ESPN.com: Kirk Cousins contract talks with Redskins on positive track

[purbeast]

Maybe we should go find Colt Brennan.  I remember people thinking he was the future too.  I hear he's out of football currently (and has been for years) so it should be easy for us to find him and sign him.

[Veryoldschool]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I like this optimism from JLC.  to his credit he's been optimistic most of the way.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/deal-or-no-deal-the-odds-for-kirk-cousins-leveon-bell-and-trumaine-johnson/

Odds: 80 percent 

The sides have come too far and been through too much not to see this through. For as much was made about faux trade demands and how Cousins allegedly only wanted to play for the 49ers or whatever, the odds have always been strongest that he re-signed with the Redskins. Cousins was certainly not thrilled about being tagged again, but that's the business, and he's nothing if not pragmatic.

 

A year ago these sides were playing footsie, with no chance of a deal really getting done and owner Dan Snyder and team president Bruce Allen wanting to see Cousins prove it on the field for another season. He's done that now, and they aren't going to be picking high enough to land a top QB next year and they can't try to make another RG3-type trade to get one and franchising Cousins for a third straight year is silly and shortsighted as well.

 

This is the time to make something happen and Allen knows that and he is motivated to make the quarterback a known and fixed cost for the owner. Letting Pierre Garconand DeSean Jackson walk was a nod to that, and the Redskins believe Cousins can help further develop young receivers. He's become a leader and a fixture at a position of perpetual angst for Snyder, and this team knows what it's like not to have a function, winning passer.  

 

And they can't go back to the abyss. For as much as Cousins can reasonably talk about $25M a year, he and his representatives are smart, savvy people, and if it ends up being $23M a year and four seasons are in essence guaranteed by the salary structure, that's a major win for the former fourth round pick. I don't see this falling apart. There's just too much at stake for both sides.

 

This all sounds reasonable to me any rational owner would have wrapped this deal up long ago and our off season would have been a lovefest and instead of a ****athon.  I hope I am pleasantly surprised on or before 7/17 but I think the odds of a deal are more like the reverse, I think there is less than a 20% chance of it happening.

[Tsailand]

21 minutes ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

Not odd at all to me.

 

I'm in the minority but I believe Sudfeld is the most talented QB on the roster.

 

Not best QB on the roster (yet), just the most talented from a physical standpoint.

 

You'd think that over the last five years fans would have learned something about the important of physical talent at the QB position.

 

Versus, you know, mental talent.

[Skinsinparadise]

42 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

This all sounds reasonable to me any rational owner would have wrapped this deal up long ago and our off season would have been a lovefest and instead of a ****athon.  I hope I am pleasantly surprised on or before 7/17 but I think the odds of a deal are more like the reverse, I think there is less than a 20% chance of it happening.

 

I share your enthusiasm about Kirk.  We differ a little on the blame game if a deal doesn't happen -- if I deal doesn't happen, I wouldn't put it all on Dan, I'd throw some blame Bruce's way.  But in the scheme of things, I don't really care too much about who to blame.  I agree with JLC's point, the stakes are too high for them to blow this.  It wouldn't shock me if I deal doesn't happen but I am betting a deal gets done.  It's too crazy IMO not to get something done.

22 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

You'd think that over the last five years fans would have learned something about the important of physical talent at the QB position.

 

Versus, you know, mental talent.

 

JP Finlay was just on.   He disagrees with Doug's take on Sudfeld in practice.  He doesn't think he's impressed that much.   He said he doesn't think Sudfeld is in the equation about Kirk from the people he has spoken with.  In his view, he's sticking to multiple people in the building like Colt.   And Colt is the guy if they go with a plan B.

[Tsailand]

https://www.ninersnation.com/2017/6/19/15824948/kirk-cousins-washington-contract-extension-franchise-tag-deadline-49ers

 

Is anyone else sick of hearing from 49ers fans on this situation?  It's like you and your wife are going through a real rough patch and her ex-boyfriend keeps talking about divorce laws and how soon until she's single again.

[Conn]

4 hours ago, wilco_holland said:

Let me explain it.

 

We use Nate his amazing two days of practise to leverage Kirk!!!!! Sign this deal now or see how Nate develops. He is such a talent. We could see him beeing something special. So Kirk. Take it oe leave it. 

 

Our new VP is such a smart man! 

 

Except Kirk sees him in practice every day, so if it's not true it's a pretty embarrassing, transparent bluff. They are in direct negotiations with 3 weeks left. Using the media to posture isn't an effective tactic any longer imo.

[goskins10]

45 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

https://www.ninersnation.com/2017/6/19/15824948/kirk-cousins-washington-contract-extension-franchise-tag-deadline-49ers

 

Is anyone else sick of hearing from 49ers fans on this situation?  It's like you and your wife are going through a real rough patch and her ex-boyfriend keeps talking about divorce laws and how soon until she's single again.

 

Not really. They will just have to learn to live with disappointment. Wait, they are 49ers fan, I guess they are already there.

[Supreme Wu]

1 hour ago, Tsailand said:

https://www.ninersnation.com/2017/6/19/15824948/kirk-cousins-washington-contract-extension-franchise-tag-deadline-49ers

 

Is anyone else sick of hearing from 49ers fans on this situation?  It's like you and your wife are going through a real rough patch and her ex-boyfriend keeps talking about divorce laws and how soon until she's single again.

 

It's annoying. look at any Bryce Harper highlight and look at all the comments "future yankee!" "#pinstripes" etc.

 

How about keep it in your pants until it happens.

[Tsailand]

2 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Using the media to posture isn't an effective tactic any longer imo.

 

Maybe their hope is to win with the fans.  It's OK that we lost Kirk, we have future HOFer Nate Sudafed ready to go!

[goskins10]

So the NFL has prolonged our agony another 2 days!  http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000816363/article/nfl-moves-deadline-to-sign-franchisetagged-players

 

Franchise Tag signing date has been moved to July 17th. I am sure some will need to get additional meds to make it....

 

[Rex Tomb]

^^^ OMG! 

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

So DW compliments a young player and it gets turned into him (DW) trying to use Nate's OTA performance as leverage against KC? You mother****ers have lost your collective goddamn minds. 

 

Love the passion but you people (yes YOU PEOPLE) read way too much into things. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

I honestly don't know if they thought it would be leverage or not. I wouldn't put it past them to think something that foolish. It makes you wonder why go out of the way to praise third string QB at this time when the praise doesn't match what anyone else has reported.

 

Its laughable tho and I'm sure Kirk and his agent are having a good time over it. Good luck there Skins. 

 

Get this damn thing done already  

[wilco_holland]

I serious doubt if everyone understands that my comment was sarcastic (like 50% of my messages). ???

 

...I do not really believe Doug is leveraging Kirk with Nate "super bowl talent" Sudfeld. His agent would then be rolling on the groud from laughing. 

[goskins10]

On ‎6‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 3:49 PM, Veryoldschool said:

 

This all sounds reasonable to me any rational owner would have wrapped this deal up long ago and our off season would have been a lovefest and instead of a ****athon.  I hope I am pleasantly surprised on or before 7/17 but I think the odds of a deal are more like the reverse, I think there is less than a 20% chance of it happening.

 

This is clearly false. There is a lot to not like about Dan Snyder, but let's keep it to the facts. The fact is this is exactly how every other team in the NFL - yes even the great ones, handle these negotiations. Not going to waste my time going through each one of them. You can look them up.

 

Last years Von Miller negotiations are the perfect example. In fact those negotiations were not handled as professionally as the Redskins and Kirk's team are handling them. The negotiations played out in the media, unlike this where both sides are keeping it behind closed doors. At exactly this point last year, The Broncos were $38M in guaranteed money away from Von Miller with the Broncos threatening to pull their offer and make Miller play on the tag. They actually gave him an ultimatum. Below is an article with the details. Yet, the offer never did get pulled and on July 15th they all made nice and Von Miller signed a very nice contract.

 

http://www.9news.com/sports/nfl/denver-broncos/mike-klis/broncos-break-off-contract-talks-with-von-miller/237274687

 

They have until July 17th to get this done. Deadlines force deals. It's a pretty fundamental part of business negotiations. Based on the known deadline, I am just not sure why people continue to ignore the plain fact that there is absolutely no reason for either side to get a deal done sooner. If I were Kirk's agent, I would not let him sign any contract offered right now. That offer only gets better as the deadline approaches. The team knows that so why would you throw your best or even a close offer now? You have backed yourself into a corner. It's not a complicated concept. It's business negotiations 101.

[Skinsinparadise]

14 hours ago, Tsailand said:

https://www.ninersnation.com/2017/6/19/15824948/kirk-cousins-washington-contract-extension-franchise-tag-deadline-49ers

 

Is anyone else sick of hearing from 49ers fans on this situation?  It's like you and your wife are going through a real rough patch and her ex-boyfriend keeps talking about divorce laws and how soon until she's single again.

 

Yeah that's going to be the bonus for me if this deal gets done and I still think it will get done.  

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

They have until July 17th to get this done. Deadlines force deals. It's a pretty fundamental part of business negotiations. Based on the known deadline, I am just not sure why people continue to ignore the plain fact that there is absolutely no reason for either side to get a deal done sooner. If I were Kirk's agent, I would not let him sign any contract offered right now. That offer only gets better as the deadline approaches. The team knows that so why would you throw your best or even a close offer now? You have backed yourself into a corner. It's not a complicated concept. It's business negotiations 101.

 

Yeah I think if it happens and I think it will it goes down right down to the wire.  If you throw out your highest figure now, what would stop Kirk's agent to hold out and see if they go higher.  You got nothing to lose.  Laconfora said it well yesterday on the radio.

 

[zoony]

"Deadlines force deals"

 

Really wish that phrase had never been put out there.  Painful to keep reading

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

This is patently false. There is a lot to not like about Dan Snyder, but let's keep it to the facts. The fact is this is exactly how every other team in the NFL - yes even the great ones, handle these negotiations. Not going to waste my time going through each one of them. You can look them up.

 

Last years Von Miller negotiations are the perfect example. In fact those negotiations were not handled as professionally as the Redskins and Kirk's team are handling them. The negotiations played out in the media, unlike this where both sides are keeping it behind closed doors. At exactly this point last year, The Broncos were $38M in guaranteed money away from Von Miller with the Broncos threatening to pull their offer and make Miller play on the tag. They actually gave him an ultimatum. Below is an article with the details. Yet, the offer never did get pulled and on July 15th they all made nice and Von Miller signed a very nice contract.

 

http://www.9news.com/sports/nfl/denver-broncos/mike-klis/broncos-break-off-contract-talks-with-von-miller/237274687

 

They have until July 17th to get this done. Deadlines force deals. It's a pretty fundamental part of business negotiations. Based on the known deadline, I am just not sure why people continue to ignore the plain fact that there is absolutely no reason for either side to get a deal done sooner. If I were Kirk's agent, I would not let him sign any contract offered right now. That offer only gets better as the deadline approaches. The team knows that so why would you throw your best or even a close offer now? You have backed yourself into a corner. It's not a complicated concept. It's business negotiations 101.

 

 

 was Von Miller franchised twice?  Also, lets stick to QBs, and lets avoid the term "patently".  It is redundant, not used correctly, and just not so.

 

[Est.1974]

I mocked us to draft Sudfeld so I'm all in with Doug. Who the hell needs a GM when that guy's in town.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I'm with Zoony in relation to the comparisons that keep getting made to other players contract extensions.

 

Those other players aren't quarterbacks or franchised twice.  Even less than stellar, somewhat dysfunctional front offices get out in front of quarterback contracts.  I'd prefer this not be the area in which the Redskins are trailblazers, but here we are.  I still feel confident that Bruce will eventually say 'uncle' and have no choice but to cave to Kirk's command at the last minute.

 

While I don't think Doug was trying to quell the fears of the fanbase by selling Sudfeld, it was certainly awkward timing to talk him up especially considering it appears Doug was on an island in regards to his appraisal of his performance.

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, zoony said:

"Deadlines force deals"

 

Really wish that phrase had never been put out there.  Painful to keep reading

 

 

 was Von Miller franchised twice?  Also, lets stick to QBs, and lets avoid the term "patently".  It is redundant, not used correctly, and just not so.

 

 

You may not like it but it does not make it any less accurate. 6 of the 8 players that have been given the exclusive franchise tag have been done at or very near the deadline with one going past the deadline (Michael Vick was a hold out).

 

Really doesn't matter if he was franchised twice or not or if he is QB or another position. This is about how negotiations as a process work. The second franchise ticket certainly gives Kirk more leverage in terms of numbers, but has no bearing on the process of the negotiations. Same thing with him being a QB vs. any other player. He gives him more negotiating leverage but has no impact on the process and timing.

 

That's the whole point here. There is nothing unique here in terms of the process of negotiations. There is a difference in leverage, but that has nothing to do with the process.

 

Maybe that leverage keeps the deal from happening .But that still has no impact on the process of how negotiations like this work.

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

@goskins10

 

I can't speak for him, but what I take away from his point is that franchising a QB twice and waiting until the last second to potentially get a LTD is uncharted territory.

 

It's the one position where you simply can't be a terd and have to make things right early on to settle everyone down - the player, the team, the fans, everyone. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I've argued on this thread that the Von Miller deal is apples to oranges in some ways to Kirk's situation.  The double franchise is part of it.  Kirk has more leverage arguably than Von did.  However, I don't think it takes away the idea that the odds that the deal goes down is much greater right on top of the deadline versus before it.

 

The beat reporters pessimism about this depending on who is making the point is usually a variation of these three points:  The Redskins don't plan to offer Kirk the perceived market deal, even if they did Kirk might not be interested in taking it, too little too late.

 

I am in the minority on this where I agree with Laconfora's point:  Kirk wants a deal (he has said so repeatedly and I don't buy that he is Bsing) and there really isn't a logical reason for the team to not get it done.  But will see. 

 

[goskins10]

5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

@goskins10

 

I can't speak for him, but what I take away from his point is that franchising a QB twice and waiting until the last second to potentially get a LTD is uncharted territory.

 

It's the one position where you simply can't be a terd and have to make things right early on to settle everyone down - the player, the team, the fans, everyone. 

 

There is a difference between the emotions and the business. Fans are driven by emotions. So fans want this done right now - and I include myself. I would love for this to be done - for it to have been done the first day possible. It would have saved hours of reading and writing comments on ES if nothing else.....  Seriously, I get it.

 

But the people on both sides of the negotiations cannot be driven by emotions. So if you step back from the emotions of it - it's a negotiating process. That process does not change. Only the leverage one side has over the other. So yes, with this being a second tag Kirk definitely has more leverage. But that is not changing the timing. Just means he will get more money than if it was just the first tag.

 

Since people are not interested in the Von Miller - how about Drew Brees - QB and tagged twice. He actually won a court case that meant if NO gave him the tag in 2013 it would actually be his 3rd meaning the tag that NO gave him in 2012 was in fact his 2nd - it was of course since SD had tagged him in 2005. They got a deal done July 13th, 3 days before the deadline.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82a4cacf/article/drew-brees-wins-franchisetag-grievance-vs-nfl-saints

 

 

Brees at the 2013 Pro Bowl

On July 13, the Saints and Brees agreed to a 5-year, $100 million contract. The contract had the largest amount of guaranteed money in NFL history, at $60 million. $40 million of the contract was paid the first year.^[77]

 

[SkinssRvA]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

You may not like it but it does not make it any less accurate. 6 of the 8 players that have been given the exclusive franchise tag have been done at or very near the deadline with one going past the deadline (Michael Vick was a hold out).

 

Really doesn't matter if he was franchised twice or not or if he is QB or another position. This is about how negotiations as a process work. The second franchise ticket certainly gives Kirk more leverage in terms of numbers, but has no bearing on the process of the negotiations. Same thing with him being a QB vs. any other player. He gives him more negotiating leverage but has no impact on the process and timing.

 

That's the whole point here. There is nothing unique here in terms of the process of negotiations. There is a difference in leverage, but that has nothing to do with the process.

 

Maybe that leverage keeps the deal from happening .But that still has no impact on the process of how negotiations like this work.

 

 

You are saying that Kirk has more leverage (arguably) than any other player before him (at the most important position in sports) and that has no effect when it comes to negotiations?  Just want to make sure I'm reading it right.  

[goskins10]

1 minute ago, SkinssRvA said:

You are saying that Kirk has more leverage (arguably) than any other player before him (at the most important position in sports) and that has no effect when it comes to negotiations?  Just want to make sure I'm reading it right.  

 

Not sure why this is so difficult - it has no impact on the timing. Of course it has an impact on the numbers and the final contract. I have stated so numerous times including the comment you quoted.