Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 8 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: ...and what about Kirk leads you to believe that he would ever say anything remotely negative about stuff like this on the record? ....and why would the Redskins come out and admit 'Yeah, we messed up'? I don't expect anything but the status quo on the record from both parties. Earlier I asked rhetorically how much reality needs to be ignored in order to hang on to some of these stances...I didn't actually expect it to be answered lol... So ignore what they say, on record, multiple times and in numerous ways....and instead stick to how you imagine they must really feel. Yeah....I can't do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 2 hours ago, theTruthTeller said: I'm neither surprised or angry. The mistake was made last year - everything that has happened this year was entirely predictable. But tell me this - if you were Kirk, and you were looking at this totally objectively, what would the Skins need to offer that was a better deal than getting $24M guaranteed for 2017 and FA (with no required compensation from the signing team) in 2018? Keep in mind that this is going to be your one and only big bucks LTD in all likelihood. I have no idea why Kirk would want to accept a penny less than 125M with 75M guaranteed. The transition tag is 28M so unless the Skins want to let him walk they will need to put the transition tag on him again to even have an opportunity to keep him. Add the 2017 plus 2018 tags together it is 62M, so unless they sweeten it to 75 or 80M in guaranteed why even think about the Skins? Other better run franchises with better rosters and more balanced teams will vie for his services if and when he decides to go FA. Danny Snyder should put a very fat offer and close they deal now. All the other choices are worse, much worse for Snyder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgundyBooger Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Kirk isn't signing **** with this goofball organization unless he's comfortable with the direction it's going. Become one of the highest paid QBs in back-to-back seasons, then get a long-term contract that'll set his future grandkids for life? No brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 2 hours ago, Califan007 said: Earlier I asked rhetorically how much reality needs to be ignored in order to hang on to some of these stances...I didn't actually expect it to be answered lol... So ignore what they say, on record, multiple times and in numerous ways....and instead stick to how you imagine they must really feel. Yeah....I can't do that. So you always take what everyone in contract negotiations has to say at face value? Naive to say the least. Im sure Kirk is the least concerned in all of this as he stands to make a mint no matter which way it goes. It doesn't take much imagination to assume he would have preferred the team to roll out the red carpet and pay him what he wanted a long time ago, if only for the certainty and to not go through the song and dance and be constantly asked about it. As for the Redskins, I can only hope they aren't arrogant enough to really believe they have handled the Cousins situation well up to this point. It would take quite an imagination to see them actually saying that they screwed up the contract situation from the get go. So yeah, pardon me if I utilize common sense over PR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefanskins Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 2 hours ago, Califan007 said: I have no idea how much reality you absolutely must ignore to anchor down so strongly on some of these positions. But it can't be healthy. lol...there he is, there's the Cali I love... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffmark1 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Califan007 said: What? lol 98% of the argument against drafting Cousins was that fans thought it was a wasted draft pick since the team mortgaged so much on a QB already in the draft...it had ZERO to do with being upset that Cousins was a "potential starter". Fans were bothered that a 4th round pick was used on a guy who, if things panned out, would never see the field. That's why the running rhetoric at the time, both among fans and definitely in the media, was that Shanahan must be thinking of trading Cousins down the road to recoup some picks. It's also why a huge majority of fans here said Cousins flushed his trade value down the toilet with his performance at the end of the 2013 season. That doesn't mean he wasn't thought of around the league as a potential starter and a steal at the 4th round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theTruthTeller Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 7 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said: I have no idea why Kirk would want to accept a penny less than 125M with 75M guaranteed. The transition tag is 28M so unless the Skins want to let him walk they will need to put the transition tag on him again to even have an opportunity to keep him. Add the 2017 plus 2018 tags together it is 62M, so unless they sweeten it to 75 or 80M in guaranteed why even think about the Skins? Other better run franchises with better rosters and more balanced teams will vie for his services if and when he decides to go FA. Danny Snyder should put a very fat offer and close they deal now. All the other choices are worse, much worse for Snyder. As I said earlier, right now the Skins are negotiating against themselves - they need to beat $24M guaranted/1 year/FA in 2018 just to have a seat at the table with Kirk's agent. The possible contracts we're coming up with on ES are all oversimplified, so there really isn't any point in guessing what Kirk is willing to accept. But it will be a hell of a contract, for sure. I'm not all that sure that the teams competing for him are much better organizations, they may be worse. SF, Cleveland, Rams, Jets are pretty much a mess, although I think SF and LA get a lot of deference because of their HC situations. Texans could be in the mix, so could the Jags. The transition tag won't work against SF, Cleveland or Houston - its too easy for them to structure a deal that the Skins can't match, even if the overall money is the same. The Skins really need to come through here in the next month, or work out a trade. That's why I don't think it will actually come down to the last day or two. The Skins have too much to lose if Kirk plays hardball and it will take some time to cut their losses. My guess is that its all wrapped up by July 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsPassion4Life Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Anyone hear this rumor that Kirk and Colt don't get along? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tay Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 4 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said: Anyone here this rumor that Kirk and Colt don't get along? I heard this on the Junkies last week. They even mentioned that this came up in negotiations. I hope it's not a big deal (I doubt it is), and wouldn't give pause to Kirk on wanting a LTD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 I can't imagine the Kirk/Colt relationship plays into anything at all and if it does - god help us. Every backup QB has to tote the company line about supporting everyone in the QB room and making sure they are ready to play when called upon, yadda yadda. But realistically, the starting QB is the backup QB's enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said: I can't imagine the Kirk/Colt relationship plays into anything at all and if it does - god help us. Every backup QB has to tote the company line about supporting everyone in the QB room and making sure they are ready to play when called upon, yadda yadda. But realistically, the starting QB is the backup QB's enemy. If Colt McCoy being around was holding this up, he'd have been cut by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTskin Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 26 minutes ago, Cliffmark1 said: That doesn't mean he wasn't thought of around the league as a potential starter and a steal at the 4th round. No one thought that and, to be blunt, you're misremembering if you think it was any different. We thought Kirk was a wasted 4th round pick. Sure, maybe an analyst or two thought Kirk could be decent, but you're massively overrating Kirk's projection coming into the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Stupid Loser Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 I got a Cousins jersey for Christmas last year. That's my only real concern in any of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffmark1 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 53 minutes ago, CTskin said: No one thought that and, to be blunt, you're misremembering if you think it was any different. We thought Kirk was a wasted 4th round pick. Sure, maybe an analyst or two thought Kirk could be decent, but you're massively overrating Kirk's projection coming into the league. You didn't think that it doesn't mean others didn't. I would look up the analysts on draft day and the national media, they will echo what I said verbatim. He slid and could be a starter. For example: kirk cousins is a 2nd or 3rd round pick on this. they go over his intangibles and quick release project him as a top 50 pick. Scouts Inc/Espn projects 57th overall if I read this correctly. http://m.espn.com/nfl/draftcard?playerId=28010&src=desktop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, Cliffmark1 said: You didn't think that. look up the analysts on draft day and the national media, they will echo what I said verbatim. He slid and could be a starter. It was certainly an opinion that was out there. In fact, I think because of the RGIII euphoria, the move was received more level-headed outside of the DMV than inside. I do remember that Cousins was considered a great value draft pick in the 4th round. Again, among Redskin fans the move was almost instantly hated and Cousins was mocked as a career backup. We had just made the move to draft Griffin and many fans thought we were set with Steve Young 2.0 for the next decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 42 minutes ago, Fat Stupid Loser said: I got a Cousins jersey for Christmas last year. That's my only real concern in any of this. I told myself I'm not going to get a Cousins jersey until he signs a long term deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 29 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said: It was certainly an opinion that was out there. In fact, I think because of the RGIII euphoria, the move was received more level-headed outside of the DMV than inside. I do remember that Cousins was considered a great value draft pick in the 4th round. Again, among Redskin fans the move was almost instantly hated and Cousins was mocked as a career backup. We had just made the move to draft Griffin and many fans thought we were set with Steve Young 2.0 for the next decade. Had we not done the RG3 thing, Cousins and Wilson were said to be the two we were considering in round 2 if we didn't go for a QB with our natural first round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 21 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said: I told myself I'm not going to get a Cousins jersey until he signs a long term deal. The only active player's jersey I have ever bought was Sean Taylor. Actually bought 2. I had his rookie 36, then the 21. That didn't end well. I have sworn off all jersey's of active players since. (This is not exactly true, my wonderful wife got me a "Pot Roast" (literally says Pot Roast on the back) as a gag birthday present. I don't count that one...) 14 minutes ago, Darth Tater said: Had we not done the RG3 thing, Cousins and Wilson were said to be the two we were considering in round 2 if we didn't go for a QB with our natural first round pick. Yeah, wasn't there also a chance that they would have gotten Tannehill in the 1st? I don't remember where the 'Skins were picking originally, but I thought that I heard that absent a trade for Griffin, Tannehill was an option in the first, and then Wilson was the backup. Hindsight being 20-20, instead of wasting their 3rd rounder on Ribbs, they should have snagged Wilson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 i read about that Dolphins players agent setting a deadline for extension talks...you think kirks agent should do that? Might give the front office a bit of an incentive to get a deal done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Stupid Loser Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 30 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said: I told myself I'm not going to get a Cousins jersey until he signs a long term deal. That was my plan as well, but my awesome wife got me one anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tay Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 6 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said: i read about that Dolphins players agent setting a deadline for extension talks...you think kirks agent should do that? Might give the front office a bit of an incentive to get a deal done? Did the Dolphins franchise anyone this year? If not, that's why the agent is pushing a deadline. The Redskins and Kirk have a deadline 7/17 established by the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 7 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said: i read about that Dolphins players agent setting a deadline for extension talks...you think kirks agent should do that? Might give the front office a bit of an incentive to get a deal done? There is already a deadline, it's July 17th. No need for an arbitrary deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 17 minutes ago, Tay said: Did the Dolphins franchise anyone this year? If not, that's why the agent is pushing a deadline. The Redskins and Kirk have a deadline 7/17 established by the league. Apparently not. I saw the link on NFL.com about Jarvis Landrys agent setting a deadline on extension talks with the Dolphins and I figured that meant he set a deadline for extension talks before the July 17th deadline. Appears thats not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Lombardi comes on strong with his opinion about Bruce and the Kirk negotiations from the stand point of working with Bruce in a previous job. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jun/19/michael-lombardi-former-nfl-executive-says-bruce-a/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Man, Lombardi didn't mince his words in the least lol. I just can't get myself to be radical for one side, due to understanding how unique this situation was, in regards to the timing and small sample of player doing big things. There's literally no other situation in the history of the league that compares to what the Skins organization is going through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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