Popeman38 Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 (edited) 49 minutes ago, MarkB452 said: If you can not get that name right, did you really get approval from this group or do you not know what NAACP means? Does no open flames include people with candles? $100K at 8% from 1921 to now is around $1.7 Million. Well, it was a $1,000 gift, adjusted for inflation is $13,000 today. Literally pocket change for a university This list of demands is well done, and reflects very positively on the students of UVA. None of the demands are nonsensical, and having a student body and faculty reflective of state demographics should be the goal of every university. Edited August 24, 2017 by Popeman38 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 57 minutes ago, Popeman38 said: Our justice system is flawed. Their are a plethora of issues with it, and I don't claim it is perfect. But it is still the best in the world. While we should never stop trying to improve on it, calling for us to abandon it is pointless. Not trying to be an ass. Not trying to provoke and argument. But sometimes it seems like you advocate going back to a wild west scenario where people decide what is right and wrong and how to remedy things. Best in the world? I'll need to do some research on the rest of the world before I can agree or disagree on that. Do I want Wild West justice? Sometimes I do. But that's just me being emotional in the moment. Once all the emotions have passed, what I really want is a justice system that actually does what it claims to pursue. I'm not saying abandon the system, but if the foundations of it are rooted in racism, prejudice and an intentional bias against the poor, a large scale reform is needed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 5 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said: Best in the world? I'll need to do some research on the rest of the world before I can agree or disagree on that. Do I want Wild West justice? Sometimes I do. But that's just me being emotional in the moment. Once all the emotions have passed, what I really want is a justice system that actually does what it claims to pursue. I'm not saying abandon the system, but if the foundations of it are rooted in racism, prejudice and an intentional bias against the poor, a large scale reform is needed. Everything in this country is rooted in racism if you trace the beginnings back to the launch of the country. I agree with you on the reforms. Poor people shouldn't plead guilty just to resolve the situation. Poor people shouldn't be convicted because they can't afford a competent lawyer. I say the system is the best in the world because in researching criminal justice reform, all signs point to that. I am 18 credits shy of my degree (taking 12 right now) and part of my social science curriculum had us research criminal justice systems from around the world and compare/contrast to ours, and come up with ways to reform ours to make it better. The Nordic countries and Canada rank right there with the US. The prison system in Sweden should be our goal, but the system as a whole falls a little short. I'm not just beating the drum of "U.S. rules!" here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 17 hours ago, BornaSkinsFan83 said: Japan I think you're asking about a better justice system. Though I'm kinda stunned someone would be defending it that adamantly so maybe I'm misreading you. I'm joining this discussion late. Anyway...wanted to post this in here too just to make sure people know what's going on Japan? Ha! Ever been charged with a crine in Japan? I been in a Japanese prison? I have. You dont't want that unless you love being hit and eating uncooked rice and fish heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 uncooked rice is yucky. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Popeman38 said: Everything in this country is rooted in racism if you trace the beginnings back to the launch of the country. I agree with you on the reforms. Poor people shouldn't plead guilty just to resolve the situation. Poor people shouldn't be convicted because they can't afford a competent lawyer. It's not just having a competent lawyer, but one who actually has the time and resources to give their client a fair trial. I believe it was in New Orleans where the Public Defenders office went on strike due to a lack of resources and funding, and saw no other chance to give their clients fair trials then to slow the process to a halt. When you have stuff like this happening, something needs to be done ASAP to fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 (edited) 41 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Ever been charged with a crine in Japan? I been in a Japanese prison? I have. This sounds like it could be an interesting story if you're not opposed to sharing. 33 minutes ago, twa said: uncooked rice is yucky. Yup, really hard to enjoy your fish heads when the rice isn't cooked properly. Edited August 24, 2017 by Sacks 'n' Stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Just now, Gamebreaker said: It's not just having a competent lawyer, but one who actually has the time and resources to give their client a fair trial. I believe it was in New Orleans where the Public Defenders office went on strike due to a lack of resources and funding, and saw no other chance to give their clients fair trials then to slow the process to a halt. When you have stuff like this happening, something needs to be done ASAP to fix it. 100% with you. But part of that problem is over-prosecution. Pay the public defenders more, and tie the number to population density. We should address the problems. I really wish we, as a country, could have serious discussions without rioting. Raise the tax rates back to Reagan levels. Lift the SS income cap (tax every dollar). Invest in infrastructure and education. Cut the prison population. Reform the prison system. And think, I get labeled as a conservative on this board... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 29 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: This sounds like it could be an interesting story if you're not opposed to sharing. Yup, really hard to enjoy your fish heads when the rice isn't cooked properly. Not really that interesting. I was stationed there when I was young and dumb. Got drunk and beligerent out in town and thrown in the clink. Sobered me up real quick when you realize its not like American jail AND they arent huge fans of foreigners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 2 hours ago, Gamebreaker said: It's not just having a competent lawyer, but one who actually has the time and resources to give their client a fair trial. I believe it was in New Orleans where the Public Defenders office went on strike due to a lack of resources and funding, and saw no other chance to give their clients fair trials then to slow the process to a halt. When you have stuff like this happening, something needs to be done ASAP to fix it. I've had this notion rattling around loose in my head for some time, that there needs to be a rule that the PD must be given exactly the same resources as the DAs office has. (At least the same budget, per case. I'm aware that the DA handles lots of cases that the PD doesn't.) To do otherwise strikes me as stacking the deck against the accused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 (edited) 23 hours ago, Popeman38 said: Name one better. 6 hours ago, Popeman38 said: . But it is still the best in the world. I think you're wrong. Norway, Sweden, and Germany are far superior based on what little I know about justice Systems around the world. Our country couldn't even fathom adopting the culture they have towards people who commit crimes, which is why we will forever remain behind them. We like to pretend our legal system is great but in reality it's incredibly punitive, rehabilitation efforts are a joke, and race class and in general wealth has far to large of a factor in how you navigate the system then they should. Reminds me of mcavoy being asked to explain what makes America so awesome. Edited August 24, 2017 by tshile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 8 hours ago, Llevron said: Yea its not Japan. After reading "Tokyo Vice" by Jake Adelstein, I'm inclined to agree. Hell of a book, though. I'd strongly suggest it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornaSkinsFan83 Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Recidivism rate is the first thing I look at. Japan has a ridiculously low recidivism rate from what I remember. Jim Webb, the former Senator and one politician that I can recall ever spending any time on this issue, was always talking about Japan. That was 10 years ago and I'm not trying to remember the details now. And yes, the Nordic countries are the easy answer. I have to say though, It's borderline offensive, as someone who's been through the justice system, to see someone claim it's the best in the world. It really makes me cringe and feel legitimate anger. I wouldn't wish a trip through our justice system on anyone. It is life destroying. It will literally follow you and haunt you until the day you die. It's punitive based, not rehabilitative. It's a philosophy from the 19th Century outfitted for the 21st Century. And the results speak for themself. I always--before and now as an addiction therapist--see people who loudly support our justice system...until the moment their child ends up in it. Then they see. Then they understand. I really don't want to get into it all that in the thread though. Just wanted to post this in here (this is still the American Nazi thread right?) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Obvious reason #19007 that the GOP is garbage. Let's analyze two facts and see if we can draw any conclusions... 1: Russia wants to hurt the United States. 2: Russia wants the GOP in power. ergo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Oh my achin' head........ http://www.liberalmountain.com/us-politics/scott-baio-accused-heather-heyers-mom-sandy-hook-hoax-actor-wife-chips-details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 7 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: Obvious reason #19007 that the GOP is garbage. Let's analyze two facts and see if we can draw any conclusions... 1: Russia wants to hurt the United States. 2: Russia wants the GOP in power. ergo? Toldya. Oh wait, that's the other thread. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 A black man went undercover online as a white supremacist. This is what he learned https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2017/08/24/a-black-man-went-undercover-as-a-digital-white-supremacist-this-is-what-he-learned/?undefined=&utm_term=.75ecaa9fe320&wpisrc=nl_most&wpmm=1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 (edited) On 8/23/2017 at 4:35 PM, Gamebreaker said: On 8/23/2017 at 4:35 PM, Gamebreaker said: Our justice system is already worthless, and has been worthless since it's inception. We need to stop putting lipstick on this pig and make drastic changes. Moving a trial isn't due to making sure someone goes to jail, when presently it's a guarantee they won't. It's trying to remove the bias that's already present. On 8/24/2017 at 9:54 AM, Gamebreaker said: Exactly how is this response supposed to excuse widespread prosecutorial misconduct, openly biased Judges, and a system designed to allow you to get away with murder, literally, if you can afford it? But ruin your life over crimes that aren't even a felony if you're poor. I'm not playing this game, our justice system is trash. If you don't agree, please mount a defense of this system that doesn't come down to comparing it to even worse justice systems that are irrelevant. THis is such an over the top post. and ends with a "prove that this system is perfect" non-challenge. the challenge is YOURS to even begin to give a glimmer of a whisper of a hint of actual actionable improvements ... rather than the simple "this game sucks, burn it all down and start over..." (without any inkling of a hint of any possible improvements) that bull**** mentality is how we ended up with booger-eating moron as president. Burning **** down and starting over is the nuclear option (and the one that ends up with everybody ****ed). THis system works, if imperfectly. YOu can (and have) pointed out specific weaknesses in the system (systematic biases against poor and races)... offer suggestions for improvement... not the non-suggestion that some not-defined supper-secret OTHER system will somehow magically be better. Edited August 25, 2017 by mcsluggo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 1 minute ago, mcsluggo said: THis is such a naive, over the top post. and ends with a childish "prove that this system is perfect" non-challenge. the challenge is YOURS to even begin to give a glimmer of a whisper of a hint of actual actionable improvements ... rather than the childish "this game sucks, burn it all down and start over..." (without any inkling of a hint of any possible improvements) that bull**** mentality is how we ended up with booger-eating moron as president. Burning **** down and starting over is the nuclear option (and the one that ends up with everybody ****ed). THis system works, if imperfectly. YOu can (and have) pointed out specific weaknesses in the system (systematic biases against poor and races)... offer suggestions for improvement... not the non-suggestion that some not-defined supper-secret OTHER system will somehow magically be better. I made a statement about the system, SOMEHOW in order for my statement to be valid, TO YOU, I need to have a ****ing thesis on it's improvements. If something is bad, you don't need to have a detailed plan ready to go in order to acknowledge that it's bad. And at no point, did the person I was speaking to make any counter arguments for the system beyond, "**** is worse everywhere else." So please, take your BS "you're naive and childish" argument and shove it up your own ass. The system does not work. Period. Sorry if that hurt your precious feelings. No wait, I'm not sorry. Not even a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Maybe we should have another thread for the prison/justice system stuff.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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