Cousins Is The Man

[Newera]

(When his career is over here), Kirk will go down as probably the best redskins quarterback ever.  Get  your pop corn ready.  That number eight ain't gonna be worn again.  

 

Sorry Sonny. Sammy.  It's a new era. 

 

Clown me if you want.  Dude can ball.  

 

Bout time we got a "Real" quarterback.

 

Wait until Scotty Mac puts even better players around him.

 

And, Kirk get's even more seasoning.

 

Still Cam and Wilson gonna be problems. 

[petedaddy]

Peyton Manning is older than Elway (his boss) was when he retired. BTW, he still leads the league in INTs.

 

Cousins has at least another decade until his body starts to fall apart like Grandpa Manning.

 

peyton makes me sad, i'm a really big peyton fan, and hate to see it come to this, i'm still hopeful he can make one last hurrah

 

peyton is the reason i can understand RG3 fans, i'm in love with peyton, but could care less about the broncos, so when osweiler is playing, i root so hard for the broncos to look awful, but when peyton is playing, the broncos are my second favorite team, although i will say i can't understand that mentality if you were already a redskins fan prior to RG3

[NickyJ]

peyton makes me sad, i'm a really big peyton fan, and hate to see it come to this, i'm still hopeful he can make one last hurrah

 

peyton is the reason i can understand RG3 fans, i'm in love with peyton, but could care less about the broncos, so when osweiler is playing, i root so hard for the broncos to look awful, but when peyton is playing, the broncos are my second favorite team, although i will say i can't understand that mentality if you were already a redskins fan prior to RG3

Actually, I like both Peyton and Osweiler. Peyton was the best QB when I first started paying attention to football, and continued to be among the best up until the end of 2013. I like underdogs as much as the next guy, but there's also something fun in watching someone who is always good, always reliable, always coming through when it matters (playoffs not withstanding) while we floundered. Even so, he's the hero that's riding off into the sunset, and so I'd love to see Osweiler come in and not be weighed down by the enormous shoes that the hero left behind.

[TheCoach22]

it's interesting to be cautious for kirk, but really promote carr and bortles (2 other QB's who can actually throw the ball) who are starting to come around with game time

i feel kirk in fewer starts than bortles and carr is further along

I was very hot and cold on Kirk (he was also hot and cold until two months ago) and I certainly took some frustration with Gruden out on Kirk... Glad to be wrong, but still totally disagree with the sentiment you posted above. I view Carr and Bortles as less seasoned than Cousins. I also view them all as pretty equal, although Cousins is the hottest right now.

All three had college careers as starters, Kirk worked in the most pro-style offense at MSU. Cousins has started what 10 preseason games? He is in his fourth season. He scattered starts over each of them and played in some big moments. He worked with Shanny, both Grudens, etc.

I think we have to acknowledge that this rapid improvement this season is a combination of repetition, experience, new confidence and better players around him. It is all coming together, but we can't pretend this equates to his second NFL season when it is in-fact his fourth. He isn't closing in 50+ starts like others in his draft class, but he isn't a rookie either.

Truth... He could stay what he is right now for the next 10 years and that would be good enough to hold pretty much every franchise record and win a Lombardi or two. I would take it in a heart beat. He looks like a legit NFL QB. The team being assembled around him is going to be good enough to win with him playing at his current level. Over time, some of the inconsistencies will dwindle and he will be even better. Big one Saturday, but I have a feeling he goes out and gets it! HTTR!

[petedaddy]

I was very hot and cold on Kirk (he was also hot and cold until two months ago) and I certainly took some frustration with Gruden out on Kirk... Glad to be wrong, but still totally disagree with the sentiment you posted above. I view Carr and Bortles as less seasoned than Cousins. I also view them all as pretty equal, although Cousins is the hottest right now.

All three had college careers as starters, Kirk worked in the most pro-style offense at MSU. Cousins has started what 10 preseason games? He is in his fourth season. He scattered starts over each of them and played in some big moments. He worked with Shanny, both Grudens, etc.

I think we have to acknowledge that this rapid improvement this season is a combination of repetition, experience, new confidence and better players around him. It is all coming together, but we can't pretend this equates to his second NFL season when it is in-fact his fourth. He isn't closing in 50+ starts like others in his draft class, but he isn't a rookie either.

Truth... He could stay what he is right now for the next 10 years and that would be good enough to hold pretty much every franchise record and win a Lombardi or two. I would take it in a heart beat. He looks like a legit NFL QB. The team being assembled around him is going to be good enough to win with him playing at his current level. Over time, some of the inconsistencies will dwindle and he will be even better. Big one Saturday, but I have a feeling he goes out and gets it! HTTR!

 

carr and bortles do have an offseason as unquestioned starter.  that is in addition to more starts, not by a huge amount, but still more starts

 

i still feel the offseason as unquestioned starter is a big deal, i think part of what we are seeing now is kirk and the receivers getting 100% comfortable with each other

[TheCoach22]

would probably still have to go with luck, assuming this year is an anomaly/injuries

I respectfully disagree. This season he was abysmal before his injury. He was hyped as the second coming since he was a sophomore in college and while he has all the tools to me he is going to be more Eli than Peyton. Dude is going to have some amazing moments and some WTF moments. People want him to be the second coming so badly, he gets more latitude than most QBs with the mainstream media. He will be better than this season, but he isn't going to be the love child of Tom Brady and John Elway morphed into one.

Cousins and Wilson are presently playing head and shoulders better than the rest of the 2012 class. I hope that is a trend that continues for a long time.

[petedaddy]

I respectfully disagree. This season he was abysmal before his injury. He was hyped as the second coming since he was a sophomore in college and while he has all the tools to me he is going to be more Eli than Peyton. Dude is going to have some amazing moments and some WTF moments. People want him to be the second coming so badly, he gets more latitude than most QBs with the mainstream media. He will be better than this season, but he isn't going to be the love child of Tom Brady and John Elway morphed into one.

Cousins and Wilson are presently playing head and shoulders better than the rest of the 2012 class. I hope that is a trend that continues for a long time.

 

agree with a lot of your points, luck definitely gets more leeway than most, and i have not been blown away by him, but he did come into a team that was bad enough to have the #1 pick overall, (how much of that was forced is another story)

 

my answer to luck was just in response to what young QB has the most promise, and i'm not sure who you'd still take over luck

 

completely agree though that he was godawful this year, but he is coming off an AFC championship appearance

[abdcskins]

Ah yes Brandon Llyod Christmas.

 

Another amazing trade for the Redskins lol.  A third rounder and a fourth rounder.  Almost as good as T.J. Duckett.

 

And yes I remember the poster haha.

[MartinC]

Once again you are referencing my posts, I always believed Kirk had it and said so all along. He has all the tools including most importantly a really quick mind and tremendous drive to succeed. A Brady like career is possible for Kirk with a smart FO and if Gruden continues to grow alongside Cousins.

Thank you for doing the homework to bring to light a couple of my old posts reminding all of my prescience this season. In you continue this effort I think you are honor duty bound to nominate me for ES poster of the year since you took the time to gather the data you should complete your task....:-)

Its Christmas and I am in a good mood so I am handing out a hall pass here - but please don't use the 'quote' feature to quote long posts or anything with pictures or gifs in.

If TSO catches you doing this he will not be as forgiving as I am

[MartinC]

I respectfully disagree. This season he was abysmal before his injury. He was hyped as the second coming since he was a sophomore in college and while he has all the tools to me he is going to be more Eli than Peyton. Dude is going to have some amazing moments and some WTF moments. People want him to be the second coming so badly, he gets more latitude than most QBs with the mainstream media. He will be better than this season, but he isn't going to be the love child of Tom Brady and John Elway morphed into one.

Cousins and Wilson are presently playing head and shoulders better than the rest of the 2012 class. I hope that is a trend that continues for a long time.

Luck has some amazing 'moments'?

Which one of the 101 TD passes he has in 3 and half seasons (40 in 2014 alone) do you consider to be those moments so far?

Its possible for Kirk to be good, maybe even very good, without having to downgrade the abilities of other QBs around the league.

[MattFancy]

kirk you like that cousins

 

Seriously? You think Cousins has the most upside of any young QB in the league?

 

Kirk isn't "young". He's 27. Same age as Stafford, Wilson, and Tannehill. Older than Luck, Newton, Winston, Mariota, Bortles, Carr, Manziel, Griffin, and Bridgewater.

[SkinsFTW]

Hey, for at least this year it's:

30 Blaine Gabbert, QB SF 128 205 62.4 1,452 7.08 71 7 6 21 82.8 242

31 Colin Kaepernick, QB SF 144 244 59.0 1,615 6.62 76 6 5 28 78.5 179

32 Andrew Luck, QB IND 162 293 55.3 1,881 6.42 87 15 12 15 74.9 269

33 Matt Cassel, QB BUF/DAL 119 204 58.3 1,276 6.26 51 5 7 14 70.6 160

34 Nick Foles, QB STL 190 337 56.4 2,052 6.09 68 7 10 14 69.0 187

35 Peyton Manning, QB DEN 193 322 59.9 2,180 6.77 75 9 17 15 67.6 242

[ThomasRoane]

Seriously? You think Cousins has the most upside of any young QB in the league?

 

Kirk isn't "young". He's 27. Same age as Stafford, Wilson, and Tannehill. Older than Luck, Newton, Winston, Mariota, Bortles, Carr, Manziel, Griffin, and Bridgewater.

 

You do know that Brady is 37 right?  Imagine Kirk, Gruden, and Scot McCloughan together for another 10 years.  Hell yeah I'd keep Kirk Cousins over anybody you listed!!!  He has the most upside for the WASHINGTON REDSKINS.  You would feel that way too if you weren't so hell bent on denying the fact that you were wrong about him.  Seems like being right is more important to you than being a Redskin's fan. 

[Llevron]

Hes definitely got the juice now! I just hope we don't over pay and have to get rid of all of his weapons in a year. That would just set him back. I like what we have going more now than I have like ever. Just gotta keep it up.

 

Yall trippin' about this I was right you were wrong stuff btw

[MattFancy]

You do know that Brady is 37 right?  Imagine Kirk, Gruden, and Scot McCloughan together for another 10 years.  Hell yeah I'd keep Kirk Cousins over anybody you listed!!!  He has the most upside for the WASHINGTON REDSKINS.  You would feel that way too if you weren't so hell bent on denying the fact that you were wrong about him.  Seems like being right is more important to you than being a Redskin's fan. 

 

You caught me, I've been a member on this site for 10 years, but secretly hate the Redskins. Gig is up!

[tshile]

after listening to the start of Cooley's breakdown, i've come up with my 'next step' for Cousins.

 

I actually think this is the difference between receiving an A and an A+ from Cooley, though I don't believe he's said as much? So I'm guessing.

 

He still leaves the bigger play on the field. I don't know the offense, obviously, so again I'm entirely guessing here. I also don't know how often the home viewers get to see this... it's my main complaint about watching on TV vs in person, you only get to see what they show you. If the TV crews are not doing you any favors, I can tell you that there are numerous plays through the course of these games where Cousins has someone open down field. I mean wide open. And it's usually Reed, Garcon, or Jackson. And he doesn't go to them with the ball.

 

I have no reason to not give Cousins the benefit of the doubt, so I assume this is because he's going through his progressions and hitting the first open guy. So, for example from Sunday, the 6 yard route to Jones out of the backfield is open and he's (say) read #2, and Garcon is wide open 18 yards down field but he's read #3 or #4 so the ball goes to Jones.

 

The obvious issue is that if you're going to skip the #2 read when he's open and go to #3 or #4, you better be right... because when you're not the coach is going to rip you a new one. Especially if you're really wrong and it turns into a turn over, or it's a critical 3rd down play, etc. So I have no idea when we should expect that from Cousins. Part of me thinks he's currently playing with house money, so why not sack up and see what happens? The other part thinks this isn't the time for that, wait until next year; new long term contract, should have even better talent around you (go go GMSM). and a clean slate to start working with instead of a division winning game. Also an entire off-season of first team reps and, presumably, a more mature offense/playbook.

 

I'm currently very happy with Cousins. So this isn't a moving of the goal posts, at least not how I view it. It's a realization that the ceiling might be much higher than I ever thought with him, and this is the next level to look for...

 You would feel that way too if you weren't so hell bent on denying the fact that you were wrong about him. 

 

MattFancy has in absolutely no way denied that he was wrong about him.

[MattFancy]

MattFancy has in absolutely no way denied that he was wrong about him.

 

Hell, I posted a few weeks back that I was coming in here to put my crow in the oven. I 100% admit I didn't see this type of season coming from Kirk. He's played well beyond my expectations of him and deserves to be here next year. I'm just not ready to jump all-in on him yet like some others have. And that's fine to believe he can be the "franchise". Myself, I just don't see that yet. He's having a really good year, but lots of other QBs have had really good years (i.e. Griffin). Let's see him do it more than once before we crown him, that's all.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

You do know that Brady is 37 right?  Imagine Kirk, Gruden, and Scot McCloughan together for another 10 years.  Hell yeah I'd keep Kirk Cousins over anybody you listed!!!  He has the most upside for the WASHINGTON REDSKINS.  You would feel that way too if you weren't so hell bent on denying the fact that you were wrong about him.  Seems like being right is more important to you than being a Redskin's fan. 

 

Considering the only QB's on the roster are Cousins, RG3 and McCoy - you would be correct in saying that he has the most upside for the Redskins.  But if you honestly believe that Kirk Cousins has the most upside of any QB in the league right here today, this is no different than the RG3 "fanboys" that post on emotion rather than analysis.  Posts like these do not help the cause.

[tshile]

Hell, I posted a few weeks back that I was coming in here to put my crow in the oven. I 100% admit I didn't see this type of season coming from Kirk. He's played well beyond my expectations of him and deserves to be here next year. I'm just not ready to jump all-in on him yet like some others have. And that's fine to believe he can be the "franchise". Myself, I just don't see that yet. He's having a really good year, but lots of other QBs have had really good years (i.e. Griffin). Let's see him do it more than once before we crown him, that's all.

 

I know.

 

You know how this goes though.

 

There are some people where if you're critical in any way, it means you're not a "true fan." Likewise there are some people that if you are overly optimistic you're a "homer."

 

You and I butted heads quite a bit on the issue back in august, and it was about more than just how good Cousins was or could be (in fact, I don't think it was about that at all...) While I disagreed with you, you aren't hell bent on anything and you're definitively more objective than many on the issue.

 

*shrug*

By the way, when I say wide open WR's are being missed... i mean jackson running with no one in front of him and someone 10 yards behind him.

 

Or Garcon or reed going up the seam with no on in front of them and the closest guy being 15 yards to the left/right of him.

 

Plays where if cousins hit them in stride you're very, very likely to get 7 out of it.

 

If you recall that pass to Ross, where he wound up stumbling after about a 7 yard gain? Well short of the first down? But if you looked at replays/film, it honest to god looks like if Ross keeps his footing that's not only a first down but he takes it into the endzone.. he was wide open. no one in front, closes guy could have been easily outrun. I'm talking about plays like that, except you have garcon or reed or jackson running the route.

[MattFancy]

I know.

 

You know how this goes though.

 

There are some people where if you're critical in any way, it means you're not a "true fan." Likewise there are some people that if you are overly optimistic you're a "homer."

 

You and I butted heads quite a bit on the issue back in august, and it was about more than just how good Cousins was or could be (in fact, I don't think it was about that at all...) While I disagreed with you, you aren't hell bent on anything and you're definitively more objective than many on the issue.

 

*shrug*

 

I have no problem I was wrong on Cousins. I honestly didn't see anything in the previous 3 seasons that showed he could be what he is right now. And honestly, I think alot of people saw the same things I did. Yes, I was wrong and have no problem admitting that.

 

Sure, maybe I held onto the Griffin hype a little too long. And I don't blame anyone else that felt that way. That 2012 run was magical. It was hard to just dismiss that season as a "fluke", even though now it looks like it may have been. Maybe it's because I hadn't seen a Redskins team win a division since 1999. I wanted so badly for Griffin to be the guy here. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case. I was wrong and I wish Griffin well as long as he doesn't play against us. I have no hard feelings towards him. Without him, we don't have that awesome 2012 season that brought us all together.

 

So yeah, I was wrong on the QB situation, but I was FAR from the only one that felt that way. If you think that doesn't make me a "good" Skins fan because I didn't trust Kirk at first, then so be it. I don't have to justify my fandom and what players I like to anyone on here.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Hell, I posted a few weeks back that I was coming in here to put my crow in the oven. I 100% admit I didn't see this type of season coming from Kirk. He's played well beyond my expectations of him and deserves to be here next year. I'm just not ready to jump all-in on him yet like some others have. And that's fine to believe he can be the "franchise". Myself, I just don't see that yet. He's having a really good year, but lots of other QBs have had really good years (i.e. Griffin). Let's see him do it more than once before we crown him, that's all.

 

I think we are splitting hairs a little bit. Eventually to pay a franchise QB you have to take a leap of faith. Very few career archs follow Brady's where you have the luxury of polishing 2-3 Lombardi trophies that the guy has won before you have to extend or re-sign him. In fact, really on Russell Wilson has come close to that since (winning one and appearing in another). 

 

Even Peyton Manning was in his 6th year before he won a playoff game. So, despite those numbers and regular season wins, that franchise must have had serious questions or concerns before they committed to him.

 

I just don't believe there's going to be a magical moment when everyone has no doubts that this is the guy you build around. You have to trust your football guys to recognize the trend and developement of the player. You also have to trust that they will make the right choice. But, nothing is guaranteed - he could flame out right after getting paid or he could win 2 championships. That's part of the fun. 

[MattFancy]

I think we are splitting hairs a little bit. Eventually to pay a franchise QB you have to take a leap of faith. Very few career archs follow Brady's where you have the luxury of polishing 2-3 Lombardi trophies that the guy has won before you have to extend or re-sign him. In fact, really on Russell Wilson has come close to that since (winning one and appearing in another). 

 

Even Peyton Manning was in his 6th year before he won a playoff game. So, despite those numbers and regular season wins, that franchise must have had serious questions or concerns before they committed to him.

 

I just don't believe there's going to be a magical moment when everyone has no doubts that this is the guy you build around. You have to trust your football guys to recognize the trend and developement of the player. You also have to trust that they will make the right choice. But, nothing is guaranteed - he could flame out right after getting paid or he could win 2 championships. That's part of the fun. 

 

I have no problem with them bringing him back and paying him like a "franchise QB". Frankly, there's no reason not to do that. But just because he's paid like one, doesn't mean he is one.

 

I'm glad we're in this predicament with McCloughan at the helm though. It would be an utter debacle with Allen running this show.

 

Do I think Kirk can have long-term success? Possibly. Would I be surprised if he did? Not really. Would I be surprised if he didn't? Nope. But I agree that it's a gamble this team needs to take at this point in time.

[tshile]

another possiblity:

he winds up being good enough because GMSM puts the right people around him and Gruden And Staff utilize them in the best way.

 

the desire is about rings.

[ThomasRoane]

I'm currently very happy with Cousins. So this isn't a moving of the goal posts, at least not how I view it. It's a realization that the ceiling might be much higher than I ever thought with him, and this is the next level to look for...

...

MattFancy has in absolutely no way denied that he was wrong about him.

 

Agreed about his potential ceiling.  I've been saying for a while that evaluating the QB position is an empirical process.  It's scary (in a good way) that he seems to be scratching the surface in this offense.  There is much more potential out there as far as hitting on more of those chunk/explosive plays.  That will come with time and experience.  The point is to keep the band together. 

 

As for Matt, I'm not buying what he's trying to sell.  He was being sneaky in trying to imply that Stafford, Wilson, Tannehill, Luck, Newton, Winston, Mariota, Bortles, Carr, Manziel, Griffin, and Bridgewater are all better than Kirk.  Throwing out Newton and Wilson I don't think any of those other guys are better for Jay Gruden's offense with the current personnel on the Washington Redskins. 

 

And that is my point to you too Battered Fan Syndrome.  Implying that I'm a homer because you didn't understand my point is out of bounds.  Based on Gruden's offense which one of those QB's Matt listed (not named Wilson or Newton) would you rather have playing QB right now going into a pivotal game vs Philly this weekend and heading into next year?

[SkinsFTW]

Very few career archs follow Brady's where you have the luxury of polishing 2-3 Lombardi trophies that the guy has won before you have to extend or re-sign him.

 

Even Brady got a new contract after his first season starting for something like 4 years 28Mil. Hell, thats almost as much as he makes now. (smirk)