ESPN.com: Kirk Cousins contract talks with Redskins on positive track

[JSSkinz]

5 hours ago, SkinssRvA said:

Rg3 was a sunk cost. Bad deal. Lost money. In no way shape or form should that have impacted our dealings with Kirk once rg was benched.  Rg3 was off the books so if you think you have a good player in the most important position in football you look to sign them to team friendly deals as soon as possible. There have been numerous opportunities to do so and we've blundered them all. Trading a bazillion picks for rg3 was a terrible decision in retrospect. Don't compound the problem 

 

2

 

Typically I agree with your posts but I hate the use of "sunk costs" because the NFL is unlike a normal business in that you can't write off bad debt or depreciate assets so you get nothing back to the cap to give you warm and fuzzy's when you're about to unload a huge amount of money on a guy who played 9 games.

 

Then there's the human aspect of knowing you blew it on a first rounder and if you blow the next opportunity the sky will fall.

 

I think even if we pay him the $24 mil a year it was worth the risk but I don't think anyone is right or wrong here, in hindsight obviously signing him last year would have been better but nobody had a crystal ball and it was 9 games, not an entire season or seasons.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Judging by most of the posts here, its party time if Kirk signs a long term contract.  So I'd think most of it would be D.  I don't think among the pro lets gets this done group I sense much of a disclaimer in terms of yeah we signed him but...

 

I think if there is some negativity its more likely from more of the Kirk is overrated crowd we got here who might have a beef if Kirk gets major dollars. 

 

And heck with the local media types, it would be a borderline miracle so it would be entertaining to hear their explanation.  For me, as I've said before I'd enjoy watching Mike Silver (NFL Network) the most since he's been so arrogant claiming its a done deal that Kirk will be a 49er soon.  

 

That whole part in bold, good lord, yes lol...

 

The rest of the part, while probably true, is more the emotional reaction to Kirk signing a LTD. I was asking more about how everyone individually would ultimately analyze Cousins signing if he signed at literally the last hour.

[SkinssRvA]

2 hours ago, elkabong82 said:

 

I understood you fine, you were the one needing things re-explained, but whatever.

 

You say sunk cost sure, but the rest of your post highlights why that is wrong. "If you think you have a good player in the most important position" That right there. The FO wasn't sure. Short resume from Kirk, and vs. wek defenses. Had they not just had a QB who looked amazing for 1 season and then busted out, maybe they would have felt better about committing to Kirk after 2015. RG3 was OROY, damn near took this team to the Superbowl (would have if Shanny kept him on bench to prevent injury), and proceeded to be a complete bust. So yeah, that very much is going to affect how much a team wants to see out of the next QB before comitting a LTD to him. You're being dishonest if you can't admit that influence.

What do you mean the front office wasn't sure?  You mean Bruce?  By all accounts everyone else has been vying for Kirk. For a while. Well, except you of course. 

 

And im not being dishonest at all with what I've said. Search through my post history, I've been a Kirk guy. Shanny drafted him, jay and Scot wanted him signed, and your boy skinssrva has been saying the same thing. After rg3 was benched we had an opportunity to sign Kirk pennies on the dollar. I was there asking for it. 

 

Even if we didn't do it then we had another offseason to get it done. This thing has been a nightmare and IS THE WORST job of managing a free agent in NFL history. And Kirk and his agent are taking the skins (or someone else) to the bank. 

 

Again, looking at your post, you aren't recognizing what I'm saying. RG3 isn't a part of kirk's contract. Him being a bust means zilch. If companies the world over stopped taking risks once one failed there'd be a lot of empty pockets. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

23 hours ago, jschuck12001 said:

 

Typically I agree with your posts but I hate the use of "sunk costs" because the NFL is unlike a normal business in that you can't write off bad debt or depreciate assets so you get nothing back to the cap to give you warm and fuzzy's when you're about to unload a huge amount of money on a guy who played 9 games.

 

Then there's the human aspect of knowing you blew it on a first rounder and if you blow the next opportunity the sky will fall.

 

Kind of reminds me of Hollywood and greenlighting movies...if you're the studio exec who greenlights a big budget summer blockbuster that gets lots of hype and promotion but ends up tanking at the box office, you can survive it and the studio can find a way to recoup some of the cost. If you are that exec and greenlight another summer blockbuster, though, that **** better break box office records lol...

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

That whole part in bold, good lord, yes lol...

 

The rest of the part, while probably true, is more the emotional reaction to Kirk signing a LTD. I was asking more about how everyone individually would ultimately analyze Cousins signing if he signed at literally the last hour.

 

Speaking for myself, I don't care how late it happens.  I'd guess if anything it would add a little buzz to the signing if it happened that late.

[SkinssRvA]

14 minutes ago, jschuck12001 said:

 

Typically I agree with your posts but I hate the use of "sunk costs" because the NFL is unlike a normal business in that you can't write off bad debt or depreciate assets so you get nothing back to the cap to give you warm and fuzzy's when you're about to unload a huge amount of money on a guy who played 9 games.

 

Then there's the human aspect of knowing you blew it on a first rounder and if you blow the next opportunity the sky will fall.

 

I think even if we pay him the $24 mil a year it was worth the risk but I don't think anyone is right or wrong here, in hindsight obviously signing him last year would have been better but nobody had a crystal ball and it was 9 games, not an entire season or seasons.

The uniqueness here is that rg3 is off the books the next year after cousins was named the starter. So we essentially gain back all that rg3 money. Also, we didn't give up anything other than a 4th rounder for Kirk. I'm not saying ignore recent investments, I'm saying they shouldn't be a deciding factor in how you move forward. It was clear rg3 was gone, and 19 mil per year deal for Kirk wouldn't have crippled us.  

 

Of course the front office knew they blew it with rg3. He had to win multiple super bowls to make that deal worth it. And he ended up in the gutter. You can't stop progressing because you made a mistake. 

 

And I'm happy to have people disagree with me  I take nothing personally!  

 

 

[Veryoldschool]

6 hours ago, TheShredSkinz said:

 

Another difference was Norman being considered league wide one of the best at his position.

 

Ditto for Cousins hence the Pro Bowl Bid...

[PartyPosse]

7 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Ditto for Cousins hence the Pro Bowl Bid...

Cousins only made it because he was an alternate for Arod. 

 

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

52 minutes ago, jschuck12001 said:

Then there's the human aspect of knowing you blew it on a first rounder and if you blow the next opportunity the sky will fall.

I'm no defender of Robert Griffin but we DID NOT "blow" a first rounder on him. We blew three first round picks on him...

 

and a high 2nd.

[Veryoldschool]

22 hours ago, jschuck12001 said:

 

Typically I agree with your posts but I hate the use of "sunk costs" because the NFL is unlike a normal business in that you can't write off bad debt or depreciate assets so you get nothing back to the cap to give you warm and fuzzy's when you're about to unload a huge amount of money on a guy who played 9 games.

 

Then there's the human aspect of knowing you blew it on a first rounder and if you blow the next opportunity the sky will fall.

 

I think even if we pay him the $24 mil a year it was worth the risk but I don't think anyone is right or wrong here, in hindsight obviously signing him last year would have been better but nobody had a crystal ball and it was 9 games, not an entire season or seasons.

 

I think the failure to sign Cousins to a LTD after 2015 was the same kind of stupid that spent 3 firsts and a second rounder for a skinny college QB that ran a high school offense in a no defense conference.  Both decisions showed a lack of appreciation for the most critical element for success at QB, brains.  More specifically high spatial intelligence and rapid processing speed.  Griffins processing speed was totally untested at Baylor and was quickly found wanting in the NFL hence the switch to the zone read 4 games into the 2012 season.

 

As for Griffin's 2012 season maybe you had to over 50 to have seen enough NFL play to have known from the get go how him running was going to work out.  Running QBs get killed in the NFL.  A college QB running the football usually doesn't last the entire year in a conference that plays defense.  How often does Urban Meyer finish the season with the same QB he started the year with?  They can't even go 12 games in the B1G, a running QB in the NFL is a suckers bet.

 

Cousins quick process speed was well established long before the end of 2015, if the Skins evaluator knew what to look for they would have made a suitable offer and signed him.  Snyder the evaluator that counts doesn't understand the importance of processing speed, hence he bought a pig in a poke with utterly untested Griffin and refuses to ante up for Cousins.  Snyder still doesn't understand and appreciate what he has in Kirk. 

 

Snyder is already in the books for one of biggest draft busts of all time.  How dumb is Snyder going look if he lets Cousins slip out of his hands and Kirk has a HOF career with a better run franchise?  If you think that is impossible think again a guy who can throw for 9,000 yards in his first 2 years starting would really crank if he had a defense and a running game on a good team.

[Rex Tomb]

27 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

Snyder is already in the books for one of biggest draft busts of all time.  How dumb is Snyder going look if he lets Cousins slip out of his hands and Kirk has a HOF career with a better run franchise?  If you think that is impossible think again a guy who can throw for 9,000 yards in his first 2 years starting would really crank if he had a defense and a running game on a good team.

 

I actually think that this may be a motivator to sign Kirk to a LTD even if it means he has to back up the Brinks truck to do it.

 

He has to know, in retrospect, that the decision to draft RG3 while giving up the farm to do so is not a moment he is proud of.  Snyder knows that RG3 can't even start for Cleveland, the laughing stock and red-headed stepchild of the NFL.  That has to stick in his craw.  

[Tsailand]

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2017/06/15/kirk-cousins-to-join-1067-the-fan-exclusively-this-fall/

 

“Under Center with Kirk Cousins” begins after Washington’s first preseason game, and runs through the end of the season, kicking off with a two-hour special on July 17 (10 a.m. to 12 p.m.) — two days after the deadline for Cousins and the Redskins to come to terms on a long-term deal.

 

Cousins will join 106.7 The Fan exclusively for a lengthy special — hosted by Grant & Danny — to discuss the story behind why he was, or was not, able to come to a long-term agreement with the Redskins. It will be the only interview Cousins gives after the deadline passes.

 

Holy **** he is really sticking it to Dan Snyder with this radio thing. Brilliant move by his agent.

 

[CommDownMan]

1 hour ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I'm no defender of Robert Griffin but we DID NOT "blow" a first rounder on him. We blew three first round picks on him...

 

and a high 2nd.

 

Actually, in the end we gave them away.

 

The Rams then blew them.

[Tsailand]

3 hours ago, SkinssRvA said:

The uniqueness here is that rg3 is off the books the next year after cousins was named the starter. So we essentially gain back all that rg3 money.

 

We didn't spend much money on RG3, as QB salaries go.  The true cost was the value of the picks and the wasted 2013 and 2014 seasons.

 

At least two of the lost picks would still be under team control right now, assuming they weren't busts.  If we go by how those picks were actually spent, our missing players are Desmond Trufant and Greg Robinson.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

We are in weird territory here...but we are well past the point of where an NFL front office should have had enough information to make a go/no-go decision. That, more than anything, is what's puzzling to me. 

 

I don't know enough to definitively say he's worth or not worth $25M per year and $75M guaranteed. But, our scouts and personnel department should know by now. And that's why it's either criminal that we haven't locked him in OR criminal that we're prepared to pay him $45M over two years as a rental. 

[Tay]

1. It's 2 sided. Both sides must want to get a deal done. 

 

2. If 1 camp isn't countering the offer, there's no reason for the other to continually bid against itself.

 

3. We simply have no idea what's going on with the negotiations. We don't know if one party is being unreasonable. 

[theTruthTeller]

1 hour ago, Tay said:

1. It's 2 sided. Both sides must want to get a deal done. 

 

2. If 1 camp isn't countering the offer, there's no reason for the other to continually bid against itself.

 

3. We simply have no idea what's going on with the negotiations. We don't know if one party is being unreasonable. 

I really have no idea on how much Kirk values staying in DC where he has flourished under Jay's system.  I'm sure its worth something to him.  But if you ignore that, Kirk's side isn't going to make a lot of counters because the negotiation is between (1) what the Skins are offering and (2) what the Skins have already committed to, i.e., $24M guaranteed this year and free agency next year.

 

Of course, what Kirk could get in FA is entirely speculative.  Assuming Kirk performs well again this year and assuming that the Skins would join in the bidding war, then a lot depends on whether Goff continues to flop in LA.  That would leave three teams vying for Kirk which would probably result in a pretty big payday.  Of course, he's taking a risk that not everything works out.  Injury, a bad start, or a bad ending to the season could all knock down his payday considerably.

 

My personal feeling is that most agents act in public like they want to test the market, but they really lean towards the bird in the hand.

[elkabong82]

16 hours ago, SkinssRvA said:

What do you mean the front office wasn't sure?  You mean Bruce?  By all accounts everyone else has been vying for Kirk. For a while. Well, except you of course. 

 

And im not being dishonest at all with what I've said. Search through my post history, I've been a Kirk guy. Shanny drafted him, jay and Scot wanted him signed, and your boy skinssrva has been saying the same thing. After rg3 was benched we had an opportunity to sign Kirk pennies on the dollar. I was there asking for it. 

 

Even if we didn't do it then we had another offseason to get it done. This thing has been a nightmare and IS THE WORST job of managing a free agent in NFL history. And Kirk and his agent are taking the skins (or someone else) to the bank. 

 

Again, looking at your post, you aren't recognizing what I'm saying. RG3 isn't a part of kirk's contract. Him being a bust means zilch. If companies the world over stopped taking risks once one failed there'd be a lot of empty pockets. 

 

No, I mean the FO decision makers. By all accounts we don't know who was in on Kirk and who wasn't after 2015, and again it was due to the short resume as a top quality starter. "Except you of course" - Nope. wrong. I said back then and say now he was worth the risk, but I also said I'm not the one who would be putting the team at risk if I'm wrong. Unlike you and others, I actually was able to look at things without bias and see the rationality in waiting. 

 

Only reason you were advocating for Kirk in the Shanny days was the same reason a few others were: you were desperate for an answer at QB. That's it. Nobody back then knew if Kirk could be the guy. Hell we didn't even know when he was named starter at the start of 2015! Spare me this notion that back then it was some slam dunk opportunity that you just knew would pan out. Lol!

 

It's been a nightmare, FOR YOU! and for us fans having to wait. But drop the histrionics, it ruins credibility in an argument. "The worst job of managing a free agent in the history of the NFL" LOL! I mean, seriously, talk about a drama queen. Nevermind all the free agents who have left because a team was cheap. People have even recently brought up Drew Brees in here. What hapened with RG3 definitely was a reason the team hesitated with Kirk, not my fault you refuse to see it Mr. Magoo.

[Veryoldschool]

4 hours ago, theTruthTeller said:

 

My personal feeling is that most agents act in public like they want to test the market, but they really lean towards the bird in the hand.

 

That may be true generally but I think you can totally toss that out with Cousins and his agent.  The show no evidence of fear of going over the falls playing on the Transition Tag and may not want a LTD with the Skins because Cousins may wish to leave and certainly has to no fear of leaving.  They have all the leverage and are confident of Kirk being Kirk and having another great year and getting a 125-150M deal in 2018 from someone.  Can you imagine how pathetic the Skins will look if they put the transition tag on Kirk for 28M in 2018 and Cousins just smiles and signs it.

[Skinsinparadise]

17 hours ago, Tsailand said:

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2017/06/15/kirk-cousins-to-join-1067-the-fan-exclusively-this-fall/

 

“Under Center with Kirk Cousins” begins after Washington’s first preseason game, and runs through the end of the season, kicking off with a two-hour special on July 17 (10 a.m. to 12 p.m.) — two days after the deadline for Cousins and the Redskins to come to terms on a long-term deal.

 

Cousins will join 106.7 The Fan exclusively for a lengthy special — hosted by Grant & Danny — to discuss the story behind why he was, or was not, able to come to a long-term agreement with the Redskins. It will be the only interview Cousins gives after the deadline passes.

 

Holy **** he is really sticking it to Dan Snyder with this radio thing. Brilliant move by his agent.

 

 

According to Grant, Kirk is staying with their show for the simple reason that they were the first one to offer him a weekly show so he's staying loyal.  They offered him the gig before he was named starter in 2015.

 

Grant also threw another nugget last week on the subject.  And its a change for him because he liked to say Scot wasn't sold that quickly about Kirk.  But he said he recently learned that Scot after watching Kirk for the first 3 weeks in camp went to Dan and told him this dude is Matt Hasselbeck.   He meant it as a complement, you can win with him, etc.

[wit33]

What a great comparison. Never thought of that one. 

[SkinssRvA]

10 hours ago, elkabong82 said:

 

lol 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

According to Grant, Kirk is staying with their show for the simple reason that they were the first one to offer him a weekly show so he's staying loyal.  They offered him the gig before he was named starter in 2015.

 

Grant also threw another nugget last week on the subject.  And its a change for him because he liked to say Scot wasn't sold that quickly about Kirk.  But he said he recently learned that Scot after watching Kirk for the first 3 weeks in camp went to Dan and told him this dude is Matt Hasselbeck.   He meant it as a complement, you can win with him, etc.

 

It changed with him but Russell and Keim still stick to the thought that Scot wasn't sold at all on Cousins after training camp ended. They're adamant about it.

[ILikeBilly]

9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

According to Grant, Kirk is staying with their show for the simple reason that they were the first one to offer him a weekly show so he's staying loyal.  They offered him the gig before he was named starter in 2015.....

So Kirk is loyal. We are the team that drafted him.  We are the team that named him the starter over the #2 overall pick in the draft.  If he really is loyal to a radio show, he will try to be loyal to the Redskins too. 

 

It is clear what this means........Championship(s)

[mistertim]

On 6/17/2017 at 8:27 PM, Veryoldschool said:

 

Ditto for Cousins hence the Pro Bowl Bid...

 

Eh...after the 2015-2016 season was over Norman was the #1 rated CB in the NFL's top 100 and the #11 overall player. Kirk was rated the #13 QB and #85 overall player. That's a pretty big difference. Not that that list is the end-all-be-all but it is voted on by players. IMO it's a bit of a stretch to put them in the same category as far as their status at their respective positions.