The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[Skinsinparadise]

Seems like this deserves a repost based on some recent exchanges here

 

http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington-redskins/kirk-cousins-wants-stay-redskin-under-right-set-circumstances

“I’d love to be able to help build Washington and bring them back to the days of the Hogs and those championships,” he said. “So that’s certainly what we’re always striving for, and, under the right set of circumstances, I would love to be back.”

 

http://www.redskins.com/news/article-1/Kirk-Cousins-Happy-To-Keep-Continuity-With-Matt-Cavanaugh/ed759375-05d0-4f4c-9e2d-7147753fd18a

Even while quarterback Kirk Cousins remains uncertain about his future with the Redskins, he explained Friday between Pro Bowl practices in Orlando, Fla., that Cavanaugh’s promotion was a helpful and practical move, not just for himself, but for the entire organization.

“I love the fact that we’re not starting over,” Cousins said. “We’ve learned a certain way of doing things for a couple of years now and with Coach Cav as the coordinator, we’ll be able to keep that rolling, as opposed to having to start all over with a brand new system and terminology and philosophy.”

Cousins said he spoke with O’Connell over the phone last week and hit it off with him right away.

“I’ve heard good things from everybody who knows him and he’s an up and coming coach in the league and excited to work with him,” Cousins said. “He’s played alongside some Hall of Fame quarterbacks, he’s now been coaching around in some different spots and seen it done in some different ways. I think he’ll be able to add some unique perspective and be a great personality for us to work with.”

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/kirk-cousins-waiting-for-decision-makers-on-redskins-to-decide-on-his-future/

ORLANDO, Fla. -- When asked about how former offensive coordinator Sean McVay schemed up his offense, quarterback Kirk Cousins referred to the Redskins as "we."

When asked about the group of running backs currently on the Washington roster, Cousins again made himself sound like he was part of the team: "We feel like we've got three guys that now have a lot of valuable playing time ... and we'll see," he said.

He even used the pronoun again when specifically mentioning running back Chris Thompson: "We've got to bring him back."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2017/01/26/kirk-cousins-expresses-a-desire-to-return-to-washington-for-the-right-price/?utm_term=.c18f2507dc12

Cousins said. “If they want me back, I definitely want to be back. Under the right set of circumstances, it’d be great to be back there. I’m looking forward to seeing what they do.”

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2017/01/25/kirk-cousins-would-love-to-build-something-in-washington/

“I’d love to build something in Washington,” Cousins told Dave Richard of CBS Sports. “We’ll see if the decision-makers let that happen

http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/article-1/Kirk-Cousins-‘Hoping’-To-Return-To-Redskins-In-2016/fac9be4f-9ffa-4f2f-9fe5-d800eb689297

“I’m hoping for an opportunity to be the guy here for a long time and hopefully build on this season,” Cousins told Larry Michael and Sonny Jurgensen Sunday night in the ESPN980 postgame show

[ThomasRoane]

21 hours ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

Or apply the transition tag in 2018 with the right to match other teams offers.  

 

LOL and Cousins will gladly play another year for $34 mil and walk after that.  Which will mean that the Redskins rented him for $77.6 million for three years work.  Then Kirk will go and sign a $80mil guaranteed contract with the team he wants to play for.  Making the Redskins the dumbest team in the history of sports.  Especially when they could have had him for $50 - $60 mil guaranteed over 5 years after the 2015 season.  (And secured the rights to trade him if they wanted to).

 

Put yourself in Kirk's shoes.  Why in the hell would you want to help a team (with draft picks) that for two years in a row has had the attitude that you're not good enough to be paid market value?!?! Not to mention, having to listen to all the butt hurt fans who will always hate him because he's not #10. 

[ThomasRoane]

18 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Maybe not top 5 but he was in the top 10 in just about every major statistical category last year. Actually in many advanced metrics he was top 5.

 

The same people saying "let him go start over" are the same ones who will be crying the most when we start 2-6 next year and Colt McCoy is stinking up the joint.

 

Right, and let's not forget that by the time the new kid is up to the level that Kirk is at now (if that's possible because back to back 4,000 yard QB's are hard to come by) much of the offense will have to be retooled.  Trent, Moses, Reed (who will probably be retired then), Garcon? (assuming we sign him), and others will be done or will have seriously declined in performance.  Leaving us right where we have been since Snyder took over.  An occasional spike up or down but mostly mediocre. 

[ThomasRoane]

41 minutes ago, Llevron said:

****s weird to me. I feel like we should be rooting for the team. Currently I see people rooting for the player to get paid. 

 

Clamoring to resign a top 10 QB in a pass happy league IS rooting for the team!!!  If you have a competent QB that can set protections, work in the pocket, occasionally improvise, make every throw, complete third and longs, get thru his reads before the pass rush gets to him, stays healthy, etc then you have a chance to win games.  If you don't have that guy then you are going to spend a lot of Sunday's hoping the other team misses their field goal so you can win 20-17.  Yay!

[Veryoldschool]

Today I make the odds:

 

1.  LTD on or before 3/1  30%

2.  FT on 3/1 and no LTD in 2017 60%

3.  LTD after 3/1 on or before 7/15 10%

[DJD2]

Just now, Veryoldschool said:

 

Today I make the odds:

 

1.  LTD on or before 3/1  30%

 

 

I think it's closer to 0% this happens. The only way his agent recommends this is if the deal is so far over the top in terms of guaranteed money that it dwarfs whatever he can get playing the FT game.

I just don't think the Redskins are at that point in their thinking. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Sheehan-Cooley's show just started a poll right now on twitter and on their site, if anyone wants to vote here's the web site link, you'll see the poll when you scroll down on the left side of the page: http://www.espn980.com/

 

ESPN 980Verified account‏@espn980  10m10 minutes ago

More

#Redskins Poll! How do you compare Kirk Cousins & Colt McCoy? How similar are they really? @thecooleyzone & @kevins980 LIVE on @espn980!

 

03%They're the same

15%Kirk is slightly better

03%Colt is slightly better

79%Kirk is way better

 

 

[Veryoldschool]

14 minutes ago, DJD2 said:

 

I think it's closer to 0% this happens. The only way his agent recommends this is if the deal is so far over the top in terms of guaranteed money that it dwarfs whatever he can get playing the FT game.

I just don't think the Redskins are at that point in their thinking. 

 

Everyone knows the tag is coming on 3/1 if a deal isn't struck so it is already baked in the discussions.  I think the Cousins camp may conclude there isn't going to be a LTD that we want and just shut down after March 1 and I wouldn't blame them.  The Redskins have had months to wrap their heads around the notion of giving Kirk top 5 $ with a big guarantee and didn't accept it so its time to play 2017 and look for a new franchise in 2018.

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Sheehan-Cooley's show just started a poll right now on twitter and on their site, if anyone wants to vote here's the web site link, you'll see the poll when you scroll down on the left side of the page: http://www.espn980.com/

 

ESPN 980Verified account‏@espn980  10m10 minutes ago

More

#Redskins Poll! How do you compare Kirk Cousins & Colt McCoy? How similar are they really? @thecooleyzone & @kevins980 LIVE on @espn980!

 

03%They're the same

15%Kirk is slightly better

03%Colt is slightly better

79%Kirk is way better

 

 

 

I'm in the Kirk is way better camp also.  Cousins is top 5 and way better that most of the QBs in the league not just the other QBs on the Skins roster.

[SkinsManNJ]

23 hours ago, onedrop said:

I was thinking more about how the sensationalistic click bait "professional" media style has bled through to message board culture, which dilutes true interactions, but I do agree with you statement......oh and F TO...

Click bait media is destroying any semblance of real news across all platforms. Sad times at Ridgemont High ?. With that said click here to get the inside scoop on Cousins new blockbuster deal that will SHOCK!!!  Click here for the block buster trade for KC after his massive deall!!! 

Oops i disabled the links they take you to T.O.s HOF speech. 

[50yrSKINSfan]

Just now, ncr2h said:

 

In 2016, Brees (8) threw nearly twice as many 4th quarter INTs than Kirk (5).  In 2015, Brees (6) threw six times as many 4th quarter INTs as Kirk (1).

 

You can see for yourself here:

 

Cousins: http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/14880

Brees: http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/2580

Guess when you were checking stats you may have missed how many 5000 yard passing seasons Brees has had and how many KC has not had. Forget the ring and his payoff wins but KC is not even close to the player Drew Brees is. Cheers.

[TheGreek1973]

What is sad for me at this moment is once again our team has proven to be dysfunctional and here we thought everything changed in 2015 when Gruden and Scott M pushed for Cousins to start over RGIII.  I actually thought we have turned the corner and we were ready to join well run football teams, but then we get the curve ball last year being only the 2nd team to allow a starting QB to play on a tag and this year we look even more unsure and confused about this situation.

 

All in all if we allow Cousins to play a second year on a tag and not try our best to do a LTD it will be prove for me that this team will never change for the better as long as Synder is the owner.

[purbeast]

41 minutes ago, DJD2 said:

 

I think it's closer to 0% this happens. The only way his agent recommends this is if the deal is so far over the top in terms of guaranteed money that it dwarfs whatever he can get playing the FT game.

I just don't think the Redskins are at that point in their thinking. 

It just boggles my mind how Snider throws around money at players like Haynesworth but he won't just pony up and pay for Kirk.  Even if it's "overpaying" it is so worth it for stability alone.  I realize the entire FO is different now, but damn, it really hurts knowing they signed that fat piece of crap to record breaking deals but they won't sign a franchise QB to a long term deal that is home grown and is in the palm of their hands.

[DJD2]

1 minute ago, purbeast said:

It just boggles my mind how Snider throws around money at players like Haynesworth but he won't just pony up and pay for Kirk.

 

I would agree with this if it was known for sure that Snyder is the one holding things up. I suspect it is quite more nuanced than that. For all we know he is being counseled by Allen and McG to hold the line at a certain level - in essence preventing him from doing exactly what he has been accused of in the past.

[Skinsinparadise]

48 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Everyone knows the tag is coming on 3/1 if a deal isn't struck so it is already baked in the discussions.  I think the Cousins camp may conclude there isn't going to be a LTD that we want and just shut down after March 1 and I wouldn't blame them.  The Redskins have had months to wrap their heads around the notion of giving Kirk top 5 $ with a big guarantee and didn't accept it so its time to play 2017 and look for a new franchise in 2018.

 

I'm in the Kirk is way better camp also.  Cousins is top 5 and way better that most of the QBs in the league not just the other QBs on the Skins roster.

 

I'm in the Kirk is way better camp, too.  Colt's QBR ratings are abysmal, he gets sacked a lot, fumbles a lot, INTs, and he has little arm strength -- he plays with a lot of moxie and heart and has good mobility and I like him a lot as a back up but IMO they are 5-11 with him as the starter. Based on Colt's career he also won't make it through the season without getting hurt so I'd assume Sudfeld would play, too.

 

As for the Kirk contract drill.  I have more hope than most here they reach a deal before July 15th.  I actually have more faith in JLC's sources than some here -- he's been proven right on a bunch of things from my observation.    Since JLC is willing to stick his neck out that the deal gets done and it happens before the July 15th deadline, I am assuming he has a source at Redskins Park telling him that.  What I take from that is the Redskins FO is hoping for market circumstances to improve their leverage (SF gets a QB, 4 Qbs get drafted high, etc) and if so maybe there is a shot Kirk will come down some from his request but if he doesn't they will suck it up and pay it before July 15th.  The other part of this for me is Albert Breer's report about how they want the market to set Kirk's price -- and if so waiting until July 15th plays into that.

 

I do think Kirk would likely be cool with signing a long term contract at fair market price whether its now or in July.  Making the Redskins tag him -- forces the Redskins to anchor up to the magic $23.9 million figure.   So if the Redskins aren't willingly going to that figure -- why not force them there?  But I disagree with those who think that if the Redskins offer him a fair market deal before July 15th, Kirk won't take it. 

 

If it were me I'd offer him the fair market deal now and end this.   It still could happen and I think if he does it happens right before the deadline.

[purbeast]

28 minutes ago, DJD2 said:

 

I would agree with this if it was known for sure that Snyder is the one holding things up. I suspect it is quite more nuanced than that. For all we know he is being counseled by Allen and McG to hold the line at a certain level - in essence preventing him from doing exactly what he has been accused of in the past.

Yeah that is very true.  It's just so odd to me that nothing has gotten done, but I also realize that we know virtually nothing that is going on behind the scenes.

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Sheehan-Cooley's show just started a poll right now on twitter and on their site, if anyone wants to vote here's the web site link, you'll see the poll when you scroll down on the left side of the page: http://www.espn980.com/

 

ESPN 980Verified account‏@espn980  10m10 minutes ago

More

#Redskins Poll! How do you compare Kirk Cousins & Colt McCoy? How similar are they really? @thecooleyzone & @kevins980 LIVE on @espn980!

 

03%They're the same

15%Kirk is slightly better

03%Colt is slightly better

79%Kirk is way better

 

 

The simple fact of the matter is, if Colt was good enough to be a starter in this league, he would be a starter in this league on a different team right now.

[Veryoldschool]

28 minutes ago, TheGreek1973 said:

What is sad for me at this moment is once again our team has proven to be dysfunctional and here we thought everything changed in 2015 when Gruden and Scott M pushed for Cousins to start over RGIII.  I actually thought we have turned the corner and we were ready to join well run football teams, but then we get the curve ball last year being only the 2nd team to allow a starting QB to play on a tag and this year we look even more unsure and confused about this situation.

 

All in all if we allow Cousins to play a second year on a tag and not try our best to do a LTD it will be prove for me that this team will never change for the better as long as Synder is the owner.

 

Amen.  I think the Skins already look foolish since they squandered a chance to give Cousins a LTD in an unabashedly celebratory mood.  A smart franchise would have seen this as an opportunity to celebrate some success.  Great individual success for Kirk Cousins for rising from a 4th round afterthought to one of the best QBs in the league and team and organizational success for putting together 2 consecutive winning seasons under Cousins, Gruden and Mccloughan. The Redskins had a chance to nurture the team and the fan base with a timely agreement and the announce within the context of a harmonious franchise confidently moving forward.  A huge missed opportunity in my opinion even if they do the obvious thing and close the deal belatedly. 

[CTskin]

31 minutes ago, TheGreek1973 said:

What is sad for me at this moment is once again our team has proven to be dysfunctional and here we thought everything changed in 2015 when Gruden and Scott M pushed for Cousins to start over RGIII.  I actually thought we have turned the corner and we were ready to join well run football teams, but then we get the curve ball last year being only the 2nd team to allow a starting QB to play on a tag and this year we look even more unsure and confused about this situation.

 

It's amusing that this is the assumption by so many fans here. We have a tight-lipped front office who are handling business like professionals and we're calling it dysfunctional? Sorry there are no leaks about the Redskins exact gameplan on signing Cousins, but to be jumping the gun like this is embarrassing. The LTD deadline is still four months away. On July 16th, vent away, but until then, calm down. 

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

2 hours ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

LOL and Cousins will gladly play another year for $34 mil and walk after that.  Which will mean that the Redskins rented him for $77.6 million for three years work.  Then Kirk will go and sign a $80mil guaranteed contract with the team he wants to play for.  Making the Redskins the dumbest team in the history of sports.  Especially when they could have had him for $50 - $60 mil guaranteed over 5 years after the 2015 season.  (And secured the rights to trade him if they wanted to).

 

Put yourself in Kirk's shoes.  Why in the hell would you want to help a team (with draft picks) that for two years in a row has had the attitude that you're not good enough to be paid market value?!?! Not to mention, having to listen to all the butt hurt fans who will always hate him because he's not #10. 

 

TRANSITION TAG...........look it up 

 

And I swear I'm sick and tired of people quoting me on things and then preaching to me about stuff like I'm against signing Kirk to a LTD and want us to trade him, etc.  Last time I'm gonna say this and I'll put it in nice big red letters for those that feel the need to not read my entire posts or skim by certain parts:

 

I WANT KIRK SIGNED TO A LTD AND WANT HIM HERE FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

 

Just because I post/debate all the possible scenarios, does not mean I want that to happen or even expect that to happen.  And you, like I did to bobandweave, didn't read what I posted, I said transition tag, not "exclusive franchise tag" or "non-exclusive franchise tag".

1 hour ago, Veryoldschool said:

Today I make the odds:

 

1.  LTD on or before 3/1  30%

2.  FT on 3/1 and no LTD in 2017 60%

3.  LTD after 3/1 on or before 7/15 10%

 

They have been saying that Kirk will not sign a LTD until after March 1st when the franchise tag is applied and he signs it immediately so they can use the 23.9 million/yr as the starting average annual salary in negotiations.   So #1 is more like 0.0%.

 

Edit:  Since we don't know if Kirk really wants to be here or not and what they will be asking for in terms of guaranteed money, etc., I think you have to go with it being 50/50 on if a LTD is signed or not by the July 15th deadline.  We just don't have enough facts/info.  Heck, we have no idea if the Redskins already know what their final offer is on a LTD (what they will not budge on - base/guaranteed/etc.) and are prepared to seek out trade partners.  Or if they are happy this year paying him for one more year.  Or if they will pay him what he wants/deserves.

[Taylor 36]

46 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Guess when you were checking stats you may have missed how many 5000 yard passing seasons Brees has had and how many KC has not had. Forget the ring and his payoff wins but KC is not even close to the player Drew Brees is. Cheers.

Guess you forgot that Brees has been a full season starter in the league since 2002, twelve years more than Cousins???  Did you happen to check and compare Kirk's numbers as a starter with Brees' numbers his first two years as a starter?  Because if you did, you would have seen that Cousins is actually farther ahead of Brees at this point in their respective careers, and Cousins doesn't have an LT, Sproles, or top 10 ranked defense to help carry the load.

[50yrSKINSfan]

Just now, Taylor 36 said:

Guess you forgot that Brees has been a full season starter in the league since 2002, twelve years more than Cousins???  Did you happen to check and compare Kirk's numbers as a starter with Brees' numbers his first two years as a starter?  Because if you did, you would have seen that Cousins is actually farther ahead of Brees at this point in their respective careers, and Cousins doesn't have an LT, Sproles, or top 10 ranked defense to help carry the load.

Let me know when KC gets a championship or comes close to a 5000 yard season then he will be worth 23 mil a year. I did not forget that DB has been a starter since he came into the league, unlike KC who had to sit the bench. I did not forget about DB big 10 passing records while KC was lucky to be a starter. I did not forget since joining the Saints DB has led ALL nfl QBs in passing and TDs. I did not forget that KC has 4 very good receivers and that my aunt Tilly could complete a million passes if she had them. I guess we should pay KC,  Big Ben, Eli, and Drew Brees money because he had better numbers than DB his first 2 years as a starter even though he sat the bench for his first 2-3 years. Only on ES will you find someone to spin a thread and dare to compare KC to Drew Brees. What is next, KC is the next Joe Montana? Cheers.

[Rattlesnake88]

4 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Let me know when KC gets a championship or comes close to a 5000 yard season then he will be worth 23 mil a year.

Last season he "came close" to a 5k season. Poor example.

[SkinInsite]

Cousins cap hit is going to be similar if he's on LTD or FT so what's the hurry to get it done?

 

They got until 7/15 to work everything out.

 

[Taylor 36]

13 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Let me know when KC gets a championship or comes close to a 5000 yard season then he will be worth 23 mil a year.

He's come close to a 5,000 yard season (4917 last season against the toughest defensive schedule in the league) and well ahead of Brees' pace.  Again, Brees has 12 years as a starter on him; Kirk has only 2 years as a starter, and you want to knock him for not having as many years as Brees doing blah, blah, blah?  At this rate, Kirk will have a chance to have more championships and more 5,000 yard seasons than Brees when he has 14 years as a starter under his belt.  Compare their first two seasons as a starter.  Kirk is ahead of Drew after two years of starting.

[spjunkies]

I can't wait until we trade him to SF so the nonsense over this guy is over.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

1 minute ago, SkinInsite said:

Cousins cap hit is going to be similar if he's on LTD or FT so what's the hurry to get it done?

 

They got until 7/15 to work everything out.

 

 

There isn't a hurry and everyone is on pins and needles when they don't need to be yet.  It's been reported that he isn't signing a LTD before the tag deadline.  That he will sign the tag guaranteeing him 24 million and will use the 23.9 million as the average annual salary in the start of the negotiations.  Not having a LTD before that means nothing.  

 

July 1st if we haven't seen him sign a LTD, and there is no news/info coming out about getting close, then worry away.