ESPN.com: Kirk Cousins contract talks with Redskins on positive track

[HTTRDynasty]

PFT is reporting that according to "multiple sources" Carr received $40m guaranteed at signing.

This ranks him 6th among QBs, behind

1) Rodgers - $54m
2) Luck - $47m
3) Flacco - $44m
4) Ryan - $42m
5) Newton - $41m

[markmills67]

Just sign the man Allen 

 

HTTR 

[RabidFan]

Momma always said Frugal is as Frugal does

[Stadium-Armory]

I also think Carr wanted to stay with the Raiders badly. Their front office and team personality dynamics are different, sadly.

[SkinsPassion4Life]

I was  say 5 yrs, 120 mil; with 80 mil guaranteed...similar to what Carr got.

 

I would offer that deal...maybe can get him for a bit less...75 mil guaranteed or 115 mil?

 

Or.....

 

Offer him a 3 years, 75 mil...fully guaranteed.....40 mil signing bonus

[nonniey]

5 hours ago, bowhunter said:

While we all agree that Kirk does in fact have a lot of leverage, while the Skins have little. I really haven't seen much dialogue about the huge risk that Kirk is carrying. Yes, he's betting on his passer ratings having high scores. But lets not forget that this is a contact sport. What happens if he receives 2 concussions this year? Tears an ACL? Rotator cuff injury from a flawed golf swing? Kirk has the opportunity to set his family up for generations, yet he also has the opportunity to squander that guaranteed security with a desire to squeeze an extra million or two out of the deal. If he chooses to become a free agent next year, he is also gambling on the hope that he won't be one concussion away from mandatory retirement. Such a scenario certainly puts his "leverage" at a disadvantage, whether it be negotiating with us or someone else. Every contract involves a gamble by both parties involved, and leverage is a relative term.

No doubt he has an insurance policy in place that mitigates the risk.

[oraphus]

1 hour ago, Stadium-Armory said:

I also think Carr wanted to stay with the Raiders badly. Their front office and team personality dynamics are different, sadly.

 

it doesn't matter what the dynamics are.. it about bottom dollar. At the end of the day i believe most think that Raiders won on that deal with less then expected guarantees, which in turn is good for Skins in their efforts to sign Cousins since most believe Carr is better then Cousins.

[Gregpeck99]

Carr's signing sets a floor for Kirk ... its the ceiling I'm worried about.

[clskinsfan]

2 hours ago, Stadium-Armory said:

I also think Carr wanted to stay with the Raiders badly. Their front office and team personality dynamics are different, sadly.

 

Doesnt really matter in the end. He set the market for a very similar QB but with even better TD and INT numbers than Kirk. If they offer him the exact same deal and he turns it down we know Kirk doesnt want to be here and we can move on.

 

1 hour ago, Gregpeck99 said:

Carr's signing sets a floor for Kirk ... its the ceiling I'm worried about.

 

I dont know how Carr's contract would be considered a floor for Cousins. Carr is a better and younger QB. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

29 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

I dont know how Carr's contract would be considered a floor for Cousins. Carr is a better and younger QB. 

Who's better is a judgment call but Cousins market was set the moment the Redskins opted to tag him a 2nd time. 

[Conn]

I like Carr. If I could pick either one straight up, would I gamble on Carr's perceived ceiling and youth over Cousins? Probably, if I'm being honest.

 

But I don't know that we can definitively say he's better than Cousins just because he threw more TDs and less INT last year. 

 

Carr consistently having a bottom YPA since he entered the league would give me pause that he will grow into the kind of guy who can take over a game consistently--the perception is that he's a gunslinger because he's got a strong arm, but one of his biggest flaws is that he plays too conservatively, in relation to his arm and his weapons. That's shown by his bottom-5 YPA last year and bottom-10 YPA the year before. Despite having great outside WR options in Cooper and Crabtree and a top-5 OL. 

 

Kirk might make some dumb throws (though I think those throws will jive better with the WRs  we have now) but he also makes some incredibly clutch big plays. 

 

Cousins is streakier than Carr but has a longer resume of big throws imo (and I don't just mean deep balls, I mean tough impressive throws that make you go 'wow').

 

It's not perfect but the guys who make these plays the most are, to my eye, the more impactful talents across the league. Right now imo that's Kirk rather than Carr. Though it's hard to measure the synergy each have with their respective offenses so who knows how much that plays a part. There is a temptation to call Cousins a "system QB" type because he's not perceived as a big arm playmaker, but I don't think that's fair and the efficiency metrics show that Carr is actually the more conservative dink-and-dunker even though he threw more TDs. 

 

But Carr is younger and his skill-set and decision-making give him a higher ceiling imo, so I can see preferring him. But people are anointing him as something he isn't yet. Unlike Luck who gets a lot of "overhyped" accusations but even with his flaws and injuries consistently makes wow throws at a high rate, going back to his rookie year. 

[Tsailand]

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

 If they offer him the exact same deal and he turns it down we know Kirk doesnt want to be here and we can move on.

 

Nope, we would just know that Kirk wants more money.  Kirk is going to be here this year with or without a deal, and he's going to be here next year if the team wants him to be here.

 

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

I dont know how Carr's contract would be considered a floor for Cousins.

 

Because Cousins is two years closer to free agency and has shown he is willing to play on the franchise tag.  He already has enough money banked to last the rest of his life.  Carr is coming off a serious injury and has only earned a few million.

[Est.1974]

I would be very surprised if Kirk signed a deal with 'only' 40mil fully gtd.

[PartyPosse]

22 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

Because Cousins is two years closer to free agency and has shown he is willing to play on the franchise tag.  He already has enough money banked to last the rest of his life.  Carr is coming off a serious injury and has only earned a few million

A broken leg isn't really a serious injury in that there were no tears or muscle/nerve injuries.

 

again the difference between Carr and Cousins is that's Carr made it clear he wants to be there and be part of that foundation. He probably could have gotten more but that's what a leader does. Kirk is trying to suck this franchise dry and I'm still convinced (again, just my opinion) that he holds a personal grudge against this team. 

 

Also, Carr is younger and more successful than Cousins has been. If Kirk expects more than what derek got then hes out of his mind.

57 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

But I don't know that we can definitively say he's better than Cousins just because he threw more TDs and less INT last year. 

And the year before, and the year before.

[Tsailand]

1 minute ago, PartyPosse said:

A broken leg isn't really a serious injury in that there were no tears or muscle/nerve injuries.

 

But it makes him more willing to sign now to get the big paycheck rather than risk everything if he gets injured again.  Kirk can take the risk because he already has made ~$46M, and he's never been hurt.

 

1 minute ago, PartyPosse said:

If Kirk expects more than what derek got then hes out of his mind.

 

If Kirk hit the open market tomorrow, he would get more than Carr got. 

 

If they both hit the open market at the same time, Carr might get more.  But that isn't relevant, because Carr was negotiating while under contract plus facing the possibility of up to three franchise tags beyond that.  Kirk is already on his second tag.  Closer to free agency means more bargaining power for the player.

 

[Conn]

PartyPosse, I don't know why you'd expect anyone to actually engage you on the topic of "how good or mediocre exactly is Kirk Cousins" at this point. You've made your feelings clear over time, and that's fine. But its clear you at the very least you disagree with the vast majority of Redskins fans on the topic (which is not necessarily the same as saying you're wrong, understand--you could turn out to be right). You can keep diving into the debate, but I don't know why everyone else would follow you--the discussion doesn't go anywhere. Its an agree to disagree thing until we have further information, since everyone is working with the same evidence and entrenched in their opinions. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Does anyone here really think Cousins will get offered $30+ Mil/yr next year if he hits free agency?...Sheehan seems to think it's all but certain.

[Conn]

3 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

Does anyone here really think Cousins will get offered $30+ Mil/yr next year if he hits free agency?...Sheehan seems to think it's all but certain.

 

I think its certainly possible, if there are two teams vying for his services and he's the only viable QB on the market (likely) while also actually being very good ( I think we can say that at this point). Right now people assume those two teams would be the Browns and the 49ers, but honestly who knows. I would bet right now, if I had to, that if he ever hits the open market its a record-breaking contract. 

[Tay]

1 minute ago, Califan007 said:

Does anyone here really think Cousins will get offered $30+ Mil/yr next year if he hits free agency?...Sheehan seems to think it's all but certain.

 

I highly doubt he would get 30M/yr. If he get's it, that team will put themselves at a severe disadvantage when trying to build a team around that salary.

 

QB is the most important position in sports, so the demand is high. But if they price themselves too high, I bet more teams would start looking to draft a bunch of guys until one hits and roll with him, on a rookie contract while building a very strong team around that young QB.

 

With the rules favoring offenses more, I believe there are more good young QBs than there have been in the past.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

13 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

I think its certainly possible, if there are two teams vying for his services and he's the only viable QB on the market (likely) while also actually being very good ( I think we can say that at this point). Right now people assume those two teams would be the Browns and the 49ers, but honestly who knows. I would bet right now, if I had to, that if he ever hits the open market its a record-breaking contract. 

 

But that would mean a $5 mil a year jump for no other reason than "who else is available"...I tend to think that front offices structure their contracts not just by "what can we afford" but also by "What do we want to spend on this position". Is there really a team out there who WANTS to spend $30 mil a year (or more) on a QB not named Rodgers?...I highly doubt it.

 

 

12 minutes ago, Tay said:

 

I highly doubt he would get 30M/yr. If he get's it, that team will put themselves at a severe disadvantage when trying to build a team around that salary.

 

QB is the most important position in sports, so the demand is high. But if they price themselves too high, I bet more teams would start looking to draft a bunch of guys until one hits and roll with him, on a rookie contract while building a very strong team around that young QB.

 

With the rules favoring offenses more, I believe there are more good young QBs than there have been in the past.

 

That part in bold is huge...with rookie contracts being so damn affordable I could see teams like the Browns and 49ers being more willing to trade draft picks to move up and get a promising QB with a ton of upside...especially the Browns, who have something like 47 draft picks next year lol...

[Conn]

Just now, Califan007 said:

 

But that would mean a $5 mil a year jump for no other reason than "who else is available"...I tend to think that front offices structure their contracts not just by "what can we afford" but also by "What do we want to spend on this position". Is there really a team out there who WANTS top spend $30 mil a year (or more) on a QB not named Rodgers?...I highly doubt it.

 

I also doubt it, but I think with how high-impact a position is, its possible a team could do it if they feel good enough about the rest of the roster. That's actually why I think it would end up being a surprise contender who is ready to win rather than a rebuild like the Browns or 49ers. But also there will be other extensions by the time he hits  the open market--Stafford, for one, and anyone else who gets paid (I'm not sure if there any other big names in line right now to be honest--maybe I'm off on this part and its just Stafford). 

 

I think its more likely it settles in between $25-27M/year if it gets to that point. But all it takes is a bidding war over the most important position, so who knows.

[goskins10]

10 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

Does anyone here really think Cousins will get offered $30+ Mil/yr next year if he hits free agency?...Sheehan seems to think it's all but certain.

 

Sheehan is just letting of some frustration. No way he or any QB, gets $30M/yr next yr. That would be a 20% increase to the current highest ever salary in one year that was signed today. It's a gross exaggeration. 

 

Kirk will get a deal very similar to Carr's deal. Probably same terms with a little more guaranteed money. 

 

[Tsailand]

10 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

Does anyone here really think Cousins will get offered $30+ Mil/yr next year if he hits free agency?...Sheehan seems to think it's all but certain.

 

I think it's a little high, even for a top-10 QB on the open market.  It could happen if Kirk had a 40 TD 5300 yard season, but that would ensure the Redskins tag him again.

 

The other way it could happen is if it's a six or seven year deal.  $30M is "too much" to pay for a QB in 2018, but you do the cap magic to push the hit down the road, and you're still paying that $30M/year in 2024, now it's a bargain.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

14 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

I also doubt it, but I think with how high-impact a position is, its possible a team could do it if they feel good enough about the rest of the roster. That's actually why I think it would end up being a surprise contender who is ready to win rather than a rebuild like the Browns or 49ers. But also there will be other extensions by the time he hits  the open market--Stafford, for one, and anyone else who gets paid (I'm not sure if there any other big names in line right now to be honest--maybe I'm off on this part and its just Stafford). 

 

I think its more likely it settles in between $25-27M/year if it gets to that point. But all it takes is a bidding war over the most important position, so who knows.

 

I think that's the ceiling for Cousins next year as well (barring Stafford getting a gazillion dollar contract in between now and then like you said). Has there ever been a year where the difference between the top Contract signed by a top 10 QB one year escalated by $5 mil or more for another top 10 QB the following year? (there may have been lol...nothing's coming to mind right now)

 

 

11 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Sheehan is just letting of some frustration. No way he or any QB, gets $30M/yr next yr. That would be a 20% increase to the current highest ever salary in one year that was signed today. It's a gross exaggeration. 

 

Kirk will get a deal very similar to Carr's deal. Probably same terms with a little more guaranteed money. 

 

 

Let's hope it's just Sheehan letting of steam lol...he's anchoring down on "teams like the Browns or 49ers will be offering something around $30 million a year"...I would bet Hue Jackson would never want to spend that much on a QB, especially when they have so many damn draft picks they could use (and especially with their "moneyball" guy in the front office calling the shots...that's something Sheehan just never considers).

[Califan007 The Constipated]

11 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

I think it's a little high, even for a top-10 QB on the open market.  It could happen if Kirk had a 40 TD 5300 yard season, but that would ensure the Redskins tag him again.

 

The other way it could happen is if it's a six or seven year deal.  $30M is "too much" to pay for a QB in 2018, but you do the cap magic to push the hit down the road, and you're still paying that $30M/year in 2024, now it's a bargain.

 

A $30 mil/yr contract that's not really a $30 mil/yr contract...eh, yeah that could happen, I could see something like that maybe.

 

By the way...do you think the owners and GMs around the league collude on these massive top salaries to a certain extent? I know it's illegal but c'maaan lol...this is a billion dollar industry. Allen gets a text to a burner phone that just says "25" like a week before Carr is signed or something lol...he responds with "24?"...gets a response of "starts next year"...Allen thinks on it a bit and responds "Ok"...