bowhunter Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 While we all agree that Kirk does in fact have a lot of leverage, while the Skins have little. I really haven't seen much dialogue about the huge risk that Kirk is carrying. Yes, he's betting on his passer ratings having high scores. But lets not forget that this is a contact sport. What happens if he receives 2 concussions this year? Tears an ACL? Rotator cuff injury from a flawed golf swing? Kirk has the opportunity to set his family up for generations, yet he also has the opportunity to squander that guaranteed security with a desire to squeeze an extra million or two out of the deal. If he chooses to become a free agent next year, he is also gambling on the hope that he won't be one concussion away from mandatory retirement. Such a scenario certainly puts his "leverage" at a disadvantage, whether it be negotiating with us or someone else. Every contract involves a gamble by both parties involved, and leverage is a relative term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible_Red40 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Holy crap, I just read all that and my head hurts from math. Let's just hope Carr signs soon so we can move on to talking about Cousins upcoming contract or something. I'll tell you one thing, I'm glad I don't make $29.8M dollars a year.........oh wait, sore head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJ Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 There is no state tax in Nevada so consider that a bonus in any Carr deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 1 hour ago, bowhunter said: While we all agree that Kirk does in fact have a lot of leverage, while the Skins have little. I really haven't seen much dialogue about the huge risk that Kirk is carrying. Yes, he's betting on his passer ratings having high scores. But lets not forget that this is a contact sport. What happens if he receives 2 concussions this year? Tears an ACL? Rotator cuff injury from a flawed golf swing? Kirk has the opportunity to set his family up for generations, yet he also has the opportunity to squander that guaranteed security with a desire to squeeze an extra million or two out of the deal. If he chooses to become a free agent next year, he is also gambling on the hope that he won't be one concussion away from mandatory retirement. Such a scenario certainly puts his "leverage" at a disadvantage, whether it be negotiating with us or someone else. Every contract involves a gamble by both parties involved, and leverage is a relative term. All very good points. Kirk has a lot at risk here, probably more than the team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MariusVT Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 If carr gets 25, cousin's price goes up because that's just the trend these days. Probably take 26-27m per to sign him if Carr's deal is done first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purbeast Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 2 hours ago, bowhunter said: While we all agree that Kirk does in fact have a lot of leverage, while the Skins have little. I really haven't seen much dialogue about the huge risk that Kirk is carrying. Yes, he's betting on his passer ratings having high scores. But lets not forget that this is a contact sport. What happens if he receives 2 concussions this year? Tears an ACL? Rotator cuff injury from a flawed golf swing? Kirk has the opportunity to set his family up for generations, yet he also has the opportunity to squander that guaranteed security with a desire to squeeze an extra million or two out of the deal. If he chooses to become a free agent next year, he is also gambling on the hope that he won't be one concussion away from mandatory retirement. Such a scenario certainly puts his "leverage" at a disadvantage, whether it be negotiating with us or someone else. Every contract involves a gamble by both parties involved, and leverage is a relative term. Kirk could also have a career ending injury and still have his family + generations set for life. He will have $44 million dollars for at most 2 years worth of work if that were to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Listening to Colt right now on air. Granted he could be holding back but he doesn't sound that way to me, the dude praised Kirk left and right. Doesn't sound like there is a wit of acrimony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tay Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 If Carr's deal is like Luck's it will be an extension, which will sum to $25M per year not the near $30M in the calculation above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Looks like it's an extension that doesn't replace Carr's upcoming cheap rookie deal year. This whole tangent was for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible_Red40 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Well there you have it, nothing less will get Cousins signing. Hold on to your seats folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mayor of Fed Ex Field Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Since the Franchise Tag is an average of the top 5 salaries at that position, doesn't Kirk's number go up now? Or is locked in because he already signed it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters20 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Kirks now pushing for 24-25. I don't think there's any way he gets an avg of 26. At least not from this team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tay Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Carr just signed a market value extension. It will have little to no impact on Kirk's contract situation. The only part of the deal that'll be interesting is the fully/total guarantees in the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 So Carr will be averaging $21M a year over the next 6 years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 3 hours ago, bowhunter said: What happens if he receives 2 concussions this year? Tears an ACL? Rotator cuff injury from a flawed golf swing? 1) No contract he signs will do the slightest thing to reduce the chances of a season ending or career ending injury. The most it could do is give him a big payday right before the injury. 2) He can buy insurance on himself which does the same thing, and without tying him into a below-market contract. 3) Kirk is one of the least-hit QBs out there. Anything can happen to anyone, but he does a great job of minimizing his risk. 4) Kirk has put together enough of a resume so far that a season-ending injury would just be a speed bump in his career earnings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Derek Carr's 5-yr deal maxes at $125M. Includes $40M full guarantee at signing and injury guarantee of $70M at signing. $69M due in 1st 3yrs -LaCanfora i think a 3-yr, $70M fully guaranteed offer would git 'er dunn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tay Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 13 minutes ago, Califan007 said: Derek Carr's 5-yr deal maxes at $125M. Includes $40M full guarantee at signing and injury guarantee of $70M at signing. $69M due in 1st 3yrs -LaCanfora i think a 3-yr, $70M fully guaranteed offer would git 'er dunn... That's interesting. $40M fully guaranteed. That's possibly the exact same guarantees initially offered to Kirk (if it was fully) that many local media members said was insulting. My assumption is the $40M offered to Kirk was on an extension, which essentially guarantees $64M ($40 + $24). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJ Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 2 hours ago, MariusVT said: If carr gets 25, cousin's price goes up because that's just the trend these days. Probably take 26-27m per to sign him if Carr's deal is done first. I have to agree. Hope we are wrong but.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tay Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 7 minutes ago, RWJ said: I have to agree. Hope we are wrong but.... Carr's AAV is 1.7% higher than Luck's even though he signed the deal 1 year later where the salary cap increased 7.6%. Carr's deal is essentially weaker than Luck's. This deal does not change the market. It's a smaller % of cap at signing, less fully guaranteed and less total guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 11 minutes ago, Tay said: That's interesting. $40M fully guaranteed. That's possibly the exact same guarantees initially offered to Kirk (if it was fully) that many local media members said was insulting. My assumption is the $40M offered to Kirk was on an extension, which essentially guarantees $64M ($40 + $24). I didn't think you could extend on a franchise tag designation, that by default you either play under the tag or sign a new contract and play under that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tay Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Just now, Califan007 said: I didn't think you could extend on a franchise tag designation, that by default you either play under the tag or sign a new contract and play under that. You could rip the franchise and essentially make it the first year of the deal. The reported offer for the new contract was a 5 year deal w/ $40 guaranteed, but the contract expired after 6 years, so it was an extension offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar1156 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 If the guranteed money is only $70 million I think that's good for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinInsite Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 70 mil for 3 year is basically what Kirk would earn if he doesn't sign and get tagged next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tay Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 I may be off, but I think Kirk wants to sign a long term deal. I think his agent wants to Max the fully guaranteed amount. I think the team knows this, but will not continue to bid against itself, so they'll wait until the deadline to give "best offer". Until then the conversations in the media will be all over the place, but we won't know anything until the deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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