The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[skins island connection]

Ah, a great opportunity missed.

Only had we known it was half pint's birthday, there could have been a set-up where a cake is wheeled out onto the field pre-game { or halftime }, maybe luring Snyder down to the field, then have a crack whore pop out of the cake with a sign saying " Sell The Team, Douchebag ".

I would have bought a ticket just to see the expression on his face on the jumbotron...

[Commander -JB-]

Imagine letting Cousins walk and then draft Daron Payne when Lamar Jackson was on the board because you wanted to trade for & sign Alex Smith to a huge guaranteed contract.

 

[88Comrade2000]

On 11/24/2019 at 12:57 PM, Makaveli said:

 

 

How is that explosive?  There's only 5 games left this season.

 

Snyder is the one who will ultimately decide in the offseason.

He will either pass the buck and let Bruce make the hire, like he did in 2014.

Or Dan himself, will hunt for Jay's replacement.

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

12 minutes ago, -JB- said:

Imagine letting Cousins walk and then draft Daron Payne when Lamar Jackson was on the board because you wanted to trade for & sign Alex Smith to a huge guaranteed contract.

Lamar Jackson would never develop here the way he has in Baltimore. That's a real organization up there.

[wit33]

4 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Lamar Jackson would never develop here the way he has in Baltimore. That's a real organization up there.

 
The Skins would have a slow pocket QB backing him up. 

[SkinsUltima]

25 minutes ago, -JB- said:

Imagine letting Cousins walk and then draft Daron Payne when Lamar Jackson was on the board because you wanted to trade for & sign Alex Smith to a huge guaranteed contract.

 

Hate when people say this. Lamar was extremely raw his first year in Baltimore. You think we seriously would've made a offense around him and actually develop him like the Ravens did? What kind of franchise do you take us for?

[zCommander]

48 minutes ago, -JB- said:

Imagine letting Cousins walk and then draft Daron Payne when Lamar Jackson was on the board because you wanted to trade for & sign Alex Smith to a huge guaranteed contract.

 

 

This would have never worked here. The commentators were saying how the Ravens designed everything around Lamar (it took them a year to get this in place).

 

If he was here then Gruden would have had him memorize his 900 page play book instead and then call RB plays for the first 2 downs instead. 

[Probos]

6 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Snyder is the one who will ultimately decide in the offseason.

He will either pass the buck and let Bruce make the hire, like he did in 2014.

Or Dan himself, will hunt for Jay's replacement.

 

 

And those two options are why I have almost zero faith.

[KDawg]

Hot take in that tweet by Burgundy Blog. There's tension on the Redskins? You don't say. Bill Callahan and Bruce Allen are close? Breaking development.

 

To be a little bit serious here, though, if it takes a hashtag to fire Bruce Allen this franchise is so far off the mark that I'm not sure anyone can save it. I'm already not sure of it, but if the organization is making its decisions based solely on how #firebruceallen is trending, the problem goes so far beyond Bruce Allen (we know that). 

 

Bruce being removed is a positive step, but if its Snyder and not an outside firm that makes the decision, it's not going to get any better.

 

My biggest fear is that Allen stays as GM and Callahan is retained as the head coach. And don't @ me and say "that won't happen". You know damn well it's not beyond this organization to do exactly that

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Hot take in that tweet by Burgundy Blog. There's tension on the Redskins? You don't say. Bill Callahan and Bruce Allen are close? Breaking development.

 

To be a little bit serious here, though, if it takes a hashtag to fire Bruce Allen this franchise is so far off the mark that I'm not sure anyone can save it. I'm already not sure of it, but if the organization is making its decisions based solely on how #firebruceallen is trending, the problem goes so far beyond Bruce Allen (we know that). 

 

Bruce being removed is a positive step, but if its Snyder and not an outside firm that makes the decision, it's not going to get any better.

 

My biggest fear is that Allen stays as GM and Callahan is retained as the head coach. And don't @ me and say "that won't happen". You know damn well it's not beyond this organization to do exactly that

 

Agree its sad that it would have to go that way.  But you got an owner who first relied on Vinny and now Bruce even more so like Linus with his blanket.    As Russell speculated when Dan fired Vinny he didn't just lose his lieutenant but also lost his best friend and he's not totally sure Dan would willing to lose a best friend twice.  Saying Vinny and Dan have never been close again.  So I sort of equate it to telling my kid to give up their BFF, they wouldn't do it willingly of course and they'd cry and kick and scream.  

 

So the whole house I gather might need to burn down from multiple places for it to happen and Bruce comes off so wily that I'd bet he can convince the fans aren't really that upset at him or they'd come around next season because they both know they are close.  Dan didn't you see how we beat the Lions?  Those type of grand wins don't happen if you aren't close!  

 

As for Callahan yeah I've heard now multiple times that if Bruce is left to his own devices that's likely the guy because its very important to him to have people that he's close with in high positions.   But if Dan gets panicked about attendance issues and declining TV ratings he'd overrule his buddy and try a sexy hire.  Maybe they'd compromise in the middle and hire O'Connell?  

[bakedtater1]

6 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Lamar Jackson would never develop here the way he has in Baltimore. That's a real organization up there.

Speaking of which...right smack dab next to the Patriots, the ravens are the greatest ran organization in the nfl...

[Llevron]

You have to wonder if Dan Snyder watches other football teams and if so what exactly he thinks when he sees them and then looks at his mess. He doesnt strike me as the typt to accept reality if he doesnt like what he sees. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

Speaking of which...right smack dab next to the Patriots, the ravens are the greatest ran organization in the nfl...

 

Agree.  Among other things they are good at both drafting and pro player personnel.  Their coach and GM seem to be on the same page.  Weird how they have had for years one of the most highly regarded personnel guy running personnel and shockingly they are really good at personnel? 

 

I think its amusing and sad reading all those articles-exposes over the years about how Dan supposedly wants to build a winner yet the method to doing it is eluding him.  I used to think Dan probably does get how to do it but is too stubborn and wants to win his way or he's not interested. 

 

My opinion hasn't changed much on that but I am somewhat convinced he's stupid, too.  I don't think he's stupid in the pure sense but just as for understanding football.  Because Dan hasn't tried everything.  He hasn't tried the most fundamental and basic way to win which is to hire a Newsome or Decosta type of personnel guy and get out of that person's way.  It's not complicated.  

 

Dan's like an obese dude who suffered multiple heart attacks but keeps telling his doctor he's wrong, its not about eating burgers and pizza everyday and packing on the pounds -- it has to be about something else and eventually he will figure it out. 

 

 

 

[justice98]

4 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

Speaking of which...right smack dab next to the Patriots, the ravens are the greatest ran organization in the nfl...

 

My wife is a big Ravens fan and I'm sitting there watching her react to her squad eviscerate people on a weekly basis.  Every couple of minutes, she's laughing and clapping.  Games make her happy instead of sad.  Must be nice to have a star and an organization that makes you proud every week.

2 minutes ago, Llevron said:

You have to wonder if Dan Snyder watches other football teams and if so what exactly he thinks when he sees them and then looks at his mess. He doesnt strike me as the typt to accept reality if he doesnt like what he sees. 

 

 

I'd pay money to sit with him during a game or when he's watching a good team. 

[Llevron]

3 minutes ago, justice98 said:

I'd pay money to sit with him during a game or when he's watching a good team. 

 

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I used to think Dan probably does get how to do it but is too stubborn and wants to win his way or he's not interested. 

 

My opinion hasn't changed much on that but I am somewhat convinced he's stupid, too. 

 

Yall ever watch the guy who thinks the world is flat, and thought up this relatively smart and simple way to prove if it is or not for himself because he doesnt trust anyone else on it? He ends up proving, through his own designed method, that the world is indeed round and that his method in determining it is not only correct but exactly right. Just, he gets the results he couldn't believe. Well, he doesnt. He assumes he made some fundamental mistake as starts all the way over, looking for a method to prove his hypothesis correct. 

 

The commentary is really something. And I think it relates the most to Dan. It basically says that people this determined or siloed or detached from reality end up building their personas and lives around the idea of who they think they are, not what is really happening. And because of that you are not just asking them to see the truth, but to give up everything they even understand about who they are. This guy for example has a group of friends that are all flat earth dorks. Those are his only friends because HE thinks he IS this flat earth guy and the other people who arnt must think hes an idiot (we do). And because of that, he cant give up the flat earth thing, because then whats left for him? No friends and hes still the flat earth dummy. 

 

I think something similar to that is happening with Danny boy. He is a loser and a jerk and he knows everyone knows it. His only way to not be that guy is to prove everyone wrong and win it his way. There cant be any other way because if there is, then who exactly has he been for the last 20 years? Some loser idiot like everyone says? No! Wont accept that! 

 

This is why we are ****ed until hes gives up or the good lord brings him home. 

 

I made myself sad 😕

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

 

I think something similar to that is happening with Danny boy. He is a loser and a jerk and he knows everyone knows it. His only way to not be that guy is to prove everyone wrong and win it his way. There cant be any other way because if there is, then who exactly has he been for the last 20 years? Some loser idiot like everyone says? No! Wont accept that! 

 

This is why we are ****ed until hes gives up or the good lord brings him home. 

 

I made myself sad 😕

 

That's a great summary, sounds totally right.   He has to keep going down the same path until in his mind he proves people right.  

 

Bringing this to Bruce as an example.  Russell has said multiple times he hears that part of the reason why Dan doesn't want to let Bruce go is because it would be summed as a failure and it would malign the Allen family legacy some.  So if they end it, they want to do it on a high where there is some I told you so element to it.  Bruce quits and rides off to the sunset and isn't fired.  That's the picture Russell paints if he has it right as to Dan's dream for how it ends.

 

Allen to me is very interesting.  I've become over time less interested in arguing whether letting him go would bring change.  I am more interested in it now from a Dan angle.  How much distaste, fan unrest, mega declining attendance, TV ratings decline is the man willing to endure to back his man?  There seems to be almost no limit to it.  Among the crazy stuff Dan has done this might take the cake. 

 

I got no doubt that Dan keeping Bruce by a mile is the #1 PR issue for a team that as Peter King likes to say is bleeding fans.  To say that the low hanging fruit to help restore a little hope would be canning Bruce would be a massive understatement. Yet, nothing.  I am fascinated to see how much either Dan is willing to lose for his boy and or how good Bruce is at manipulating him into believe they are close. 

 

I don't totally agree with those who think dumping Bruce would amount to nothing.  I agree with the gist of the point which is Dan is the key dude spoiling the broth so that wouldn't change.  That's true.  But I genuinely believe that removing Dan's security blanket who seems to foster his worst instincts would help.  And yeah he can hire someone worse but I think that would be hard to do albeit I agree that it's not impossible.   

 

But to me the issue with Bruce is no longer so much about whether it will make a difference.  To me it's about what is Dan willing to lose to save his friendship and maintain the Allen name.  It seems like trending towards that he's willing to lose whatever it takes.  That's the wild thing for me. 

 

[Riggo#44]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am fascinated to see how much either Dan is willing to lose for his boy and or how good Bruce is at manipulating him into believe they are close. 

 

Jay Gruden and Trent Williams will get the blame.

I wonder how long it will take before Allen blames Kyle Smith.

[Llevron]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Bringing this to Bruce as an example.  Russell has said multiple times he hears that part of the reason why Dan doesn't want to let Bruce go is because it would be summed as a failure and it would malign the Allen family legacy some. 

 

But to me the issue with Bruce is no longer so much about whether it will make a difference.  To much is Dan willing to lose to save his friendship and maintain the Allen name.  It seems like trending that he's willing to lose whatever it takes.  That's the wild thing for me. 

 

I never even considered this but it makes so much sense. Dan, I think, really does love this team like a true fan and all the history with it. He desperately wants to be a part of it, not burn it all down. I cant imagine that he wants to drag the first family down with him. Man thats got to suck for him. Im of the opinion that Dan is easily manipulated. I dont have alot of fatcs to suggest this but thats just what I think from looking from afar. And i know Bruce is good at manipulating people. It takes one to know one, as they say. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if when they get drunk and Dan talks about ending it all, Bruce gives him the "Imagine what this would do to my family's name" guilt trip. Again, im not a good person, and I would. Cause I know it would work. he seems weak for that ****. 

 

Thats really crazy. Almost makes me feel bad for him (dan) but not really. 

 

I dont think Dan has what it takes make the decision to lose his friendship in order to save his franchise. Thats too hard. So Allen helps him when hes weak. Thats some wild ****. 

[justice98]

Snyder always reminds me of that rich kid from Saved By the Bell, Maxwell Nerdstrom.

 

[SkinFanInMinn]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

...if the organization is making its decisions based solely on how #firebruceallen is trending, the problem goes so far beyond Bruce Allen (we know that). 

...

My biggest fear is that Allen stays as GM and Callahan is retained as the head coach.

My biggest fear was the Allen/Callahan combo after this year and I said so in some thread sometime back, but I don't think they'll be able to justify retaining Callahan after this mess (unless they win out the year or something dumb).  Allen on the other hand I have no confidence he'll be fired.

As for the hashtag issue, I hope the org does start making decisions based on how hashtags are trending.  It will be a lot better than the way decisions are being made now for sure.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Llevron said:

 

I never even considered this but it makes so much sense. Dan, I think, really does love this team like a true fan and all the history with it. He desperately wants to be a part of it, not burn it all down. I cant imagine that he wants to drag the first family down with him. Man thats got to suck for him. Im of the opinion that Dan is easily manipulated. I dont have alot of fatcs to suggest this but thats just what I think from looking from afar. And i know Bruce is good at manipulating people. It takes one to know one, as they say. 

 

 

the thing about him being manipulated brings me back to something either he said or someone close to him (can't recall) that Vinny made him feel good, he was the ever optimist.  Sounds like Vinny did his own version with him of "we are close".  Dan is easily manipulated as anyone is typically when someone keeps telling him something he really really wants to believe.

 

Dan I gather wants to believe he's doing it right but bad luck has foiled him, the evil media turned the fans against him because otherwise they'd dig him, and the success is just around the corner.

 

Heck we've had phases on this very thread from some straggler defenders of Dan-Bruce and their arguments are often a variation of the same thing with a dose of the other thing that Dan liked to sell years back when he still would do the rare interview which is that he's learned and grew.  Those interviews haven't aged well they more or less come off like Dan congratulating himself for the franchise turning the corner (which they haven't) because now he's the mature and the bigger and better version of himself.

 

This is the last interview I can find of Dan.  It starts about Notre Dame but about 4 minutes in he talks Redskins, you can hear the we are close vibe in his talk. 

 

 

 

 

[veteranskinsfan]

So we have Dan Snyder's father to blame then for encouraging him to buy the Redskins!!

[KillBill26]

11 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Lamar Jackson would never develop here the way he has in Baltimore. That's a real organization up there.

 

11 hours ago, SkinsUltima said:

Hate when people say this. Lamar was extremely raw his first year in Baltimore. You think we seriously would've made a offense around him and actually develop him like the Ravens did? What kind of franchise do you take us for?

Lamar Jackson in DC = rg3. 

 

Flashes at first, we think we have a franchise QB, then he goes to the owners office and tries to dictate what plays he runs, creates (or rather fuels or enhances) division in our franchise, then he flames out and is run out of town.  Other clubs don't have these issues, and talented players can actually reach their potential. 

[KillBill26]

4 hours ago, Llevron said:

 

I think something similar to that is happening with Danny boy. He is a loser and a jerk and he knows everyone knows it. His only way to not be that guy is to prove everyone wrong and win it his way. There cant be any other way because if there is, then who exactly has he been for the last 20 years? Some loser idiot like everyone says? No! Wont accept that! 

 

This is why we are ****ed until hes gives up or the good lord brings him home. 

 

I made myself sad 😕

Nail on the head.  Even if all the noise gets to Dan and he realizes he needs to make a move and fires Bruce, he will have that.moment where he will sit back and ponder.  He can decide to either hire a real gm and be hands off, or to hire a puppet and continue meddling.  Why would he turn it around now, after all the criticism he has gotten, and let the new gm get the credit?  And I'm sure he can convince himself he has as good of a shot as turning this around as anyone else.  

 

At the end of the day, I believe he decides to give it another go round doing it his way, to prove to the world he knew what he was doing all along, and the past failures were all due to bad luck.  After all, he did build a billion dollar company by his early thirties.  His peers aren't smarter than him.  He is just gonna tweak here and tweak there, and he will build a winner.  

 

And we all have a front row seat to watch the magic happen!!  What a time to be a Redskins fan!

[Thinking Skins]

The talk about firing Bruce and Cal and potentially KOC can have dire consequences. I'm the king of the "Bruce isn't that bad" type statements. And this may be one of those. But I just think about two possible scenarios. People want to focus on the "we're close" stuff from Bruce but lets talk about it. 

 

Scenario 1: We finish the year and play a lot of our young guys like Haskins, McLaurin, Harmon, Guice, Quinn, Moreau, Nicholson, Dunbar, Holcomb, Allen, Payne, Ioannidis, Sweat, etc all put up good numbers. Maybe we win a few and lose a few. We could say scenario 1a where we win all the rest of our games (and go 7-9) and 1b where we win say half our games and go 4-12 or so). 

 

Scenario 2: We finish the year and play our young guys but see little from them. It becomes clear that the names mentioned in scenario 1 are not a part of the future with this team. And the new coach will need to cut bait with them (or devise a scheme that helps them). 

 

I think most of us would want scenario 1 (there is probably debate between 1a or 1b). But then the question becomes what happens next year. We fire Bruce, Cal and KOC and suddenly a new coach wants to win with "his guys". A part of this question becomes does firing Bruce mean firing Kyle Smith? and Doug Williams? Santos? And on the back of this will the coach cut the players who finished the season showcasing their talent. And even if they stay here (they are on reasonable deals), what confidence that they'll be used well in a new scheme? 

 

This isn't really a "we must keep Bruce" thing, but just like we originally got Bruce and Mike as a package and that package was split up when Mike left. I've got to say I wouldn't mind Cal or KOC staying here if/when Bruce is let go.