The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[Veryoldschool]

5 hours ago, Alexa said:

Those stupid fools (Bruce and Dan) are still bitter that RG3 is a bust. That is part of the issue. Let's just say that Griffin was the one breaking the Redskins records. He would have a long term deal after the 15 season. I'm 100 percent sure of that. Those idiots would be so happy to give him a deal. But they can't cause the 4th rounder turned out to be better and they're still bitter about that. And I firmly believe that this is the reason Kirk doesn't have a contract.

 

This is the post of the year.  Sadly, I think that is the problem.  Dan's pride is hurt.

 

I was looking for a more complex explanation but the simple, age-old, deadly sin of pride explains it.  Losing Cousins because Snyder fails to finally embrace him and not only give a top 5 deal but also tell Kirk how proud he is that Kirk's become the winsome face of the franchise and make Kirk feel truly wanted would be really stupid of Snyder, but pride can make people stupid.

 

You're right if Griffin had been able to do 75% of what Cousins accomplished in 2015 Snyder would have happily rewarded Griffin with a HUGE contract, it would have been a passionate love fest that built quickly to a joyous climax  instead of a drawn out sterile, energy draining business negotiation.  

[Warhead36]

I think people are overblowing the Snyder ego angle. People need to stop with the Snyder being the boogeyman stuff. This ain't 2009 anymore. We are talking about the same Dan Snyder that was bobbing around to Jump Jump during the Packer rout right?

[Veryoldschool]

2 minutes ago, AOTmike13 said:

I really want Kirk to stay with us.  But after all this talk about him not wanting to be here, and the amount of money (cap space) it will take to keep him.  What does anybody think of tagging him, and trading him to SF or whoever wants him.  Letting Colt McCoy start (I personally think he has played very well every time he has been on the field for us).  Let Nate Sudfield develop, b/c that's the reason you drafted him right...  Finally with the money and cap room we will save and the draft picks we could get for Cousins, we could potentially draft players like Dalvin Cook (who could become a workhorse RB and a star), re-sign DeSean Jackson AND Pierre Garcon and still draft and sign players in free agency to make our defense good.  We could probably go after guys like Dontari Poe, Calais Campbell, Duron Harmon (one of my favorites), even look at a few big name free agents like Terrell Pryor or whoever the organization likes.  Basically I think we could turn our team into a very very good team with tons of weapons on offense and a very good defense.  We would obviously be missing that franchise quarterback but I will say it again, I think McCoy has played well the few times he has started for us.  Remember the Dallas game (NO means NO!) and wasn't there a game he replaced Cousins a year or two ago and played well when Cousins was struggling.  Nate Sudfield looked good in preseason last year, maybe he is gonna be a good one too.

 

This Skins can do all that by giving away the best QB they've had in 30+ years?  I don't think so, it looks like a suckers bet to me.  I'd rather give Cousins 20-30% more and build on what is starting to work.  Improve the defense and the Skins could become a perennial 10+ win team with Cousins and do so without taking crazy chances.

 

[JSSkinz]

I just don't buy the news that Dan and Bruce are the ones who don't want to sign KC.  If this is the case I expect SM to resign immediately, why would SM put his reputation on the line for 2 guys who will undermine it.

 

If Dan and Bruce are the ones behind this move then SM should pack his desk and run as fast as he can.

 

 

[Veryoldschool]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I think people are overblowing the Snyder ego angle. People need to stop with the Snyder being the boogeyman stuff. This ain't 2009 anymore. We are talking about the same Dan Snyder that was bobbing around to Jump Jump during the Packer rout right?

 

Have you read this article:

 

Same Old Same Old

 

I don't know if that is what is happening but it does explain what we are seeing.

[Skinsinparadise]

This is coming from a rare guy who liked both RG3 and Cousins.  I never really get the idea of rooting for players to fail because of liking another player at the same position.  In that same spirit, I really doubt RG3 has anything to do with the FO's action or inaction on Kirk.   If I want to go crazy on that front, maybe I'd entertain the idea a little if RG3 thrived in Cleveland but he's off to a rocky start.   Heck I still think we are jumping the gun on the FO failing to secure Kirk -- we aren't even at deadline #1 which is March 1st.

[mistertim]

11 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

This is the post of the year.  Sadly, I think that is the problem.  Dan's pride is hurt.

 

I was looking for a more complex explanation but the simple, age-old, deadly sin of pride explains it.  Losing Cousins because Snyder fails to finally embrace him and not only give a top 5 deal but also tell Kirk how proud he is that Kirk's become the winsome face of the franchise and make Kirk feel truly wanted would be really stupid of Snyder, but pride can make people stupid.

 

You're right if Griffin had been able to do 75% of what Cousins accomplished in 2015 Snyder would have happily rewarded Griffin with a HUGE contract, it would have been a passionate love fest that built quickly to a joyous climax  instead of a drawn out sterile, energy draining business negotiation.  

 

This is just flat out stupid. You truly think that Dan is going to intentionally torpedo the team and overrule his GM just because he is butt hurt that RG3 didn't work out? If there's one thing we know Dan loves, it is winning. I don't think he cares what QB we do it with as long as it gets done. And I wouldn't see SM sticking around if Dan were being that meddlesome and petty. IMO this Kirk stuff is all about SM and Bruce and what they think he's actually worth.

[Est.1974]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 IMO this Kirk stuff is all about SM and Bruce and what they think he's actually worth.

 

I agree, tend to see that as a major sticking point. Add in the fact he has suitors with serious trade chips and it's a big call.

[Morneblade]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

This is just flat out stupid. You truly think that Dan is going to intentionally torpedo the team and overrule his GM just because he is butt hurt that RG3 didn't work out? If there's one thing we know Dan loves, it is winning. I don't think he cares what QB we do it with as long as it gets done. And I wouldn't see SM sticking around if Dan were being that meddlesome and petty. IMO this Kirk stuff is all about SM and Bruce and what they think he's actually worth.

 

 

Thanks you, at least for the part in bold. The last part, is complete conjecture, like everything else on here. But there is a ton of stupid going on here. I remember when we prayed for a FO that didn't have leaks and was professional. Now we have one, and people have no idea how to act so everyone freaks out because there is nothing to freak out about.

 

The only things we have heard is that Allen wants Kirk here, and it wont be that complicated. Kirk has not said much either way. GMSM has said he liked what Kirk brings to the table.

 

They're not going to show their cards in public. No one else is working on signing their top FA's either, so this is not unusual. It's par for the course. Stop freaking out people. At least until there is a reason to freak out.

[mistertim]

20 hours ago, Taylor 36 said:

In the end, Brees improved, and his fourth year as a starter saw him break through to become the great QB he is today.  Cousins is ahead of him at this point and there is no reason to believe that, given the amount of starts and reps Brees had, that Cousins won't get to the same great level that Brees finally did.  I'm not sure why that is so hard to understand.

 

There's also no reason to believe that Cousins will end up being one of the best to ever play the game, like Brees. In fact, I'd argue that it is pretty damn unlikely seeing as how rare a QB as good as Brees is.

 

Seriously, this Brees stuff is silly.

[Mr. Sinister]

14 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

 

Thanks you, at least for the part in bold. The last part, is complete conjecture, like everything else on here. But there is a ton of stupid going on here. I remember when we prayed for a FO that didn't have leaks and was professional. Now we have one, and people have no idea how to act so everyone freaks out because there is nothing to freak out about.

 

The only things we have heard is that Allen wants Kirk here, and it wont be that complicated. Kirk has not said much either way. GMSM has said he liked what Kirk brings to the table.

 

They're not going to show their cards in public. No one else is working on signing their top FA's either, so this is not unusual. It's par for the course. Stop freaking out people. At least until there is a reason to freak out.

 

Wait until everyone gets a hold of that UnWise Mike interview on SportsCenter. A tidal wave of stupid is coming...

[XtremeFan55]

Here is something else to chew on.  Brady stated that the one reason why he isn't ready to retire is because he now totally understands the game.  He has seen it all and no defense surprises him...so mentally he is at his peak.   Cousins could be that type of player based on what I have read over the years about his football intelligence.   The first camp his rookie year Garcon even said that Cousins mind is like a computer.   Brady is not considered athletic but cerebral.  I can see Cousins playing another 10 plus years whereas most of the other players on current roster will be long gone by then.  Cousins IMO will get better over time bcause he seems to fit the cerebral player type like Brady.   Maybe we need to follow the Patriot blue print and build around Cousins, hoard draft picks, keep drafting wisely and start letting players go while still in their peak years for draft picks.  A player like Reed would fit that category....trade for a number 2 pick before he gets another concussion.  

[Cooleyfan1993]

Came in here to see if people are still being crazy...and they are. You all need to get out more ???

[Skinsinparadise]

This Jenkins editorial is IMO premature.  Tough for me to be tough on the team until after the March 1st deadline and if it doesn't go down then -- still think it could work out before July15th.  Nonetheless, this is how I'd feel if they flub this:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/kirk-cousins-is-going-to-make-the-redskins-pay-no-matter-where-he-ends-up/2017/02/23/ceb2bf22-f9ce-11e6-9845-576c69081518_story.html?utm_term=.eab54d507689

It was one thing for Allen-McCloughan-Snyder to be unsure of what they had in Cousins back in 2014, when he still looked more like a kid who belonged at a toga party. But by the time Cousins took them to the NFC East title in 2015, everybody knew what they had, a guy who could play the position seriously and make every kind of throw, who was intelligent and dedicated and a leader. Any sensible team would have made the long-term deal. But no. This team is always Goldilocks; the grass is always greener; another player is more tempting.

What would it have taken to secure Cousins last year? They would have had to pay him like an above-average quarterback, which is what he is. They would have had to understand that there just aren’t many guys who complete more than 67 percent of their passes for more than 4,000 yards and toss for twice as many touchdowns as interceptions. Instead Washington’s reported offer would have ranked Cousins just 21st in annual salary. And then they went panting after Norman for $50 million.

“Ultimately, the offers kind of send a message, and you basically can connect the dots based off of those,” Cousins said shortly after this season.

So here’s the fix Washington’s economic geniuses are in now. After making it clear to Cousins they didn’t think he was worth above-average money, they are looking at having to pay him $44 million guaranteed for just two years. He made $19.95 million last season under the collective bargaining franchise-tag rule, and that goes up to $23.94 million in 2017. And they still don’t have him locked up. Next season if he plays like he has the past two, he’s going to command $40 to $50 million more as a free agent. He’s healthy and in his prime and guys like him just don’t come available — because other teams are smart enough to get them under contract. But not this team. No.

So now the trade rumors begin, because that’s probably Washington’s only way to get anything for him, as opposed to losing him to free agency after giving him $44 mil, which by the way is what he would have taken in the first place to sign a long-term deal.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

34 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

This is just flat out stupid. You truly think that Dan is going to intentionally torpedo the team and overrule his GM just because he is butt hurt that RG3 didn't work out? If there's one thing we know Dan loves, it is winning. I don't think he cares what QB we do it with as long as it gets done. And I wouldn't see SM sticking around if Dan were being that meddlesome and petty. IMO this Kirk stuff is all about SM and Bruce and what they think he's actually worth.

He does enjoy winning...

 

 

Remember when he was awkwardly dancing around when Cousins lit up Green Bay?

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

He does enjoy winning...

 

 

Remember when he was awkwardly dancing around when Cousins lit up Green Bay?

 

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

There it is - I couldn't find it to post. Thanks @mistertim

[Taylor703]

Sally Jenkins chimed in with something negative about the Redskins? Color me shocked.........

[HTTRDynasty]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

This Jenkins editorial is IMO premature.  Tough for me to be tough on team until after the March 1st deadline and it doesn't go down -- though still think it could work out before July15th.  Nonetheless, this is how I'd feel if they flub this:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/kirk-cousins-is-going-to-make-the-redskins-pay-no-matter-where-he-ends-up/2017/02/23/ceb2bf22-f9ce-11e6-9845-576c69081518_story.html?utm_term=.eab54d507689

It was one thing for Allen-McCloughan-Snyder to be unsure of what they had in Cousins back in 2014, when he still looked more like a kid who belonged at a toga party. But by the time Cousins took them to the NFC East title in 2015, everybody knew what they had, a guy who could play the position seriously and make every kind of throw, who was intelligent and dedicated and a leader. Any sensible team would have made the long-term deal. But no. This team is always Goldilocks; the grass is always greener; another player is more tempting.

 

This seems to be revisionist history.  Maybe some fans and some in the media felt like it was a no-brainer to do a LTD last offseason, but the feeling around the league seemed to be that he was a 1-year wonder and that it would be foolish to pay him on a LTD like a top QB.  Hell, according to McCloughan, "everyone" (i.e. people around the league) was making fun of him for even giving Cousins the franchise tag:

 

B/R: You've obviously made a huge decision to keep Kirk Cousins on the franchise tag.

SM: We did the franchise tag, and I know everybody made fun of me, and that's fine. But you know what? The guy won the division. They won nine games. They won four games the year before and turned around and won nine, and he plays all 17 with the playoffs, and we went on the road at the end of the season having to win, and we beat Philly and Dallas, both at their places. You know, the NFC East, I don't care if they're good teams or bad teams, you still don't win on the road. We didn't early in the season, but he kept going and going, and the players rallied around him.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2629584-scot-mccloughan-qa-the-philosophy-and-tools-of-a-successful-nfl-gm

 

There seems to be a serious disconnect (there definitely was last year) with what the media believes Cousins is worth and what those in the league do.

[zoony]

2 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

Are you sure you wanna stick to that? lol...

 

Between 1997 (the four seasons before Johnson joined the team) and 2003 (the last time Johnson was their full time starter), the Bucs only lost in the 1st round of the playoffs twice. Once was without Johnson. The second time was with Johnson as QB...and he **** all over the field: zero TDs, 4 INTs, 36.8 QB rating.

 

And his production in the playoffs the year they made the Super Bowl was mediocre at best. 5 TDs, 3 INTs, a crappy 54% completion rate, and a mediocre 79.9 QB rating.

 

I'm thinking @Taylor703 was pretty accurate in his assessment in the post you quoted.

 

I guess I should have said "playoff exit"

 

that they were were eliminated in z or x round has no bearing in the discussion. They didn't get it done and would never have gotten it done without BJ

 

but we all know your bag so it's cool. The one trick technicality pony who says lol a lot. 

 

Carry on and enjoy

[carex]

15 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

This is just flat out stupid. You truly think that Dan is going to intentionally torpedo the team and overrule his GM just because he is butt hurt that RG3 didn't work out? If there's one thing we know Dan loves, it is winning. I don't think he cares what QB we do it with as long as it gets done. And I wouldn't see SM sticking around if Dan were being that meddlesome and petty. IMO this Kirk stuff is all about SM and Bruce and what they think he's actually worth.

 

for all we know there is no Kirk stuff.  It is entirely possible they're just having regular negotiations right now

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

This seems to be revisionist history.  Maybe some fans and some in the media felt like it was a no-brainer to do a LTD last offseason, but the feeling around the league seemed to be that he was a 1-year wonder and that it would be foolish to pay him on a LTD like a top QB.  Hell, according to McCloughan, "everyone" (i.e. people around the league) was making fun of him for even giving Cousins the franchise tag:

 

 

I agree with this point.  I do get why they didn't sign him last year.  But I agree with the gist of her point which is other teams don't let their franchise Qbs walk out the door.  But like I said her point is premature.  I'd agree if it goes down that way.  I still think they will get it done.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

17 minutes ago, XtremeFan55 said:

Here is something else to chew on.  Brady stated that the one reason why he isn't ready to retire is because he now totally understands the game.  He has seen it all and no defense surprises him...so mentally he is at his peak.   Cousins could be that type of player based on what I have read over the years about his football intelligence.   The first camp his rookie year Garcon even said that Cousins mind is like a computer.   Brady is not considered athletic but cerebral.  I can see Cousins playing another 10 plus years whereas most of the other players on current roster will be long gone by then.  Cousins IMO will get better over time bcause he seems to fit the cerebral player type like Brady.   Maybe we need to follow the Patriot blue print and build around Cousins, hoard draft picks, keep drafting wisely and start letting players go while still in their peak years for draft picks.  A player like Reed would fit that category....trade for a number 2 pick before he gets another concussion.  

Did you really just suggest trading Reed?  Jesus H. Christ.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

57 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

This is just flat out stupid. You truly think that Dan is going to intentionally torpedo the team and overrule his GM just because he is butt hurt that RG3 didn't work out? If there's one thing we know Dan loves, it is winning. I don't think he cares what QB we do it with as long as it gets done. And I wouldn't see SM sticking around if Dan were being that meddlesome and petty. IMO this Kirk stuff is all about SM and Bruce and what they think he's actually worth.

 

You saved me a post lol...It's a little creepy that we actually have a handful of fans who truly believe that a lingering RG3 mancrush is the root of the evil they (think they) see. That this explanation makes perfect sense to them is...baffling. Let's say baffling.

[RemoveSnyder]

17 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

This seems to be revisionist history. 

 

The general consensus last year, from the talking heads, was that the 1 year franchise tag was mutually beneficial for both sides.

Or, at worst, not going to kill either side. 

 

If Jenkins could provide the timestamp article from before the season last year, where she called out the 1-year franchise prove it deal, where she unequivocally wrote how she would have offered the 20 million AAV, maybe even more, that the Skins were too stupid to do themselves, then I'd be more willing to accept her fire right about now.