The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[CapsSkins]

3 hours ago, onedrop said:

I must have missed that one, I'd sure like to see it though. if you can help out with that it'd be great.

Cousins texted that to me

 

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

While technically true that he does not have to sign the tag, he has to sit out and make nothing from anyone and miss a year of football. That would be stupid, especially when there is $24M involved.

 

As for a trade, it goes easier if he plays along. However, let's say they tag him and he signs it. As long as Kirk get's $24M from someone it does not matter from who. So he could be traded whether wanted it or not if the Redskins found a partner. Again, it may not be as favorable as it would be if he cooperates, but it doesn't stop the team completely.

 

I  point that cali is rightly making is that the team is not as "screwed" as people ae making them out to be. Kirk has advantages but the team is not helpless here in any way and does control their own destiny here outside Kirk being willing to give up $24M and a year of football in his prime.

 

 

Only way we get anything decent for Kirk in a trade is if he is willing to agree a long term deal with the trading team. No team is giving a decent pick or set of picks for a one year 24mil rental. Kirk can influence his trade destination IMO.

 

I agree that he wouldn't sit out and forgo 24mil, that would be stupid. That tag totally works in his favour though for 2018. Doesn't provide our organisation with any stability whatsoever. Doesn't do anything for the reputation of our FO guys either.

 

Appreciate this debate is going around in circles, and we don't have any facts to support opinion, it's all down to personal interpretation of the circumstances. I happen to think our FO let this matter slip away from them last year and this year we are backed in a corner. I think members of the FO are already working on self preservation and damage limitation. More than happy to be proved wrong.

39 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

Cousins texted that to me

 

 

Kurt 

[RemoveSnyder]

Man I miss the good ole days when Kirk was comp'd to Vladimir Lenin. 

How times change. 

[Taylor 36]

1 hour ago, CapsSkins said:

Cousins texted that to me

 

Sorry to quote the screen capture here, but it is necessary for my point.  Our QB's name is KIRK, not KURT.  Nice try at a fake text.  Fake News reigning supreme around here, I guess. 

[benskins26]

10 hours ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

 

That on the 1st play of the 1st game of 2017, Cousins drops back to pass and his arm falls off.

Guaranteed 23.94 million? Yes.

Will he ever see a LTC? No.

 

That the long term contract would guarantee more than 23.94, 60 million for example, on a 5yr @ 21 - 24 AAV.

So, 1st play, 1st game, arm falls off ... guaranteed 60 million on LTC instead of franchise tag. 

 

Maybe I'm missing the logical loophole here ...? But playing again on the 1yr tag is still a gamble for Cousins.

 

Besides injury, I'd also add- let's say we don't resign djax or garçon. Go defense heavy in draft and FA. Let's just say for sake of argument TW gets IRd at beginning of season. Think Kirk is still putting up 5000 yards? What if he has a disastrous year? Then he gambled on himself again and lost over a few million dollars. 

 

Im in sales, so I'm pretty much always gambling on myself, and I have huge potential at any given moment. But if my boss came to me and offered me 4 years of a guarantee at 90% of my current comp plan but I have to give up those potential large pops, yeah, I'm signing that immediately. 

 

So i dont know if the skins necessarily have leverage, but there is absolutely incentive to sign a LTD- and I'll bet his agent is counting the money too. If I were his agent I would want to cash the check, not wait another year where anything can happen. Back to the sales analogy, I just lost a massive deal over 5% difference at the table. My boss wouldn't budge, I put my foot in the sand, they walked. Might have ruined my year. 5%. When you're that close, just get the deal done no matter what. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Good summary for me as to Kirk-Colt drill

 

http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington-redskins/need-know-redskins-week-was-trade-winds-cousins-vs-mccoy

 

Can McCoy produce similar results at less cost than Cousins? With Colt McCoy under contract for $3 million and a potential Cousins tag costing nearly $24 million some at Redskins Park are wondering if Cousins is eight times better than McCoy and if he’s not, why pay him? This is kind of a silly question, like asking if Trent Williams is 15 times better than Ty Nsekhe or if Josh Norman is 20 times better than Kendall Fuller. The question is, does that player at that key position good enough to play his part in getting the team into the playoffs? McCoy hasn’t proven that he is, while Cousins has been to the playoffs once and just missed last year. The proven ability to do something counts for a lot in the form of the number of zeros in a player’s paycheck.

[bowhunter]

The Radio silence from the FO should probably end soon if they truly want to keep KC. For a man who's stated that he wants to play where he's "wanted" Ashburn has done little to publicly state that they do.

[Est.1974]

Colt won't be our starter. If it's not Kirk it will be another NFL vet we have acquired.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Colt won't be our starter. If it's not Kirk it will be another NFL vet we have acquired.

 

I think they get it done with Kirk on a long term contract but if not the beat reporters are pretty consistent-just about hardcore on the point that Colt is the man and they also draft someone. Saying some in that building really really like Colt.

[Gibbit]

21 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

The Radio silence from the FO should probably end soon if they truly want to keep KC. For a man who's stated that he wants to play where he's "wanted" Ashburn has done little to publicly state that they do.

There was an interview schedule posted somewhere that showed nobody from Redskins was talking at the combine. I actually love that theyve gone full Belichick. DC media is full of trolls....don't feed the trolls (not just dc actually, nfl media hates us)

 

Still they could get one of those planes that pull the banners like you see in obx, that say "we luv u KC", a van load of flowers and balloons to the office, or some other proposal/valentine pda

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think they get it done with Kirk on a long term contract but if not the beat reporters are pretty consistent-just about hardcore on the point that Colt is the man and they also draft someone. Saying some in that building really really like Colt.

 

God is there anyone you'd want to draft out of this class? It gets even worse lower down. 

 

Hail. 

[Bang]

Honestly, I'd rather see what Sudfeld can do over Colt.

I think Colt is a fine backup, but as a 16 game starter, I don't see it. Sudfeld, i have no idea. Maybe he can.

If it comes down to that it is almost certain we will not contend for postseason, and then the season is just a long extended audition. May as well see what Scott and Jay like in him.

 

~Bang

[Skinsinparadise]

36 minutes ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

God is there anyone you'd want to draft out of this class? It gets even worse lower down. 

 

Hail. 

 

Not for me either.  Trubisky has skills -- mobility, accuracy, arm strength.   But 13 college starts?  And to take him it would likely to have to be via landing SF's #2 pick.  If they trade Kirk and basically swap him for Trubisky or Trubisky and change -- to me that's a cringe worthy gamble.  He seems the opposite of the profile of Scot's typical first rounder:  13 starts, a junior, and played mostly against inferior competition.  You got Kizer -- big dude, strong arm but accuracy? (sub-60% completion rate).  I don't seem him as an easy fit for Jay's WCO.  And Watson is flashy but inconsistent -- throws a lot of INTs, seems raw, when I watch him to my eyes he's mostly a first read guy -- doesn't seem like a Jay type of Qb either.  Mahomes -- spread system QB with a lot of talent (elite arm strength with mobility) but seems raw.

 

If I had to guess one maybe Peterson in the 2nd round -- the guy ironically who was compared some to Kirk in the Senior Bowl.  I haven't really watched him much aside from noticing him Senior Bowl week.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Not me.  Trubisky has skills -- mobility, accuracy, arm strength.   But 13 college starts?  And to take him it would likely to have to be via landing SF's #2 pick.  If they trade Kirk and basically swap him for Trubisky or Trubisky and change -- to me that's a cringe worthy gamble.  He seems the opposite of the profile of Scot's typical first rounder:  13 starts, a junior, and played mostly against inferior competition.  You got Kizer -- big dude but not accurate.  I don't seem him as an easy fit for Jay's WCO.  And Watson is flashy but inconsistent -- throws a lot of INTs, seems raw, when I watch him to my eyes he's mostly a first read guy -- doesn't seem like a Jay type of Qb either.  Mahomes -- spread system QB with a lot of talent (elite arm strength with mobility) but seems raw.

 

If I had to guess one maybe Peterson in the 2nd round -- the guy ironically who was compared some to Kirk in the Senior Bowl.  I haven't really watched him much aside from noticing him Senior Bowl week.

 

Mahones isn't just raw. He's rawer than sushi! World class arm. Which explains why he was so good at baseball I guess. But there it ends. His mechanics are ...... something. Bad would be doing them an injustice. Always getting flushed the pocket. I honestly can't work out what he's doing. You draft him all you're drafting is a hope on future potential. He's not seeing the field next year. Probably would'nt the year after. But some chump will probably take a chance on that arm and draft him the early to mid second which is just crazy to me. 

 

Same here on Turbisky. He's one to watch the nearer we get the draft but you'd still be taking a complete flyer and wouldn't get anything from him in 2017. 

 

The Prescott comparisons going around for Watson are bizarre to be kind. He can play but is ball placement is a major concern. 

 

The Ole Miss guy Kelly is probably the only senior even worth looking at. Has ridiculous potential. Also has a ridiculous ego and a truck load off serious off field issues that would even have Dallas passing. Fighting a cop and threatening to shoot up a club with an AK47 are two of his better ones. 

 

Deshon is probably the top guy the class but this QB class is so bad it's beyond imperative we tie Kirk down. 

 

Hail. 

[KokoMike]

3 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

Cousins texted that to me

 

 

 

When queried about whether he would do a team friendly deal, he called doing a team friendly deal selfish, and said he wanted the money, with a caveat that the contract could be negotiated downward later.  

 

“There’s other quarterbacks that come after you and it would be almost a selfish move to hurt future quarterbacks who get in a position to have a contract,” Cousins told 106.7 The Fan in D.C. on Monday, January 2. “And if you don’t take a deal that’s fair to you, then you’re also taking a deal that’s not fair to them and you’re setting them back as well."

“Frankly, once you sign the contract, there’s no law saying you can’t renegotiate,” Cousins said. “If you signed a deal and you end up coming away from two seasons saying, ‘Hey, not only did we not win, but I think the reason is that I’m taking too much,’ then you can always talk about changing that, but I don’t a need to do that on the front end.”

[Cliffmark1]

20 hours ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

 

Your avatar looks like my ex. Memories. Ha!  

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Not for me either.  Trubisky has skills -- mobility, accuracy, arm strength.   But 13 college starts?  And to take him it would likely to have to be via landing SF's #2 pick.  If they trade Kirk and basically swap him for Trubisky or Trubisky and change -- to me that's a cringe worthy gamble.  He seems the opposite of the profile of Scot's typical first rounder:  13 starts, a junior, and played mostly against inferior competition.  You got Kizer -- big dude, strong arm but accuracy? (sub-60% completion rate).  I don't seem him as an easy fit for Jay's WCO.  And Watson is flashy but inconsistent -- throws a lot of INTs, seems raw, when I watch him to my eyes he's mostly a first read guy -- doesn't seem like a Jay type of Qb either.  Mahomes -- spread system QB with a lot of talent (elite arm strength with mobility) but seems raw.

 

If I had to guess one maybe Peterson in the 2nd round -- the guy ironically who was compared some to Kirk in the Senior Bowl.  I haven't really watched him much aside from noticing him Senior Bowl week.

The one QB I like in this draft for development is Peterman.  I'm hoping we can land him somewhere in the 4th round or so but he could shoot up boards to the late 2nd/early 3rd rounds.

[Birdlives]

On the topic of LTD versus 1 year contract, let's not forget that a LTD also brings stability to Kirks personal life. He knows where he's going to be, he can put down roots. He's 28 going on 29, I'm sure he'd like to start a family and know he won't have to uproot and move across country after 1-2 years, possibly even becoming a journeyman if things don't work out. There's more to the LTD than just the money, there's security, stability on and off the field, protection from injury, regression. Oh, and a whole lot more money than 24mil. At least 60mil. I think it'll actually be 80mil or more, based on calculating % of cap and growing FT numbers.

[jphilly]

nfl.com  reporting Kirk wont sign LTD until he is tagged . If thats true  , the LTD cant be under tag price per a year .  He would be top paid or in 2 nd highest paid depending the numbers .....   

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/game-day-pulse/0ap3000000787026/Rapoport-Cousins-won-t-sign-until-Skins-use-franchise-tag

[Est.1974]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think they get it done with Kirk on a long term contract but if not the beat reporters are pretty consistent-just about hardcore on the point that Colt is the man and they also draft someone. Saying some in that building really really like Colt.

 

Haven't seen that SIP. Recall reading a rumor/suggestion elsewhere sometime ago that maybe McVay would fancy Colt as a vet backup giving Goff a bit more breathing space. That being said, think Mannion is well thought of over there too.

 

For the record, that is totally baseless and without fact. Thought it was ideal in this thread 

[purbeast]

22 minutes ago, jphilly said:

nfl.com  reporting Kirk wont sign LTD until he is tagged . If thats true  , the LTD cant be under tag price per a year .  He would be top paid or in 2 nd highest paid depending the numbers .....   

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/game-day-pulse/0ap3000000787026/Rapoport-Cousins-won-t-sign-until-Skins-use-franchise-tag

This has been "reported" a ton of times already and is nothing but 100% speculation.

[mistertim]

I wonder if behind the scenes the Skins are talking to a few teams about a trade once Kirk is tagged. Isn't it true that as long as the team matches the FT price we can trade him to whoever we want?

[Taylor703]

5 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Colt won't be our starter. If it's not Kirk it will be another NFL vet we have acquired.

If it's not Colt I think it will be Cutler with Watson waiting in the wings. It's not what I want to happen at all but I do believe if we deal Kirk we'll pick Deshaun Watson with our second round pick. 

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Not for me either.  Trubisky has skills -- mobility, accuracy, arm strength.   But 13 college starts?  And to take him it would likely to have to be via landing SF's #2 pick.  If they trade Kirk and basically swap him for Trubisky or Trubisky and change -- to me that's a cringe worthy gamble.  He seems the opposite of the profile of Scot's typical first rounder:  13 starts, a junior, and played mostly against inferior competition.  You got Kizer -- big dude, strong arm but accuracy? (sub-60% completion rate).  I don't seem him as an easy fit for Jay's WCO.  And Watson is flashy but inconsistent -- throws a lot of INTs, seems raw, when I watch him to my eyes he's mostly a first read guy -- doesn't seem like a Jay type of Qb either.  Mahomes -- spread system QB with a lot of talent (elite arm strength with mobility) but seems raw.

 

If I had to guess one maybe Peterson in the 2nd round -- the guy ironically who was compared some to Kirk in the Senior Bowl.  I haven't really watched him much aside from noticing him Senior Bowl week.

 

I watched a lot of Trubisky because I'm a Hokie fan and mainly watch ACC football. Mitch is the real deal. Far and away the best QB in this draft. I honestly will be shocked if he's not the first overall pick by the time the draft rolls around. Cleveland will regret not picking him. 

 

If we somehow ended up with Trubisky I'd also like us to take a look at his receiver Switzer later in the draft. If Crowder slides over to take DJax spot, Switzer could move right into the slot position. 

[Birdlives]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

I wonder if behind the scenes the Skins are talking to a few teams about a trade once Kirk is tagged. Isn't it true that as long as the team matches the FT price we can trade him to whoever we want?

 

If he signs the tag, then yes. If he doesn't, then no.

 

Very unlikely scenario though. If he signs the tag, he's on a 1 year deal. No one is going to trade for him unless they get some commitment from his side that he would sign a LTD.

[SkinsGuy]

20 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

^^ I'm not sure how to break that quote up lol...everytime I tried it got more and more screwed up.

 

Use the highlight method.

 

Highlight what you want to quote as if you are cutting it out. Once you highlight it, a "Quote This" button should pop-up. Click that button and it will just quote what you highlighted.

 

That way, you can quote a post in a thread paragraph by paragraph or even sentence by sentence.