The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[Taylor 36]

20 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

That's fine. But not likely just based on the statistics of it. As I said, you're talking about a generational QB in Brees. I think you may be setting yourself up for disappointment if you are expecting Kirk to be that good.

See, that's just it.  And, of course, you are entitled to your opinion, but beyond stats, if you go back and watch Brees in sand Diego, and even his first year or two in NO, he reminds me a lot of how Cousins looks.  My wife went to Purdue, so we watched a lot of Brees (still do, but not as much the last few years).  I see a lot of similarities in the two of them.

[Gibbit]

2 minutes ago, jphilly said:

FO should of never let this get to this point . Should not of let 2 Wrs hit FA while last years draft pick hurt all year . You start to see why cooley said what he did . 

they haven't hit FA yet and any way they play the jackson/garcon situation isn't going to be a big deal imo

[CapsSkins]

Honestly I think Kirk signs a LTD and DJax / Garcon are both gone. Might sign Kenny Britt. Sign Poe, Tony Jefferson and draft a RB at 17. Book it!

[goskins10]

12 minutes ago, jphilly said:

FO should of never let this get to this point . Should not of let 2 Wrs hit FA while last years draft pick hurt all year . You start to see why cooley said what he did . 

 

Nothing has actually happened yet. I posted this before, but will post it again - here is the list of NFL transactions. It's noticeably missing any major signings. This is nothing but fans over-reacting.

 

http://www.nfl.com/transactions

[onedrop]

15 minutes ago, jphilly said:

FO should of never let this get to this point . Should not of let 2 Wrs hit FA while last years draft pick hurt all year . You start to see why cooley said what he did . 

no, you dont. and there is no "point". nothing has occurred. absence of evidence isnt proof.

[mistertim]

10 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

See, that's just it.  And, of course, you are entitled to your opinion, but beyond stats, if you go back and watch Brees in sand Diego, and even his first year or two in NO, he reminds me a lot of how Cousins looks.  My wife went to Purdue, so we watched a lot of Brees (still do, but not as much the last few years).  I see a lot of similarities in the two of them.

 

Yes and there have been people on here who have said they see similarities between him and Brady, and Rodgers, and Peyton. Basically people just throwing out future 1st ballot HOFers and some of the best to ever play the game. And I wasn't taking about stats as in his football stats. I was talking about the statistical likelihood of ending up with one of the greatest QBs to ever play. It isn't especially good. And to be honest, if you wanted to you could probably find "similarities" between plenty of NFL QBs and some of the best to ever play. That doesn't necessarily mean they're actually as good or will end up as good. The chances are really slim.

 

And again, this isn't a slight against Kirk. There's nothing wrong with being a good QB who isn't or won't likely be as good as a Brees, Peyton, Brady, Rodgers, etc.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

24 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

A.  OK, we will dump Kirk Cousins, one of the more accurate and prolific passers in the NFL in the last 2 seasons.  And replace with a 30 something journeyman QB with a poor career QBR rating, history of injury, 60% career accuracy, almost 1:1 ratio of TDs and INTs.  And will sell it like heck its just about apples to apples.  

 

B.  Will say look Colt will have the weapons.  At the same time, the beat reporters are saying they are letting D. Jax and Garcon both leave.

 

C.  We will upgrade the D line but lets get that going by letting our best D lineman go in Baker.

 

Do people ever just get down on their knees and thank God that they know you and have access to your dimentia? 

 

I would almost have to give them credit for pulling off the full Costanza. 

 

Cant say I agree though, I'm still scared as hell. Don't really want them to tag and kick the can until July either. Just get it done now 

[mistertim]

15 minutes ago, Gibbit said:

they haven't hit FA yet and any way they play the jackson/garcon situation isn't going to be a big deal imo

 

Given Reed's inability to stay healthy I think it is a pretty big deal if we sign Kirk but lose DJax and Garcon. They're not Julio Jones but they are very good WRs who both play pretty big roles in the offense. Especially if Reed is out. We'd be thinning out our WR group considerably. I think Kirk losing a couple of his best weapons could have some pretty negative consequences. Again, especially if Reed still can't stay healthy. At that point our best receiving threat would be Crowder. Don't get me wrong, I love Crowder and he is fast becoming one of the best slot guys in the league. But you'd be losing the guys who compliment him and make the receiving corp very well rounded and quite good.

[Gibbit]

13 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Given Reed's inability to stay healthy I think it is a pretty big deal if we sign Kirk but lose DJax and Garcon. They're not Julio Jones but they are very good WRs who both play pretty big roles in the offense. Especially if Reed is out. We'd be thinning out our WR group considerably. I think Kirk losing a couple of his best weapons could have some pretty negative consequences. Again, especially if Reed still can't stay healthy. At that point our best receiving threat would be Crowder. Don't get me wrong, I love Crowder and he is fast becoming one of the best slot guys in the league. But you'd be losing the guys who compliment him and make the receiving corp very well rounded and quite good.

the doctson videos in the twitter thread are looking promising.

 

Just seems receivers are one of the easier positions to find replacements in this league atm.

 

doesn't mean I want them gone, just saying whatever happens probably wont end in disaster

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

Honestly I think Kirk signs a LTD and DJax / Garcon are both gone. Might sign Kenny Britt. Sign Poe, Tony Jefferson and draft a RB at 17. Book it!

 

I can see both Wrs gone, maybe even Baker, too.  But hard for me to see all of that plus trading Kirk and or just renting him for one year.  That's IMO nuclear level PR suicide.  

 

The only FAs linked to the team rumor wise thus far are Britt and Logan.  So agree Britt might be in play.  I like Tony Jefferson but he seems more like a SS than a FS.  I bet Poe might be too scary of a signing (with his ballooning weight) for Scot post Pot Roast so I think more likely: Hankins, Campbell or Logan.  

 

Veering off on a different point but related.   The idea that the FO would let all our major FAs go and trade Kirk too or just rent him -- I've seen some back this notion by saying can you imagine what they will do with all that extra cash.  They can use that extra money to buy all these guys.   Ok but that doesn't fly with Scot's style.  He's said that he doesn't fully trust FA and there are issues with it among them team chemistry.   I don't see anything about Scot's background that would lead me to believe that he's thinking ok we've had two winning records back to back -- but screw it, lets blow it all up.   And lets use all that extra cash to make the Eagles Dream team from years back look like nothing -- we will get Poe, Hankins, and Logan!  We will get Britt and Stills!   It just doesn't add up to me.  It's not his style

[carex]

19 minutes ago, Gibbit said:

the doctson videos in the twitter thread are looking promising.

 

Just seems receivers are one of the easier positions to find replacements in this league atm.

 

doesn't mean I want them gone, just saying whatever happens probably wont end in disaster

 

How quickly we forget.  THe Skins haven't drafted a truly excellent receiver since Art Monk and Garcon and Jackson are about the only FA we've gotten in their primes.  We struggled for years to find someone to pair with Santana Moss

[Gibbit]

7 minutes ago, carex said:

 

How quickly we forget.  THe Skins haven't drafted a truly excellent receiver since Art Monk and Garcon and Jackson are about the only FA we've gotten in their primes.  We struggled for years to find someone to pair with Santana Moss

new era?

hell call rg3 see if he can catch

 

really though I don't want to diminish garcon and desean's worth. Just saying not the end of the world

[carex]

Just now, Gibbit said:

new era?

hell call rg3 see if he can catch

the Redskins version of Terelle Pryor huh?  Still I'm not sure SM's track record on WR

[jphilly]

People tend to forget that other FAs and their agents watch how teams FO handle players . Yes people like pay days but some do care about how they will be treated and job security .  FO has made a mess of things by not locking up key members of the team sooner . Garcon , Djax and Kirk are all part of a puzzle . They fit together and make each other whole .  Djax and Gracon could be waiting to see what happens with Kirk and Vice versa .

[skinfan2k]

garçon and jackson dont even crack the top 20 WRs in football.  Garcon is a glue guy i would like to keep but he is replaceable 

[Gibbit]

6 minutes ago, jphilly said:

People tend to forget that other FAs and their agents watch how teams FO handle players . Yes people like pay days but some do care about how they will be treated and job security .  FO has made a mess of things by not locking up key members of the team sooner . Garcon , Djax and Kirk are all part of a puzzle . They fit together and make each other whole .  Djax and Gracon could be waiting to see what happens with Kirk and Vice versa .

the mess was made when we traded up for Robert. The amount we spent on him demanded we spend more time trying than we should have.

 

This is all a byproduct of that and we are really LUCKY to even have this opportunity

 

even if we cant sign kirk and we trade him or something...we are lucky for whatever we get

[jphilly]

5 minutes ago, skinfan2k said:

garçon and jackson dont even crack the top 20 WRs in football.  Garcon is a glue guy i would like to keep but he is replaceable 

 

stats are not everything  . Like i said look at them as pieces to a puzzle which is part of the offense 

[Veryoldschool]

5 hours ago, jschuck12001 said:

I just don't buy the news that Dan and Bruce are the ones who don't want to sign KC.  If this is the case I expect SM to resign immediately, why would SM put his reputation on the line for 2 guys who will undermine it.

 

If Dan and Bruce are the ones behind this move then SM should pack his desk and run as fast as he can.

 

 

 

SM's reputation?  As I understand SM's history he lost his last two jobs because his drinking.  As a guy that had to give up drinking myself I wish him well.  I've been sober over 35 years so I know life is much better sober and hope reports that he is having issues are unfounded.  But that said, while I believe he has a reputation for being a good evaluator I'm not sure SM is in a position to walk and expect to immediately pick up another NFL job.  I suppose he could reconstruct his consulting practice but clearly the best career path for SM is to help the Redskins win.

[skinfan2k]

1 minute ago, jphilly said:

 

stats are not everything  . Like a said look at them as pieces to a puzzle which is part of the offense 

Dude i agree and i think if Kirk is thinking about a LTD, he wants a legitimate veteran WR back.  If both are gone, he will play on the tag, and bolt next year because we won't make the playoffs and Dan will fire everyone.

[Skinsinparadise]

48 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

Do people ever just get down on their knees and thank God that they know you and have access to your dimentia? 

 

I would almost have to give them credit for pulling off the full Costanza. 

 

Cant say I agree though, I'm still scared as hell. Don't really want them to tag and kick the can until July either. Just get it done now 

 

Yep the dementia line from Seinfeld also on point -- maybe that one is Danny?   The conversation made me turn on TBS and watch an episode.    I am a bit nervous too but I do truly think the Kirk deal will get done.   The team if anything historically is aware of public perception and PR because the bottom line is selling season tickets and merchandise.  Letting Kirk go is so IMO obviously outrageous that I'd assume they get it big time in that building.  

 

The team was close to being a force last season even with a pathetic defense -- and the idea now is to blow up the team's strength?   Yeah I know some beat reporters are saying that's exactly what's going to happen.  But I'll believe it when I see it.  For now, I am hanging on Bruce's word -- JLC's report and the beat reporters who in their mix of negative news concede that this team tends to do their deals right against deadlines typically and often don't get going until the combine. 

[RemoveSnyder]

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

I meant "unless" as in the only way we'd likely keep him past 2017 if he decided to play on a 2017 franchise tag is if we are willing to pay him over $34 million in 2018. And I do not see that happening at all.

 

What would the other options be? Honestly curious. If we did a non-exclusive tag and tried to trade him he'd probably just sign it and play again in 2018 for $34 million.

 

The transition tag applies.  https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/collective-bargaining-agreement-2011-2020.pdf

In lieu of designating such a player as a Franchise Player for the third time, any Club may designate such player as a Transition Player pursuant to Section 3 below.

 

So, it isn't quite as expensive as the NEFT.

2017 NEFT: 19.95 x 120% = 23.94

2018 NEFT: 23.94 x 144% = 34.47 

2018 .... TT: 23.94 x 120% = 28.72 

 

The transition tag however brings matters to forefront in that other teams can table offers without having to be on the hook for the two 1st's as mandated by the NEFT. The Redskins have right of 1st refusal but if they don't match, they don't get compensation, clearly. But it also means that an outside team is writing the long term contract for the Redskins instead of the Redskins. But, after all, the Skins could match the offer and Cousins is finally on a long term contract.

 

Ideally the long term contract is done here in 2017, personally. 

[JSSkinz]

8 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

SM's reputation?  As I understand SM's history he lost his last two jobs because his drinking.  As a guy that had to give up drinking myself I wish him well.  I've been sober over 35 years so I know life is much better sober and hope reports that he is having issues are unfounded.  But that said, while I believe he has a reputation for being a good evaluator I'm not sure SM is in a position to walk and expect to immediately pick up another NFL job.  I suppose he could reconstruct his consulting practice but clearly the best career path for SM is to help the Redskins win.

 

 

 

The only thing I have heard about him drinking is an off the cuff comment by Cooley so I'm throwing that out the window as BS and just looking at it from a football standpoint.

 

I don't see why you would want to work under someone (Bruce) who picked you to do a specific job and then let him override you on one of the most important franchise decisions in decades, one that will affect SM's track record and possible legacy.

 

Congrats on your years of sobriety, it's not easy to maintain when you're a Skins fan.

[skins island connection]

 just read another BS story on of all places Yahoo, mentioning the possible Cousins going to SF.

 

 I am at the point now where I just say **** it, whatever happens happens.  I've grown tired of Cousins calling himself a 'christian' then turn around and play the greed card, a big no-no in sin. Its to the point where its really turning me off football, and that's something I never thought I'd ever ever say.

 

This whole 'team' B.S. and 'looking out for future QBs coming into the league' by using that platform to base his justification for what he believes he should be paid. These guys, even the ones on NFL minimum salaries, make far more per year than most people in America, some in a regular Joe's entire life, and get paid to do something they did for the love of it as kids, are now demanding to be paid outrageous monies, and usually that very same player ends up tanking after 'getting paid'.  It's really sickening to witness, and takes football into a dark alley on a cold rainy night in the wrong part of town.

 

With that being said, one other little tidbit to keep in front of your cerebellum, is the very likelihood that if the current QB that wants this huge payday does go elsewhere, the team will have a QB to play the game. will he be as good? Worse? Better? No one knows, but one thing I do know, is IF this other QB plays pretty well, and delivers a similar record and somewhat similar stats, guess what?  He will have followed the other guy's footsteps and will also demand to be one of the highest paid QBs in the game, and then it will be time to put more quarters into the control box to continue to make the merry-go-round moving, while further depleting the fundamentals of what this game used to be and why it was played; for the real honest love of the game.

 

My apologies for this rant, I've just lost most of my respect for this game called football, may as well take up underwater basket-weaving...

[Jumbo]

gibbett

gibbett

[mistertim]

21 minutes ago, skinfan2k said:

garçon and jackson dont even crack the top 20 WRs in football.  Garcon is a glue guy i would like to keep but he is replaceable 

 

On their own they aren't necessarily world beaters but they make up important parts of a very well rounded WR corps. DJax is still a top deep threat and can take the top off a defense and demands attention. Garcon is a really good possession/YAC guy. Crowder is quickly becoming an elite slot receiver. And Reed is an elite pass catching tight end (when healthy). So while none of them is a Julio/Megatron sort, they all compliment each other really well. We know that Kirk's numbers dropped pretty significantly when he didn't have Reed. Imagine what would happen if Reed was out again and he didn't have Garcon and DJax to help take up the slack? I think things could go south fast.