Homecoming? It's because they are treated like employees and expected to entertain - singing autographs, mingling with business partners, etc. I am surprised he doesn't ask them to sell beer and popcorn in the stands.

 

And then there is the undeniable poor record since taking ownership of this team and the antagonistic relationship he has created between him and well just about everyone - fans, media, players, anyone else he deals with.

 

Sorry, just about everything he gets at this point is well deserved.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

I have never stop blaming Dan Snyder and if the Skins fail to sign Kirk I'm going to blame Snyder.  

 

Even though I lay a lot of the stupidity and mismanagement as to the contract at Bruce Allen...Allen is Dan's employee.  When I hear that the minority owners don't care for Bruce but Dan does its telling.  Like Cooley has said multiple times on his show -- there is one guy who can solve the Kirk thing at the drop of the hat if he wanted to and that is Dan.  So I am on board that this contract is ultimately on Dan. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Well. I said during the draft when there were rumors of trading Kirk to SF that the only scenario I’d be ok with if Kirk wasn’t our QB next season was if we traded him for their #2 (to take a defensive stud) and ended up then trading with NE for Garrappolo. 

 

Now Jimmy GQ is looking really good and I don’t see a scenario where we have either QB under center. Fantastic. 

 

[RemoveSnyder]

4 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

I believe signing Kirk to a long-term deal is, at this point, so blindingly obviously the right move even the worst perception of our FO could not **** it up.

 

 

 

Who's driving the bus?

[Taylor 36]

4 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

I would agree if they were mostly made up or gross exaggerations. However, name calling not withstanding, most of what he has been accused of is accurate. I was still thinking the same at you are until I was fortunate enough to meet with an ex-player from the Gibbs days and heard first hand how they are treated by Dan and how he runs things in general.

 

He does nothing for the ex-players without expecting something in return. For example, most teams have a dedicated suite for ex-players to watch games. However, Dan puts the players in suites with people he does business with, the expectation being the ex-player is the entertainment. Ever notice that guys like Art Monk, Darrell Green, Charles Mann and others that were the true leaders of the glory years do not attend Homecoming? It's because they are treated like employees and expected to entertain - singing autographs, mingling with business partners, etc. I am surprised he doesn't ask them to sell beer and popcorn in the stands.

 

And then there is the undeniable poor record since taking ownership of this team and the antagonistic relationship he has created between him and well just about everyone - fans, media, players, anyone else he deals with.

 

Sorry, just about everything he gets at this point is well deserved.

I get what you're saying, and I was one that used to give Snyder the benefit of the doubt.  However, I feel it is hypocritical of me and many fans in this Kirk situation to completely blame Dan because we have been screaming for years, almost his entire tenure, that he just sign the checks and let the football people do their thing.  That is essentially what he is doing (believe me, I know that calling Bruce Allen a football person is weak, but he was hired to be one and was supposed to be the buffer between Dan and the football side of things since he was hired). 

 

Now, many of us want him to do exactly what we've begged for him not to do, what we have given him mountains and mountains of **** for doing in the past, and stick his nose into the football side of things.  I want him to tell Bruce that Kirk WILL be here next year.  Hell, my dream scenario would be for him to get a LTD done with Cousins and fire Allen all in the same meeting.  But, then we would hear how we are getting the same ol' Dan Snyder who always interferes blah, blah, blah, and it would even come from some of the folks that are currently begging for him to get involved.  It really is a no-win situation for Dan.

 

I understand that he hired Bruce, so he is not without fault in this situation, nor am I trying to exonerate him.  I think the best course of action here for both the team and for Dan would be for him to hire a real GM immediately, give that person full control and final say over personnel, tell them that Cousins is the first priority, and then step aside and let the GM do his thing.  Any competent GM would get a LTD done rather quickly, and Dan could stay out of it and let the football people do their thing.  Of course, there is the matter of hiring a competent GM, but that is for a different thread.

[SkinsFTW]

23 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

 Of course, there is the matter of hiring a competent GM, but that is for a different thread.

 

It is not a coincidence that the one actual GM we've had was tarred/feathered then fired and replaced by NOBODY. That was a Dan Snyder decision. Ironically the only reason they could do that, and won't find one this year, is because of the one player they aren't excited about paying.

 

We'll likely be the new BROWNS once this is all in the past because none of us are really capable of fathoming the idiotic **** these morons are thinking about.

[goskins10]

31 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

I get what you're saying, and I was one that used to give Snyder the benefit of the doubt.  However, I feel it is hypocritical of me and many fans in this Kirk situation to completely blame Dan because we have been screaming for years, almost his entire tenure, that he just sign the checks and let the football people do their thing.  That is essentially what he is doing (believe me, I know that calling Bruce Allen a football person is weak, but he was hired to be one and was supposed to be the buffer between Dan and the football side of things since he was hired). 

 

Now, many of us want him to do exactly what we've begged for him not to do, what we have given him mountains and mountains of **** for doing in the past, and stick his nose into the football side of things.  I want him to tell Bruce that Kirk WILL be here next year.  Hell, my dream scenario would be for him to get a LTD done with Cousins and fire Allen all in the same meeting.  But, then we would hear how we are getting the same ol' Dan Snyder who always interferes blah, blah, blah, and it would even come from some of the folks that are currently begging for him to get involved.  It really is a no-win situation for Dan.

 

I understand that he hired Bruce, so he is not without fault in this situation, nor am I trying to exonerate him.  I think the best course of action here for both the team and for Dan would be for him to hire a real GM immediately, give that person full control and final say over personnel, tell them that Cousins is the first priority, and then step aside and let the GM do his thing.  Any competent GM would get a LTD done rather quickly, and Dan could stay out of it and let the football people do their thing.  Of course, there is the matter of hiring a competent GM, but that is for a different thread.

 

 

That's all probably fair. Except as a fan I get to be as hypocritical as I want :-) 

 

In all seriousness, I get your point and I am not assigning all Kirk's contract on Dan. I was actually addressing the general Dan sucks theme, which is well deserved.

 

Ult8mately no owner is 100% hands off. In the biggest of situations they are involved. There are times when the owner should step in. No matter "hands off" an owner is, the buck stops with them, period. They have final say. It is because of that I believe that either BA has convinced Dan that Kirk is not worth it or Dan already felt that way. There is no way that if he felt 100% certain Kirk was the QB for this team would he sit and let this idiocy continue. However Dan is letting BA take the public fall for it - and probably rightfully so.

 

I just wish as my dad used to say - **** or get off the pot!!  Stoop this dangling and drama. Sign him or move on. I prefer they sign him to  LTD but another tag would be beyond stupid, of course unless Kirk forces their hand. And he may, especially if Bruce wants to start with another lame offer like last years feeble attempt. Next 2 months or so will tell a lot about this franchise and it's direction.

 

 

[Taylor 36]

12 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

It is not a coincidence that the one actual GM we've had was tarred/feathered then fired and replaced by NOBODY. That was a Dan Snyder decision. Ironically the only reason they could do that, and won't find one this year, is because of the one player they aren't excited about paying.

 

We'll likely be the new BROWNS once this is all in the past because none of us are really capable of fathoming the idiotic **** these morons are thinking about.

Was that Snyder's decision?  From what I've heard and read, it appears to be a Bruce Allen decision.  Even GMSM has not said anything disparagingly about Snyder, only Allen. God only knows what Allen went to Snyder with about Scot.  Again, I'm not trying to absolve Dan for his poor decisions and awful mistakes, but if he is staying out of it like we've asked him to do and the guy he hired to be team president, the guy who hired Scot to begin with, came to him with evidence that Scot was not fulfilling his duties, ie not returning phone calls, drinking on the job, etc., it would be expected for Snyder or any business owner/CEO to pull the trigger.  There are still a lot of unknowns in the Scot fiasco, so I don't know that I can just throw it all on Dan at this point.

 

I don't want to hijack this thread discussing FO matters; there are already threads on the first page discussing that, so apologize if these posts are not appropriate for this thread.

[Spearfeather]

8 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

. Next 2 months or so will tell a lot about this franchise and it's direction.

 

 

Indeed it will. I don't think Allen survives Kirk leaving and you would think Allen has to at least suspect that.

[SkinsFTW]

 

10 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

Was that Snyder's decision?  From what I've heard and read, it appears to be a Bruce Allen decision.  Even GMSM has not said anything disparagingly about Snyder, only Allen. God only knows what Allen went to Snyder with about Scot. 

 

Come on buddy.

 

If you can't smell Snyder manure by now I don't know what to tell you.

[Tsailand]

54 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

we have been screaming for years, almost his entire tenure, that he just sign the checks and let the football people do their thing.  That is essentially what he is doing

 

Why do you think that's what he's doing?

 

After 2014, Gruden's first year, Dan wanted to fire him, was on the phone yelling at the agent that he was being ripped off.  Bruce managed to persuade him to give Jay another year.

 

Early spring 2015, Jay said there would be an QB competition in camp.  Few days later, the word from the team was that RG3 was still the starter.  And we picked up RG3's 5th year option.  Then in camp Jay wanted to make Kirk the starter, but Snyder wouldn't let him.  Finally Scott managed to persuade Snyder to allow Kirk to start.  Scott wanted to lock Kirk up then, August 2015, but Bruce wouldn't let him. You are clueless if you think that decision didn't come from Snyder.

 

I know you're going to say, "Great! Snyder is mostly letting the football people do their thing!".  No, he is not.  He is still running the team.  Usually the adults (counting Bruce here even though he's a buffoon) manage to persuade him to do the right thing.  That's still a ****show.

 

 

[Spearfeather]

I think McCloughan leaving had little to do with Snyder

[wit33]

Giving everyone another year I predict will be the narrative, along with FO, coach and QB stating how victimized the Skins were with injuries this past year (poor us).

 

Hope someday excuse making leaves this organization, just can’t get with that as a fan. 

 

 

[Tsailand]

Just now, Spearfeather said:

I think McCloughan leagving had little to do with Snyder

 

I think Bruce wanted to dump Scott and persuaded Snyder to let him do it.  That firing can't happen without Snyder's blessing.  That's the problem with Snyder -- he usually makes the wrong decision on anything related to football.

 

Including the ****ing turf.  He can't even get that right.

 

 

1 minute ago, wit33 said:

the narrative, along with FO, coach and QB how victimized the Skins were with injuries this past year

 

Of course.  It's not a strength and conditioning thing.  Nothing to do with playing on the worst surface in the NFL for half the season.  Just bad luck.  Out of our control.

[markmills67]

For once I want Snyder to make a decision, and sign cousin's to a LTD. If Allen disagrees then goodbye. 

 

HTTR 

[Skinsinparadise]

Another on point article I believe

 

“That means a great deal to me . . . and that’s really where our focus is, to get to 8-8,” Cousins said. “It’s not 13-3, but it’s not a losing season. It isn’t 7-9.

 

“I want this brand, this organization to be associated with winning. When people around the league and our fans that support this league think about our organization, I want them to think of winners.

 

“That’s where our focus is right now, to get to another non-losing season, say we’ve strung three together and we can build on that with some of the talent we have that’s been on IR (injured reserve).“

Why worry about the “brand”, which benefits team owner Dan Snyder more than the players, and why talk about building on the past three seasons (9-7, 8-7-1 and maybe 8-8) with players coming back from injuries if you’re not planning to come back for 2018?

 

But before anyone puts Cousins in burgundy and gold for 2018, Cousins also was asked if he’d thought about the possibility that he has played his last home game in FedEx Field.

 

“It crosses your mind,” he said. “Certainly your mind does wander . . . there will be plenty of time to discern all of those questions come the off-season.”

 

Translation: Are the Redskins going to offer a long-term deal based on the market or based on the “Redskins’ market?”

 

...Many teams in the NFL look at Cousins and say they see the complete package. The Redskins see him every week, and can’t quite come to the same conclusion.

 

This much is certain. A team can do a lot worse at quarterback than Cousins. If the Redskins don’t grasp that, someone else will be ready to sign Cousins and then we will see who is right and who is in the playoffs.

[Spearfeather]

8 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

 

Nothing to do with playing on the worst surface in the NFL for half the season. 

 

Not according to the players. Not the best, but not the worst.

[Taylor 36]

8 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

 

Come on buddy.

 

If you can't smell Snyder manure by now I don't know what to tell you.

 

6 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

Why do you think that's what he's doing?

 

After 2014, Gruden's first year, Dan wanted to fire him, was on the phone yelling at the agent that he was being ripped off.  Bruce managed to persuade him to give Jay another year.

 

Early spring 2015, Jay said there would be an QB competition in camp.  Few days later, the word from the team was that RG3 was still the starter.  And we picked up RG3's 5th year option.  Then in camp Jay wanted to make Kirk the starter, but Snyder wouldn't let him.  Finally Scott managed to persuade Snyder to allow Kirk to start.  Scott wanted to lock Kirk up then, August 2015, but Bruce wouldn't let him. You are clueless if you think that decision didn't come from Snyder.

 

I know you're going to say, "Great! Snyder is mostly letting the football people do their thing!".  No, he is not.  He is still running the team.  Usually the adults (counting Bruce here even though he's a buffoon) manage to persuade him to do the right thing.  That's still a ****show.

 

 

Again, I don't want to hijack this thread, so I am only going to respond in terms that it fits with Cousins since that is the subject of this thread. 

 

I get fans having issues with Snyder, but please point out anything in Snyder's history as the owner of this franchise that correlates with what is happening with Kirk.  Snyder's history shows that when he is making the decisions, he will throw money, no matter how much or how stupid, at any player, coach, etc.  He has no issues giving large LTD's.  Now, look at Bruce's history.  His history is basically  a road map of how this Cousin's situation has played out.  So, when it comes to the Cousins deal, I have a hard time believing that Dan isn't allowing Bruce to do his thing, despite that Bruce's thing may be completely idiotic. Maybe Snyder is too trusting because of Allen's name. I don't know.  But, I do know that this situation is not in anyway typical of Snyder's history with contracts and negotiations.  It is completely on par with Allen's though.

[wit33]

@Tsailand

 

Its a similar story each year about this or that and not having “that”.

 

When in all reality the Skins have had realistic opportunities to win most of the last 48 games and the result continues to be average. 

 

With that said, Kirk made some great strides in creating plays off schedule, climbing the pocket and taking situational shots down field (all things that are required for highly paid QB to do—In my eyes). 

 

Gruden showed some “in game” improvements with feeling the game out and not always sticking to what he was taught 30 years ago— feeling the momentum and coaching with confidence (general terms, I know). 

 

Id like to see the band together one more year. 

[SkinsFTW]

1 minute ago, Taylor 36 said:

I get fans having issues with Snyder, but please point out anything in Snyder's history as the owner of this franchise that correlates with what is happening with Kirk. 

 

[Taylor 36]

1 minute ago, SkinsFTW said:

Video Clip 

Dan would go to dinner and other social events with Lavar.  He and Portis were very good friends and did a lot of things together.  So, he went bowling with RGIII that correlates to him having a history similar to this situation with Kirk? That has nothing to do with the Kirk situation and what is going on with the LTD mess. You are ignoring Bruce's history with three different NFL teams that are all the same when it comes to contracts and spending.  It has always been the same.  I'm not sure if Bruce ever went bowling with any of the players, but, as is the case with this video, it is completely irrelevant with the Kirk situation.  If you are trying to insinuate that because he was buddies with RGIII he doesn't want Kirk, that is over the top.  Look at how things went with his buddy Lavar in the end.  Snyder has done some stupid things, but he is not stupid enough to not notice that there are other teams that want Kirk, that no one wants RGIII, and that this team has done much better with Kirk at the helm than we did with RGIII.  Bruce Allen on the other hand, I'm not sure any of those things matter to him or phase him.  It is all about Bruce's ego and the money.

[Tsailand]

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

“I want this brand, this organization to be associated with winning. When people around the league and our fans that support this league think about our organization, I want them to think of winners.

 

If Kirk wasn't such a humble guy, I'd be tempted to translate that as "I want my brand to be associated with winning. When people around the league and my fans think about me, I want them to think of a winner."

 

 

17 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

Snyder's history shows that when he is making the decisions, he will throw money, no matter how much or how stupid, at any player, coach, etc

 

If it's a guy he really wants.  From 2012 through 2015, he didn't want Kirk.  I expect he's still in the "Kirk is a legit QB, but only in the top 12-15 range. He doesn't deserve to be the highest paid ever" camp.

 

12 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

Danny boy and RG3 bowling

 

For a sec I felt sorry for RG3.  Then I remembered that he broke up his marriage after cheating on his wife with a slightly younger slightly hotter woman.

 

3 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

So, he went bowling with RGIII that correlates to him having a history similar to this situation with Kirk? 

 

He should go to Bible study with Kirk.

 

 

[Taylor 36]

2 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

He should go to Bible study with Kirk.

 

 

Now that would be a fun video to watch!  

[Skinsinparadise]

37 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

 

Again, I don't want to hijack this thread, so I am only going to respond in terms that it fits with Cousins since that is the subject of this thread. 

 

I get fans having issues with Snyder, but please point out anything in Snyder's history as the owner of this franchise that correlates with what is happening with Kirk.  Snyder's history shows that when he is making the decisions, he will throw money, no matter how much or how stupid, at any player, coach, etc.  He has no issues giving large LTD's.  Now, look at Bruce's history.  His history is basically  a road map of how this Cousin's situation has played out.  So, when it comes to the Cousins deal, I have a hard time believing that Dan isn't allowing Bruce to do his thing, despite that Bruce's thing may be completely idiotic. Maybe Snyder is too trusting because of Allen's name. I don't know.  But, I do know that this situation is not in anyway typical of Snyder's history with contracts and negotiations.  It is completely on par with Allen's though.

 

For me this is a good appraisal.   There has been some debate as to whose at fault.    Of the ones saying its all Snyder.  I agree from the stand point of Dan's the bottom line, he can fix it.  And even if you blame Bruce, Dan's hired the dude and supported him in that position. So Dan isn't held hostage by Bruce.  I think that's spot on 100%. I agree with that point if its made from this angle. 

 

But I don't agree with those who suggest that Bruce is just some toady carrying out Dan's orders.  As if it were up to Bruce, the deal might even get done but Dan's whispering to Bruce as to how to handle it.   There is a lot to me that gives the vibe that Dan is letting Bruce handle it his way or at a minimum accepting Bruce's counsel on it. 

 

I guess there is no way to know one way or another.  But listening to the numerous narratives from reporters talking to both sides -- Bruce seems to be the dude that Kirk and his agent don't care for specifically.  Ditto Scot and his people.  If Dan was the prime suspect of the crime so to speak -- you'd think Scot's people and Kirk's people would be wise to the idea of Dan's just pulling Bruce strings and I don't think Scot and Kirk are dense as to missing the boat as to reality. 

 

Mike Lombardi who worked with Bruce has pointed out how Bruce tries to fool agents as his modus operandi but the agents typically get the last laugh.  The only giving two full years of guarantees which seems to be the sticking point here -- is a Bruce trade mark.  All the noise about Kirk would prefer a FO not run by Bruce.  Kirk-and his agent not liking Bruce's dumb press release.  Them not liking how they have been treated by Bruce in the negotiation.  Albert Breer saying Bruce won't compromise much because its important for him to win the deal.  Scot's side leaking that Bruce put the brakes on giving Kirk an offer.  On and on and on.  

 

It is possible to have two villains not just one in a movie.  Blaming both doesn't absolve the other.   Just because Bruce is prime and center doesn't take Dan off the hook.  But yeah I see very little evidence that Bruce is primarily simply carrying out Dan's orders.  There are many forms of dysfunction under Dan.  One version of it is I think what we are seeing here:  hiring the wrong people to do a job and fostering a culture for that type of person to thrive. So yeah ultimately it's on Dan.

 

My point here isn't to belabor whose to blame.  But I find it interesting all this noise about Bruce because I do think if he's removed or put in a different position in the organization it might indeed help the negotiation.  I don't think Bruce is some accidental player in this contract -- I think he's the prime horse.    But its Dan's job to fix.  In a way, it feels even more pathetic as to Dan that he might be letting a guy under his thumb incompetently ruin the organization -- without him stepping in to stop the floodgates. 

[TSO]

32 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

Dan would go to dinner and other social events with Lavar.  He and Portis were very good friends and did a lot of things together.  So, he went bowling with RGIII that correlates to him having a history similar to this situation with Kirk? That has nothing to do with the Kirk situation and what is going on with the LTD mess. You are ignoring Bruce's history with three different NFL teams that are all the same when it comes to contracts and spending.  It has always been the same.  I'm not sure if Bruce ever went bowling with any of the players, but, as is the case with this video, it is completely irrelevant with the Kirk situation.  If you are trying to insinuate that because he was buddies with RGIII he doesn't want Kirk, that is over the top.  Look at how things went with his buddy Lavar in the end.  Snyder has done some stupid things, but he is not stupid enough to not notice that there are other teams that want Kirk, that no one wants RGIII, and that this team has done much better with Kirk at the helm than we did with RGIII.  Bruce Allen on the other hand, I'm not sure any of those things matter to him or phase him.  It is all about Bruce's ego and the money.

 

Think about this, brother, what you're saying here is actually a case against Snyder, not for him. 

 

Lavar and Portis? Both ended up being issues for their coaches. Both were insubordinate and corrupted the organizational hierarchy necessary for any success.

 

I wasn't surprised to read this recently: 

 

Quote

The book, titled Belichick and Brady, focuses on the two men most responsible for New England's rise to dominance. But tucked away in Michael Holley's account is this excerpt, in which tight end Christian Fauria tells the author why he was so "miserable" after transitioning from the Pats to the 'Skins.

 

"As soon as I got there, I knew: They don't get it. Their style was antiquated. Joe Gibbs would be in team meetings listening to Clinton Portis b— about wearing white shoes versus black shoes. I knew I was on borrowed time."

 

Fauria played just one year in D.C. before moving on to Carolina and then retiring. Holley didn't include where Fauria stood on the cleats debate.
 

As explained above, there are plenty of other, larger factors that have created the gap between the Patriots and the Redskins aside from meetings about shoe color. But stumbling upon inside stories such as this one is always an interesting exercise, as straightforward assessments from guys who've experienced life in various locker rooms aren't very common in pro football.

 http://www.nbcsports.com/washington/washington-redskins/ex-player-makes-quite-comparison-between-patriots-and-redskins-2016-book

 

We even got to hear Portis last month talk about he and Moss taking shots before the game and Zorn having a problem with that which created an issue in the locker room. He actually said that without batting an eyelid.  

 

Snyder enables this. RG3 was just another one in a pattern of this awful behavior. 

 

This is what occurs beneath the surface that we have no idea about until it comes out or blows up... yet, all along, we're trashing the staff, coaches and other players who are essentially stuck trying to overcome this bs while being constantly undermined. It seems like it's a small thing on the surface and on a micro level, too. But it's not at all. In each instance the consequences are disastrous and create factions/divisions within what is supposed to be an unified organization. Even if those divisions start small, they snowball into avalanches of ego where each side is trying to destroy the other - only to destroy any chances they had at success in the process.

 

This isn't even getting into Dan's hiring process (or lack thereof) that continuously leaves the organization in bad hands at an executive level and personnel-level, which is really the biggest problem there is and limits the ability for anyone to succeed there.