ESPN.com: Kirk Cousins contract talks with Redskins on positive track

[wit33]

6 hours ago, Tsailand said:

 

I have the same information everyone except you has: Multiple insiders familiar with last year's negotiations leaked that Kirk was willing to sign a three year deal worth $19.5M/year, but Bruce Allen was not.  This leak must have come from Kirk's agent, because it makes their side look good.  The Redskins have not leaked a competing narrative, because the initial leak was true.

 

If you're waiting for a signed statement from Kirk and Bruce about what happened last year, you'll be waiting forever. 

 

I've heard this, but still don't consider it to be factual, and the most important number is the signing bonus. 

[Taylor 36]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

 

I've heard this, but still don't consider it to be factual, and the most important number is the signing bonus. 

The most important number is the overall guaranteed money, which the signing bonus is only a part of.

[wit33]

1 hour ago, Taylor 36 said:

The most important number is the overall guaranteed money, which the signing bonus is only a part of.

 

Thats the word I was looking for lol.

 

Yes, you're right!

[SkinssRvA]

This whole situation is an agent's wet dream.  I just can't see them agreeing to a deal at this point when the potential for so much more money is there at the end of next season.  I've grown sour on this deal happening, recently, and the more I think about it the more sense it makes from a player's perspective to just play this year out and be the first QB in their prime to ever hit unrestricted free agency.  

[theTruthTeller]

3 minutes ago, SkinssRvA said:

This whole situation is an agent's wet dream.  I just can't see them agreeing to a deal at this point when the potential for so much more money is there at the end of next season.  I've grown sour on this deal happening, recently, and the more I think about it the more sense it makes from a player's perspective to just play this year out and be the first QB in their prime to ever hit unrestricted free agency.  

This is the craziest negotiation ever.  The FO has only one weapon - using the tag to force Kirk take more than he's asking for - and they keep using it again and again.  I think they actually may be stupid enough to tag him next year.

[SkinssRvA]

21 minutes ago, theTruthTeller said:

This is the craziest negotiation ever.  The FO has only one weapon - using the tag to force Kirk take more than he's asking for - and they keep using it again and again.  I think they actually may be stupid enough to tag him next year.

For two offseasons now we have completely blundered this whole ordeal.  Good front offices don't make these kinds of mistakes.  This team hasn't had a top QB in their prime in decades. so OF COURSE when we get one we refuse to sign him and get stuck franchising him over and over with loads of uncertainty.  One agent described this as the "Holy Grail" of situations (for both player and agent).  So that means on the opposite side of things it's literally the worst possible scenario to be in from a team's perspective.  

 

When the two words/phrases "first time in NFL history" and "Redskins" are linked in the same sentence, you can almost guarantee we ****ed it up.  

[Veryoldschool]

The Skins either extend Kirk, at whatever price gets it done for 5 with an option for another 5 so we don't have to go through this nonsense again, or they slide down to 4-12 oblivion in 2018.  I'll be be gone but some of you guys will be spun up and all in for Snyder's next Mr. Wonderful campaign and be played for a couple of "Wonderful" jerseys because that the way Skin falls roll.  It doesn't matter how much it costs them for Cousins they will suck again without him.  

[elkabong82]

Really guys, this is the worst negotiation ever? Please. Stop acting like Kirk isn't a unique situation. When's the last time a back up QB turned into a top 10 QB later in his career and was then up for a big contract? When's the last time a player was due a big, big money contract with such a short resume of success? These things are important to the decision-making process and you all are ignoring it. I get it, we're all frustrated and want Kirk signed. Doesn't mean we need to twist the reality of the situation.

 

Hindsight certainly is a benefit. But actually put yourselves in the shoes of the decision makers. They just had to move on from a bust in RG3 and lost major onvestments in draft picks as well as millions on the extension. They even saw division rival QB Nick Foles literally be a 1 year wonder. Kirk himself had half a season of great play. Yet some of you still want to pretend that no LTD for Kirk after '15 had no merits at all, that it was an irrational decision. Sorry to burst your narrative, but it was a reasonable decision given the short resume and what the team had literally just gone through with the prior QB. 

 

Now if we don't get the LTD done by July 15th this year it is a massive fail, definitely. But as of right now the process is following the same as it does with big nae players looking for a big deal. Von Miller was far more uncertain situtation and tons of reports came out about animosity with the FO during the negotiations. Look what is going on with Leveon Bell right now. Hasn't even signed his tender and can't do OTAs, and people are concerned he may holdout. Their have been players who have sat out games. Heck, back in '97 we had Sean Gilbert sit out the entire season. Emmit SMith missed 2 games holding out. http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/gallery/joey-bosa-holdout-chargers-nfl-contract-dispute-list-revis-chancellor-emmitt-smith-jamarcus-081516

 

[PartyPosse]

19 hours ago, Tsailand said:

 

Yeah, but we'd still have the right of first refusal on any contract he signs elsewhere.

 

Also, why wouldn't he sign the transition offer sheet?  One year $28.7M, and he can still negotiate with other teams.

If he doesn't want to be a redskin and just wants to move in with his bff Kyle.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[skinsmarydu]

 

5 hours ago, SkinssRvA said:

When the two words/phrases "first time in NFL history" and "Redskins" are linked in the same sentence, you can almost guarantee we ****ed it up.  

I really try to stay positive, but if that isn't hitting the nail on the head, I don't know what is.

We have no other options.  Everyone knows this.  Put a deal together, and lock him down.  If Doug wants to go all in, I'm mighty fine with that.

[Veryoldschool]

6 hours ago, theTruthTeller said:

This is the craziest negotiation ever.  The FO has only one weapon - using the tag to force Kirk take more than he's asking for - and they keep using it again and again.  I think they actually may be stupid enough to tag him next year.

 

LOL!!!  And Snyder expects different result when he repeats the process....  

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said:

 

I really try to stay positive, but if that isn't hitting the nail on the head, I don't know what is.

We have no other options.  Everyone knows this.  Put a deal together, and lock him down.  If Doug wants to go all in, I'm mighty fine with that.

 

Doug though keeps doubling down that he hasn't participated in the negotiations thus far so he isn't going to kick in now because he doesn't want to interfere.  He's explicitly said its all Schaffer and Bruce. 

[Veryoldschool]

It looks like Doug Williams got promoted so he can be the face of disappointment and provide additional shielding for Snyder when the Skins fail to close Cousins.  Allen's usefulness as a heat shield for Snyder is diminishing after the SM debacle and won't shield Snyder from the megatons of criticism and ridicule that is going to heading Snyder's way when belly flops so Snyder has puts affable Doug Williams out in front.

[BleedBNG]

On 6/14/2017 at 11:08 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

They just went about 9-7 last year (close enough to it) with one of the hardest schedules in the NFL and with arguably the worst defense in the NFL.  Yeah somehow I don't think 7-9, 9-7 is Kirk's ceiling.  If they just had an average defense last year they'd likely have been 11-5. 

 

I don't know how you can say lets take out 2012 and if so then its been 12 years since they used a #1.  How many times are teams supposed to take shots at the well?  Redskins have taken more than their fair number of shots.  They drafted four quarterbacks in the first round in the last 23 years.  They spent 3 first rounders on RG3, if I recall three picks to trade up for JC while taking Ramsey and Shuler straight up with their #1 picks.  They traded a 2nd and a 4th for McNabb and a 3rd for Brunell.   It's been reported they tried to use their #1 pick plus trade up and get Mark Sanchez but got outbid and ditto for Jay Cutler.

 

But lets go on that ride again next year( it might be fun), lets see what gem we can land in the mid first  to each their own but that's a cringe worthy journey for me.  

 

Now that would be nice... 11-5 or better. He would be the first Redskins QB in the last 25 years to help get us to that ever elusive 11 wins. In fact I'll even add this to my "I was totally wrong" 100 times list. I will say that since '92 he has been my favorite Redskins QB. At least he helps win the games we should win. That's been different. 

Your right, I should have just said in the last 4 years because we needed one by 2012. The other 2 were Vinny picks and I'm still  at Casserly and Turner for picking Shuler over Dilfer. For me it doesn't feel like a lot of shots at the well. It feels more like just a one hit wonder over the last 4. As I said before, if KC doesn't sign, whether it be a not good enough deal or he likes to continue playing tag, picking up a QB next year will be a critical position for the first round like it was 4 years ago. If he does sign (I'm sure it's heading that way), then it's Redskins first and 100% behind KC taking us as far as this team will help him to go every year.

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, BleedBNG said:

The other 2 were Vinny picks and I'm still  at Casserly and Turner for picking Shuler over Dilfer.

Come on. It's not like Dilfer wasn't a bust. Neither he nor heath were good picks no matter who went where.

[BleedBNG]

43 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Come on. It's not like Dilfer wasn't a bust. Neither he nor heath were good picks no matter who went where.

 

Shuler lasted 2 years. Dilfer won a SB (yes I know their D was very good but we were also pretty damn good by '99) in his 6th. At least he would have been around longer for Turner to develop.

[PartyPosse]

24 minutes ago, BleedBNG said:

 

Shuler lasted 2 years. Dilfer won a SB (yes I know their D was very good but we were also pretty damn good by '99) in his 6th. At least he would have been around longer for Turner to develop.

True, he was a much better pick than Shuler. Also, considering how terrible that '94 draft was they did pretty well for themselves. HOWEVER, the Redskins had the last laugh in nabbing Gus in the 7th.

 

Weird that Frerotte ended up with at the top of the list of that draft for TD passes, yards, Rating and rushing TDs for QBs in that entire draft.

[goskins10]

15 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

True, he was a much better pick than Shuler. Also, considering how terrible that '94 draft was they did pretty well for themselves. HOWEVER, the Redskins had the last laugh in nabbing Gus in the 7th.

 

Weird that Frerotte ended up with at the top of the list of that draft for TD passes, yards, Rating and rushing TDs for QBs in that entire draft.

 

Not sure I would call getting a guy who decided to head butt the stadium - winning anything.   

[Dark Acre]

8 hours ago, elkabong82 said:

Heck, back in '97 we had Sean Gilbert sit out the entire season. Emmit SMith missed 2 games holding out

 

The Gilbutt sitting was a blessing in disguise.  Emmitt's holdout gave us one of the few bright spots in '93.

3 hours ago, BleedBNG said:

 

Now that would be nice... 11-5 or better. He would be the first Redskins QB in the last 25 years to help get us to that ever elusive 11 wins.

Wow, it has been 25 years since we had more than 10 wins (that magical 1991 season).  I think we have the longest streak for most seasons with less than 11 wins, and that includes Cleveland and Buffalo.

 

Let that sink in before deciding whether re-signing the only QB who has given us back-to-back 4,000+ yard seasons is worth it.

 

Oh hell, just cut him loose and turn it over to Sudfeld.  He's tall.

[Stefanskins]

On 6/15/2017 at 10:30 AM, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

So... you like Kirk's juicy plump blueberries, huh?

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Ah yes, Ric Flair's classic "Fresh 'N Juicy Plums" promo leading into Great American Bash '87.

[SkinssRvA]

20 hours ago, elkabong82 said:

Really guys, this is the worst negotiation ever? Please. Stop acting like Kirk isn't a unique situation. When's the last time a back up QB turned into a top 10 QB later in his career and was then up for a big contract? When's the last time a player was due a big, big money contract with such a short resume of success? These things are important to the decision-making process and you all are ignoring it. I get it, we're all frustrated and want Kirk signed. Doesn't mean we need to twist the reality of the situation.

 

Hindsight certainly is a benefit. But actually put yourselves in the shoes of the decision makers. They just had to move on from a bust in RG3 and lost major onvestments in draft picks as well as millions on the extension. They even saw division rival QB Nick Foles literally be a 1 year wonder. Kirk himself had half a season of great play. Yet some of you still want to pretend that no LTD for Kirk after '15 had no merits at all, that it was an irrational decision. Sorry to burst your narrative, but it was a reasonable decision given the short resume and what the team had literally just gone through with the prior QB. 

 

Now if we don't get the LTD done by July 15th this year it is a massive fail, definitely. But as of right now the process is following the same as it does with big nae players looking for a big deal. Von Miller was far more uncertain situtation and tons of reports came out about animosity with the FO during the negotiations. Look what is going on with Leveon Bell right now. Hasn't even signed his tender and can't do OTAs, and people are concerned he may holdout. Their have been players who have sat out games. Heck, back in '97 we had Sean Gilbert sit out the entire season. Emmit SMith missed 2 games holding out. http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/gallery/joey-bosa-holdout-chargers-nfl-contract-dispute-list-revis-chancellor-emmitt-smith-jamarcus-081516

 

Rg3 was a sunk cost and if the front office took that bust into account when negotiating with a completely different player..well...again, incompetence.  

 

And comparing kirks situation right right now to any other player in the history of the NFL doesn't really work.  He's a top 10 Qb in the league with every incentive to hit free agency at the end of the year and earn MORE money than he is right now on his second consecutive franchise tag.  That's two things that have never happened before in the history of the NFL.  

 

Theres also a very real difference between Kirk cousins and nick foles.  One played in a true NFL system and had to make multiple reads per play.  The other was in a college system that fizzled out in two years.  It was a one read offense and everyone knew it.  

 

So yes, this has absolutely gone in the worst possible way.  And all signs point to one of three scenarios:

 

1. Redskins vastly overpay for Kirk in order to lock him up

2. Kirk is franchised for the third consecutive year, meaning we owe him (I think) somewhere around 34 million bucks

3. Kirk hits free agency and we lose him 

 

I don't understand your point about holdouts as it has no relevance with this discussion: Kirk is under contract and will play for us.  The question is whether or not he will play for us next year, and unfortunately it makes the most financial sense for him not to.  

 

[theTruthTeller]

20 minutes ago, SkinssRvA said:

...

So yes, this has absolutely gone in the worst possible way.  And all signs point to one of three scenarios:

 

1. Redskins vastly overpay for Kirk in order to lock him up

2. Kirk is franchised for the third consecutive year, meaning we owe him (I think) somewhere around 34 million bucks

3. Kirk hits free agency and we lose him 

...

I think there is one other grim possibility: Kirk has a bad year or gets hurt, but because no one in the FO has ever prepared for him not being here, they sign him to a top 10 QB contract anyway and hope he bounces back.  It's almost as if the FO is hoping for a bad year so they can get a good deal on a LTD.

[Mania]

On 6/16/2017 at 10:35 AM, SkinssRvA said:

This whole situation is an agent's wet dream.  I just can't see them agreeing to a deal at this point when the potential for so much more money is there at the end of next season.  I've grown sour on this deal happening, recently, and the more I think about it the more sense it makes from a player's perspective to just play this year out and be the first QB in their prime to ever hit unrestricted free agency.  

Not the first, Drew Brees certainly was in his prime