The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[Gizmo 3squire]

1 minute ago, goskins10 said:

 

That take was given to you by the same idiots who when talking about potential FAs for each team stated:

 

Washington Redskins: Dontari Poe, defensive tackle

The Redskins have almost been too quiet in free agency lately. This is a sneakily pressure-packed offseason, with GM Scot McCloughan needing to make a lot of roster upgrades on defense while the team likely says goodbye to its starting wideouts. Poe will be expensive, but he's no Albert Haynesworth. That's a good thing.

 

Keep in mind this is also the same bunch of ****ing idiots who also said he Redskins way over-paid for Norman and were stupid to sign Jackson.

 

So now the team is too quite? But yet the team signed two big FAs recently. But did not go on big shopping sprees - you know like the ones the team used to do that landed us not only in last place but in CAP hell. How do you think we get $70M in CAP space?

 

Please, don't buy into their ignorance.

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

6 minutes ago, srtman04 said:

 

Yeah there's just way too much smoke for my liking.  What are the chances of all of it being 100% false?

 

There really isn't any smoke, though. There are some people yelling "FIRE!" though...or more accurately, "I THINK THERE COULD BE A FIRE ANY DAY NOW!"

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

8 minutes ago, srtman04 said:

 

Yeah there's just way too much smoke for my liking.  What are the chances of all of it being 100% false?

 

It's one possibility out of multiple possibilities.  

 

1.  We tag him and trade him this year for draft picks

2.  We tag him and match another teams offer and sign him to a LTD

3.  Kirk signs the FT and plays one more year under it

4.  Kirk signs the FT and then signs a LTD with us

5.  Kirk doesn't sign the tag and holds out (won't happen)

 

Not going to break down every scenario by each of the three tags, but you get the gist.  The reporter is just basing his assumption on the fact the Redskins might think signing him to a LTD will never happen and would be willing to cash out now and get draft picks from it instead of putting it off until next year where they would be faced with having to let him walk (and get nothing) or apply the transition tag (which still might let him walk depending on other team offers or pay him 28.7 mil for one year) or the FT again (which would be stupid given the $34.5 mil/ one year price).

 

 

[Veryoldschool]

46 minutes ago, Gizmo 3squire said:

Opinion: Cousin's won't nearly be as productive as he is/was on any other team if he leaves.

 

Do you think Kyle S. or McVey feel this way?

 

This might be the core problem the Redskin management and fans don't value their own.  Sally Jenkins is right, the Skins panted during their pursuit of Norman and made him the highest paid CB in the league.  Norman is performing, thankfully it is not a Fat Albert situation but if Norman who never played for the Skins warrants 75M  and 50M guaranteed why didn't Cousins warrant a 100M after his record breaking 2015 season?  Why doesn't he deserve 125M now?  They should trade Norman and put a 10M guy at CB and give Cousins the 5M premium they are giving Norman because Cousins has a much bigger impact on their success.

 

Cousins made the system work well with these receivers and this line when McCoy and Griffin sputtered.  Kirk's quick mind and accurate, strong arm will go with him if they don't lock him up and I think with a balanced team he'd do even better.  Imagine how he'd do playing with a team that had a strong running game? How about with a team that has a strong defense so he didn't have to win track meets?  How would Cousins do on a team that had a receiver that is a good fade target in the Red Zone?  Cousins can throw a good fade so I think he could he'd kill it.  They Skins have a nice ensemble cast of receivers nobody to throw a fade in the endzone. Garcon isn't a good fade target, he's not that tall or jump well  and Jackson is useless.  Other than Reed when the Redskin receivers run out of open space they aren't that potent.  Part of the problem is opponents can drop linebackers to cut off slant routes because no one fears the Skins running game in the red zone.

 

 

[Rattlesnake88]

2 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Kirk throws to everyone as you say because he thinks quick enough to read a coverage, understand who is going to be open so he gets it to the right guy on time. Others had opportunities to throw to these same receivers and were far less productive. Why doesn't a guy with a quicker mind impress people as much as a guy with quick feet?  

 

 

You are right. But Gruden runs a good offense regardless. I would like to add that Kirk's pretty quick himself lol.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

8 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Do you think Kyle S. or McVey feel this way?

 

This might be the core problem the Redskin management and fans don't value their own.  Sally Jenkins is right, the Skins panted during their pursuit of Norman and made him the highest paid CB in the league.  Norman is performing, thankfully it is not a Fat Albert situation but if Norman who never played for the Skins warrants 75M  and 50M guaranteed why didn't Cousins warrant a 100M after his record breaking 2015 season? 

 

Because the Redskins are in total control. With Norman, the Skins had zero control, other than their offer to him.

[Wildbunny]

38 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

The Redskins have almost been too quiet in free agency lately.

Damn! FA period has started?!

 

I thought that was supposed to start on March the 9th at 4 pm...

 

As you said @goskins10 those idiots are... well... idiots...

[markmills67]

52 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Could not agree more. Somehow the Redskins are supposed to make moves differently than any other team in the NFL. Deadlines make things happen. There is zero advantage to either the team or Kirk to do anything until the deadline is here. And BTW for those who keep not wanting to come to this realization - the real deadline is July 15th, not March 1st or March 15th or April 28th.  It's July 15th. I will believe it's a final decision then. Until that date everything is still on the table.

 

Again, as CTskin stated and I stated twice yesterday --> No NFL team has made any significant transactions at this point: NFL transactions: http://www.nfl.com/transactions 

 

The team is finally acting like a responsible front office and people are losing their collective minds.

But FA starts March 9th and it would be better if we knew what we were doing with Cousins before then, like I've said before if we don't know by now whether we are giving Cousins a LTD we never will. Just pay or trade him then we can move on.

 

HTTR 

[KokoMike]

If Shanahan wants Cousins, and Cousins wants Shanahan, it would make sense for the Redskins to allow Cousins agent to negotiate a new contract with the 49ers.  At the same time, the Redskins and 49ers can negotiate a trade to include something better than two # 1 picks.  

 

It really is all on Cousins.  If he wants to go, go.  It makes no sense to keep a player who doesn't want to be here.  If he wants to stay, he will be welcome, set for life, in any and every regard:

 

Regarding the crowd that threatens to quit unless the Redskins sign Cousins for any price, like a Luck-type 6 year, $130 million, with 90 million guaranteed, relax.  You know you can have Cousins for under $25 million this year.  You know the Redskins can transition tag him next year for under $29 million, and match any insane offer.

 

Winning cures a lot of ills.

 

 

[purbeast]

1 hour ago, CTskin said:

I hate DC sports media. I really do. I think I'm going to come into this topic every day and repeat the same thing- there are no truths to the nonsense stories, everything you're reading is opinion. It's like the reporters in this market feel like they don't have a story until they get a good smear campaign going. I always want to punch Feinstein when he comes on the Junks, but he really deserved it this morning.

 

It seems like people are just so ancy with the Cousins situation that they're not comprehending the fact that no teams have made a move. No big names have been tagged or re-signed. Just take a deep breath, take a step back, and understand this part of the process. No one's shirking their duties, the FO isn't in complete disarray, this is just a combination of dumb reporting and impatience. 

What happened with Feinstein this morning?  I used to enjoy listening to him but now I can't stand him unless the segment is basically a trainwreck, like when him and Lurch went at it during the elections.  He's such a jackass.  Is there any audio clip of this from earlier today?  Cousins related I'm assuming.

[Cliffmark1]

What nfl article?

[onedrop]

44 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

PO

was just joking on you because its all been said a thousand times in this thread already. seriously, go back through and see for yourself.

 

 

[goskins10]

12 minutes ago, markmills67 said:

But FA starts March 9th and it would be better if we knew what we were doing with Cousins before then, like I've said before if we don't know by now whether we are giving Cousins a LTD we never will. Just pay or trade him then we can move on.

 

HTTR 

 

It would be nice for the fans to know. The players understand this is a business so for the most part they could care less. Also, while courting FAs you don't think they will tell them their plan? They just want to know they have a plan.

 

But let's say what you are implying is 100% correct and no FA would dare come to the Redskins without knowing what's going on with the QB position - unless there has been a time warp, it's still Feb 24th. So even March 9th is several weeks away. Sorry, but the panic over nothing happening right now is irrational. Again, they know it's a business and July 15th is that date.

 

I believe any FA who wants to make their decision based solely on Kirk Cousins being here or not is not someone I really want here. They should want to be here because they believe they can make a difference on the team and because they have faith in the FO to do that right thing, no matter what that is.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

45 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Do you think Kyle S. or McVey feel this way?

 

This might be the core problem the Redskin management and fans don't value their own.  Sally Jenkins is right, the Skins panted during their pursuit of Norman and made him the highest paid CB in the league.  Norman is performing, thankfully it is not a Fat Albert situation but if Norman who never played for the Skins warrants 75M  and 50M guaranteed why didn't Cousins warrant a 100M after his record breaking 2015 season?  Why doesn't he deserve 125M now?  They should trade Norman and put a 10M guy at CB and give Cousins the 5M premium they are giving Norman because Cousins has a much bigger impact on their success.

 

Cousins made the system work well with these receivers and this line when McCoy and Griffin sputtered.  Kirk's quick mind and accurate, strong arm will go with him if they don't lock him up and I think with a balanced team he'd do even better.  Imagine how he'd do playing with a team that had a strong running game? How about with a team that has a strong defense so he didn't have to win track meets?  How would Cousins do on a team that had a receiver that is a good fade target in the Red Zone?  Cousins can throw a good fade so I think he could he'd kill it.  They Skins have a nice ensemble cast of receivers nobody to throw a fade in the endzone. Garcon isn't a good fade target, he's not that tall or jump well  and Jackson is useless.  Other than Reed when the Redskin receivers run out of open space they aren't that potent.  Part of the problem is opponents can drop linebackers to cut off slant routes because no one fears the Skins running game in the red zone.

 

 

 

  No they shouldn't and they won't.  We need to lock down Kirk and at least one WR (Garcon is my first choice) and improve on defense in FA and the draft......and there is plenty of cap space to do all three of those.  What Josh gets paid is irrelevant, imo, it's a different position on the other side of the ball.  Josh's contract has zero impact on paying Kirk given the current cap situation.

 

It would be one thing if we had no money to spend, but that isn't the case at all.  Since Kirk's side won't negotiate/sign a LTD until after the tag is applied again, it's pointless to blame the Redskins for not signing him to a LTD yet, they can't, Kirk won't negotiate until the FT is signed again and they can use that figure to start the negotiations with ($23.9 mil/yr).  And since it's not after March 1st, we have no idea what the Redskins are willing to pay.  

 

Come July 1st and there is no LTD in place then worry and blame.  You're not even giving them a chance to sign him LT and none of us know what Kirk's side will be asking for anyhow in terms of guaranteed money, signing bonus, etc.  The Skins could offer him what he wants and then they ask for more, or for it to be 90% fully guaranteed, etc.  forcing the deal into a stalemate.  Or the Skins could lowball him again.  Anything can happen, but you have to at least give them a chance.

 

Edit:  They didn't offer him what he wanted last year because they wanted one more year to make sure it wasn't a fluke.  This is the most important position in football and before you pay, you better be pretty dang sure that the guy is legit.  Turns out he was.  But if bad Kirk happened in 2016 after they signed him to a LTD, same people complaining now would be complaining that we should have let him play under the tag one more year.

[Veryoldschool]

40 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Because the Redskins are in total control. With Norman, the Skins had zero control, other than their offer to him.

 

Do you feel the Skins feel in control now?  Unless the discussions behind closed doors between the Skins and Kirk's agent are a lot more cordial and productive with an agreement with in reach I doubt the Skins feel in control.  Cousins called their bluff last year and won and clearly is in the drivers seat today.

[jphilly]

It would of been smart of the FO to lock up Kirk before the season ended . Who knows maybe they tried but I think they chose to wait in hopes that they could pay less.  Right now the only thing they have on him is he has not won a game in Post season , thats more a team issue then a KC issue though .  Yes there is plenty of cap space , but what is the real reason to that ? Is it because the FO is smart with money ? Is it less and less FAs want to come to the team ? 

 

I brought this up on a earlier post. Some players just care about being paid , others care about job security. the FO does not have the best record with players and the Kirk Cousin 's thing might not sit well with them . All the teams move are probably based on KC  and cant make other decisions until that is done .  Like Garcon and Djax .   

[CTskin]

6 minutes ago, purbeast said:

What happened with Feinstein this morning?  I used to enjoy listening to him but now I can't stand him unless the segment is basically a trainwreck, like when him and Lurch went at it during the elections.  He's such a jackass.  Is there any audio clip of this from earlier today?  Cousins related I'm assuming.

Haha man I'd love to lock him and Lurch in a room together for a day. This morning was calm, cool, and collected, but he regurgitated just about every Redskins smear article that's come out this off-season and completely bought into them. Pretty much made it sound like Danny has the reigns and we're a clownshow again. It doesn't help that EB believes and then proceeds to freak out about everything he hears. So, in the end we're left with an audience whose completely misguided. 

[Gizmo 3squire]

5 minutes ago, jphilly said:

It would of been smart of the FO to lock up Kirk before the season ended . Who knows maybe they tried but I think they chose to wait in hopes that they could pay less.  Right now the only thing they have on him is he has not won a game in Post season , thats more a team issue then a KC issue though .  Yes there is plenty of cap space , but what is the real reason to that ? Is it because the FO is smart with money ? Is it less and less FAs want to come to the team ? 

 

I brought this up on a earlier post. Some players just care about being paid , others care about job security. the FO does not have the best record with players and the Kirk Cousin 's thing might not sit well with them . All the teams move are probably based on KC  and cant make other decisions until that is done .  Like Garcon and Djax .   

 

I definitely feel like had we had a playoff berth at least, that would've locked KC up. I said it the moment we lost that he could've thrown away his chance to get a LTD in Washington or it was gonna be like pulling teeth.

[purbeast]

4 minutes ago, Gizmo 3squire said:

 

I definitely feel like had we had a playoff berth at least, that would've locked KC up. I said it the moment we lost that he could've thrown away his chance to get a LTD in Washington or it was gonna be like pulling teeth.

Which is so dumb, because if Kirk played the entire season the SAME EXACT WAY 100% as he did in 2016, but Hopkins makes a fieldgoal in Europe, and made the playoffs, regardless of how Kirk did in the playoffs, I too believe there wouldn't even be this discussion going on right and everyone in the NFL market would know that the Redskins are going to sign him to a long term deal.

[jphilly]

7 minutes ago, Gizmo 3squire said:

 

I definitely feel like had we had a playoff berth at least, that would've locked KC up. I said it the moment we lost that he could've thrown away his chance to get a LTD in Washington or it was gonna be like pulling teeth.

 

but thats why it was a team issue not a KC one . If FO holds that against him then Im sorry ... they deserve to go back in basement for a few years .

[Gizmo 3squire]

1 minute ago, purbeast said:

Which is so dumb, because if Kirk played the entire season the SAME EXACT WAY 100% as he did in 2016, but Hopkins makes a fieldgoal in Europe, and made the playoffs, regardless of how Kirk did in the playoffs, I too believe there wouldn't even be this discussion going on right and everyone in the NFL market would know that the Redskins are going to sign him to a long term deal.

 

Exactly. That would've sealed the deal imo. If the FO were still being what they are today in regards to the ltd, even if KC and Co. made the playoffs then there would be reason for outrage imo. But just a opinion, I think that  loss and the lack of a berth weighs in the current impasse we have today. Hopkins and the Defense will be rectified, but this is the biggest hurdle because there's a sense of uncertainty, which is understandable regardless of what the KC supporters say.

4 minutes ago, jphilly said:

but thats why it was a team issue not a KC one . If FO holds that against him then Im sorry ... they deserve to go back in basement for a few years .

 

 

They shouldn't, but he can't be absolve of blame either. With that being said they shouldn't lowball him. On the flip side, Cousins needs to understand that as well that they have needs. Again just speculation, but both parties need to come to an understanding.

[jphilly]

5 minutes ago, Gizmo 3squire said:

 

Exactly. That would've sealed the deal imo. If the FO were still being what they are today in regards to the ltd, even if KC and Co. made the playoffs then there would be reason for outrage imo. But just a opinion, I think that  loss and the lack of a berth weighs in the current impasse we have today. Hopkins and the Defense will be rectified, but this is the biggest hurdle because there's a sense of uncertainty, which is understandable regardless of what the KC supporters say.

 

 

They shouldn't, but he can't be absolve of blame either. With that being said they shouldn't lowball him. On the flip side, Cousins needs to understand that as well that they have needs. Again just speculation, but both parties need to come to an understanding.

 

 

no one really knows what was offered or rejected . We do know last year was 16 m range . So after having another great year and both agreeing to prove it ... it should be done by now .  Its not Kirks fault the defense was giving up points  , not his fault the Defense let teams score again when Kirk leaves field in lead . 

 

DOnt get me wrong either , Kirk can improve a lot as well . But he has only had the keys for 2 years now . 2 more years and who knows where he will be at . But again not Kirks fault but FO .  They were ones that drafted RG3 and held on to him to long . thats why rookie deals are 4 years and have a 5th year option to evaluate. 

 

The FO instead of being scared should bless there lucky stars that Kirk was drafted . Could you imagine how bad it would be to still be in QB hell ? 

[srtman04]

1 hour ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

Normally I would respond to talk like this with 

 

 

but seriously, you have to understand that it is a business first and us fans have zero clue about what is being said/done/offered/etc. in these contract negotiations.  We don't know enough to blame one side or the other.  

 

And it's all guesswork at this point.  Article is nothing more than me or you or any poster speculating that we might trade him this year based on nothing but what we think might happen.

 

I just don't have the warm and fuzzy.   There's way to much speculation going on that all sounds similiar for at least some of it to be true.  Once the solid facts come out, I'll react accordingly.  

[XtremeFan55]

For those thinking that the Redskins have until July 15th to trade Cousins are not thinking straight.  First...when FA season opens the cap money gets spent fast.  No one will keep an extra $25 million of so around just in case Cousins becomes available at the last minute AND would agree to a long term deal to play for them.  Cleveland doesn't haven't a chance.  Second...the longer it drags out espcially if it drags out past the Draft, the less the Redskins will recieve in return.  Before the Draft, the Redskins will know exactly what they are getting and they will receive a return during 2017 season.   Meaning...if the 49ers offer the number 2 pick in this draft then the Redskins get an impact player immediately.   Waiting until after the draft means getting a future pick and not only not knowing where that pick will land since the 49ers could surprise people and make the playoffs...but it also means that the Redskins get no help this year.  I am inclined to agree with David Jeremiah that the 49ers could make a deal during the Combine giving the Redskins their number 2 pick in exchange for Cousins and their number 17 pick.  Whoever trades for Cousins has to know beforehand that Cousins will sign with them or else they end up giving up a high draft pick plus pay $24 million for a one year rental.  That will NEVER happen.  Period.  Only place I can see Cousins going to is the 49ers.   The Rams doesn't seem logical after what they gave up to draft Goff.   49ers..either this year for the number 2 pick...or next year for nothing.  

[XtremeFan55]

To add to my last post.  I think this gets resolved before Free agency begins because it then gives the Rdskins the freedom to go after the prime FA players immediately instead of waiting on Cousins to make up his mind.