The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[veteranskinsfan]

There is another u-tube video dated March 6, 2011 where Snyder is interviewed by Rachel Nichols of ESPN on the show E:60 and it is worth watching.

At one point Snyder says he was surprised that the NFL allowed him to buy the team because he was so young at the time- 34 years old.  The show

chronicles how he got started in business and how as some companies failed he kept borrowing money hoping that the next venture would succeed.

As the Skins continue to lose he probably likes the fact that the fans are upset with Allen and fails to realize the fans are upset with both of them.

[Skinsinparadise]

50 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

The talk about firing Bruce and Cal and potentially KOC can have dire consequences. I'm the king of the "Bruce isn't that bad" type statements. And this may be one of those. But I just think about two possible scenarios. People want to focus on the "we're close" stuff from Bruce but lets talk about it. 

 

 

The reason why I am the king of the Bruce has to go crowd is partly because while I don't love personnel moves under his reign it's not even the operative point.  Two key points to me that overshadow the personnel stuff are:

 

A.  The sleaze and incompetence that blatantly oozes out of the fO.  Instead of changing the sleaze culture we had with Dan-Vinny -- Bruce if anything doubled down on it and made it worse.  I know this thing bothers some people here and others disagree that it matters or if that is even the case.  But for me I don't like being part of the bad guy team -- and to me that's been one of the sad signatures that Bruce has put on this team and in turn has damaged this franchise way more than Vinny. 

 

B.  He is a walking symbol that Dan just doesn't care about hiring top personnel guys to run personnel.  No one is screaming around the league about hiring Bruce to run personnel.   Why not for a change hire a big personnel guy to run personnel?  Instead, Dan runs John Schneider out of the building (who already had a big rep then) for Vinny.  Let Shanny run personnel even though that was his weakness in Denver.  Then hires the dude to run personnel who the Raiders didn't even include in any personnel decisions and that was Bruce's heyday because Tampa didn't go that hot.

 

What is he going to do next?  It's been a running refrain with me that Dan supposedly just wants to have a good restaurant to serve good food but it escapes him that a great chef would matter on that front.  As long as he has some good waiters, a maitre d, etc, terrific.  As for the meals coming out of the kitchen, let his best buddy along with himself come up with the recipes and wing their way through it while being mystified why the food isn't as good as most restaurants.  

 

 

50 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

I think most of us would want scenario 1 (there is probably debate between 1a or 1b). But then the question becomes what happens next year. We fire Bruce, Cal and KOC and suddenly a new coach wants to win with "his guys". A part of this question becomes does firing Bruce mean firing Kyle Smith? and Doug Williams? Santos? And on the back of this will the coach cut the players who finished the season showcasing their talent. And even if they stay here (they are on reasonable deals), what confidence that they'll be used well in a new scheme? 

 

 

50 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

This isn't really a "we must keep Bruce" thing, but just like we originally got Bruce and Mike as a package and that package was split up when Mike left. I've got to say I wouldn't mind Cal or KOC staying here if/when Bruce is let go. 

 

I know your point here isn't about Shanny but I feel compelled to go on a tangent on it.   😁   Some reporters have alluded that they have heard that this Shanahans think very little of Bruce now.  Kyle himself alluded to it in his press conference before the game against us.  According to at least Chris Russell, Jon Gruden who used to dig Bruce now doesn't anymore.  My point is Bruce's reputation while was questioned in Tampa some still had some legs left when he started fresh here.  But it appears his reputation is at a low -- I think there is no doubt its worse than Cerrato was.  

 

I've seen enough in my view that no way I want Callahan to be the head coach here but I am not worried about that possibility.  I am not sure about O'Connell one way or another.  But I'd sacrifice O'Connell or name my favorite Redskins player even Derrius Guice or McLaurin to get Bruce out the door.  But that's me. 

[skins island connection]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The reason why I am the king of the Bruce has to go crowd is partly because while I don't love personnel moves under his reign it's not even the operative point.  Two key points to me that overshadow the personnel stuff are:

 

A.  The sleaze and incompetence that blatantly oozes out of the fO.  Instead of changing the sleaze culture we had with Dan-Vinny -- Bruce if anything doubled down on it and made it worse.  I know this thing bothers some people here and others disagree that it matters or if that is even the case.  But for me I don't like being part of the bad guy team -- and to me that's been one of the sad signatures that Bruce has put on this team and in turn has damaged this franchise way more than Vinny. 

 

B.  He is a walking symbol that Dan just doesn't care about hiring top personnel guys to run personnel.  No one is screaming around the league about hiring Bruce to run personnel.   Why not for a change hire a big personnel guy to run personnel?  Instead, Dan runs John Schneider out of the building (who already had a big rep then) for Vinny.  Let Shanny run personnel even though that was his weakness in Denver.  Then hires the dude to run personnel who the Raiders didn't even include in any personnel decisions and that was Bruce's heyday because Tampa didn't go that hot.

 

 You may be the 'King of Bruce has to go Crowd', but I am the emperor !  😛

 

 One thing you did sorta leave out was how Bruce ruined Oakland, went to Tampa and ruined the Bucs, then by some freak of nature managed to get hired by Snyder; for the most part it was a nostalgic hire, but it also killed 2 birds with one stone, by needing a GM.

 

This is the actual part that baffles me; how blind and/or manipulative can Snyder be to not see the trends of the teams he was with previously? Allen is well known for giving vet players { especially good ones who want more money } the cold shoulder and they end up leaving { sounds familiar, eh? } then said team goes from being a contender to a door mat.

 

I could give 2 rats whether Allen has the skills to possibly get a new stadium; IMO that should be irrelevant, because a perennial successful winning franchise team would be well worth it to any city to build a stadium for. Allen is only trying to do it the hard way, and it may look noble to Snyder, but reality is any city can clearly see the financial burden of bringing a crappy team to their area and he will not be able to seal the deal. It may be Allen's way of retaining his job by continuing to drag out the new stadium talk, just to show Snyder he's doing all he can.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[ntotoro]

That's bad when they're already jonin' on firing a guy who hasn't even interviewed yet, much less been hired... 🤣

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Reporters are all over the map on whether Bruce comes back.  R. Walker from the Athletic clearly is among the ones thinking he returns. 

 

 

[SkinsFTW]

8 hours ago, veteranskinsfan said:

As the Skins continue to lose he probably likes the fact that the fans are upset with Allen and fails to realize the fans are upset with both of them.

 

I don't know why anybody would be upset with Bumbling Bruce Allen.

 

He's obviously doing the job as expected by Doofus Dan Snyder or else he'd have been gone many years ago.

 

Hint: Winning isn't part of the job!

 

Clearly those of us who predicted on the day that he was hired that he was just going to be the new puppet were 100% correct.

 

That didn't even take major skills to figure out, but the fact that almost the entire fanbase still doesn't quite get it 10 years later, and are still scratching their heads trying to contemplate his continued employment, is ****ing hilarious.

 

[KDawg]

I have to say, and I mean this as respectfully as possible: if you don’t think Bruce Allen is a large problem (potentially not THE problem) with this franchise, I simply cannot take anything you have to say seriously enough to engage you in debate. 

[CjSuAvE22]

10 hours ago, KDawg said:

I have to say, and I mean this as respectfully as possible: if you don’t think Bruce Allen is a large problem (potentially not THE problem) with this franchise, I simply cannot take anything you have to say seriously enough to engage you in debate. 

Only 3 likes...i tried to get a fire bruce allen chant going at the jets game and maybe 4 people joined...

[Dissident2]

5 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Only 3 likes...i tried to get a fire bruce allen chant going at the jets game and maybe 4 people joined...

 

 

That's probably half of the Redskin fans that were actually there, so that's not so bad. 

[CjSuAvE22]

1 hour ago, Dissident2 said:

 

 

That's probably half of the Redskin fans that were actually there, so that's not so bad. 

Forgot that most everyone around me was a jets fan

[SkinsFTW]

Calling Bruce Allen the Redskins biggest problem is like blaming marriage problems on the side boyfriend/girlfriend.

 

He's basically irrelevant or at most a symptom of the actual buffoonery. He's not supposed to be there. The last one wasn't either. No other successful team would have anything to do with him. In fact none ever have in his current position. Same thing with Vinny. What a ****ing coincidence. Doofus Dan Snyder requires a partner in crime to help convince himself that his lunacy is sane yet he's paying them to agree with him.

 

What a maroon!

 

20 years of watching a total buffoon do moronic **** yet he still doesn't get it!

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

Calling Bruce Allen the Redskins biggest problem is like blaming marriage problems on the side boyfriend/girlfriend.

 

He's basically irrelevant or at most a symptom of the actual buffoonery. He's not supposed to be there. The last one wasn't either. No other successful team would have anything to do with him. In fact none ever have in his current position. Same thing with Vinny. What a ****ing coincidence. Doofus Dan Snyder requires a partner in crime to help convince himself that his lunacy is sane yet he's paying them to agree with him.

 

What a maroon!

 

20 years of watching a total buffoon do moronic **** yet he still doesn't get it!

 

 

We agree on Dan with the exception of I think he interferes sometimes, you think he does it all the time.  But the conclusion at least for me is the same.  We've duked out a little on Bruce.  😀

 

Looking at it your way, doesn't trashing Bruce in turn really put Dan on the spot though?  If Dan is that uncomfortable without Bruce then pulling away that cover is really the only move we got for now.   The impression left from those who hear a few things about Dan isn't that Dan is privately delighted that his BFF is pilloried by the fan base because it takes attention away from him.  He really really really supposedly doesn't want to lose Bruce.  

 

If Dan's ruse is to control Bruce at every turn and let him to take all the arrows for him then man has that plan gone south.  Because from what I can tell fans are double furious at Dan.  Very few really believe that Dan has changed or if he has it hasn't been much.  Yet they see Dan flaunting in fan's faces that he won't dump a GM who is blatantly unpopular. 

 

And if Bruce is that brilliant at playing bad cop to Dan's good cop behind the scenes and supposedly covering up Dan's involvement that adeptly where he even fools people in that building working there -- wouldn't we want that dude gone because the odds that Dan will find someone that good at covering his trail is pretty remote?

 

But yeah in sum Dan is clearly at an all time low with the fan base.  And even if you think the hits on Bruce are misguided (I respectfully disagree on that), he has done more to damage Dan's brand IMO than anything Dan has done on his own.  So if that was the best laid plan from Dan -- it really went south and keeps going south.

[KDawg]

13 hours ago, KDawg said:

 if you don’t think Bruce Allen is a large problem (potentially not THE problem) with this franchise

 

28 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

Calling Bruce Allen the Redskins biggest problem is like blaming marriage problems on the side boyfriend/girlfriend.

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Bruce Allen is and has been the biggest problem the Redskins have that can actually be moved.  I'm certain all of us know that Dan is the ultimate problem because he hires guys like Bruce Allen.  But I think we've all also have come to accept that Dan's not going anywhere and that our only possible hope is that he somehow lucks himself into hiring someone who knows what they are doing and can keep him at bay.  It's a lofty hope, but it's the only hope.  

[purbeast]

23 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

the thing about him being manipulated brings me back to something either he said or someone close to him (can't recall) that Vinny made him feel good, he was the ever optimist.  Sounds like Vinny did his own version with him of "we are close".  Dan is easily manipulated as anyone is typically when someone keeps telling him something he really really wants to believe.

 

Dan I gather wants to believe he's doing it right but bad luck has foiled him, the evil media turned the fans against him because otherwise they'd dig him, and the success is just around the corner.

 

Heck we've had phases on this very thread from some straggler defenders of Dan-Bruce and their arguments are often a variation of the same thing with a dose of the other thing that Dan liked to sell years back when he still would do the rare interview which is that he's learned and grew.  Those interviews haven't aged well they more or less come off like Dan congratulating himself for the franchise turning the corner (which they haven't) because now he's the mature and the bigger and better version of himself.

 

This is the last interview I can find of Dan.  It starts about Notre Dame but about 4 minutes in he talks Redskins, you can hear the we are close vibe in his talk. 

 

 

 

 

"We've got a terrific offensive line"

 

"We have a franchise quarterback with Kirk Cousins"

 

"We are not at all in the market for a quarterback"

 

"I think we have some great leadership in Jay Gruden and the coaching staff"

 

I mean ... this guy is 100% delusional and out of touch with reality.

[dicksogj]

17 minutes ago, purbeast said:

"We've got a terrific offensive line"

 

"We have a franchise quarterback with Kirk Cousins"

 

"We are not at all in the market for a quarterback"

 

"I think we have some great leadership in Jay Gruden and the coaching staff"

 

I mean ... this guy is 100% delusional and out of touch with reality.

 

Theismann is such a brown noser.  WTF is with that initial intro of Snyder?  Theismann did similar yesterday w/ the radio interview where apparently he is incapable of ever badmouthing Snyder & kind of made excuses for Snyder never giving interviews.

 

I truly appreciated Theismann's contributions when he played for the Skins but truly cannot stand the current version of him where he is a complete homer, always overvalues the team & sucks up to Snyder & co (maybe he has to since I guess they employ him at times).  Almost makes me want to vomit with the way he acts in these situations.

 

BTW - if Snyder was all-in on Cousins then why did they not lock him up long term? Does Allen somehow have power over Snyder, or did Cousins subsequently do something to piss of Snyder?

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 hour ago, SkinsFTW said:

Calling Bruce Allen the Redskins biggest problem is like blaming marriage problems on the side boyfriend/girlfriend.

 

He's basically irrelevant or at most a symptom of the actual buffoonery. He's not supposed to be there. The last one wasn't either. No other successful team would have anything to do with him. In fact none ever have in his current position. Same thing with Vinny. What a ****ing coincidence. Doofus Dan Snyder requires a partner in crime to help convince himself that his lunacy is sane yet he's paying them to agree with him.

 

What a maroon!

 

20 years of watching a total buffoon do moronic **** yet he still doesn't get it!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, Dan isn't selling anytime soon.  At least, he doesn't appear to be.

 

So all we can really hope is that he gets the hint, fires Bruce and Forrest Gumps his way into a good hire.  

 

I think a lot of people have resigned to the idea that Dan's here for the long haul and not selling.  I know I have.  

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

22 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The sleaze and incompetence that blatantly oozes out of the fO.  Instead of changing the sleaze culture we had with Dan-Vinny -- Bruce if anything doubled down on it and made it worse.  

That’s on the owner. Those guys are doing what they need to do to stay employed.

[Skinsinparadise]

30 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

That’s on the owner. Those guys are doing what they need to do to stay employed.

 

It's on the owner I agree, have said so many times.   It's an atmosphere ruled by fear and politics according to people who have worked there.   I don't think its an accident that the ultimate politician has ended up the King Kong survivor of the jungle there. 

 

I'll use some sarcasm and hyperbole to make my point but its not directed at you.  I think the easiest way for me to make my point is to do it loudly like that.   So here goes: I don't think Bruce and Vinny's personalities shifted like a chameleon to fit the owner.  And considering how Gretta Garbo Dan is as for public appearances, I do think how Bruce and Vinny present this organization helps set the image since they had the highest paid position in the FO and are the ones who speak for the team. 

 

Both Vinny and Bruce have presented different images that fit their personalities and their previous stints as opposed to Dan molding those personas.

 

Vinny -- splashy, bumbling, nice guy, out of touch

 

Bruce -- boring, bumbling but not as much as Vinny, political, nasty, arrogant

 

At least that's my vibe about both, I was a loud critic of Vinny, too.  But I think if anything Vinny enhanced Dan's reputation for bumbling but also took some edge off because he was a nice guy.  Bruce to me has doubled down on the edge-nastiness.  The dude was called the Prince of Darkness BEFORE he got here. 

 

I agree with your point about the culture is set from the top.  But to me Bruce has doubled down on it and made it even worse. 

 

 

[FrFan]

2 hours ago, dicksogj said:

 

Theismann is such a brown noser.  WTF is with that initial intro of Snyder?  Theismann did similar yesterday w/ the radio interview where apparently he is incapable of ever badmouthing Snyder & kind of made excuses for Snyder never giving interviews.

 

I truly appreciated Theismann's contributions when he played for the Skins but truly cannot stand the current version of him where he is a complete homer, always overvalues the team & sucks up to Snyder & co (maybe he has to since I guess they employ him at times).  Almost makes me want to vomit with the way he acts in these situations.

 

BTW - if Snyder was all-in on Cousins then why did they not lock him up long term? Does Allen somehow have power over Snyder, or did Cousins subsequently do something to piss of Snyder?

 

He's talking about him as future GM, that's why he's not going to bad mouth danny boy

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, FrFan said:

 

 

He's talking about him as future GM, that's why he's not going to bad mouth danny boy

 

I remember like yesterday when Theismann called into Sheehan's show to hit Sheehan for attacking Cerrato way back when Cerrato was still here.  Theismann making a case that Vinny has done a great job.  So I guess even Theismann has his limits.

[Renegade7]

3 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Bruce Allen is and has been the biggest problem the Redskins have that can actually be moved.  I'm certain all of us know that Dan is the ultimate problem because he hires guys like Bruce Allen.  But I think we've all also have come to accept that Dan's not going anywhere and that our only possible hope is that he somehow lucks himself into hiring someone who knows what they are doing and can keep him at bay.  It's a lofty hope, but it's the only hope.  

 

I havent.

[88Comrade2000]

On 11/26/2019 at 7:55 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

That's a great summary, sounds totally right.   He has to keep going down the same path until in his mind he proves people right.  

 

Bringing this to Bruce as an example.  Russell has said multiple times he hears that part of the reason why Dan doesn't want to let Bruce go is because it would be summed as a failure and it would malign the Allen family legacy some.  So if they end it, they want to do it on a high where there is some I told you so element to it.  Bruce quits and rides off to the sunset and isn't fired.  That's the picture Russell paints if he has it right as to Dan's dream for how it ends.

 

Allen to me is very interesting.  I've become over time less interested in arguing whether letting him go would bring change.  I am more interested in it now from a Dan angle.  How much distaste, fan unrest, mega declining attendance, TV ratings decline is the man willing to endure to back his man?  There seems to be almost no limit to it.  Among the crazy stuff Dan has done this might take the cake. 

 

I got no doubt that Dan keeping Bruce by a mile is the #1 PR issue for a team that as Peter King likes to say is bleeding fans.  To say that the low hanging fruit to help restore a little hope would be canning Bruce would be a massive understatement. Yet, nothing.  I am fascinated to see how much either Dan is willing to lose for his boy and or how good Bruce is at manipulating him into believe they are close. 

 

I don't totally agree with those who think dumping Bruce would amount to nothing.  I agree with the gist of the point which is Dan is the key dude spoiling the broth so that wouldn't change.  That's true.  But I genuinely believe that removing Dan's security blanket who seems to foster his worst instincts would help.  And yeah he can hire someone worse but I think that would be hard to do albeit I agree that it's not impossible.   

 

But to me the issue with Bruce is no longer so much about whether it will make a difference.  To me it's about what is Dan willing to lose to save his friendship and maintain the Allen name.  It seems like trending towards that he's willing to lose whatever it takes.  That's the wild thing for me. 

 

Then let Dan reap what he sows.

Bruce returns, I am going to actively root for this team to fail. I will want them to botch the coaching hire and draft picks.