The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[Gibbit]

6 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

gibbett

gibbett

[Stefanskins]

7 minutes ago, Gibbit said:

 

 

That is awesome....looks like he's groomin' himself for a hot date!

[Momma There Goes That Man]

23 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

while further depleting the fundamentals of what this game used to be and why it was played; for the real honest love of the game.

 

When was that ever the reason football was played professionally? 

[Epochalypse]

Bear with me here, I have a point....

 

Okay so I played with fanspeak's Manage the Cap and here is what I did.

 

Cut Hall and Lauvao

 

RESIGNED COUSINS TO A 5 YR 24 MILLION/YR CONTRACT W/ 35% GUARANTEED

Resigned Baker 4 yr 6.75 mil/yr 20% gtd

Resigned Garcon 3 yr 7 mil/yr 20% gtd

Resigned Sullivan 1 yr 2 mil/yr 10% gtd

Dumped the rest

 

In free agency I signed

Calais Campbell, DE 4 yr 9 mil/yr 30% gtd replacing Ziggy Hood

Melvin Ingram, EDGE 4 yr 9 mil/yr 25% gtd replacing Terrence Garvin

Tony Jefferson, SS 5 yr 8 mil/yr 25% gtd replacing DeAngelo Hall

Kevin Zeitler, G 4 yr 7.5 mil/yr 25% gtd replacing Shawn Lauvao

Zach Brown, ILB 4 yr 7 mil/yr 20% gtd

DJ Swearinger, FS 4 yr 5 mil/yr 20% gtd replacing Duke Ihenacho

Lawrence Guy, DL 4 yr 5.5 mil/yr 20% gtd replacing Jerrell Powe

 

That left me needing a WR replacement for Desean Jackson (Doctson healthy will hopefully help), a CB to replace Greg Toler and a TE to replace Vernon Davis, all of which I felt were positions deep in this year's draft.

 

I point all of that out to say this...

 

Even if we give Cousins a big contract we are not hurting for money that can be used to significantly improve our team.  You can argue that Cousins will want more or that some of the other players I signed will sign for more...whatever.  I'm more pointing out the mathematics involved.

 

And in case you were wondering the only Redskins free agents of note next year are Trent Murphy and Bashaud Breeland I believe.  So it's not like we have big home grown talent to resign, unless they really step up for their contract year.

 

[NoCalMike]

WR is a tricky position to gauge just by the numbers.  Rod Gardner was a 1,000 WR his rookie season, looked promising, but his production ended up when all was said and done, likely due to having no other consistent viable option so he compiled states due to volume. 

 

Michael Westbrook physically was set to become Terrell Owens before there was a Terrell Owens but was a major headcase and never panned out.  

 

I think sometimes when you watch players on the team you root for week in and week out it tends to show them in a positive light when they make nice plays, but like any other position in the NFL there are probably 5-10 truly next level players and then after that the dropoff is significant and you have a lot of good but not great talent.

 

As fun as it is to see Jackson go deep and track the ball and take it to the house, he also has the habit of disappearing for entire halves of games or sometimes an entire game.  Not to mention he is probably looking at this offseason as his last opportunity to really go out and break the bank.   If the 'Skins had more leverage, say a playoff win or two in 2016 to entice him with the chance to win a Superbowl?  Sure, he might drop his price tag, but as I see it now, he is only signing with a team that either pays him a ton or has a good chance to win it all right now.

 

Same with Garcon.  Dude is a solid WR, but if you take off the burgundy glasses, do you really think there aren't going to be other older serviceable vets available that can bring to the table the same thing Garcon can?

 

 

[Stefanskins]

On 2/16/2017 at 7:33 PM, Tsailand said:

 

Don't forget that we could trade for

 

 

 

 

Please...PLEASE T, youre gonna make me puke!!! 

[theTruthTeller]

2 hours ago, carex said:

 

transition tag gives us right of first refusal, the teams that would both need him and able to pay would have to be pretty lousy

I think its too easy for a team that needs Kirk to make an offer designed to be unpalatable to the Skins.  And if Kirk presents the contract to the Skins and they don't match, they get no compensation whatsoever for losing Kirk.

 

For example, SF has about $20M more cap room than the Skins this (plus about $17M more when they unload Kaepernick).  They'll probably have huge cap room next year as well.  If Kirk is on the transition tag in 2018 and SF offered Kirk a $2M signing bonus + $48M 2018 salary guaranteed + $10M 2019 salary + $15M 2020 salary + $24M 2021 salary + $24M 2022 salary, that structure would be pretty hard for the Skins to match without screwing up their rebuilding plans.  SF would need some protection if Kirk didn't play out the contract through 2020, but it would be very doable for the 49ers.   And it would beat giving up two draft choices, especially since they aren't going to win with Kirk in 2017 anyway.

[bobandweave]

1 hour ago, skinfan2k said:

garçon and jackson dont even crack the top 20 WRs in football.  Garcon is a glue guy i would like to keep but he is replaceable 

 

Garcon has been called the heart and soul of this offense lately by the media and I agree. He is not replaceable as you say. He is tough as nails, brings a workmens attitude to every game and does what is asked of him, when he was the only receiver in town he led the league in receptions, he's fisty and a leader. I wish we had a team full of players like him

[CapsSkins]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I can see both Wrs gone, maybe even Baker, too.  But hard for me to see all of that plus trading Kirk and or just renting him for one year.  That's IMO nuclear level PR suicide.  

 

The only FAs linked to the team rumor wise thus far are Britt and Logan.  So agree Britt might be in play.  I like Tony Jefferson but he seems more like a SS than a FS.  I bet Poe might be too scary of a signing (with his ballooning weight) for Scot post Pot Roast so I think more likely: Hankins, Campbell or Logan.  

 

Veering off on a different point but related.   The idea that the FO would let all our major FAs go and trade Kirk too or just rent him -- I've seen some back this notion by saying can you imagine what they will do with all that extra cash.  They can use that extra money to buy all these guys.   Ok but that doesn't fly with Scot's style.  He's said that he doesn't fully trust FA and there are issues with it among them team chemistry.   I don't see anything about Scot's background that would lead me to believe that he's thinking ok we've had two winning records back to back -- but screw it, lets blow it all up.   And lets use all that extra cash to make the Eagles Dream team from years back look like nothing -- we will get Poe, Hankins, and Logan!  We will get Britt and Stills!   It just doesn't add up to me.  It's not his style

 

Yes, hence why I said they'd sign Kirk long-term, lose 88 and 11, sign Britt, draft an RB, sign Poe and Jefferson. I think Doctson will break out, Crowder can get a bigger role, guys like Mo Harris can step up, re-sign 85 as Reed insurance, and re-tool on D. Could go either way on Baker, depends on price tag. He ain't worth $10M that's for damn sure.

[Peregrine]

Color me confused onto why so many people are losing their heads over us not having resigned players yet...Is insanity vogue now?  Is it "in"?  I must be out of it, because I think its beyond crazy to be saying this is a disaster, considering as all it took was a quick 5 minutes of inquiry to discover that not only have we only re-signed one player in the past 2 seasons prior to March 1st(it was Tom Compton on 02/27/15), but NO TEAM IN THE NFL HAVE RESIGNED A SINGLE ONE OF THEIR FAs YET.  Oh, unless you call Carolina re-signing Ben Jacobs(yes, iof the 0 plays last year Jacobs).

 

Its amazing how just keeping silent can make people panic and loose their heads.

[RemoveSnyder]

2 hours ago, Epochalypse said:

Okay so I played with fanspeak's Manage the Cap and here is what I did.

 

I gave a go at it.

 

Cut a few more guys than you, like Painter and Compton (though the game apparently doesn't realize he's a RFA).

 

I managed to re-sign Cousins, Garcon, Baker, Sullivan and Davis. Then signed Dontari Poe, Calais Campbell, Zach Brown, Jon Bostic, Micah Hyde, Kemal Ishmael and BW Webb. (Though in actuality, I'd like to sign Sio Moore for LB, he wasn't available in the game).

 

I wasn't able to squeeze in Markus Wheaton, but I was pretty close. Probably off by 1 or 2 million AAV. I think the game overvalued Wheaton.

 

I still had cap room when all was said and done, a little more than 3 million. Plus the already set aside 5 million for draft picks the game mandated. So, yeah, cleaned up. 

 

[Veryoldschool]

4 hours ago, Gibbit said:

new era?

hell call rg3 see if he can catch

 

really though I don't want to diminish garcon and desean's worth. Just saying not the end of the world

 

It is the position he was built for but I don't think he's got the lateral quickness required after his surgeries.

[Veryoldschool]

Can you imagine a well managed franchise jerking a great young QB like Cousins around like this?  I can't.  I think competent management whould have their franchise QB under contract and would working their magic with Garçon and Jackson.  

[Rattlesnake88]

21 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

It is the position he was built for but I don't think he's got the lateral quickness required after his surgeries.

For as much as the guy gets bashed, he was all in (for week one) as a Redskin. I think he is naive, foolish and egotistical even. But I don't think anyone can deny he has heart. If he somehow resurrected his career (even as a WR) it would be remarkable. I'm not even one of those guys that defended him through the rough years. I think he has proven professionally and personally to be someone who is a "sprinter" and sometimes a poor decision maker. His career as an NFL player is all but over at this point. I don't see anything from him other than a reach and a moneygrab but hey, miracles happen. Even to immature fellas like RG3.

 

But case in point. Kirk does need weapons yes, but Grude's system gets guys open....Period. Kirk consistantly hit multiple, multiple targets (not just Reed!) game in and game out wide fricken open. I think we can win without Kirk honestly. I dont think we are the 3 win team everyone thinks we are with colt. If we spent 25-30 million on defense and drafted well I think the team can tread water even without the qb of the future. Time will tell for sure. **** is about to get real.

12 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

Can you imagine a well managed franchise jerking a great young QB like Cousins around like this?  I can't.  I think competent management whould have their franchise QB under contract and would working their magic with Garçon and Jackson.  

There is nothing to compare our situation to. Even mediocre Joe Flacco won a superbowl. No qb in the history of the game without a playoff win or 30+ passing tds will make as much as Kirk this coming season. Its not the "no brainer" make him the richest player in history move that some of y'all co-sign together on.

[Rattlesnake88]

Not to mention some of the same folks who consistantly posted "TIME TO EARN THAT 19 MIL KURT!!!!!!" every time we had a game altering drive on offense are the same to scream "PAY THE MAN WHATEVER HE WANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"...

[Califan007 The Constipated]

6 hours ago, carex said:

 

How quickly we forget.  THe Skins haven't drafted a truly excellent receiver since Art Monk and Garcon and Jackson are about the only FA we've gotten in their primes.  We struggled for years to find someone to pair with Santana Moss

 

Crowder isn't exactly chopped liver...

[carex]

4 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

Crowder isn't exactly chopped liver...

 

true enough.  But then he's our third or fourth option.  We've brought in numerous  guys who were good at that role, but when we tried to use them as our second option they weren't up to it.

[Skinsinparadise]

Grant PaulsenVerified account‏@granthpaulsen  9h9 hours ago

More

Just went on CLE radio to discuss #Redskins' handling of Kirk Cousins. Was like a starving person asking me why someone's neglecting food.

 

[LetThePointsSoar]

I can't take this.  Every day drags expecting this saga to finally end.  Sign the damn man already. 

[spjunkies]

Grant needs to get over himself. There is something called negotiations and budgeting involved with this scenario.

[markmills67]

5 days and counting for the Redskins to sign Cousins to a LTD, if they don't it just might be the worst decision in the Snyder era, and that is saying something because it's been disaster after disaster since he took over. The good work that's been put in the last 2 years will count for nothing, which surely Snyder can't let happen. 

 

HTTR 

[Veryoldschool]

If the Skins are really stuck for money trade Norman and free up a lot of money.  This sound crazy to you?  Norman gets paid 15M a year and while he was certainly an upgrade maybe this team cannot afford having the most expensive CB and the most expensive QB in the league, I opt for jettisoning the most expensive CB.

 

Who is having the biggest impact on our WL record Norman or Cousins?  While Norman helped last year he didn't anything like the impact on the team that Cousins had when he was FINALLY allowed to take over the job.  The Skins  had total of 7 wins in the two previous seasons with Griffin in the starting role when healthy and Kirk and Colt backing him up during his frequent injuries.  It was a mess.

 

With Cousins starting the Skins win 17 games in 2 years a 10 game improvement.  Without a dependable running game the Skins have one of the most potent offenses in the NFL because Kirk has become a Drew Brees clone just like Shanny said he would.  Imagine if Cousins is traded in 2017.  Would they fall to a 3 or 4 win level in 2017 if a trade is made?  I think that is entirely possible along with a coaching change and maybe a new GM.  If they lost Norman in 2017 I think it would have far less impact.  So I suggest if the Skins are offer 20M a year and Cousins is seeking 25M trade Norman and replace him with a 10M CB.  

[Veryoldschool]

8 hours ago, Rattlesnake88 said:

For as much as the guy gets bashed, he was all in (for week one) as a Redskin. I think he is naive, foolish and egotistical even. But I don't think anyone can deny he has heart. If he somehow resurrected his career (even as a WR) it would be remarkable. I'm not even one of those guys that defended him through the rough years. I think he has proven professionally and personally to be someone who is a "sprinter" and sometimes a poor decision maker. His career as an NFL player is all but over at this point. I don't see anything from him other than a reach and a moneygrab but hey, miracles happen. Even to immature fellas like RG3.

 

But case in point. Kirk does need weapons yes, but Grude's system gets guys open....Period. Kirk consistantly hit multiple, multiple targets (not just Reed!) game in and game out wide fricken open. I think we can win without Kirk honestly. I dont think we are the 3 win team everyone thinks we are with colt. If we spent 25-30 million on defense and drafted well I think the team can tread water even without the qb of the future. Time will tell for sure. **** is about to get real.

There is nothing to compare our situation to. Even mediocre Joe Flacco won a superbowl. No qb in the history of the game without a playoff win or 30+ passing tds will make as much as Kirk this coming season. Its not the "no brainer" make him the richest player in history move that some of y'all co-sign together on.

 

Kirk throws to everyone as you say because he thinks quick enough to read a coverage, understand who is going to be open so he gets it to the right guy on time. Others had opportunities to throw to these same receivers and were far less productive. Why doesn't a guy with a quicker mind impress people as much as a guy with quick feet?  

 

 

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

Man, I am really starting to rethink my opinion of Kirk if what is leaking out is true. He doesn't WANT to play for the Skins in 2018? OK, so we are NOT YET a championship team with our defense...and 2 1st rounders would solve that in a hurry (plus OUR picks). *I* think Colt and or Cutler would service for next year and maybe 2018. No much of QB draft this year

 

So I am "kinda" OK with trading Kirk NOW when his market is max'd than loose him in 2018. I really want players who WANT to be Skins. Now, I know Snyder CAUSED this with his RG3 Love...but he's outa the loop now and MAYBE this is the last consequence of a bromance with the owner.

 

IF WE CAN GET 1st's...I won't complain given where we are as a ball club

[HOF44]

15 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Kirk throws to everyone as you say because he thinks quick enough to read a coverage, understand who is going to be open so he gets it to the right guy on time. Others had opportunities to throw to these same receivers and were far less productive. Why doesn't a guy with a quicker mind impress people as much as a guy with quick feet?  

 

 

Very true.  It's no coincidence that our oline became great pass protectors at the same time Cousins started playing.