The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[Unbias]

14 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

I don't see the cap as an issue. A long term deal keeps Kirk here for 3 years minimum. The deals being touted will take up 11% or 12% of our space over that 3 year period. That's easy done.

 

Thats not the problem, if there is one......

 

The cap isn't an issue where Washington will have the room/funds, but what that dollar amount will be becomes the question. 

 

I'll use this year's cap numbers for the math, but things will change year-over-year. Let's say Cleveland is willing to use 12% of their total cap to lock him up. Because they have more cap room that's ~$26M/season (~$218M * 12%). For Washington now that's ~14% of their cap room (assuming the ~$183M for this season). 

 

The difference between 12% and 14% isn't really that much of the cap, but it will impact the decision. Does Washington want to make Kirk the highest paid QB? Could that money be better spent on the defensive side of the ball? Ultimately Washington has a ceiling that aren't willing to cross. Is that still a contract they want to give him? 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

43 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Everyone seems so alarmist. Listened to sports radio today and it's even worse there. I'm not ready to be alarmist.

 

Hopefully, cooler, reasoned voices are negotiating away from all our hand wringing, conjecture, and silliness.

Kirk not having a LTD provides much more for sports radio to talk about than him getting one.  I do understand why some are alarmed given we are on the brink of a very important free agency period where we have legit money to spend for once and our QB isn't locked up.  The level in which impacts our ability to sign free agents remains to be seen, but it certainly will have some impact.

 

Combine all that with the fact that there hasn't been a word about any of our own guys being close to deals (Garcon, Djax, Baker mainly) plus all the speculation about Bruce, Scott and the front office in general and you have the majority sounding the alarms.

 

Everything could end up great, but with the legit information we have at our disposal right now, I can understand the alarm.

[Skinsinparadise]

59 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

Is this the Casserly stuff  you guys are talking abouit

 

 

Nope.  I am talking about this:

http://stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=65&c=21773&f=5854543

[Est.1974]

@Unbias I have no doubts others are willing to pay more. It's a marginal difference over a cumulative 3 year cap period. But yes, and the teams with the cap space are also high in the draft and therefore have valuable picks up for grabs..

[Unbias]

Just now, Taylor703 said:

They didn't muck up anything. He was good for half a season. It would've been disastrous for this franchise had they paid him the $20M+ a year he wanted last year and he ended up playing poorly. 

I don't see it that way. Last offseason all NFL teams knew with the sale of Thursday night games, participating in the revenues of gambling sites and NFLN becoming a positive revenue items the salary cap was going to increase. 

 

IMO they were stuck with a straight forward decision: commit to Kirk or not. Sure $20M/yr seemed like a lot of money at the time, but knowing where the cap was going that's actually a deal compared to what they will end up paying. I'd add because they didn't want to commit to him in 1-2 years they might actually be working on their plan B at the QB position, which would most likely negatively impact the roster.

 

Anyway, if he plays under the franchise tag again it will make me think they just don't want to commit to him, which if that's the case it's taking them a long time to move on. 

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

Is this the Casserly stuff  you guys are talking abouit?

 

 

 

 

No. I heard him on Cooley's show.

[purbeast]

1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Kirks leaving town I reckon and the FO is dragging it out long enough to make sure it has no blood on its hands.

 

To be honest, if he told me he was happy with the tag I'd trade his ass out of town too.

 

Would still like him back all told, but doesn't look like it's heading that way to me.

 

Damage limitation, screw another team in a trade war and move on.......

So if your company told you that you can work for 1 year for a 40x your salary of 2 years ago, or you can maybe get another deal done if you both come to an agreement, you wouldn't be happy with that 1 year of 40x your salary from 2 years ago?

 

I think pretty much 100% of people would be happy with that raise.

[bobandweave]

Wrong on so many levels it's silly. Cousins chokes and has been choking for years. He blows against the better teams and when the games on prime time and when the games matter the most. Sure he won a couple games that we needed in 12 but what about this year. We needed the game against the Giants and he sucked. Needed it against Carolina and he sucked. Sure against bad teams like the Bears he has been okay but so what? Ceiling of can smash bad teams only gets you to 8-8 in this division year after year if that. He's done nothing but make this opinion for 90% of NFL fans out side if Redskins country because it's what he's done the past few years although I will give it to him in 2012 he came through with two wins which was clutch but as for him being a clutch player hell nah that's just silly

 

Id take Flacco over Cousins if it was a game to get in the playoffs every day of the week. Dude just doesn't have that in him and Flacco isn't good he just knows how to win must win games

 

if you have the time to write that long novel can you please write about more truthful and accurate things? Please 

 

 

 

 

 

[Est.1974]

22 minutes ago, purbeast said:

So if your company told you that you can work for 1 year for a 40x your salary of 2 years ago, or you can maybe get another deal done if you both come to an agreement, you wouldn't be happy with that 1 year of 40x your salary from 2 years ago?

 

I think pretty much 100% of people would be happy with that raise.

 I don't see how that's relevant in this situation.

[jtpop]

I really don't think Kirk wants to be a Redskin.... if that is the case good riddance... at least ACT like you want to be here!

[Burgold]

13 minutes ago, jtpop said:

I really don't think Kirk wants to be a Redskin.... if that is the case good riddance... at least ACT like you want to be here!

Thing is, you're really reacting to media speculation and not Kirk. Kirk hasn't said much, has he? You may be right, but these sports analysts (as opposed to journalists) are just payed to talk and stir. Who knows how much actual research and digging they really do.

[CTskin]

33 minutes ago, purbeast said:

So if your company told you that you can work for 1 year for a 40x your salary of 2 years ago, or you can maybe get another deal done if you both come to an agreement, you wouldn't be happy with that 1 year of 40x your salary from 2 years ago?

 

I think pretty much 100% of people would be happy with that raise.

You really need to stop comparing Kirk's situation to that of an average fan. You do it every day and it's not only tired, but the situations are unparalleled. Please comprehend that. What Kirk's working with has zero relation to "real life." 

[jphilly]

Maybe they are waiting to see what other teams are doing . Rumor has it Nick Foles getting cut from KC . He could be a much cheaper bridge option that has shown with right cast can play on a high level .        

 

Waiting is hell and the mind can do strange things 

[bobandweave]

22 minutes ago, jtpop said:

I really don't think Kirk wants to be a Redskin.... if that is the case good riddance... at least ACT like you want to be here!

 

Exactly bro Kirk isn't stupid he's playing the franchise tag game and saying to sign him long term in Washington he demands to be grossly over paid. No forget that. We are stuck in a massive problem

 

Kirks not good enough to win without his best players, but you can't keep the best players if your grossly overspending to keep Kirk. What we need is a hometown discount from Kirk so we can keep our receivers then we can build the defense

 

Since Kirk won't play ball there is no point in not trading him and dumping him.

 

He isn't great he's okay, great mean you don't need playmakers to make plays for you great takes average guys and make them produce. Like Brady. That is not Kirk: if you take away his playmakers what will you have with keeping Kirk? Not much. It's not Kirks fault he isn't Brady but he's stupid for not seeing what he needs to be successful in this league and not making this work to keep everyone. He could have been special here but he wants out of here and only will stay with us if he's chasing the money. We don't need someone like that ruining our team

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[onedrop]

1 minute ago, bobandweave said:

 

Exactly bro Kirk isn't stupid he's playing the franchise tag game and saying to sign him long term in Washington he demands to be grossly over paid. No forget that. We are stuck in a massive problem

 

Kirks not good enough to win without his best players, but you can't keep the best players if your grossly overspending to keep Kirk. What we need is a hometown discount from Kirk so we can keep our receivers then we can build the defense

 

Since Kirk won't play ball there is no point in not trading him and dumping him.

 

He isn't great he's okay, great mean you don't need playmakers to make plays for you great takes average guys and make them produce. Like Brady. That is not Kirk: if you take away his playmakers what will you have with keeping Kirk? Not much. It's not Kirks fault he isn't Brady but he's a complete moron for not seeing what he needs to be successful in this league and not making this work to keep everyone. He could have been special here

at this point you are just hating on Cousins. your arguments are simply a biased diatribe against the man that you refuse to apply to everyone else equally. you have zero credibility on the issue. how do YOU know what KIrk or his agent are thinking? you dont, 

[CapsSkins]

My prediction: Kirk signs tag, refuses to sign LTD for less than $27-28M per, plays out the year on the tag, hits FA and walks.

 

The guaranteed money from this year's tag plus last year's tag means he's set for life financially, he's always been willing to bet on himself, and he seems to have some resentment towards the FO for not fully believing in him.

 

I think Skins will have to really overpay to keep him long-term. But who knows! Maybe his wife / agent convince him to take a reasonable LTD for double the guaranteed money. I just feel like he wants to go prove a point and stick it to the Skins.

[NoCalMike]

I said way back in the process that there was a chance Cousins simply doesn't want to be in DC.  It happens, sometimes players want a change of scenery.  In his situation, he knows he is getting paid a lot of money regardless.  Now, is there enough evidence to be sure about him not wanting to be on this team?  No.  However what I do feel pretty confident saying is that the goal of his agent and him are to get the biggest possible pay day, regardless of the team that is offering it. 

[markmills67]

Give Cousins the non exclusive franchise tag, enough teams out there desperate for a franchise QB, take the 2 1st round draft picks ( or nearest offer), plug McCoy in next year and draft QB in 2018  when I believe better QB available.  

[purbeast]

46 minutes ago, CTskin said:

You really need to stop comparing Kirk's situation to that of an average fan. You do it every day and it's not only tired, but the situations are unparalleled. Please comprehend that. What Kirk's working with has zero relation to "real life." 

I don't fathom how someone can be mad at someone for being okay with accepting a $24 million dollar deal for 1 year worth of work, regardless of the industry.

[JSSkinz]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I watch NFL Network all the time, no way I'd sum up the aggregate take of Kirk that he's a third tier QB.  Like anything people have different takes -- but plenty of coaches, Ex-Qbs, players buy into Kirk.

 

 

1

 

I'm just telling you what I heard Deion Sanders say a couple weeks ago, its not my opinion its what he said and he's in tune with many GM's, owners, coaches, and players across the league.

 

I think its important to understand what his tiers are and I forgot to post that.

 

He believes the top tier consists of Brady and Rodgers, then tier 2 is Brees, Rothlisberger, Ryan, etc, and then you have Kirks tier.

 

With that being said, Deion Sanders said KC deserves to be paid, that's how he ended the segment.

[Est.1974]

Kirk's used last years 'snub' to motivate himself through this year. Opinion differs on how good the guy is at QB, but no doubt he's highly professional and seriously motivated to succeed. 

 

His 'how do you like me now' exchange with Scot in December will carry more meaning sometime soon.

[hailer21]

@Wildbunny@PartyPosse Like I said, who you want to call a clutch QB is all up to what your definition of a clutch performance is.

 

That's why you'll have plenty of posters, talking heads, media, etc. (anyone with an opinion) on either side of the fence when it comes to declaring a quarterback "clutch" or not. 

 

Whose to say Kaepernick and Sanchez aren't clutch performers? They've performed pretty well in big, playoff games haven't they? And Stafford may have been pretty clutch in the game against us this year but how clutch was he in the playoffs against Seattle? Is Matt Stafford more "clutch" than Kap and Sanchez because he's won more regular season football games, which aren't nearly as meaningful as playoff games?

 

There is no debunking going on in this thread - it's just a mess of hot takes based on cherry-picked stats. If I base my opinion on W-L record in big games, then Kirk is not clutch but he isn't a choke artist either. His 1-2 record in those "big" games suggests he's more choker than clutch though.........in my opinion.

 

Debating how "clutch" Kirk may be is the wrong place to base your arguments on how deserving he is of the LTD.

[PigskinRedskin]

Okay, there's much truth as Kirk hates it here as much as he loves it here.

 

He will NEVER come out to say he really wants to be here or that he really doesn't want to be here, especially during contract negotiations. That's just not smart business and Kirk seems to be an intelligent guy. It's like going into an interview before talking salary and just blabbering how much you love the company, would do anything for them, etc. That pretty much tells the company that they can lowball you because you're really content on being there and would more than likely, accept a smaller amount due to the desire to be there.

On the flip side, you don't go in saying "Eh, this company is kind of crappy, I'd rather work for the company down the road but let's see what you got".

 

He's playing the game, keeping quiet but when asked he does say he'd like to build something here, pretty much down the middle of what you're supposed to do when in contract talks. He really doesn't have a social media presence or outspoken as other players so we won't get much from him. We just have to sit and wait it out really.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

2 hours ago, Taylor703 said:

They didn't muck up anything. He was good for half a season. It would've been disastrous for this franchise had they paid him the $20M+ a year he wanted last year and he ended up playing poorly. 

It would not have been disastrous. He would have been gone in 3 seasons and the contract forgotten. It wouldn't have stopped us building the rest of the team either 

[elkabong82]

4 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

It would not have been disastrous. He would have been gone in 3 seasons and the contract forgotten. It wouldn't have stopped us building the rest of the team either 

 

You keep throwing this same idea of an easily escaped mega contract around in this thread, so prove it. List some QBs who signed a large deal in the past 5 years who's contract is set-up to where it can be easily escaped with no ramifications after 3 seasons, and then justify why Kirk would have signed something similar. It's VERY hard to imagine this being true, so I'd really like to see some actual proof.