Tax Bill

[Bonez3]

Is there a website, or can someone direct me to a source that breaks it down simply for the average person. Nobody Talked to knows what to expect. 

 

Something that I can reference and possibly expect based on how it applies to me. Thanks to anyone who can help

[twa]

1 minute ago, Bonez3 said:

Is there a website, or can someone direct me to a source that breaks it down simply for the average person. Nobody Talked to knows what to expect. 

 

Something that I can reference and possibly expect based on how it applies to me. Thanks to anyone who can help

 

there were two different calculators posted a few pages back, doesn't really break it down though....just probable cost/savings

[DogofWar1]

9 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

Is there a website, or can someone direct me to a source that breaks it down simply for the average person. Nobody Talked to knows what to expect. 

 

Something that I can reference and possibly expect based on how it applies to me. Thanks to anyone who can help

Considering the bill was constantly changing, I don't think any of the calculators can be trusted until the ink dries on the Pres' sig.  Even after that, it's likely to differ from state to state so make sure your calculator takes into account the impact on state laws.

[PleaseBlitz]

11 hours ago, HOF44 said:

Your going to have a great number of people with declining income and healthcare will be getting worse.  With the large numbers this will be happening to and the corresponding depression and anger combined with virtually no mental health care and an abundance of firearms.  I’d not want to be in the demographic they see as the problem.   We will end up seeing a lot more incidents like the softball game shooting.  

 

Unfortunately, this is probably right.  Guns and just run of the mill punchings like Rand Paul received.  

 

The correct response is protest at the ballot box, volunteering to make calls and knock doors, and financial support of whoever is supporting the policies you like/opposing the policies you dislike.  Hopefully people realize during the next few election cycles that 1) their vote matters and 2) intraparty squabbles or whining that your preferred candidate lost the primary are self-defeating and end up with the country's coffers being looted and probably it will get worse. 

 

 

8 hours ago, DogofWar1 said:

Well, the bad news is everyone making less than ~250K is ****ed sooner or later.

 

The good news is that my gf is a doctor and I'm a lawyer so maybe we can outrun the tax increases as they are phased back in.  We're just starting out but it's not inconceivable that in a decade we could be hella money.

 

I mean that or hopefully it just gets repealed and replaced in 2019.  Dust off that old, failed, Trumper/GOP slogan, re-purpose it.

 

Get yourself to Big Law asap. 

[Bonez3]

@DogofWar1 I don't understand, is it good under the tax bill to make more than 250k? What are you outrunning? What do you expect for people who make more than 250k? What do you expect for people who make less? 

 

Why are people arguing if nobody can even understand the vast majority of it? 

[PleaseBlitz]

5 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

@DogofWar1 I don't understand, is it good under the tax bill to make more than 250k? What are you outrunning? What do you expect for people who make more than 250k? What do you expect for people who make less? 

 

Why are people arguing if nobody can even understand the vast majority of it? 

 

I won't speak for DoW, but people that make better than $250k are going to see a lot more of the benefits than everyone else.  It's still probably a net loss until you have millions of dollar in assets though.

 

And people understand the broad strokes, it's just some of the details that are, for now, not exactly known yet.  

Edited December 20, 2017 by PleaseBlitz

[PeterMP]

11 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

@DogofWar1 I don't understand, is it good under the tax bill to make more than 250k? What are you outrunning? What do you expect for people who make more than 250k? What do you expect for people who make less? 

 

Why are people arguing if nobody can even understand the vast majority of it? 

 

The vast majority of it as large and permanent (unlike the tax cuts for individuals, which phase out) cut of the base tax rate for corporations without any real corresponding closing of the loop holes that were allowing corporation to already pay reasonable taxes (as compared to most other 1st world countries in the world).

 

That's not hard to understand.

31 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

Is there a website, or can someone direct me to a source that breaks it down simply for the average person. Nobody Talked to knows what to expect. 

 

Something that I can reference and possibly expect based on how it applies to me. Thanks to anyone who can help

CNN has one up.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/13/politics/calculate-americans-taxes-senate-reform-bill/index.html

Edited December 20, 2017 by PeterMP

[bearrock]

2 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

@DogofWar1 I don't understand, is it good under the tax bill to make more than 250k? What are you outrunning? What do you expect for people who make more than 250k? What do you expect for people who make less? 

 

Why are people arguing if nobody can even understand the vast majority of it? 

 

Much of the tax bill favors corporations, there is a good bit that gives a sizeable break for the rich (the lowering of the top rate, for example).  Also, because certain types of income are receive more favorable treatment (real estate income for example), people with a lot of disposable income can funnel their money to those types of investments.

 

The broad strokes are set.  We are down to arguing small percentages (e.g. 23% off the top exclusion for pass through income vs 20%, etc).  So if you want an accurate picture as to what exact dollar outcome will be for you, I think these online calculators and even your accountant will need some more time to digest and look at the final bill.

 

Big picture, unless you are receiving benefit from tax breaks targeted at the top income earners, you will likely see a small tax break during the next 7 to 8 years.  This was done to improve popularity of the bill as people see increase in their take home pay.  After 2025 to 2026, the individual tax cuts will expire and the individual tax breaks that went away are still gone.  So, compared to what your taxes would have been under the current system, you will likely see a tax increase.  This is necessary because to get around the filibuster, the tax reform has to be revenue neutral after 10 years.  Meaning every dollar in tax cut for the corporation has to be paid for somewhere.  They chose individual tax increase as the source of payment.

 

GOP is banking on two hopes.  That people will not blame the tax increase coming in 2025 on the GOP and put pressure on Dems to make it permanent.  Political cycle will likely mean a Dem White House in 2020 or 2024, so any resulting increase in the deficit will be blamed on the Dems and GOP can use it as an excuse to block any new administration's major initiatives.  It also gives them leverage to argue for rolling back social safety net programs.

 

GOP is also hoping that growth of the economy (both natural and spurred by this tax cut) will increase the revenue base during the next 7 to 8 years, so that they can declare the tax cut a success. 

[The Evil Genius]

Just so we are clear, the state and local income tax deductions have been eliminated right? And the property tax deduction will be capped at 10k?

 

**** me. Even more so, **** anyone who supports this.

 

 

Edited December 20, 2017 by The Evil Genius

[bearrock]

8 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

Just so we are clear, the state and local income tax deductions have been eliminated right? And the property tax deduction will be capped at 10k?

 

**** me. Even more so, **** anyone who supports this.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure that state and local income are back in, but that the total of state, local, and property is capped at 10K.  But compared to the existing system, because of the loss of personal exemption, itemizing will likely be a net loss compared to what exists right now.  You'll have to make it back with other credits (like child tax).

 

Do you have any flexibility to set up a pass through and get your money through that?  I feel like for the average joe, that would be a easiest way to game the system.  It would be nice of employers to cooperate and assist their employees in doing this.

 

EDIT

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2017/12/15/its-beginning-to-look-a-lot-like-tax-reform-heres-whats-in-the-final-version/#139352f84d63

 

Yup, state and local income tax are back in with the 10K cap for combination of state, local, and property.

Edited December 20, 2017 by bearrock

[LD0506]

[HOF44]

5 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

Just so we are clear, the state and local income tax deductions have been eliminated right? And the property tax deduction will be capped at 10k?

 

**** me. Even more so, **** anyone who supports this.

 

 

Last I heard you can deduct up to 10K in SALT and property tax.

[Hersh]

Pfizer already announced a major stock buyback ($10 Billion) today along with a stock dividend increase. Trickle down baby!!!

[LadySkinsFan]

The Republicans are willing to mortgage our future, our children's future, and future generations to further enrich the wealthy. That's just great! 

 

They didn't address our current debt, and they are now going to cut Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and not insure poor children. 

 

And they call themselves Christian and the party of family values. 

 

For shame!

[TMK9973]

5 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

Just so we are clear, the state and local income tax deductions have been eliminated right? And the property tax deduction will be capped at 10k?

 

**** me. Even more so, **** anyone who supports this.

 

 

No - State, local and Property taxes COMBINED are capped at 10k

(I do not support this bill - but just stating facts).

 

Most will see their taxes go down because the rates are lower and the cutoff amounts between rates are higher (But only for 10 years).  

 

[LadySkinsFan]

5 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

I'm pretty sure that state and local income are back in, but that the total of state, local, and property is capped at 10K.  But compared to the existing system, because of the loss of personal exemption, itemizing will likely be a net loss compared to what exists right now.  You'll have to make it back with other credits (like child tax).

 

Do you have any flexibility to set up a pass through and get your money through that?  I feel like for the average joe, that would be a easiest way to game the system.  It would be nice of employers to cooperate and assist their employees in doing this.

 

That will never happen, employers letting their employees set up their own pass throughs. They buried new requirements for independent contractors. It makes me glad I retired.

 

People will see a bit more in their paychecks, but wait until they do their taxes in 2019 and they have to pay. 

Edited December 20, 2017 by LadySkinsFan

[The Evil Genius]

Not sure about anyone else else but we paid 9600 in property tax alone this year.

 

Not sure how capping all SALT (including prop tax) at 10k makes sense.

 

That means I'll have another 10k in state income taxes that we will now have to pay federal tax on. Joy.

 

So yeah, **** anyone who supports this ****ty bill.

Edited December 20, 2017 by The Evil Genius

[bearrock]

5 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

 

That will never happen, employers letting their employees set up their own pass throughs. They buried new requirements for independent contractors. It makes me glad I retired.

 

Very true.  The ability of employers to more easily categorize people as independent contractors and vaporizing the protections that employees had is one of the most overlooked provision of the tax bill.  

[No Excuses]

19 minutes ago, Hersh said:

Pfizer already announced a major stock buyback ($10 Billion) today along with a stock dividend increase. Trickle down baby!!!

 

Donald Trump and the GOP really spoke to the concerns of real Americans.

 

Make America Great Again With Stock Buybacks.

[LD0506]

I get the angst here but seriously, who is sincerely surprised? Show of hands, anyone? Anyone?

 

You'd have to have been in a coma for the last 40 years to be even a little surprised at this, they don't even try to pretend anymore.

[visionary]

Back to the ol roaring 30’s!

 

 

Next we’ll be eliminating regulations down to industrial revolution level.  

 

 

 

[Hersh]

13 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

I get the angst here but seriously, who is sincerely surprised? Show of hands, anyone? Anyone?

 

You'd have to have been in a coma for the last 40 years to be even a little surprised at this, they don't even try to pretend anymore.

I don’t view it as angst or anyone being surprised. I think it’s more just an outlet to point out/vent about what a fraudulent party the GOP is these days. 

[TMK9973]

This is my issue..

EVEN if the republicans are correct that tax breaks spur growth (Despite history showing they dont) my question is how does this logic work right now?

Companies have record profits

Capital is very cheap right now

Stocks are all time high

 

There is NOTHING stopping companies from expanding NOW.  There is not a shortage of profits or access to money.  

[redskinss]

Why does everybody keep seperating the largest portion of the tax benefit into two segments, corporations and the rich. 

 

Aren't they pretty much the same thing? 

 

Kinda like saying this will benefit the owner of the Washington redskins and also Daniel Snyder. 

[The Evil Genius]

8 minutes ago, visionary said:

 

 

 

 

Of course he is. He's been rich his entire life (including his childhood). He has no idea what middle class or poor means.

 

The wrong Senator Paul got attacked a few months back. 

Edited December 20, 2017 by The Evil Genius