Momma There Goes That Man Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 2 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said: 2 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: Stats; not fair due to different components and styles. Ability; very hard to judge without the former catagory. Accomplishments; usually weighed by stats (see the former comment) or trophies (see my upcoming comment). Championships;. Why did Baugh never win a Super Bowl ?? Before that era, that two leagues weren't even close. Impact; how are you defining ning that? What has Brady really done that changed the way the game is played? To me he is prototypical QB. Many QBs have impacted the game more than him. And Brady, or really any other player today, I don't believe is tough enough to have survived in that era. Big Ben I could maybe see an argument for because I believe he is currently the toughest but even him I wonder. Stats: they are what they are. Sure Marinos 5k yards are more impressive then at a glance but perhaps since he was ahead of the time he was exploiting poor pass defenses before the league and coverages adjusted to make it harder for QBs? So yu take the stats for what they are and then factor them into the equation ability: not hard to judge at all. IE Rodgers is the best passer of the football I have ever seen and most talented/complete QB too. That defies any era, stat or style box. Their skill sets are easy to determine accomplishments and trophies...I'm not sure how you can eliminate those. They definitely play a role if the accomplishment is noteworthy and legitimate not something like fan voted pro bowls but all pro selections, or Brady's 11 times in a conference championship etc. rings are are team accomplishment but it does matter being part of them. Im not old enough to see prime Marino but I have to imagine at some point he probably could have done just a little more or had just a slightly better game to get his team over the hump. Impact? Subjective more so than the others definitely. Brady along with Peyton are probably the two smartest QBs to play the game and ushered in the era of the coach on the field QB where they dissect a defense presnap and out chess them before even touching the football. That level of offensive dominance changed the way defenses played and their presnap looks. he also led at one point the greatest offense ever seen and helped push the league into the more pass happy trend. His injury caused rule changes to protect the QB. He's dominated and put up incredible numbers yearly mastering a short strike offense as opposed to the long ball. And he's what 39 and could easily win his 2nd super bowl in 3 seasons without any signs of slowing down. He's got a hell of a resume I also think most players of today would run roughshod and beat the **** out of players from previous eras. They are just inconceivably bigger stronger and faster now. Jim Brown wouldn't have been able to soft jog over 6 defenders on his way to the endzone all the time when those defenses are 6'4 240 and run 4.5s. And the average OL today would swallow the DL whole and spit out their bones so Brady would probably rarely even be touched Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey713 Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Brady is like a machine. Don't like the Patriots, but I gotta respect what he's done in New England along with Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 In my mind --- Brady is one of the GOATS. Not sure how everyone could agree on "the one" -- when there are multiple eras, rule changes, etc. Given football eras, and time the question in this era has always been Brady v. Manning. People will always have personal preference --I like Peyton more than Brady, but think about Manning, Brady, and even Brees (close enough cohorts). It is their circumstances that make the difference... it is hard to say what they would do surrounded by the others circumstances (Freaky Friday). These are guys with parallel careers. What about Montana --- would he play until 39 given modern medicine, taking care of his body, etc? Entering the league from 1999 to 2003 -- its gotta be those 3 who are "GOAT of the Era". Manning was probably better younger, Brady better older, Brees up there as well... all surrounded and shaped by their circumstances (I am sure folks will complain about including Brees). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Elway made his first 3 SB appearances at a time when the AFC was a ****ing joke. The best team in the AFC in any year from 84 to 95 would never have even made it to the NFCC game. It took an 1800 yard rusher, a pro bowl WR, a HOF TE, and a Ray Rhoads defense to carry him over the top. He's not even top 5, let alone in the debate for GOAT. AND NOBODY better bring up perennial choker and most overrated QB of all time Favre into this discussion. Chris freaking Hogan just put up almost as many yards against the Steelers defense as Julio Jones did against what was left of a Packers secondary made up of 3rd string street FAs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebeermonkey Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 I think he's the best ever. Montana second. They are/were winners and the two I would trust with my life on a two minute drill to win a championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 @thebeermonkey Disagree that it is so easy to rank them. Team success has as much to do with uncontrollable intangibles. How would we separate Brady, Brees, Manning of the past 10 years? All of them have had monster years, all of them have been consistent. Brady, like a wine has gotten better with age. Manning was good even after switching teams and a neck injury. Brees also switched teams and is overlooked in the GOAT conversation. Drafting, and defense separates their teams -- objectively, how do you differentiate? All of them benefitted from QB friendly rules, both in gameplay and safety. Going back, Favre's closest peer is Aikman. But Favre carried more of the load. How do you separate Steve Young and Marino? Again, Marino took the league by storm early, Young had monster years as he was older. Elway is also around during this same time. With Montana, you have Warren Moon as a peer. I think I am even leaving out Jim Kelly to some extent, and Boomer Esiason to a lesser extent. Those are all the GOATs I have witnessed, and darn if I couldn't choose one who I would want to lead my team down the field for a win (well, definately not Boomer). Moon, Montana, Marino, Young, Elway, Favre, Manning, Brady, Brees...they all have strengths, very few weaknesses -- I can't rank them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FS#21 Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Wrong thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yohan Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 8 hours ago, Fergasun said: How would we separate Brady, Brees, Manning of the past 10 years? You can't look at the past 10 years and not have Rodgers and possibly Romo on the list. I tend to look at it as Brady/Montana as 1A/1B. I also find it hard to compare eras due to rule changes and how the game has evolved over the years. Brady just hasn't had the supporting cast (WR, TE, RB) that some of the other QBs have had over the years. So I lean more Brady. It's always a fascinating conversation viewing other peoples perspectives on the GOAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 I know I'm probably late, but whatever... These are my GOATS... Brady, Montana, Manning, Marino, Elway, and Rodgers. With all due respect to Drew Brees, he's not making my list. He's done great things, but I'll put him on the level with Farve, Rivers, Romo, Aikman, etc... The reason Rodgers is on the list, it all goes back to the 2014-15 playoff run. One one freaking leg, he beat Dallas and then went TO SEATTLE and should have beaten the Seahawks. Then after the run he had this year... It was a wrap. Aaron Rodgers is one of the GOATS. He can retire today and easily be a first ballot HOF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeMarco Murray 29 Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 On 1/23/2017 at 4:30 PM, thebeermonkey said: I think he's the best ever. Montana second. They are/were winners and the two I would trust with my life on a two minute drill to win a championship. 100% agree with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 On 1/24/2017 at 1:13 AM, Fergasun said: @thebeermonkey Moon, Montana, Marino, Young, Elway, Favre, Manning, Brady, Brees...they all have strengths, very few weaknesses -- I can't rank them. I love this list. While all were clutch, I'd say Farve, Marino, and Moon were mostly to throw a soul crunching pick on a potential game winning drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USS Redskins Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 He is top 1 or 2 no question. my question is would Belicheck be considered the best coach without Brady? my personal thought is Joe Gibbs GOAT with 3 qbs and 3 titles but I am biased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yohan Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 On 1/31/2017 at 2:48 PM, USS Redskins said: my question is would Belicheck be considered the best coach without Brady? Yes, if his head coaching powers worked in Cleveland. That was probably before his deal with the devil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor 36 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 8 hours ago, Yohan said: Yes, if his head coaching powers worked in Cleveland. That was probably before his deal with the devil. Actually, his head coaching powers were working in Cleveland. He took the pathetic Browns (3 - 13 the year before he got there) and turned them into a playoff team (11 - 5, the best record they have had since 1980) his fourth year there. They even beat the Pats in the playoffs that year. His team was strong and had all the promise going into and at the start of his fifth and final season there (they started 3 - 1), but then Model announced he was moving the team to Baltimore and the whole thing fell apart as the players became deflated (pun intended) and finished 5 - 11. Had Model kept the team in Cleveland and not cut Belichick loose, the Browns would most likely would have become a perennial playoff team and probably have a couple Lombardis as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yohan Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 12 hours ago, Taylor 36 said: Actually, his head coaching powers were working in Cleveland. He took the pathetic Browns (3 - 13 the year before he got there) and turned them into a playoff team (11 - 5, the best record they have had since 1980) his fourth year there. They even beat the Pats in the playoffs that year. His team was strong and had all the promise going into and at the start of his fifth and final season there (they started 3 - 1), but then Model announced he was moving the team to Baltimore and the whole thing fell apart as the players became deflated (pun intended) and finished 5 - 11. Had Model kept the team in Cleveland and not cut Belichick loose, the Browns would most likely would have become a perennial playoff team and probably have a couple Lombardis as well. I could go along with this except, playoffs in year 4 with the Browns. The man won the Superbowl in year 2 with the Patriots, after using his dark magic to injure Drew Bledsoe in order to put some 6th round, unknown wizard to helm his team. I will say he gained his powers after he put a dagger in the Jets heart, that one day he was the he was their head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busch1724 Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 On 2/3/2017 at 8:57 AM, Yohan said: I could go along with this except, playoffs in year 4 with the Browns. The man won the Superbowl in year 2 with the Patriots, after using his dark magic to injure Drew Bledsoe in order to put some 6th round, unknown wizard to helm his team. I will say he gained his powers after he put a dagger in the Jets heart, that one day he was the he was their head coach. Proves any coach is marginal without a franchise QB. The exception to that is Coach Gibbs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy Yoda Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 Tom Brady is the best QB of all time. You can never count out the Patriots to go to the Super Bow every year, he is the reason. The guy puts up numbers and wins with receivers like Julian Edelman and Chris Hogan, he builds an incredible repertoire with his receivers and they dominate. I just can't wait until he retires, give someone else a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilandil Tasardur Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 Tom Brady has made the Superbowl 48% of the years in which he has been a healthy starter. Counting this year, Tom Brady has been in 14% of all Superbowls ever played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 Tom Brady is the absolute GOAT. Joe Montana was until Brady won his 4th. I don't want to even hear the non-sense that it's because of Belichick and any QB can win games (Matt Cassel excuse) in his system. Joe Montana had the HOF head coach in Bill Walsh for three of his SBs and George Seifert was the DC there for two of those and head coach in waiting when Walsh retired. Joe won three SBs under Walsh and one under Seifert, the system was set in place for Joe as well. Not to mention all of Joes Super Bowls came before the salary cap. All of Bradys have been once since then. It's extremely difficult to create and maintain a dynasty for that long in the salary cap era. Since they won their first SB in 2001, Brady has led the Pats to eleven 12+ win seasons. Since 2001, they have never had a losing season and their worst was a 9-7 season in 2002. And all the other seasons, they won at least 10+ games. Montana had amazing seasons with the 49ers as far as win/loss too, no doubt. But he also had the best WR to play the game in Rice for 2 SBs. Brady hasn't had that kind of talent to throw to his entire career except the one with Moss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 You can close this thread now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yohan Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Confirmed GOAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrison J Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Conversation should be deemed dead now. Best ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSilverMaC Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Is the falcons loss a bigger fail than the warrior's fail last year in terms of purely the championship game/series? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 17 minutes ago, MrSilverMaC said: Is the falcons loss a bigger fail than the warrior's fail last year in terms of purely the championship game/series? I'd say they're equal. Pats looked like a div 2 school going up against Bama or something. Totally outclassed. Then Tom went Super Saiyan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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