Renegade7 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, pcbothwel said: Again, I brought up Matt Schaub the other day as a GREAT reference point. Mid round pick that sat behind overrated running QB. Showed at age 27 that he was a starter in the league. Then at 28, he threw for almost 5000 years along with great Y/A, Comp%, and QBR (All almost identical to Kirks numbers) You're making me nervous with that Schaub comparison. Kirk will look like a fool if he gets hurt or regresses in anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 They offered him $53 million guaranteed (disregarding BS injury guarantees) over, what probably 4-5 years? He's going to make about that much just from this year's tag and next year's tag, or this year's tag and the first year of his new contract next year. Without being tied to a team earlier than he has to be. So why the **** would he sign that deal? Some of us have been saying all along that our use of the tags and our talk of future use of another tag means the guaranteed need to be higher--his contract wasn't comparable to Luck or Carr because the tags mean he'll match their full guaranteed $$ in the next two years regardless, without even needing a LTD to get it. So again...why would he sign that? It was an attempt at an offer that would look fair to the uninformed and play well in the media (oops) but wouldn't hold up to any informed scrutiny. For that reason it was a bad offer he'd never sign...and that's without even knowing the length, or if there were escape clauses for the team built in, or any of that BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tay Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Those saying $53 was low because it's basically the tag and next year's transition tag, that's exactly how guarantees off the franchise tag are determined. Listen to any ex agent or ex GM. How do you think Kirk's agent came up with $44 last year. It was the 19.5 tag + 24 tag this year. The teams offer was fair. The treatment of Kirk or Kirk's desire to play elsewhere is the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_HOG Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlkyCaramel Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Just now, ConnSKINS26 said: They offered him $53 million guaranteed (disregarding BS injury guarantees) over, what probably 4-5 years? He's going to make about that much just from this year's tag and next year's tag, or this year's tag and the first year of his new contract next year. Without being tied to a team earlier than he has to be. So why the **** would he sign that deal? Some of us have been saying all along that our use of the tags and our talk of future use of another tag means the guaranteed need to be higher--his contract wasn't comparable to Luck or Carr because the tags mean he'll match their full guaranteed $$ in the next two years regardless, without even needing a LTD to get it. So again...why would he sign that? It was an attempt at an offer that would look fair to the uninformed and play well in the media (oops) but wouldn't hold up to any informed scrutiny. For that reason it was a bad offer he'd never sign...and that's without even knowing the length, or if there were escape clauses for the team built in, or any of that BS. So then why not counteroffer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 1 minute ago, ConnSKINS26 said: They offered him $53 million guaranteed (disregarding BS injury guarantees) over, what probably 4-5 years? He's going to make about that much just from this year's tag and next year's tag, or this year's tag and the first year of his new contract next year. Without being tied to a team earlier than he has to be. So why the **** would he sign that deal? Some of us have been saying all along that our use of the tags and our talk of future use of another tag means the guaranteed need to be higher--his contract wasn't comparable to Luck or Carr because the tags mean he'll match their full guaranteed $$ in the next two years regardless, without even needing a LTD to get it. So again...why would he sign that? It was an attempt at an offer that would look fair to the uninformed and play well in the media (oops) but wouldn't hold up to any informed scrutiny. For that reason it was a bad offer he'd never sign...and that's without even knowing the length, or if there were escape clauses for the team built in, or any of that BS. So basically it's all about money for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffmark1 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 The only way kirk even considers staying here imho is if snyder fires bruce and tells kirk the news personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 8 minutes ago, fordranger76 said: If you hate Bruce or not that is besides the point. What do you think Cousins actually deserves is the question. Look at what was offered. You don't honestly think that was a bad offer people do you? Take off your blinders. I am not blaming Kirk for wanting to get what he thinks he is worth but we would be a bunch of damn fools to go any higher on him. Top 12 QB in the league IF THAT should not be paid as the best. That contract if it is true should have gotten the deal done. He does not take it then screw him. I don't want a guy here that doesn't want to be here no matter who is at fault. Read my last post and if you agree with my logic (I could be wrong), maybe you'll see why many of us do not agree that it was a good offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Had heard before that Kirk didn't think Bruce and Snyder were quality people because of the way Snyder had treated Kirk when RG3 was on the team and because of the classless way Bruce handled the whole Scot thing. I suspect Bruce's ridiculous press release isn't going to change his mind. Oh well, least I got McVay in LA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Trade Kirk now. If a deal with SF for Hoyer is possible do it. A sweetener would be nice but an even up trade would improve the team by clearing the air and make the 2017 season more enjoyable. I don't see anyway for the season to be pleasurable under the present circumstances. Snyder gets to pocket 20M, Kirk gets to move on, and the fan base gets to look forward. Maybe Bruce's release is a precursor to a trade. As it stands now the fans have nothing to look forward to because after a good game or a good streak of games Cousins supporters like me are going to be as angry as pleased. Every loss will be a source of justification for the Skins holding back but enjoying losses is a poor return. There is no joy possible, 2017 is just going be a stink fest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinInsite Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 good luck selling those KC8 jerseys Danny boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Split this board between people who are fans of the team and fans of the players. Kirk was drafted to be a backup and if his ego can't take that tough for him. He should thank the Skins. His rookie contract would have shrank every extra spot he fell and every team in the league had passed on him at least three times.Only three QBs were taken after him in that draft, Ryan Lindley, BJ Coleman and Chandler Hamish. His start in Cleveland and Griffin's injury in the offseason meant people were loking at him as a potential starter since his second year and he got the job back despite being demoted to third string in his third year. If he's been drafted to team without the injury issues we had, there's no way he's being thought of as a potential starter by year two and he might be riding the bench somewhere having never gotten more than preseason snaps. 6 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said: Because no one else will work for him. Every "GM" or big name HC we've ever hired (before Gruden) was out of the NFL before we hired them. Do you legitimately think this is a problem with Snyder? The closest Dan Snyder has ever had to trying to promote an NFL coach was Zorn, who basically wasn't ready or good enough, he has had no chance to burn bridges with NFL coaches in his almost 20 years in the league. If that is legitimately the case why is that a problem with him and not with whatever old boys club there is in the NFL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, SlkyCaramel said: SO NOBODY IS GOING TO SAY A WORD ABOUT THE FACT THAT KIRK DIDN'T EVEN BOTHER TO COUNTEROFFER? This is ridiculous. Have you guys never negotiated? The first offer is usually LOW. The Skins aren't dumb. They knew that if Kirk countered he would likely be HIGH and they would probably be meeting in the middle. That can't happen if Kirk doesn't counter nor respond. How is Bruce wrong here? Because he was transparent and flat out told yall what happened which is what people were crying for all during the Scott debacle? You wanted transparency then, so he decides to give it to you now and you're still mad? I'm not happy with Kirk, but at least his side it is understandable since the QB market looks to jump up next year with several big deals for players looming (Stafford, Ryan, Brees, Mariota, Winston). But the wording of Allen's statement is intended to put all blame on the QB. It's low class. Have the Steelers or Rams in their tags that didn't go through released any similar statement? No. It's Allen throwing Kirk under the bus. So why would Kirk want to even negotiate with us next year after that statement? Seriously, all Allen had to do was say the team made a very lucrative offer, but Kirk's side decided to wait a year, both sides will discuss again when able. Instead he gives a statement to purposefully absolve him and make the QB look bad. What's the gameplan there? Get the fanbase hating the QB who is still on your team? Have everyone wish him gone and let us risk being crappy again? Kirk has said it's not about money, he wants to be wanted. Team showed him they do want him. So Kirk is also full of it. But did we see him or his agent release a statement right after throwing all the blame at the team? No. What about the rest of the team? You think they're going to like Allen running things when he releases specifics to the media and puts all the blame on the QB? He just ensured a toxic relationship, one that will hang over the team's head all season. The WAY Allen did this lines up too closely with the "anonymous" source about Scott. A guy that does these things is not business savvy, he's a snake and he needs to be fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 7 minutes ago, pcbothwel said: Im sorry, but you guys are a bunch of damn babies. We offered to make him, essentially, the highest plaid QB in football. Now, Everyone agrees that he is NOT worth that, but everyone also agrees that had all the leverage so it is more or less what needs to be offered. So what does Kirk's agent do? He doesnt even give us a counter. Bruce: Here is the contract McCartney: Nope, not going to work at all Bruce: Seriously, it makes him the highest paid QB in the league... Ok, what do you want then? McCartney: Honestly, its not really close enough to dig into the details. We prefer just to play out this year on the Tag. What in the Hell do you guys expect Bruce to offer at his point? Serious question. 5/135M with 65m SB and 90M Guaranteed? And all you guys talking about Kirk already guaranteed to 53M... Thats not how life works. He could get a concussion, ACL, shoulder, hand, etc... A lot of you guys are looking at this as if Kirk stays healthy and repeats last year. It could very well happen, but its not a fact. Again, I brought up Matt Schaub the other day as a GREAT reference point. Mid round pick that sat behind overrated running QB. Showed at age 27 that he was a starter in the league. Then at 28, he threw for almost 5000 years along with great Y/A, Comp%, and QBR (All almost identical to Kirks numbers) Not even close. I dont think you understand how any of this actually works. So, you want us to take you seriously, but then you suggest that in the QB starved NFL, if Kirk gets injured, the FIRST one of his career, he doesnt get tagged, or get a HUGE free agent deal next year? Really? You sure you want to stick with that? Because DEREK CARR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 1 minute ago, elkabong82 said: What about the rest of the team? You think they're going to like Allen running things when he releases specifics to the media and puts all the blame on the QB? He just ensured a toxic relationship, one that will hang over the team's head all season. The WAY Allen did this lines up too closely with the "anonymous" source about Scott. A guy that does these things is not business savvy, he's a snake and he needs to be fired. Boom. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 14 minutes ago, UK_HOG said: That's actually not very accurate. If the numbers were indeed accurate, it would be like giving Kirk what he is already guaranteed ($24M), plus adding on an additional $29 (he's not guaranteed that transition tag amount and if the Skins don't transition tag him, I highly doubt his offers get up to $28 M a year)....plus the additional years at whatever yearly salary, plus injury guarantee of $72 M. There was a lot extra for Kirk to consider, it wasn't--and shouldn't be seen as--simply offering him what he was gonna get anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redd Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 I'm fine with this. Kirk wants the big payout and we don't have a good enough defense to do jack crap anyway even if we sneak into the playoffs. Time to look forward.......again. Redskins 4 Lyfe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy Yoda Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Should have signed him a long time ago. Your trade value is garbage on the franchise tag, nobody wants to give you the farm for a one year rental no matter how good the player is. Obviously unless you had a guarantee from that player that they would sign a contract extension, that is the only way they redeem somewhat of their value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 If Snyder does indeed fire Bruce Allen, there is only one man for this job. The guy who negotiates million dollar deals for breakfast...and can probably handle euro trash if need be too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, elkabong82 said: What about the rest of the team? You think they're going to like Allen running things when he releases specifics to the media and puts all the blame on the QB? He just ensured a toxic relationship, one that will hang over the team's head all season. if this is the way Kirk is going to "negotiate" he deserves a toxic relationship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 7 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: So basically it's all about money for him. You can have $53 million guaranteed over 2 years or $53 million guaranteed over 4-5 years. Which do you prefer? It's not even close, even with the risk built into the first option (catastrophic injury or horrible play--neither of which Cousins is going to bank on). Players and agents only care about guarantees, not non-guaranteed salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbias Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 So after Allen is already committed for $24M, so he offers $53M total guaranteed, meaning only adding $29M to what is already promised? He then has the stones to present it as Kirk turning down $53M guaranteed (he Kirk already has $24M in hand)? Sounds like he's trying to sell us a new health plan.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordranger76 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said: Read my last post and if you agree with my logic (I could be wrong), maybe you'll see why many of us do not agree that it was a good offer. It we just look at guaranteed money on the deal and if it's true that is 53 million dollars. Just looking at the structure of the other contracts and take out what the franchise pays him that is one hell of a deal no matter how you look at it. Now I do see your point of it being a **** contract considering he is playing off the tag that is a very unique situation and should not have happened. Im speaking on the point of him making more promised money than both Carr and Luck. I do not think he is better or as good as either of the players hence why I do not feel that contract was bad at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 11 minutes ago, Peregrine said: When someone gives you an offer obviously worthless to you, you just say no thanks You nailed it. Our money is worthless to him. Even numbers making him among the highest paid / guaranteed number. But the offer Bruce spoke of was not of the insulting low ball yard sale variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddub52 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Let's get this breakup over with. Rescind the tag and move on. EDIT: Tag can't be rescinded (already signed). Thanks for the valuable info lion Lol omg wtf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.