ES Coverage & Interactive Game Day Thread: 2015 #Redskins at Jets Final

[TheCoach22]

There's the answer right there

I've enjoyed reading your posts for a long time and we've rarely been so far apart on views as this issue. Honest questions...and I will resist turning back the clock to my beliefs about last season, because honestly that ship has sailed and I see no scenario where Griffin takes a snap for Gruden again.

1) Do you see anything in Gruden that suggests he figures this out? What is his biggest strength as a coach?

2) Same questionsrelated to Cousins?

I am emotional, but I also think I am honest in assessing our players and people. I see nothing in Gruden, absolutely nothing. I see occasional moments in Kirk but think he is a back-up at best.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I think Gruden's offense looks fine. Guys get open and are in the position to make plays. The team looks way more disciplined and mentally strong this year. I don't think Gruden has shown to be baby Belicheck but he's no where near as bad as fans will make him out to be.

No matter what narrative ppl wanna spin, Gruden didn't draft Kirk. He's not his guy. Gruden is trying to make the best of **** situation and I'm willing to give him the time. This is the first season where we have been competitive week in and week out for years. I'm giving that credit to Gruden.

Also, his job was not to make Griffin not suck. His job was to stop the team from sucking. He's not all the way there but he's getting there.

In terms of Kirk, he's proven to still make the same terrible mistakes that he's been making. I honestly wouldn't care if Colt started Sunday but it's whatever.

[dyst]

THEY WERE RUNNING IN THE HURRY UP.

Thompson is on the field for that and you can't just sub in and out. It's not that hard a concept to grasp

Well it didn't work so I don't get why people are trying to rationalize it. Call a time out and get Morris in the game. If Thompson is in, then throw it to him or run him wide. You don't have him go up the middle against a good defense that's been stopping you all day.

[88Comrade2000]

Tik Tok. Tik Tok.  The clock is ticking for Cousins and Gruden.  A loss next week and time could be up for both of them. Definitely, one of them.

[TK]

 

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[Rskins06]

So you're guaranteeing a win against Tampa? Don't you think that's a bit optimistic at this point? We can't run, we can't pass and our defense is getting gashed all of a sudden. 2-5 going into the bye is an real option at this point. If that happens things are going to get ugly.

Nope, I don't think that is a bit optimistic. I think they beat TB and won't be close. I think we get some starters back, defense continues to take ball away and they play a solid game. If people are ready to throw in the towel, that's fine. They lost to a very good team yesterday who has a very good defense. Half the offensive starters were out yesterday, defense couldn't stop the run again, not sure why anyone expected them to win. They had to be perfect to even be in the game. We all know KC is a young QB and is going to make mistakes, but he is going to get better.

[sempre_victrix]

What we're seeing is the results of giving away 2 1sts and a 2nd. And that does not even take into account another first being a bust.

Hate to say I told you so.

[Sticksboi05]

In terms of Kirk, he's proven to still make the same terrible mistakes that he's been making. I honestly wouldn't care if Colt started Sunday but it's whatever.

 

What it comes down to is this. Kirk can be an effective QB if he doesn't have to do it himself. We expected him to simply feed off the running game this season and keep his attempts under 30 a game, ideally around 25 even. What we;re seeing is what happens when the wheels fall off the run game (which amazingly, has taken little to no blame for sucking for a month now, it's all the QB). Right now, Kirk is limited. We know that. So the key is, that running game better be fixed because when you ask Kirk to throw 40x ...you'll get one Philly game and 5 Jets games each go around.

 

It'll get better with DeSean coming back so we can actually try to throw past 15 yards for once.  But as long as the run game is at an unacceptable level, we're going to have major issues. That was supposed to be out focal point. And even in the Philly game where Kirk was great, it still sucked.

[SkinsGuy]

Tik Tok. Tik Tok.  The clock is ticking for Cousins and Gruden.  A loss next week and time could be up for both of them. Definitely, one of them.

 

I seriously doubt you have any sort of eye on Snyder's watch.

[SkinsGuy]

What it comes down to is this. Kirk can be an effective QB if he doesn't have to do it himself. We expected him to simply feed off the running game this season and keep his attempts under 30 a game, ideally around 25 even. What we;re seeing is what happens when the wheels fall off the run game (which amazingly, has taken little to no blame for sucking for a month now, it's all the QB). Right now, Kirk is limited. We know that. So the key is, that running game better be fixed because when you ask Kirk to throw 40x ...you'll get one Philly game and 5 Jets games each go around.

 

It'll get better with DeSean coming back so we can actually try to throw past 15 yards for once.  But as long as the run game is at an unacceptable level, we're going to have major issues. That was supposed to be out focal point. And even in the Philly game where Kirk was great, it still sucked.

 

There is nothing to "fix" in the running game. It is just simply being stopped.

 

Opposing teams are stacking the box, shutting down all running lanes, and daring Cousins to beat them. He can't because:

 

1. He just hasn't been consistent enough and..

 

2. More importantly, he is missing his best pass catchers (Reed, Jackson).

 

The Jets can get away with that strategy because they have guys like Revis in their secondary. The Eagles couldn't because their secondary isn't as sound.

 

Hopefully, we will get some of these injured players back soon.

What we're seeing is the results of giving away 2 1sts and a 2nd. And that does not even take into account another first being a bust.

Hate to say I told you so.

 

I seriously doubt you hate it.

 

Besides, it is a waste of bandwith to bring it up. The people running things now (Scott and Gruden) didn't have anything to do with the trade. The ones that did are gone or aren't running that part of the team anymore (Allen).

 

Bringing it up an old trade is just wallowing in the past. Nothing can be done about it now.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

Went to the game yesterday...

 

My take:

 

The D was terrible the entire game. We cannot pressure the QB at all. Knighton was supposed to be our man up the middle and he has been a major letdown to say the least. Feel like we never Blitz and are just playing a "play it safe" kind of D where we let the team march down the field on us and we hope to hold them to a FG.

 

The O is beyond terrible. Im done with Cousins. They have designed an offense to run slants/crosses and the guy is too inaccurate to make the throws. He also can't throw the long ball. How are you supposed to win games with a guy who can't run the O? 

 

The O-line i thought played very well for having so many backups. With that said tho i feel like D's aren't sending pressure because they know if they sit in a zone Cousins will make the mistake. The run game is non-existent. The only bright side on the offensive side of the ball is the O-line and Crowder. 

 

Special teams for once had a decent game. Way got away with a terrible kick that ended up getting a great bounce. The blocked kick almost gave us a shot at getting back in the game.

 

Overall im ready for Robert or McCoy to get another chance. The division is bad this year...feel like with someone who can manage the game we could possibly steal the division...but we aren't doing that with Cousins.

 

If we lose this week to Tampa....Cousins better be benched.  

[mistertim]

 

It'll get better with DeSean coming back so we can actually try to throw past 15 yards for once.  But as long as the run game is at an unacceptable level, we're going to have major issues. That was supposed to be out focal point. And even in the Philly game where Kirk was great, it still sucked.

We can throw past 15 yards now, we just don't do it much; for whatever reason Gruden has kept the passing very short to intermediate this year...my guess is trying to keep Kirk clean and limit his mistakes. DJax isn't the only guy we have who can run past 15 yards. He also can't catch passes that don't get to where he is...Kirk's deep accuracy especially has been terrible this year. Not sure why so many people see DJax coming back as some sort of cure all panacea that will suddenly make things right in our passing game. He can't make Kirk accurate and he can't stop Kirk from making horrible decisions with the ball and throwing INTs.

[50yrSKINSfan]

What we're seeing is the results of giving away 2 1sts and a 2nd. And that does not even take into account another first being a bust.

Hate to say I told you so.

AMEN. A bad deal like that sets your organization back 10 years. 

What it comes down to is this. Kirk can be an effective QB if he doesn't have to do it himself. We expected him to simply feed off the running game this season and keep his attempts under 30 a game, ideally around 25 even. What we;re seeing is what happens when the wheels fall off the run game (which amazingly, has taken little to no blame for sucking for a month now, it's all the QB). Right now, Kirk is limited. We know that. So the key is, that running game better be fixed because when you ask Kirk to throw 40x ...you'll get one Philly game and 5 Jets games each go around.

 

It'll get better with DeSean coming back so we can actually try to throw past 15 yards for once.  But as long as the run game is at an unacceptable level, we're going to have major issues. That was supposed to be out focal point. And even in the Philly game where Kirk was great, it still sucked.

Right on. The Redskins are a running team until they get a Brady or a Rodgers. If they can't run they are toast.

[50yrSKINSfan]

There is nothing to "fix" in the running game. It is just simply being stopped.

 

Opposing teams are stacking the box, shutting down all running lanes, and daring Cousins to beat them. He can't because:

 

1. He just hasn't been consistent enough and..

 

2. More importantly, he is missing his best pass catchers (Reed, Jackson).

 

The Jets can get away with that strategy because they have guys like Revis in their secondary. The Eagles couldn't because their secondary isn't as sound.

 

Hopefully, we will get some of these injured players back soon.

 

I seriously doubt you hate it.

 

Besides, it is a waste of bandwith to bring it up. The people running things now (Scott and Gruden) didn't have anything to do with the trade. The ones that did are gone or aren't running that part of the team anymore (Allen).

 

Bringing it up an old trade is just wallowing in the past. Nothing can be done about it now.

Is it wallowing in the past seeing 3 firsts and a second standing on the sidelines every game? That deal killed us and we will continue to pay for it for the next 5 years at least.

[SkinsGuy]

S.T. real,lights,out writes:

 

 

 

 

Went to the game yesterday...

 

My take:

 

The D was terrible the entire game. We cannot pressure the QB at all. Knighton was supposed to be our man up the middle and he has been a major letdown to say the least. Feel like we never Blitz and are just playing a "play it safe" kind of D where we let the team march down the field on us and we hope to hold them to a FG.

 

My belief is that with the injuries the Redskins have had in the secondary, they have had no choice but to use a "play it safe" defense to protect against the big play.

 

Injuries have crippled this team, and I don't think they can run the defense the way they want to. They've been back ending the defense, to help the depleted secondary. It's prevented them from using blitzes, and would explain why teams are now able to run on us.

 

I think things will get better when we get some players back, but for now, they have to manage with what they have.

Is it wallowing in the past seeing 3 firsts and a second standing on the sidelines every game? That deal killed us and we will continue to pay for it for the next 5 years at least.

 

It is wallowing because nothing can be done about it now. It has happened, and no one can change it.

[Wildbunny]

Sure but there's no evidence that SM has said, or thinks that.

Breeland is great, but Culliver is probably the best CB we have. The injuries also force people to take roles they're not suited for.

The safety spot is also a mess. Ihenacho has a big loss.

They're working around having Larry/Mo and Curly in the secondary.

The issue today with the D is that they got bullied up-front. And the offense didn't help out, especially when they ran like 8 plays and had 2 turnovers in the 3rd quarter.

 

Next man up in line are Smithers and Flaunders.

Our new S&C coach should feel the heat, after all, he's supposed to get our guys ready and in good health to play football. Looks like a big miss so far.

 

He married himself to Cousins when he chose him to start over the guy the owner is friends with, was the second pick in the draft and the team paid a huge price for. When you make that decision as a coach. You are banking your future on it.

 

Well that's your opinion, as the HC, he has the choice to pick whoever he feels is the best to run the team. Now if he only have to pick between Ryan Leaf, Heath Shuler and Dany Wuerffel, I wouldn't blame him. After all, AFAIK, it's up to Scott to pick players no? HC is doing with what the GM gives him, and no QBs have been picked by this GM.

 

I've enjoyed reading your posts for a long time and we've rarely been so far apart on views as this issue. Honest questions...and I will resist turning back the clock to my beliefs about last season, because honestly that ship has sailed and I see no scenario where Griffin takes a snap for Gruden again.

1) Do you see anything in Gruden that suggests he figures this out? What is his biggest strength as a coach?

2) Same questionsrelated to Cousins?

I am emotional, but I also think I am honest in assessing our players and people. I see nothing in Gruden, absolutely nothing. I see occasional moments in Kirk but think he is a back-up at best.

 

Well, besides as many flak as Gruden is taking, he's capable of assembling an interesting Coaching Staff. Heck, even with Kotwica, our ST went from fubar at the beginning of the season to good, and even blocked a punt for a TD against the Jets. Our Pass Protection is doing nice.

Penalties are trending down the last two games where we had a combined 8 penalties, while the other games we averaged 10+ penalties a game. So coaching is doing good.

And if you want to bring in Play Calling, McVay does most of the Play Calling, not Jay in my opinion if you consider his answer regarding the screen play from last week against ATL.

Finally, he acknowledge he mades tons of mistakes and corrected every one of them during the offseason (QB coach and stuff like that).

 

Cousins? He have the team behind him, which is a change of pace. His only problem is he's no Tom Brady while we need that kind of QB play right now. And he's been 4 year in the league where we just wasted his time. He can read defenses, and make adjustment on the line. He doesn't get sacked much, and his giving his best.

 

Tik Tok. Tik Tok.  The clock is ticking for Cousins and Gruden.  A loss next week and time could be up for both of them. Definitely, one of them.

 

Firing HC or benching QB right before NE would be a suicide for the next guy to come...You shouldn't do it by any means. Anyway, firing Coaches in season usually does you no good. And for those that think Bowles is a great goach, Zorn used to be 6-2 during his first year as a HC here after 8 games.

 

We can throw past 15 yards now, we just don't do it much; for whatever reason Gruden has kept the passing very short to intermediate this year...my guess is trying to keep Kirk clean and limit his mistakes. DJax isn't the only guy we have who can run past 15 yards. He also can't catch passes that don't get to where he is...Kirk's deep accuracy especially has been terrible this year. Not sure why so many people see DJax coming back as some sort of cure all panacea that will suddenly make things right in our passing game. He can't make Kirk accurate and he can't stop Kirk from making horrible decisions with the ball and throwing INTs.

 

I would say that DJax is the only guy opposing DCs really fear right now. Garcon and Reed, no so much, they're tough possession receiver that will get the job done and gain consistent yards, and occasionnally a big play, but you can take care of both of them and limit their effect through the game. DJax is basically a big play potential threat each time he's on the field.

 

Our Receivers for last game:

- Rashad Ross

- Ryan Grant

- Pierre Garcon

- Derek Carrier

- Andre Roberts

- Jamison Crowder

- Anthony McCoy

Is there someone any DC should fear in this receiving corps? Really? Jets put Revis on Garcon and call it a day. It's quite simple then to stack the box, close the running game and have fun all day. Heck, if our O send Roberts and Crowder down the field, Safety know he can double Crowder as Roberts is most likely to drop it.

We're not playing the Possee on a weekly basis. That's a bunch of castoff, rookies and guys that spend last year on the practice squad last year. With young guys, and cast off, you're most likely to have guys that are not at the right place, not getting enough separation, and stuff like that. Garcon is the only vet that is worth it, and Crowder is the sensation of the moment, we'll have to wait to see if it's a bush fire or if he's in for real.

On the play Thompson got hurt, I've read stuff like horrible pass in the gameday thread while the ball went right through Thompson's hands...

My belief is that with the injuries the Redskins have had in the secondary, they have had no choice but to use a "play it safe" defense to protect against the big play.

 

Injuries have crippled this team, and I don't think they can run the defense the way they want to. They've been back ending the defense, to help the depleted secondary. It's prevented them from using blitzes, and would explain why teams are now able to run on us.

 

I think things will get better when we get some players back, but for now, they have to manage with what they have.

 

It is wallowing because nothing can be done about it now. It has happened, and no one can change it.

 

That's one of my opinion on the matter. We're playing D to help the secondary so we're not getting torched all the day. We're able to generate decent pressure with the front four so that helps, but our Run D is suffering from it. Opposing O knows about it and take advantage of it. We were OK at the beginning due to TOP from our O, but with the O not having a running game lately, I tend to believe our guys are getting exhausting quite often. Let's be real, our LB corps aren't suited up to go in Zone/Man on every play.

[NewCliche21]

Typically you find solid starters at positions like guard, linebacker and saftey in those draft spots. Not easy to find a solid starting QB 3rd round and lower. Heck not easy to find one picking in the 1st round for that matter, but the lower you draft the lower your odds get.

 

Yeah, but other teams have done it, and the good GMs are the ones who can find them even just by taking a flyer.  Wilson won a Super Bowl as a third-round pick.  Brady won the next one (and three others while going to two others) as a sixth-round pick.  Same with Brees (who was then available for nothing after San Diego, even just a flyer).

 

First-round players, especially quarterbacks, are expected to be starters.  I don't care if we get a fourth-rounder who sits for a year or two and becomes great once given an opportunity, because we're aiming for the future.  I'm under no illusion that Brady is an anomaly, but the guys are out there.  Dalton wasn't first-round and he's 6-0.  Brady 5-0.  Fitzpatrick 5-1.   Again, it's not every quarterback, but we only need one, and that will last us a decade.  And if you look at all of the Super Bowl-winning quarterbacks, a significant amount of them are NOT first-round picks.

 

I'm not saying that they're there every draft, but I hope that Scot finds one for us.

[sempre_victrix]

I seriously doubt you hate it.

 

Besides, it is a waste of bandwith to bring it up. The people running things now (Scott and Gruden) didn't have anything to do with the trade. The ones that did are gone or aren't running that part of the team anymore (Allen).

 

Bringing it up an old trade is just wallowing in the past. Nothing can be done about it now.

 

Honestly, I wish I had been wrong and it would have led us to multpile playoff games by now.

 

I'm not so much wallowing as much as I am reminding people and hoping that we never, ever make this mistake again.

[Supreme Wu]

I could coach the Bucs to a win.  On D load up against the run because the pass wont hurt you.  On O rush outside because the defense has no lateral speed.  In the third quarter, just have fun out there.

[gortiz]

you guys notice this: 

 

https://twitter.com/MarkBullockNFL/status/656140485744922624

[Wildbunny]

Yeah, but other teams have done it, and the good GMs are the ones who can find them even just by taking a flyer.  Wilson won a Super Bowl as a third-round pick.  Brady won the next one (and three others while going to two others) as a sixth-round pick.  Same with Brees (who was then available for nothing after San Diego, even just a flyer).

 

First-round players, especially quarterbacks, are expected to be starters.  I don't care if we get a fourth-rounder who sits for a year or two and becomes great once given an opportunity, because we're aiming for the future.  I'm under no illusion that Brady is an anomaly, but the guys are out there.  Dalton wasn't first-round and he's 6-0.  Brady 5-0.  Fitzpatrick 5-1.   Again, it's not every quarterback, but we only need one, and that will last us a decade.  And if you look at all of the Super Bowl-winning quarterbacks, a significant amount of them are NOT first-round picks.

 

I'm not saying that they're there every draft, but I hope that Scot finds one for us.

 

Well at some point, Campbell was 6-2 for Zorn without throwing an int for something like what? 6 games? Brees was crappy before coming to the Saints. There's whole example throughout the league and history that goes both ways... Ryan Leaf / Peyton Manning choice each year.

 

I could coach the Bucs to a win.  On D load up against the run because the pass wont hurt you.  On O rush outside because the defense has no lateral speed.  In the third quarter, just have fun out there.

 

I hope you send a copy of your sum up to Scott and you'll be named our new HC in a few!

[mistertim]

 

I would say that DJax is the only guy opposing DCs really fear right now. Garcon and Reed, no so much, they're tough possession receiver that will get the job done and gain consistent yards, and occasionnally a big play, but you can take care of both of them and limit their effect through the game. DJax is basically a big play potential threat each time he's on the field.

I agree that DJax is the only WR who really would put fear in opposing DCs. IMO the problem is that our QB doesn't put any fear in opposing DCs. DJax's attributes that make him such a weapon are nullified if we have a QB who can't get the ball to him or get it to him accurately.

[clskinsfan]

You could be right, maybe I am just pissed at the way it has all shook out, but I don't understand why it had to be all or nothing with the transition. Why keep the ZBS in the run game based on personnel on the roster but then force a bad system down the throat of your QB? I don't get it.

 

I wouldnt call Gruden's system bad. Andy Dalton is playing lights out right now in that system. 

[Jumbo]

I agree that DJax is the only WR who really would put fear in opposing DCs. IMO the problem is that our QB doesn't put any fear in opposing DCs. DJax's attributes that make him such a weapon are nullified if we have a QB who can't get the ball to him or get it to him accurately.

 

 

Keeping mind I think you're very dug into your bias, and knowing how after Kirk's showing yesterday makes it especially tough to say anything other than "he sucks", after reading this I wanted to remind how DeSean thinks that Kirk throws the best long ball to him out of the guys on the team.

 

Sooo....DeSean disagrees. 

[kost203]

Few observations from yesterday's game.

-many jet fans knew how bad we were banged up and we're still in doubt but of course confident of a positive outcome. My reply why wouldn't they be confident, everyone should be of there team.

-how come we didn't get carrier involved more? He seemed to be an issue with them covering.

- we can't pass rush for jack!

-our ilb's got exposed! Not sure if it was cause our fat boys got owned or what.

- we let this game get away once again. The 3rd quarter should get fast forwarded, cousins looked like he couldn't get a good grip and was hesitating allot. Can't think as a qb gotta react and anticipate.

- and what relent bothered me was how the f did we allow fitz run all over the place!!!!

- and closing being at the game and beer the endzone was hoping to get a skins player jump into the stands but nope.