oraphus Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 This could get interesting.... Cousins could make an argument for a higher salary since he ranked better then Carr in every category other then wins. This could get interesting.... Cousins could make an argument for a higher salary since he ranked better then Carr in every category other then wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, oraphus said: This could get interesting.... Cousins could make an argument for a higher salary since he ranked better then Carr in every category other then wins. This could get interesting.... Cousins could make an argument for a higher salary since he ranked better then Carr in every category other then wins. Except for, you know, TD and INT, but, you know, YARDS is everything apparently. 1 hour ago, TheGreek1973 said: First: We don't sign Cousins and he produces the average between season 2015 and 2016. The dude absolutely will get picked up for at least 26 plus million per with 80 plus guaranteed if not from us but from someone else. If that's what he produces, then those are fringe top ten numbers maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortisBetts Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 lets see what the guarantees are on Carr's contract. That will be where we should be at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible_Red40 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Even tho kirk is slated to make more next year "if tagged", I don't think their party can ask for more than Carr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 ^^ yep... Would Carr getting 5 yr/$125 mil with $65 mil guaranteed be better than Cousins getting 3 yr/$70 mil and all of it is guaranteed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible_Red40 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, Califan007 said: ^^ yep... Would Carr getting 5 yr/$125 mil with $65 mil guaranteed be better than Cousins getting 3 yr/$70 mil and all of it is guaranteed? As a player what would Kirk prefer? As the FO what would they prefer? As a fan, what would we prefer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 14 minutes ago, PortisBetts said: lets see what the guarantees are on Carr's contract. That will be where we should be at. Not sure if this is all guaranteed, but it's reported that contract has $75 mil over first 3 years... 5 minutes ago, Audible_Red40 said: As a player what would Kirk prefer? As the FO what would they prefer? As a fan, what would we prefer? Kirk could hit free agency again when he's 32 and having made $90 mil over the last 4 years... FO pays $22.5 mil/yr average over same timespan and gets Cousins for 3 more seasons minimum... fans get get to put off their ****ing for a few more seasons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 32 minutes ago, Califan007 said: I wonder which side that benefits more?...or maybe both equally.. I was just thinking about it, hard call for me either way. Now as to some of the critics on this process, its an interesting development because both sides could take something from it. A. Some of Bruce's critics among the media suggest that he is a bit of a stuck in the mud and perhaps doesn't understand the QB market and or prides himself on being cheap and doesn't get that while that approach works at times, it doesn't work here where he has no leverage. And, the team seeing what other QBs who are arguably comparable get contract wise will bring home that they are off about all of this. B. You got some suggesting that Kirk's agent wants to get every penny and play off of every inch of leverage he has. If so, he will use this to his advantage in negotiating where he'd argue that Kirk's numbers are better on a number of fronts over Carr. For me personally, I guess I got an odd position compared to most. I do not blame Kirk for trying to get every penny he can. I am willing to pay Kirk a big contract. I don't blame Bruce for how long this has taken. I will blame the organization big time IF they ultimately don't get this done. If I had to land somewhere on this, I'd say Carr getting a contract done will help move this contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theTruthTeller Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Carr is entering the fourth year of his rookie contract, and is currently under contract to get salary and bonuses of about $1.2M this year. If he signs a LTD at $25M/year for 5 years, its really like signing a $29.6M/year contract, because the Raiders are letting him off of the last year of his rookie contract. Given the same contract, Kirk would only get an additional $1M in 2017. So this is a huge win for Kirk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: For me personally, I guess I got an odd position compared to most. I do not blame Kirk for trying to get every penny he can. I am willing to pay Kirk a big contract. I don't blame Bruce for how long this has taken. I will blame the organization big time IF they ultimately don't get this done. If I had to land somewhere on this, I'd say Carr getting a contract done will help move this contract. I agree...would think it makes Allen and Snyder at least a little more willing to spend the cash...can you imagine if they had already signed Cousins to $25 mil/yr and Carr signs for $23 mil/yr?...same of course for Cousin's agent, just in the other direction. 8 minutes ago, theTruthTeller said: Carr is entering the fourth year of his rookie contract, and is currently under contract to get salary and bonuses of about $1.2M this year. If he signs a LTD at $25M/year for 5 years, its really like signing a $29.6M/year contract, because the Raiders are letting him off of the last year of his rookie contract. Given the same contract, Kirk would only get an additional $1M in 2017. So this is a huge win for Kirk. What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Per Keim: Derek Carr's potential new contract is good news for any QB seeking a new deal -- like Washington's Kirk Cousins. Worth approximately $25 million per year, Carr's deal certainly raises the bar, but it's one the Redskins were unlikely to hit anyway. And Cousins' goal hasn't been to become the highest-paid passer, but rather to be paid commensurate with his leverage, starting at his tag number of $23.9 million. If the Redskins hit that, with the right guarantees, it has a shot at leading to a deal -- regardless of Carr's average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shmohawk Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Sadly, so true. #bungled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, shmohawk said: Sadly, so true. #bungled Only talks about what it "cost" the Redskins, not about what they gained...any "best case scenario" should also include what they gained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 15 minutes ago, Califan007 said: I agree...would think it makes Allen and Snyder at least a little more willing to spend the cash...can you imagine if they had already signed Cousins to $25 mil/yr and Carr signs for $23 mil/yr?...same of course for Cousin's agent, just in the other direction. What? I think he's assuming the team bought out his final year of his rookie contract which I don't think is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shmohawk Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Califan007 said: Only talks about what it "cost" the Redskins, not about what they gained...any "best case scenario" should also include what they gained. What did the Redskins gain by waiting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 4 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said: You can quibble a bit with a few of these guys, but this is essentially where Cousins ranks in the eyes of players and the eyes of a lot of GMs. And so the Redskins COMPLETELY screwed themselves by tagging him last year, locking him into a negotiation for top 5 money for a non-top 5 QB. Most players are idiots, and the top 100 is a popularity contest. I'm not sure if Kirk is really a top 5 QB yet, but I know he has the potential for it, and so does he. If I were Kirk, I wouldn't sign anything. Play on the tag, force us to tag him again, play on that tag too. Keep studying film and getting game experience so that he hits the open market in 2019 as the top free agent in NFL history. But, if he is soft-hearted enough to sign with us, he'd be smart to make it a four year deal, making him a free agent after the 2020 season, when the CBA expires and Gruden's contract ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 16 minutes ago, shmohawk said: What did the Redskins gain by waiting? They gain a player they consider a franchise QB without any concerns or doubts about his ability to play consistently at the level they expect. Because they didn't actually have Cousins beyond 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 9 minutes ago, shmohawk said: What did the Redskins gain by waiting? Certainty. Instead of sinking 20 million a year on a player with a short resume as starter, they will be spending 24ish million a year on a player they know is the real deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 8 minutes ago, elkabong82 said: Certainty. Instead of sinking 20 million a year on a player with a short resume as starter, they will be spending 24ish million a year on a player they know is the real deal. They also gained a certain level of certainty in terms of their future cap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theTruthTeller Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 21 minutes ago, Califan007 said: What? What don't you understand? Carr is replacing a year in which he is contractually obligated to play for a $1.2M salary with a (prorated) $25M salary, and getting four more years at $25M. If Cousins got the same contract, it would replace a year in which he is contractually obligated to play for $24M with a $25M salary and he would get four more years at $25M. If both signed the same contract, Carr does $22.8M better than Kirk. Or looking at it a different way, Oakland is stepping up to the plate to sign Carr a year before they have to. It will cost them $23.8 to do so. Maybe its stupid, or maybe they don't want a Kirk Cousins problem on their hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 13 minutes ago, shmohawk said: What did the Redskins gain by waiting? You are making the assumption that it's all on the Redskins that there is not a deal in place. While that's the popular narrative we actually have no way of knowing. The demands right now could be extraordinary. More importantly, there is no way his agent should let him sign anything until the deadline. That's when they will get the redskins best deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 7 minutes ago, theTruthTeller said: What don't you understand? Carr is replacing a year in which he is contractually obligated to play for a $1.2M salary with a (prorated) $25M salary, and getting four more years at $25M. If Cousins got the same contract, it would replace a year in which he is contractually obligated to play for $24M with a $25M salary and he would get four more years at $25M. If both signed the same contract, Carr does $22.8M better than Kirk. Or looking at it a different way, Oakland is stepping up to the plate to sign Carr a year before they have to. It will cost them $23.8 to do so. Maybe its stupid, or maybe they don't want a Kirk Cousins problem on their hands. How is any of that "really like signing a $29.6M/year contract"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Califan007 said: They also gained a certain level of certainty in terms of their future cap... I think Carr deal sets the ceiling on Kirk's deal too. IMO the two are fairly even in terms of production with an edge to Kirk, but Carr is 3 years younger. Whatever Carr gets, Kirk should get around the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theTruthTeller Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, Califan007 said: How is any of that "really like signing a $29.6M/year contract"? Let me do the math for you: (25*5+23.8)/5 = 29.76 Sorry I was off by a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Doesn't it seem strange that Carr would sign a deal (assuming it's this week) before waiting a couple more weeks to see what Cousins gets? The last contract is almost always bigger. Unless the view around the league is that we aren't getting a deal done, this doesn't really make sense. Cousins has a deadline so he can't wait for Carr's deal--Carr doesn't have that restriction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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