wit33 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 last few weeks defense has been strong overall, i believe a lot of it is change at linebacker to compton/foster Not a football coach by any means, but it does seem the physicality has ramped up since change at middle LB. Two guys who are relishing in opportunity and doing everything in power to not relinquish starting roles. Awesome!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasRoane Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 AS much as I like Kirk Cousins, I have to admit that Carr and Bortles may have more upside along their career than Kirk.Sure Tom is 37, Peyton is 38, romoSUCKS as well, Eli is 35 or 36... Rodgers is 32, Big Ben, Carson Palmer, all of them are closing to retirement. ... Will he play until 37 like Brady? Nobody knows, Brady's been extremly reliable and healthy throughout his career except for one season. Kirk seems to be tough to go down as well, he had one minor in 2013 IIRC, but since he's been the backup mostly, the sample is relatively small to judge if he can endure a long career. I'm gonna get angry about guys saying QB leaving plays on the field. Some points regarding it: Look at the challenges that Kirk has had to deal with. No running game. Constant shuffling at TE. Missing two of his best weapons (Jordan - 2 games) and D-Jax for 6 games (maybe more and really the last three games he finally got his legs back). Bortles has two good weapons in Allen Robinson (ranked 7th in receiving) and Allen Hums (24th). Carr has Cooper (13th) and Crabtree (28th). Reed (who missed two games) leads the Redskins with 778 yards and is ranked 34th. Kirk hasn't had the benefit of a home run player until D-Jax got his groove back. Now, let's look at schedules. Bortles Opponents: Division: Titans, Colts, Texans Other: Carolina (home), Miami (home), Patriots (away), Tampa (away), Buffalo (home), Jets (away), Baltimore (away), Chargers (home), Atl (home), and Saints (away). Carr's Opponents: Division: Chargers, Chief, Broncos Other: Bengals (home), Ravens (home), Browns (away), Bears (away), Jets (home), Steelers (away), Vikings (home), Lions (away), Titans (away), and Packers (home), Cousin's Opponents: Division: Cowpies, giants, eagles Other: Dolphins (home), Rams (home), Atl (away), Jets (away), Bucs (home), Pats (away), Saints (home), Panthers (away), Bears (home), and Bills (home) Bortles and Carr were anointed as "The Guys." They had all the off season reps with the first team. They didn't have to look over their shoulders every time they threw an interception. They didn't have to worry that one bad game could mean they would forever be classified as a "career backup" and nothing more. They didn't have fans (and maybe the team owner) cheering for a backup to take their jobs. They didn't have to worry if their Dad was going to beat cancer or not. So, it's not an easy apples to apples comparison. If Kirk played for 10 years then he would be the first Redskins QB in my lifetime to do so. I'D LIKE THAT! Kirk is very low mileage and his style doesn't appear to involve him in a lot of collisions. This kid has been thru hell and has overcome every obstacle thus far. Still not there yet I know. If he can get us into the playoffs and even win a game then you gotta be very encouraged that he is the right guy for the job. As to the comment about what Kirk is missing of course we understand that after the ball is passed everybody appears to be open. Because the defense has turned their attention elsewhere. We weren't alluding to that. We were talking about concepts within the offense that Cooley has pointed out are open. Now, of course that is next level stuff but it's very exciting as a fan because as good as Kirk is playing I'm confident that He, McVay and Gruden have so much more that their capable of producing given time together. You gotta LIKE THAT right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Something people need to understand about the West Coast offense. 1. The QB is going through progressions 2. Most of the progressions are short to deep 3. The QB is never supposed to turn down an open receiver If a receiver is open deep, the QB is going to miss him if another receiver earlier in the progression was also open. I get that, as it's something Cooley has gone over in his show quite a bit... But does it never progress (lol) past that? It always stays that rigid of a process? There's no growth to - yeah the underneath route is open but look there's Jackson 25 yards down field full stride blowing by everyone for a TD if I just throw it to him... ? edit: To me what you're describing always seemed like the starting point... as in - this is the system that if you stick to it should work. I always thought that good quarterbacks move past that. Not 100% of the time, but in moments when they realize that they can set the system to the side and go for the big play because it's there... and/or because the team needs it at that point in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 It's not Kirks fault as I'm sure he didn't expect "You like that" to go viral. I even liked it when he did it. But when it comes to posters finding endless ways to fit it into their posts, I don't like that. Ba-humbug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyJ Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 It's not Kirks fault as I'm sure he didn't expect "You like that" to go viral. I even liked it when he did it. But when it comes to posters finding endless ways to fit it into their posts, I don't like that. Ba-humbug. That's something I really don't get. I've got a friend who's a fan of the Vikings and loves Bridgewater to death. Yesterday, he asked me about Kirk, "is he getting a little full of himself?" I told him that since we're winning, we have no reason to complain about it. But why should it be a reason to complain anyway? Seriously, why is it that any time someone applies for a trademark, he's suddenly a "diva" or "full of himself"? Is there some sort of unspoken rule that players can't make money from anything but their contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I don't care that Kirk said it or trademarked it, he'd be dumb not to after it exploded. I was referring to the few posters who are on overkill with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petedaddy Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 That's something I really don't get. I've got a friend who's a fan of the Vikings and loves Bridgewater to death. Yesterday, he asked me about Kirk, "is he getting a little full of himself?" I told him that since we're winning, we have no reason to complain about it. But why should it be a reason to complain anyway? Seriously, why is it that any time someone applies for a trademark, he's suddenly a "diva" or "full of himself"? Is there some sort of unspoken rule that players can't make money from anything but their contract? especially when the proceeds from the shirt sales went to charity it also sounded like he trademarked it before the shirt sales, but it just got out now, not sure if creating controversy or people just now noticed either way, it's no big deal in my opinion I don't care that Kirk said it or trademarked it, he'd be dumb not to after it exploded. I was referring to the few posters who are on overkill with it. it's our rallying cry right now, if the team can get behind it, then so can we Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyJ Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I don't care that Kirk said it or trademarked it, he'd be dumb not to after it exploded. I was referring to the few posters who are on overkill with it. Ah, I see. I misread your post. But somehow I misread it to be criticizing people who are overly critical of him trademarking it. I don't know.... This is what happens when I get pizza on the brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Now if only we could make the posters have to donate for every time they use it, that would be a success! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasRoane Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Something people need to understand about the West Coast offense. 1. The QB is going through progressions 2. Most of the progressions are short to deep 3. The QB is never supposed to turn down an open receiver If a receiver is open deep, the QB is going to miss him if another receiver earlier in the progression was also open. While that is true to an extent Jay's offense is not just west coast. I see other concepts blended in which reminds me of my favorite quote by him when asked about his philosophy about an offense. His response was "I like plays that work." Now days the passing game has evolved into a three phased approach. 1. Rhythm routes. This would be something like a Post, Slant, or a Fade. Generally they're thrown in 1.5 seconds or at the top of the QB's drop. Usually if you have a favorable look pre-snap then you would just hit this route in rhythm. This can even be an option route where the QB and receiver think they have a 1v1 matchup and will just key off how the defense reacts. Generally, you're looking for anything greater than 7 yards here. Most often it would be the first option if the defense is playing off. 2. Explosive routes! These are my favorites. These are the chunk routes that I was talking about. This is more of an NFL concept that has filtered down thru the College games to the point where EVERY High School clinician talks about them. Pretty much every team in the NFL builds them into their game plans but not every QB can get to them. Football Outsiders does a good job of tracking them. For a passing play to be considered 'explosive' it is a play that gains 15+ yards in college or 20+ (for pass play) in the NFL. They make a HUGE difference and statistics show that a team is more likely to score a TD on a drive that involves one or more explosive plays. The reason is very simple. Think of everything that must go right to score on a 8 or more play drive. You can't afford too many penalties or negative plays. A lot of drives self destruct. An explosive play will allow you to minimize the number of plays you need to score. Psychologically, they are very much like a long, clutch 3 - pointer in Basketball. These kinds of plays take longer to develop. They might be a double move or use a longer developing concept like the Rail route that D-Jax ran for a TD. DJax had a receiver working inside while he loops behind him (kinda similar to the wheel route only a more direct line) and works up the sideline. Kirk put it on his back shoulder and thanks to a bad angle from Rambo (we've seen that before) D-Jax took it to the house. The explosive route can also be a late cross like the Redskins run a lot in their hi-low flood concept. They flood one side with something like a corner-flat vs the Bears and then drag a receiver from the opposite side over the LB's and in front of the safeties. Jordan Reed has caught a few of these. 3. Rush route. This would be a short route that the QB goes to when the pocket breaks down or the coverage is too good on his other routes. It would be something like a shallow, speed out (flat), Stick, or even a check-release from a back. Jay and McVay blend in a lot of explosive routes into their normal concepts. Kirk has got the basic concepts down pat. Like the Smash, NCAA, Corner-Flat, Hi-low Mesh, Flood, etc. What is still on the table are those explosive routes that he is yet to get to. But you can see it every now and then. If you've seen Crowder flying up the seam with a couple of steps on the next defender then you know what I mean. When you think about how good this offense can be (imagine a consistent running game for instance) it really gives you great hope for the future. I like what Kirk said about himself. He's not a game manager. He's a distributor. In other words, he is becoming that top notch point guard. A point guard who can see the big guy open in the post or the ball side cutter who has a step on his man. What he is getting to, slowly but surely, is seeing that spot up jump shooter in the opposite corner and manipulating the defense with his eyes so he can get that guy a wide open look. The ceiling isn't his limit. Maybe the sky... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuriousD Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Building on an earlier point about defense and running, the Redskins are currently ranked 29th in yards per carry and 25th in total defense. The team has never finished the season at .500 or made the playoffs without ranking in the top 10 in at least one of those categories in the Dan Snyder era (I didn't look further back) That speaks to how much this team has depended on the passing game. Not just for yards and points, but for simply holding onto the ball at all. If Kirk weren't playing well this season would be a complete disaster. Absolutely on point. SMac and Gruden made no bones they favored an old-school, run heavy approach to win games this year. It hasn't panned out on either side of the ball. Cousins, to his credit has put up his impressive numbers with a very weak running game to lean on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Ok, so it's Christmas, mf'ers lol (or almost)...Cousins Haters/Apologists/whatever and RG3 Haters/Fanboys/whatever, we're all some crazy EXTREME mofo's when we wanna be and all are Redskins fans till our dying breath. So enjoy these days, amigos...sleep in, pour extra rum in your eggnog, ask Mr. Sinister for his rum cake recipe lol (thumbsup), and get ready to watch Cousins and Jackson rip the Eagles to shreds... Merry Xmas to all I gave you the Rum cake recipe? Damn I don't even remember that lol. Must've been years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Seriously? You think Cousins has the most upside of any young QB in the league? Kirk isn't "young". He's 27. Same age as Stafford, Wilson, and Tannehill. Older than Luck, Newton, Winston, Mariota, Bortles, Carr, Manziel, Griffin, and Bridgewater. I think all of those people would still be considered young quarterbacks. But I think 27-28 is about the upper limit of that label. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasRoane Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I don't care that Kirk said it or trademarked it, he'd be dumb not to after it exploded. I was referring to the few posters who are on overkill with it. And it's pretty much going for charity right? Why hate on him for that? Absolutely on point. SMac and Gruden made no bones they favored an old-school, run heavy approach to win games this year. It hasn't panned out on either side of the ball. Cousins, to his credit has put up his impressive numbers with a very weak running game to lean on. The reason is quite simple. Our defense has neither the talent nor the depth to play at a high level for four quarters. In the third quarter they were gassed! As much as I loved that quick TD to D-Jax it actually hurt our defense. Maybe after a draft or two they will get to the point where they can start to dominate. But right now the defense needs to be protected and the best way is to have a long drive, time consuming drive. Probably not what they'd like to do but you have to play the cards your dealt as a coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petedaddy Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 And it's pretty much going for charity right? Why hate on him for that? He wasn't hating on Kirk, just on people who use it too much Without batteredfansyndrome and mattfancy, we would all be too happy here in the Cousins thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasRoane Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 He wasn't hating on Kirk, just on people who use it too much Without batteredfansyndrome and mattfancy, we would all be too happy here in the Cousins thread Oh, I didn't think for a second that BFS or Matt were talking bad about it. I'm just more curious about what's going on in social media. Which I avoid like the plague lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefanskins Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I've never tried deep dish before. Just rising crust. How does deep dish compare to the usual? I hadn't either until I lived in Chi Town...I loved it...more like a pie...deep layered and one slice can fill you up...I'd suggest you try it...however, its not the same at franchised places..like dominos or pizza hut..great stuff...I also grew fond of the chicago styled hotdog...just to warn ya..it has a pickle in it...the first time I had a chicago dog and bit into a crunch I wasn't expecting...lol freaked me out...mmmm chicago dog...good stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 It's not Kirks fault as I'm sure he didn't expect "You like that" to go viral. I even liked it when he did it. But when it comes to posters finding endless ways to fit it into their posts, I don't like that. Ba-humbug. So you dont "like that" when we "like that" but you "like that" when Kirk "asks if "You like that"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I get that, as it's something Cooley has gone over in his show quite a bit... But does it never progress (lol) past that? It always stays that rigid of a process? There's no growth to - yeah the underneath route is open but look there's Jackson 25 yards down field full stride blowing by everyone for a TD if I just throw it to him... He doesn't know that Jackson is running wide open 25 yards downfield. You can't see every receiver on the field at once. Our eyes jump from landmark to landmark. A play is usually designed for him to be looking at a specific receiver at the top of his drop (when his third step hits on a 3 step drop for example). If that guy is open, he's throwing it to him. If not, he takes a hitch step and his eyes move to his 2nd read and so on through the progression. Well if the 25 yard downfield Jackson is the third read but the first progression is an open Jordan Reed, the QB isn't supposed to hold on to the ball to look at #2 and #3. He's got to throw it to the guy he knows is open right away. This isn't always the case but it's an example of how a QB might miss a guy who is open deep while not technically making a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 What happens if next season KC struggles? Would it be considered a 'sophomore slump' as other rookie QBs tend to have? Would the fan base who is cheering for him now turn on him then? The only sophomore slump I would be okay with is the one that R. Wilson had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasRoane Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 He doesn't know that Jackson is running wide open 25 yards downfield. You can't see every receiver on the field at once. Our eyes jump from landmark to landmark. A play is usually designed for him to be looking at a specific receiver at the top of his drop (when his third step hits on a 3 step drop for example). If that guy is open, he's throwing it to him. If not, he takes a hitch step and his eyes move to his 2nd read and so on through the progression. Well if the 25 yard downfield Jackson is the third read but the first progression is an open Jordan Reed, the QB isn't supposed to hold on to the ball to look at #2 and #3. He's got to throw it to the guy he knows is open right away. This isn't always the case but it's an example of how a QB might miss a guy who is open deep while not technically making a mistake. No, it would not be considered a mistake for a young, developing QB to hit the first open read in a progression. But a QB that begins to understand all that is happening around him might earn the confidence of the staff to tell him to go ahead and take a chance on the explosive play if he feels like it might be available. Often, what will happen is the eyes in the sky will get a tip on what the defense is taking away and then the coaches will tell the QB in between possessions to check an explosive route if the he sees the right defense. I don't think it will be long before Kirk comes back and tells them some plays that might be open or to suggest some tweaks to take advantage of a defense that is over playing a route combo or a concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefanskins Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I don't think it will be long before Kirk comes back and tells them some plays that might be open or to suggest some tweaks to take advantage of a defense that is over playing a route combo or a concept. i'd be surprised if he ain't already doing that...smart guy...but you know that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShredder Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Been hearing a lot of discussion on how much Cousins is worth now. Professional athletes are ridiculously overpaid - that needs to be taken into account. I think if Cousins plays lights out on Saturday then he will get his $13-$16 million a year. Consistent, young QBs with a rocket arm who make accurate throws are hard to find in the NFL. Granted, he has only done it for one year. What's to say he won't regress next year? Well, that's the business of professional sports. Sometimes, players fall off and they still get paid tons of money. Sort of a non sequitor, but it's just a thought I've been having. Players only play well enough to get paid sometimes, then they suck. Remember that fat slob Albert Haynesworth? Perfect example - he was overrated from the start though imo. Anyway, Cousins has shown enough for me to want him back. Pay the man, just don't go overboard. Understand the market but don't give in to ridiculous demands. Sorry but if you read into a little more depth of the subject on the forthcoming KC contract you will clearly see that there is no way he will sign for 13-16 million a year. You're right about Pro athletes getting paid insane money. However, you're talking about a media driven, American Capitalistic benchmark multi-trillion dollar business...right? It's clearly about supply and demand at the macro sense. So, how much of the money goes to kickers? How much money goes to team Doctor? How much money (of the Trillions$$$) goes to fill the strongest and most vital ingredient for a winning formula in todays NFL??? Do the math. Should note that the Franchise Tag is $20 million for KC this year and will go up next year. Should you waste your opportunity now, the cost for management of this highly demanded and scarce commodity will cost you far more with each given day. This is just one factor in the basic formula for evaluation of a vital business investment. They can even overpay him in hypothetical contract terms to limit their liability and accomplish all the business related positive results for the organization...think about it: You give KC a 110 Million multi year contract. The sum of which is hypothetical as he will never get past year 3 of the deal either way (restructure), but it's for 5 or 6 years. Simply giving him an achievable incentive laden contract in the range of the Romo deal of 2012 would go a long way at hitting all the positives with an accelerated performance incentive deal. 110 million deal - 25 million signing bonus - 55 million guaranteed - Avg. 18 million per year. He's not signing for less than that at this point. If he does accept it and continues to grow with his team, it's a huge bargain! Top 10 QB's will be getting paid 25-35 million per year after 2016. This contract now, 2016, is a huge bargain either way and for both sides. No negatives. Even if he get's injured or completely fails in the future (which isn't as likely as many other QB's getting paid more). When you weigh the positives and negatives, the team saves 9 million over the first 3 years vs the RFA numbers; Get's 2012 salary range for huge upside; Sends an organizational message that the culture has changed and only those that produce get rewarded from the organization moving forward. Set an example and define the culture change. Send the right message. i'd be surprised if he ain't already doing that...smart guy...but you know that They already have added quiet a few audibles in doing just this. He's not on a short leash. The only sophomore slump I would be okay with is the one that R. Wilson had. I don't believe in the sophomore slump for a guy that's been in the league this long. R.Wilson was a true second year and had to adjust to the tape that was available for pro coordinators that were game planning against him. Some things just won't work the same. Now, in his 4th season, he's made adjustments and expanded his game to be ballin' out at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffmark1 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Seriously? You think Cousins has the most upside of any young QB in the league? Kirk isn't "young". He's 27. Same age as Stafford, Wilson, and Tannehill. Older than Luck, Newton, Winston, Mariota, Bortles, Carr, Manziel, Griffin, and Bridgewater. i stand by my statement and i think in time i will be proven right. but i will redact everything else since it has been beaten to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 I've never tried deep dish before. Just rising crust. How does deep dish compare to the usual? Deep dish is amazing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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