The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

4 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I understand that they are different situations.  However, players are paid for what the franchise thinks they are worth, not for what year they sign their deal in.  You won't see Carr taking less money just because he's not in the last year of his deal yet. 

 

You hear reporters like Keim say that they might pay Cousins more than Luck because that is what QB's are worth now with the cap skyrocketing, not because he's on the verge of his second tag.  If Keim is right, then Carr should get more than Luck.  If McKenzie is telling Scot that they won't pay Carr Luck money, then Keim is obviously wrong about the value of a QB today and Luck was just a special case.  If I'm the Redskins, I don't pay Kirk more than Carr is going to get.  It makes no sense for them when you compare the past play, current play, and potential of the two QBs.

 

I never said Carr would take less money (speaking terms of Team Discount).  I said the Raiders will pay him probably 22-24 million/yr and try to get that extension signed before the start of his final year in his rookie contract.  To avoid all the potential road blocks and crap with applying the FT.   Not paying him Andrew Luck money doesn't mean they don't pay him close to it and they could still pay that which is why I speculate 22-24 million.  

 

The beauty of trying to get an extension now (say they pay him 24/25 million/yr on the extension) is that in 4-5 years when it's time to think extension again, he most likely won't be in the top paid for his position after year 2 or 3 (of his extension), due to the ever increasing market.  We were not in the same situation, they had almost 3 full seasons of watching Carr be a franchise QB and grow each season.  We got the first glimpse of what Kirk can do in his fourth year (last year of his rookie deal) and had to tag him to see if it was a fluke or not.  

 

They know what they have in Carr, so they will pay him and lock him up on a LTD and will try to do that before they have to apply a franchise tag.  It's what most teams try their best to do, especially when they have a franchise QB.  Given our current situation, it was not possible to do that and now the player is happy playing under FTs to maximize his earnings.  There hasn't been any rumors that the Raiders will not pay Carr, the GM himself has said that he wants to extend Carr and Mack and that he doesn't want to wait until the last minute.  Both will get paid.

[Hail2theSkins24]

22 hours ago, Taylor 36 said:

How is this obvious?  There has not been one factual piece of evidence released that can support this claim that I know about, just pure speculation. Please let me know what I've missed that could possibly make this "obvious."

 

  Reports he is clearly content playing this year on the tag...which means very little chance he returns to D.C. Next year. Plugged in NFL guys (DJ) saying there's over 50% chance he's in SF THIS upcoming season, Kirk going to see Shanny in ATL in NFC conference game. You can pretend this situation is okay until an action is made, but to me this is a stinky situation that will not end in a great result for the Skins

[Taylor 36]

6 minutes ago, Blue Collar Skins said:

If he doesn't want to be here I don't understand keeping him. Get what we can for him so we don't walk away with nothing. I like him as a Quarterback but the team needs to come first.

He never said he doesn't want to be here.  In fact, he's said the opposite several times.  Quotes of him saying he is excited about the continuity and helping the team get back to the winning days of the hogs have been posted several times, so I'm not sure why this notion of him not wanting to be here keeps getting thrown around.

[crabbypatty]

We're not even in March yet and I'm already sick of this ****ing contract situation. At what point is enough, enough?

Let's say the skins offer 23 million a year, well that's not good enough because I want 23.5!

For ****'s sake, we're talking over 100 million dollars here with probably 60 mil+ guaranteed, and that's not "enough"?

 

Right now Kirk has everyone on his side, good feelings and all that, but the longer this drags on the more he's gonna look like a money hungry shark who only cares about that instead of winning games. Fan opinion of him will turn as this drags on and on.. (it probably can't get much worse for the opinion of the team and FO) the whole situation is just a loser all the way around. Yes the FO bungled last year (in some minds) but now we're left with this giant stinkin' turd of a situation with the outcome looking worse and worse as the days go by.

 

[goskins10]

 

6 minutes ago, Rskins06 said:

Whether you like Kirk or don't like Kirk (I like Kirk), this is becoming a huge **** sandwhich and can go bad either way!  This story of him being traded to SF seems to be getting more steam every day, whether true or not, we will soon find out.

 

Edit

 

Not sure why so many people are getting all worked up over nothing happening yet. Not directed just at you @Rskins06 - But you all realize that the off-season has barely started right? Here is the list of NFL transactions. Absolutely no major contracts have been signed. Absolutely zero. A few long snappers, and OG or two.

http://www.nfl.com/transactions

 

But based on the comments here, the Redskins are a **** show but everyone else who has players to sign and contracts to work out are great organizations? C'mon, let's apply just a little common sense here.

 

Again, I said this during the season that it is very likely that this doesn't get resolved until July 15th. Look at the Von Miller negotiations. It does not mean that either side have done anything wrong. It's not a sign of the Redskins being dysfunctional - in fact it's the total opposite. And it does not mean Kirk does not want to be here or is being jerk. This is when you take care of the business side of things.

 

I do believe it becomes more possible that Kirk is one and done if they tag him and he signs it. But even then, they have until July 15th to come to agreement. Too many fans take this whole thing too personal. I mean of course I would love for this to be done now. But that does not mean because it doesn't happen there is something wrong. Let's see what happens between now and July 15th to make any decisions on what the team and Kirk are doing.

 

As for the media reports about trades - that is mostly just throwing stuff on the wall. Their guesses based on what generates traffic. I am not saying that it's not possible or that they do not really believe it. But saying everything is going the way it should so just relax does not generate as much traffic as guessing the sky is falling. Think about it.

 

I hope some of you folks have a good blood pressure medicine! July is a long way off to already be this pissed and/or jaded.

[Commander Adama]

15 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

He never said he doesn't want to be here.  In fact, he's said the opposite several times.  Quotes of him saying he is excited about the continuity and helping the team get back to the winning days of the hogs have been posted several times, so I'm not sure why this notion of him not wanting to be here keeps getting thrown around.

I thought he has said he wants to be where he is wanted, hasn't he?

[Taylor 36]

1 minute ago, Hail2theSkins24 said:

 

  Reports he is clearly content playing this year on the tag...which means very little chance he returns to D.C. Next year. Plugged in NFL guys (DJ) saying there's over 50% chance he's in SF THIS upcoming season, Kirk going to see Shanny in ATL in NFC conference game. You can pretend this situation is okay until an action is made, but to me this is a stinky situation that will not end in a great result for the Skins

So, you're basing this on complete speculation, which the 50% crap is and was even laughed at just about a half ago by the guys on Sirius XM, and somehow that makes it obvious? Look, i'm not trying to give you a hard time, I just think it's over the top and premature at best to say anything is obvious in this situation. Cousins going to the NFCC game could very well be exactly what he said it was: he wanted to watch two of the best play and take notes so he could be in that game next year.  If it had been Seattle and GB and he was there, would anyone think anything more than what he said?  Probably not.  But, the media is paying the rent right now with speculation articles, most admittedly without any sources or sources from people who were "previously" with the team.  Again, there is nothing obvious about any of this at this point. 

 

As far as Kirk being ok with playing on the tag, why shouldn't he be?  He's already done it and handled the proving himself two years in a row, and if they tag him again, it doesn't mean he won't be here next year, it just means he will be looking at a bigger payday when he does get a LTD because the cap with be up and his tag with have increased his starting price. If the team wants to tag him and pay him 23.9 million for one year, that's not really a losing situation for Cousins. Would he prefer a LTD?  He has said that he would multiple times, but he's not scared of the tag.  Not sure why that would send up any red flags.

[HTTRDynasty]

21 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

I never said Carr would take less money (speaking terms of Team Discount).  I said the Raiders will pay him probably 22-24 million/yr and try to get that extension signed before the start of his final year in his rookie contract.  To avoid all the potential road blocks and crap with applying the FT.   Not paying him Andrew Luck money doesn't mean they don't pay him close to it and they could still pay that which is why I speculate 22-24 million.  

 

The beauty of trying to get an extension now (say they pay him 24/25 million/yr on the extension) is that in 4-5 years when it's time to think extension again, he most likely won't be in the top paid for his position after year 2 or 3 (of his extension), due to the ever increasing market.  We were not in the same situation, they had almost 3 full seasons of watching Carr be a franchise QB and grow each season.  We got the first glimpse of what Kirk can do in his fourth year (last year of his rookie deal) and had to tag him to see if it was a fluke or not.  

 

They know what they have in Carr, so they will pay him and lock him up on a LTD and will try to do that before they have to apply a franchise tag.  It's what most teams try their best to do, especially when they have a franchise QB.  Given our current situation, it was not possible to do that and now the player is happy playing under FTs to maximize his earnings.  There hasn't been any rumors that the Raiders will not pay Carr, the GM himself has said that he wants to extend Carr and Mack and that he doesn't want to wait until the last minute.  Both will get paid.

 

 

I'm not really understanding what your disagreement is here.  Yes, they know what they have in Carr.  Yes, they will try their best to get an extension now.  That is basically what I said from the outset.  That still doesn't mean it makes sense for us to pay Kirk more than Carr, who has proven to be the better QB, with more potential, and three years younger.  The fact that they had almost 3 full seasons of watching Carr be a franchise QB and grow each season means they should be paying more for Carr than we pay for Kirk, not less.

 

I think McCloughan will be happy to wait to see what happens with the Carr (and Stafford) situation if he has a strong belief he will be receiving less than what Kirk and his agent are asking for, which I'm postulating could be the case.

[fjblair]

I don't pay attention to the drama and discussion, my eyes and gut tell me that KC is going to be a big time QB in the NFL. The Redskins will franchise him and sign him.

[Taylor 36]

11 minutes ago, Blue Collar Skins said:

I thought he has said he wants to be where he is wanted, hasn't he?

I'm sorry, but I can't look for all the quotes right now.  Maybe later when I have more time.  There are several quotes posted in this thread already though, if you want to look.  I know @Skinsinparadise has several posts with quotes from Cousins wanting to stay.

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, crabbypatty said:

We're not even in March yet and I'm already sick of this ****ing contract situation. At what point is enough, enough?

Let's say the skins offer 23 million a year, well that's not good enough because I want 23.5!

For ****'s sake, we're talking over 100 million dollars here with probably 60 mil+ guaranteed, and that's not "enough"?

 

 

There are a gazillion reporters out there speculating about what's going on -- where in that mix have you heard the Redskins offer 23 million a year and 100 million dollars or the general idea that the Redskins and Kirk are going back and forth and Kirk is being petty by trying to push the Redskins' generous offer to an even higher number?  The idea that the Redskins offered something big and generous and Kirk is just shooting it down -- hasn't been among the narratives we've heard.  So IMO that theory is very doubtful. 

 

The consistent scuttlebutt has been the Redskins do not want to pay him a figure that matches the tag (23.9 million) -- and its not couched where its said that they are willing to go very very close to that sum but Kirk is haggling anyway.  Having said that, there is still plenty of time for the Redskins to offer a nice size contract and they get this done by March 1st.    I don't get the sense that serious negotiations are actually going on right now.  I'd expect something might happen though before March 1st and I do think they ultimately get it done before July 15th.  For those who are into trading Kirk, I suspect that would happen soon after the tag if that goes down. 

 

This part isn't directed at you.   I'll stick to the idea that the media is wrong and the Redskins off season plan that they came up when they had their FA meetings a few weeks ago or so was: (hyperbole for effect from me) lets trade Kirk to SF.  Pappa Shanny said Kirk is a franchise QB who can win a Superbowl -- we will double dare him on that and put Kirk in Shanny Jr.'s lap.  Let Garcon play for Dallas or Philly per rumors.  D. Jax have fun in Philly.  And adios to you Chris Baker.    And watch fans will rally around Colt McCoy and our new FA signing of B. Logan.  Season ticket holders won't even flinch.   Lets get nuts!

 

 

[dckey]

I've been reading a lot of comments about this contract and the fact that we have not signed him yet.  I really believe that this is the correct business decision and not about Kirk.  First of all I believe we will sign Kirk to a long term deal by July 15th.  I think the reason we are waiting is because we want to let the market set before we negotiate.  There is a chance that Matt Ryan and Matthew Stafford get extensions in the next month or two.   With that the redskins should see what they sign for before signing Kirk.  If both sign for 24mil 60-70 guaranteed then we should be able to get Kirk cheaper because of the compared resumes. If we let Kirk set the market then they will be looking for more than him, I think the waiting is nothing but a good business decision. 

[Mr. Sinister]

Watch this thing last all the way into summer, and multiple heads explode as a result

[crabbypatty]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

There are a gazillion reporters out there speculating about what's going on -- where in that mix have you heard the Redskins offer 23 million a year and 100 million dollars guaranteed or the general idea that the Redskins and Kirk are going back and forth and Kirk is being petty by trying to push the Redskins' generous offer to an even higher number?  The idea that the Redskins offered something big and generous and Kirk is just shooting it down -- hasn't been among the narratives we've heard.  So IMO that theory is very doubtful. 

 

 

 

 

That's why I said LET'S SAY the skins offered that.

Realistically at a MINIMUM if they want to keep him it's gonna have to be at least 100 mil + and 60+ guaranteed, there is no other way around it. Whether they've offered that, who knows. But I do know that the longer this drags out, the worse opinion of KC will get. It's already at rock bottom for the team and front office, so they can't go any lower... unless it comes out that they offered some ridiculous offer like 14 mil a year and won't budge from that.

[Cliffmark1]

9 minutes ago, crabbypatty said:

 

That's why I said LET'S SAY the skins offered that.

Realistically at a MINIMUM if they want to keep him it's gonna have to be at least 100 mil + and 60+ guaranteed, there is no other way around it. Whether they've offered that, who knows. But I do know that the longer this drags out, the worse opinion of KC will get. It's already at rock bottom for the team and front office, so they can't go any lower... unless it comes out that they offered some ridiculous offer like 14 mil a year and won't budge from that.

Yeah but the reports are we offered him 16 per year last year when we could have gotten him for $20. 

 

If they wanted him cheap they should have signed him earlier, he could have been very cheap. 

[DM72]

1 minute ago, Cliffmark1 said:

Yeah but the reports are we offered him 16 per year. 

 

I have not seen that reported anywhere.

[Cliffmark1]

Just now, DM72 said:

 

I have not seen that reported anywhere.

It was WIDELY reported last year we offered him 16 per year.

 

[KokoMike]

The Mercury News poll of who should be the 49ers QB next year has Cousins in the lead.

[DM72]

1 minute ago, Cliffmark1 said:

It was WIDELY reported last year we offered him 16 per year.

 

 

I'm talking about THIS year. 

[Taylor 36]

12 minutes ago, DM72 said:

 

I'm talking about THIS year. 

Nothing about negotiations for this year has come out to my knowledge.  Both sides seem to be pretty tight-lipped about it.  Even if negotiations haven't taken place, they have been quiet about that too.  Very unfamiliar territory for the Redskins and their fan base.  Must be why the media is going nuts with speculative stories.

[Jumbo]

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/kirk-cousins-is-going-to-make-the-redskins-pay-no-matter-where-he-ends-up/2017/02/23/ceb2bf22-f9ce-11e6-9845-576c69081518_story.html?utm_term=.83531e37d040

 

Kirk Cousins is going to make the Redskins pay, no matter where he ends up

 

 

Quote

 

Kirk Cousins was a stability test for the Washington Redskins, and they failed it. Now the Cousins problem can’t be fixed with 20 million dollars a year, or a dozen yellow roses, and it’s no use appealing to his loyalty, because the main signature of this franchise is always treachery and upheaval.

 

Cousins probably is going to cost $100 million. It’s that or trade him. If Washington doesn’t give him the big contract, someone else eventually will, he will join the free agent cotillion next season, and Washington risks being embarrassed that he will win with another team. It’s great to see an NFL player with this kind of leverage, and even better to see a smart guy really use it, refuse sentimentality and drive the hardest deal possible from a team that is undeserving of loyalty or leniency in negotiations. Cousins should get every penny he can — and Dan Snyder and Bruce Allen and Scot McCloughan should get what they deserve.

 

The front office insulted him, refused to make him a worthy contract offer last year, while hurling its checkbook at Josh Norman. Now Washington is the insecure party and Cousins is set for life, no matter what team he plays for, and every young player in the league should be banging on the door of his agent, Mike McCartney of Priority Sports, asking how he did it. Here’s the secret: Treat yourself as valuable even when your owner doesn’t. Don’t ever let a front office tell you who you are. You tell them.

 

<much more at link>

[Wildbunny]

27 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The consistent scuttlebutt has been the Redskins do not want to pay him a figure that matches the tag (23.9 million) -- and its not couched where its said that they are willing to go very very close to that sum but Kirk is haggling anyway.  Having said that, there is still plenty of time for the Redskins to offer a nice size contract and they get this done by March 1st.    I don't get the sense that serious negotiations are actually going on right now.  I'd expect something might happen though before March 1st and I do think they ultimately get it done before July 15th.  For those who are into trading Kirk, I suspect that would happen soon after the tag if that goes down. 

Cousins and is agent seems to have an interesting angle regarding the Franchise Tag, though. Players throughout the league generally don't like getting tagged because that's just a one year deal. If it's not exclusive they can try to shop themselves out and see what they can get.

 

But for Cousins, if he gets tagged, he's unlikely to try to ship his worth through the league. And can kick the breaks on contract negotiations. Most people seems to assume that next year, if he's tagged, he'll get out because he won't get tagged a third time. And both he and his agent knows that. He'll shop himself elsewhere for free at a high price if he keeps on playing his way.

 

He has already made around 20M last year. If tagged, he'll make another 24M or so. That's 44M in two years. And he can still get a lucrative LTD next year from this same organisation for 25+M/ year with a bunch of guaranteed money and a signing bonus of something like 50M. In three years he'll have made nearly 100M but playing with the system. Most people seems to believe he'll leave next year if he doesn't get a LTD this year, but his plan may also be to get another tag this year, and sign a LTD here next year. If it is, that's smart business doing.

 

The perception of the tag might be quite alterated if that happens to be played this way from Cousins and his side.

[carex]

if he didn't want to be here all he'd have to say is he wouldn't ply under the franchise tag.

 

now as for his pay, I do hope he's willing to start below the tag, because that is supposed to be the high point.  I hope it starts a bit below and the salary works up from there

[zoony]

1 hour ago, Taylor703 said:

 

Brad wasn't the highest paid player in the league and Tampa bay had one of the best defenses ever. Those two things cannot be left out of the discussion when bringing up Brad Johnsons departure in comparison to Kirk Cousins. It would be akin to blaming Tampa Bay for letting Trent Dilfer go because he won a super bowl with the Ravens. 

 

That Tampa Team struggled for years with first round playoff exits. 

 

as for money the league values QBs 100 times more than they did them. So that's a pointless argument

[Warhead36]

Cousins, like almost any player, wants to play for whoever is willing to pay him. If that's us, then great. If it's someone else then it's someone else. This notion that he should take less money is absurd. Professional athletes only have a limited window to earn and when that window shuts it shuts for good. Get as much as you can while you can. I mean would you rather players get the money or the owners?