The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[RemoveSnyder]

1 hour ago, Makaveli said:

SI: An Examination of What Went Wrong in Washington

 

That was dubbed the "balls on the table" moment from McC's tenure. @thesubmittedone knows all about it. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Now that Dan doesn't have to argue with Shanny or Scot, etc -- wonder if he will be more open with I presume his active role?  I recall they weren't exactly hiding it when Dan was going to scout Malcolm Kelly, etc.   Wondering when the Mayfield rumors start heating up -- poster child player for Dan.   It sounded like Doug Williams had Bruce at hello when he said he didn't want the ultimate power/title.  That means Bruce/Dan have final say with no interference.

 

I get that we learned later that Scot didn't really have final say either.  He made recommendations.  But Scot had a strong personality which is probably what led him out the door.  Doug (not that I trust his expertise anyway) seems like a go along to get along guy.   Scott Campbell has a nebulous position with specific power that I can tell and he understands how to play the building politics.  And Kyle Smith I gather is just happy to have his promotion for now let alone ruffle feathers to get his way.  So its the perfect storm for Dan to play with his favorite toy without having to deal with annoying strong personality types telling him he's wrong.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/daniel-snyder-washington-redskins-owner-still-struggles-to-find-formula-for-success/2014/01/04/5d86bfa4-74a4-11e3-bc6b-712d770c3715_story.html?utm_term=.0167dd4cbcd2

Prior to Shanahan, Snyder played a much more active role in the draft process, even traveling at times with his personnel officials to scout college players. In 2007, he had his heart set on drafting quarterback Brady Quinn out of Notre Dame. “It took a week or so to convince him that we shouldn’t do that,” one former staffer said. “Then he wanted Teddy Ginn,” an Ohio State wide receiver. Quinn has played for five teams in seven seasons, while Ginn has started just five games in the past four years.

The next season, still in need of a wide receiver, the team targeted Oklahoma’s Malcolm Kelly in the second round, though the medical staff had major health concerns. When they took Michigan State wideout Devin Thomas 34th overall before nabbing Kelly 17 picks later, they passed on Jordy Nelson, whom several others in the football operation preferred, according to someone who was with the team at the time. Hobbled by knee problems for two seasons, Kelly was released in 2011 after posting just 28 receptions. In six seasons with the Green Bay Packers since going 36th overall in the draft, Nelson has 302 catches for 4,590 yards and 36 touchdowns. This season, Nelson had career highs with 85 receptions for 1,314 yards.

“It’s hard to say that anyone can restrain him when he wants to do something,” said one former Snyder employee, who’d worked at Snyder Communications, of the Redskins owner. “You cannot stop impulsive people from doing what they want to do.”

 

...While Shanahan thanked the owner in his farewell news conference last week, those close to the situation said the coaching staff felt there were times Snyder’s interest in bringing in high-profile players, and the marketing value they bring, impacted the product Shanahan was able to put on the field. The biggest example was the acquisition of quarterback Donovan McNabb in 2010.

[skinzplay]

If Gruden goes, then Allen absolutely needs to go. This was his call. He wanted Gruden, someone who was not ready to be an NFL HC, and who has not yet demonstrated enough growth in the position to handle those responsibilities. He also played a hand in that dreadful decision to bring Joe Barry in as DC, though I'm sure he has whispered otherwise to Snyder; he has a knack for imparting revisionist histories to the owner, histories that mask his shortcomings and mistakes, and project blame onto others.

 

Snyder should clean house and bring in a competent President/GM to hire a HC and help that man continue building the kind of team that McCloughan had begun to build. There is no way to partition leadership responsibilities and give Allen exclusive charge over, say, business operations. As long as he is in the building, he is poison to football operations. Period. Get him outta Ashburn.

[sebestian]

I know we are not supposed to quote big posts.  

 

Wgat skinsinparadise just just posted leads me to believe that we as fans are doomed.  This situation will never change.  If Snyder is in charge it will never ever change. 

 

 I took the staffers a week to convince Snyder not to draft B. Quinn. Oh my God please tell me this is not possible. 

 

Please, us Skins fans didn't do anything wrong.  

 

We are such a laughing stock. 

 

I can never cheer for another team, therefore the forecast calls for a lot of pain. 

 

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

21 hours ago, Birdlives said:

 

Snyder has never cleaned house in the time he’s been here. It’s always piecemeal. Quite frankly, Bruce should’ve been shown the door when they fired Shanahan. He as the GM, figurehead or not, was just as responsible for the salary cap debacle and us getting docked 36 mil. He’s very responsible for the tremendous dysfunction of the franchise today. They botched RGIII, they botched the uncapped year, Allen botched the McCloughan situation, and he’s on the verge of botching the Cousins situation.

Just to be clear, he's already botched the Cousins situation horribly. The best case scenario now is we can sign Cousins for a good deal more than we could have last offseason, or we trade him for a good deal less than we could have last offseason. When that is the best you can hope for, the situation is already botched.

 

Of course, "botched" implies a mistake, rather than a conscious decision to make the situation about Bruce's PR instead of a football decision.

[daveakl]

Bruce is here until the new stadium Is built. That's most likely not changing.

 

 

[Paul Cumberland]

Not that there aren't extenuating circumstances but....

 

 

[RemoveSnyder]

4 hours ago, daveakl said:

Bruce is here until the new stadium Is built. That's most likely not changing.

 

That's like asking the subprime mortgage lending industry to handle our organization's finances.

 

Bruce made money with real estate in Arizona, in the 80s, by leaving others holding the bag. He knows how to close on multi-million dollar homes in Tampa and greater LA for himself, with the help of Tara Shapiro of HÔM Sotheby’s International Realty firm. Even Bruce used a realty agency to close on his new LA mansion. 

 

That somehow qualifies him to run a real estate / stadium campaign for the Redskins. 

 

Usually it's the owner who glad hands everybody and greases the wheels, like a Jerry. But our owner is too shy, inept or chicken **** to do it himself, so he has Bruce do it for him.  

[XtremeFan55]

On 12/1/2017 at 8:50 AM, mike42 said:

 

To be fair, Shanahan was the General Manager from 2010-2013 and Scott was from 2015-2017. What occurred in those years is hard to blame or credit Bruce for any of it. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to blame Bruce for Scott's drinking problem or Snyder allowing Shanahan control of everything. Bruce has spend most of his time here more as a public spokesman/money manager role than an actual General Manager.

 

Shanahan didn't do too bad as a GM.  He drafted Cousins, Trent Williams and Ryan Kerrigan...three of our best players.  I have no idea what Bruce Allen is still here for because Eric Schaffer is considered the salary cap genius.  Let's cut to the chase and call Bruce, Vinny II, just another glorified BFF of Snyder with a title.  

 

In addition...we have NO ONE on the Redskins staff now that has the ability to create a plan and to find the right players and coaches to implement.  Doug Williams is a joke IMO.  

[XtremeFan55]

16 minutes ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

Usually it's the owner who glad hands everybody and greases the wheels, like a Jerry. But our owner is too shy, inept or chicken **** to do it himself, so he has Bruce do it for him.  

 

You hit the nail on the head.  Snyder needs a strong person around him that he can either control or doesn't feel threatened by making him more of a follower than a leader. Vinny...Gibbs...Bruce.   He definitely isn't out of the same mold of a Jerry Jones.

[Tsailand]

20 hours ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

That was dubbed the "balls on the table" moment from McC's tenure. @thesubmittedone knows all about it. 

 

 

No inside jokes.  Tell what you know.

[RemoveSnyder]

4 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

No inside jokes.  Tell what you know.

 

Nothing.

 

Just that that moment's authenticity was questioned here on ES. People debated.

Someone coined McC's efforts to convince Dan and Bruce as him putting his "balls on the table." 

 

I think it was a metaphor. But only the shadow knows ... 

[ThomasRoane]

8 hours ago, daveakl said:

Bruce is here until the new stadium Is built. That's most likely not changing.

 

 

 

Ha!  What new stadium?!?!  Until the product on the field justifies a stadium there's no amount of hand shaking and palm greasing Bruce can get away with that will influence any city/community to give Snyder what he wants. 

 

The only head I want to see roll is Bruce Allen's.  (I'd love to see Snyder sell but that's not going to happen. The emperor never perceives his nakedness)  Getting rid of his latest enabling lackey is about all we can ask for.  Whether he enabled Dan or misguided doesn't matter to me.  Bruce has not done enough to warrant keeping his job based on performance alone.  Much less how badly he treats people. 

 

As a long time Redskin's fan who has seen how a team is supposed to be run it is heart breaking to see us become the most dysfunctional team in the league.  Cleveland (with all their draft picks) seem like a better bet for the future than the Redskins do right now.  I fear we are about to descend below bedrock after this season.  Hope I'm wrong -- but I don't think so. 

[daveakl]

3 hours ago, XtremeFan55 said:

Shanahan didn't do too bad as a GM.  He drafted Cousins, Trent Williams and Ryan Kerrigan...three of our best players.

That shouldn't count for ****. Hitting on a top 10 pick should be the norm, not celebrated. Same with the 2nd and 3rd rounder. Hitting on your 4th and 5th gets you in the playoffs and keeps your job and your 6th and 7th wins you super bowls.  

[skins island connection]

1 hour ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

Ha!  What new stadium?!?!  Until the product on the field justifies a stadium there's no amount of hand shaking and palm greasing Bruce can get away with that will influence any city/community to give Snyder what he wants. 

 

The only head I want to see roll is Bruce Allen's.  (I'd love to see Snyder sell but that's not going to happen. The emperor never perceives his nakedness)  Getting rid of his latest enabling lackey is about all we can ask for.  Whether he enabled Dan or misguided doesn't matter to me.  Bruce has not done enough to warrant keeping his job based on performance alone.  Much less how badly he treats people. 

 

As a long time Redskin's fan who has seen how a team is supposed to be run it is heart breaking to see us become the most dysfunctional team in the league.  Cleveland (with all their draft picks) seem like a better bet for the future than the Redskins do right now.  I fear we are about to descend below bedrock after this season.  Hope I'm wrong -- but I don't think so. 

 

 Something tells me that Bruce will use something other than 'grease' to put on his hands to talk a stadium deal. He's been using it on Cousins for a few years now.

 Hint: its in the petroleum category...

[Louskins9193]

Right now I'd take Jerry Reese over Bruce Allen any day of the week, I feel like i've been in a dysfunctional marriage for the past 

20 years with this Redskins team. I want out but something keeps bringing back in , I'm so frustrated with this organization its

so unbearable at times. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Makaveli]

5 hours ago, XtremeFan55 said:

 

Shanahan didn't do too bad as a GM.  He drafted Cousins, Trent Williams and Ryan Kerrigan...three of our best players.

 

Shanahan has an eye for offensive talent, that much is apparent. But what would you rather have (Player, Pick Drafted):

 

Ryan Kerrigan, 16

Leonard Hankerson, 79

Roy Helu, 105

Dejon Gomes, 146

Niles Paul, 155

Aldrick Robinson, 178

Maurice Hurt, 217

Markus White, 224

 

or

 

Keeping the 10th pick and drafting JJ Watt. I appreciate the idea of accumulating picks, but it was not executed well. I'm beating a dead horse at this point, but we need someone with an eye for talent that can build a roster. Based off this past offseason I don't think that is going to happen.

[XtremeFan55]

2 hours ago, daveakl said:

That shouldn't count for ****. Hitting on a top 10 pick should be the norm, not celebrated. Same with the 2nd and 3rd rounder. Hitting on your 4th and 5th gets you in the playoffs and keeps your job and your 6th and 7th wins you super bowls.  

Cousins was a 4th rounder....and that running back that had a pretty good game last Thursday night playing for the Cowboys was a 6th rounder for the Redskins and picked by Shanahan.  Just saying.

[joeken24]

Lot of free agents next year. Lets see how Bruce manipulates next years UFAs. If he doesn't sign Zach Brown, it'll be a pretty good indicator for what to expect from this team moving forward. Wouldn't mind them re-signing Phil Taylor and Trent Murphy at the right price. Everybody else can walk if they're trying to get paid. I kinda like Foster and he says he wants to play a whole year under Manusky.  

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/washington-redskins/

 

We'll see.

[c slag]

On Friday, December 01, 2017 at 9:01 PM, skins island connection said:

 Maybe Redskin fans will get lucky and hear on the news about Bruce Allen having inappropriate conduct charges filed by a staff member.

 It appears to be going around...

Well there is this developing story about the money owed to Scott from the remainder of his contact and it appears that a lot of fingers are pointing at Bruce Allen about this situation 

[Bacon]

I've never seen so many crying emoji reactions on one page before. Fitting that it's in a thread about our front office. 

 

It all starts at the top. As long as Snyder's around, your expectations should be kept low. If you want to hold out hope regardless, the removal of Bruce Allen would be a nice (if hollow) consolation. It would show, however briefly, that he's not the most oblivious man on the planet. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

12 hours ago, Makaveli said:

 

Shanahan has an eye for offensive talent, that much is apparent. But what would you rather have (Player, Pick Drafted):

 

or

 

Keeping the 10th pick and drafting JJ Watt. I appreciate the idea of accumulating picks, but it was not executed well. I'm beating a dead horse at this point, but we need someone with an eye for talent that can build a roster. Based off this past offseason I don't think that is going to happen.

 

Revisionist history is too easy and it is totally unfair.   You can always find players the best personnel men in history passed on.  The fact remains most of the best players on this team were acquired by Shannahan.  .  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

A quick google search on Allen led me to his page on Redskins.com.  Of course there is going to be fluff there, but I still can't help but laugh:

 

Quote

 

“Bruce Allen is the personification of an NFL winner. Our fans know his heritage; we know his abilities. He is the right person to lead our club.” – Redskins owner Dan Snyder

 

Bruce Allen has come full circle. More than 30 years have passed since Allen resided in the Washington, D.C., region and was a ball boy for his father, George Allen, the late Hall of Fame head coach who led the “Over the Hill Gang” Washington Redskins to an NFC Championship in 1972 and an appearance in Super Bowl VII.

Allen joined the Redskins as the team’s Executive Vice President/General Manager on Dec. 17, 2009, after a decorated career spanning more three decades as a general manager and executive with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the Oakland Raiders and a successful run in the USFL with the Chicago Blitz and the Arizona Wranglers.

 

 

Because Dan totally knows how to identify winners.  Eesh.

[Reaper Skins]

If the Giants sign Scotty Mac as their new GM I'm going to seriously lose my ****

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

18 minutes ago, Reaper Skins said:

If the Giants sign Scotty Mac as their new GM I'm going to seriously lose my ****

 

In my dreams, that can't happen.  Because Scots grievance hearing will expose Bruce for the dolt he is, leading to embarrassment for Dan.  He'll then can Bruce and bring Scot back as the true GM of the organization and give him free reign to do as he wishes with the personnel side of the house.