Cousins Is The Man

[petedaddy]

 I've got no problem at all saying i am a fan of Cousins. I'm also a fan of Griffin's too. 

 

 Bottom line, i'm a fan of the team first, foremost and period. My belief in who would be the better suited person to be behind center was answered by the players themselves. I could honestly care less if Yosemite Sam was our QB, as long as he gave us the best chance.

 

Now its KC's opportunity, and i'm behind him 100%. 

 

But, lets throw a monkey wrench into this convo here;

 

Fast-forward to next year. It will essentially be KC's second year as starter, and if he starts off playing poorly, will the fanbase cry out to replace him, or let Gruden and the coaching staff work him through it. If it did happen, it would be considered his 'sophomore slump', but would the patience level drop off with him or would they stick by him.

 

This would be an interesting angle to look at; recent history of QBs on this team doesn't bode well with sticking with QBs through thick and thin, there's always been someone else stepping in. Maybe how far he gets into the post-season will have an affect on patience with him?

 

a playoff appearance will buy kirk some leeway, but that won't last long, the narrative would change to yea, we made the playoffs, but the NFC East was terrible, blah, blah, blah

[Stefanskins]

Tannehill 2014:

4045/66.4/27/12

 

Cousins 2015:

3625/69.7/22/11

 

Tannehill 2015:

3529/61.2/22/11

Oh for sure...like I said solid example and close...plus Tannehill probably has more rushing yards...I guess the reason I would still argue for Kirk to be a few slots higher is because the Dolphins have been a 8-8 ish team for a while..and Tannehill still hasn't gotten them over the hump...Kirk has taken a 4-12 totally dysfunctional team to the brink of a division title..also, we both know Tannehill isn't a one year wonder.

[MattFancy]

Oh for sure...like I said solid example and close...plus Tannehill probably has more rushing yards...I guess the reason I would still argue for Kirk to be a few slots higher is because the Dolphins have been a 8-8 ish team for a while..and Tannehill still hasn't gotten them over the hump...Kirk has taken a 4-12 totally dysfunctional team to the brink of a division title..also, we both know Tannehill isn't a one year wonder.

 

Sure, we're on the brink of a division title, but we're 7-7. For the Dolphins, it seems highly unlikely for them to ever win that division at 7-7 as long as Brady and Belichick are there.

[petedaddy]

Sure, we're on the brink of a division title, but we're 7-7. For the Dolphins, it seems highly unlikely for them to ever win that division at 7-7 as long as Brady and Belichick are there.

 

i think his point was that the dolphins were a better team (close to .500 before tannehill) while the redskins were a terrible team the last 2 seasons

[skins island connection]

sic...this board and "patience" don't hook up very often 

 

 Hey, I tried !!!

 

 But it got me thinking of the heyday when we were the team to beat year in and out, and it is strange and a direct contradiction to my talk about contiunity when Gibbs led 3 QBs to SB championships. But look at the teams today; Brady, Rodgers, Manning, Brees, and a few others, they've all been the starter on their team through thick and thin. true, they all have won the big one, but they didn't do it in their first year, and they all have had up and down years but their coaches stuck with them and the following year they bounced back and played good/great. 

 

I was lucky to see stability back in the 80's, and its not easy to be a perennial winner switching QBs every 2 years. 

[dballer]

Quarterback Rating In Opponent 20 Yards

  Team Quarterback Rating in Red Zone

1 Detroit Lions 120.6

2 Washington Redskins 117.8

3 Carolina Panthers 111.9

4 Tennessee Titans 106.2

5 New York Jets 104.3

 

 

 

This doesn't really prove any point or anything since 3 of those 5 QBs I would not consider top 10 but I am not surprised to see Cousins at number 2. He seems to have been very successful at converting red zone trips to TDs, and I have always felt like that was a barometer of a good QB since it is so difficult with the short field. 

 

I will say, Ben, Palmer, Brady and Rivers are 4 of the next 5 on that list. So maybe it does say something. And having Calvin in the red zone sure helps Stafford. And Decker and Marshall definitely helps Fitz. 

[Stefanskins]

Sure, we're on the brink of a division title, but we're 7-7. For the Dolphins, it seems highly unlikely for them to ever win that division at 7-7 as long as Brady and Belichick are there.

True...but since Tannehill was drafted who in the AFC East were/are considered good teams? Being in the AFC East, even with Brady, you have four games against perennial door mat teams...and you can't get a wild card game...2012-10 wins might have gotten you in the playoffs, 2013- 9-7, 2014 10-6...if you win those four AFC East games any any of those years and just win 50% of the other ones you probably would have made the playoffs...

[SkinsFTW]

I was in the local Kohls today.

 

Literally 100s of RG3 Jerseys on display.

 

I was looking for an 8.

 

Well, what a missed opportunity.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I was in the local Kohls today.

Literally 100s of RG3 Jerseys on display.

I was looking for an 8.

Well, what a missed opportunity.

I saw a pic from Twitter with Griff jerseys on sale for $3 at Modell's. I am a bit surprised at the lack of Cousins jerseys out there though.

[petedaddy]

I was in the local Kohls today.

 

Literally 100s of RG3 Jerseys on display.

 

I was looking for an 8.

 

Well, what a missed opportunity.

 

can always modify a grossman for cheap

[tshile]

every time i watch you guys throw stats around i'm reminded of zoony's post about how some people think the game is quantitative and outlining how that's obviously not correct.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I openly questioned whether Kirk had the arm talent to consistently win games in this league.  I think he's proven that he does.  His mental approach seems to be much better as well.  I am concerned he might be too hyped on Saturday.  I hope we can get him some easy throws early to get him settled in.  

 

I wanna go back to Art's post a few pages back where he said he hadn't totally bought in yet with Cousins.  That's kinda how I feel as well.  No matter how well he's played, I still just haven't had that moment where I believed he could be the guy to lead us to a Super Bowl.  Why?  I'm not totally sure, and like Art, I am in no way bashing Cousins.  He's played great lately, but there's something about it that rings a little hollow for me.  Maybe I have beaten dog syndrome, I don't know.  

 

To tie this in to the recent posts about other QBs, I have watched plenty of Bortles and Carr.  Both have made enough dynamic plays with their arms and legs for me to think they have what it takes to be franchise guys.  Carr's game winning drive against the Titans was incredible, with him throwing a perfect strike off his back foot under pressure to win the game.  Bortles torched the Bills in London.  One play he ran left and threw a perfect down the field strike on a flag route that was just not something you see QBs do every day.

 

I think it's possibly a lack of what I consider 'wow' plays from Cousins that still has me on the fence in someways.  Also brought up recently here, are Joe Montana and Tom Brady.  I don't consider either to be overly dynamic QBs, but their 'wow' plays came/come from their consistent ability to diagnose defenses and to execute their plays with uncanny precision.  Both of those guys are surgeons.

 

I'm hoping that Cousins can become a surgeon.  He certainly looked like one on Sunday.  For the good of this team, lets hope it continues.

[wit33]

The Bills game was first time feeling Cousins was playing at top tier level. In other games it seemed he was managing it and taking what was given (not a slight, as it seems the plan as an organization was to bring him along slowly). Let's hope he continues to build off this.

You can use stats to a degree, but if you're one who watches all the games you must realize Cousins has not been a top tier QB, but more to the point, he wasn't being asked to by the organization.

Or top ten...

[SkinsFTW]

The Bills game was first time feeling Cousins was playing at top tier level. In other games it seemed he was managing it and taking what was given (not a slight, as it seems the plan as an organization was to bring him along slowly). Let's hope he continues to build off this.

You can use stats to a degree, but if you're one who watches all the games you must realize Cousins has not been a top tier QB, but more to the point, he wasn't being asked to by the organization.

Or top ten...

 

Did you watch the Jags and Eagles games in 2014? He's been that way all along but its pretty obvious that when they brought him back this year they scaled down what he was expected to do, big time. It seems to have worked too, he's not dishing out 2-3 ints a game anymore.

[Cliffmark1]

You can use stats to a degree, but if you're one who watches all the games you must realize Cousins has not been a top tier QB

Or top ten...

we have drafted so many qbs, this is the first one who has taken the normal path towards elite qb.

literally we are watching for the first time in decades redskins have a young qb who is on the elite path. the stats just help you understand the expected growth of qbs.

imo we have two options: support and sign him or watch him become the next brees under a team that will giddily fleece/trade us for kc. this is like watching young cooley times 100. other teams want kirk, based on the past they think snyder is stupid enough to go after star power vs substance and will gladly help him.

[TheGreek1973]

Man i just had a horrid thought.  What if Cousins takes into the playoffs we lose the first game and Dany gets it in his head that he will not pay alot.  The there are several teams out there wanting Cousins for big dollars and Dany say no way because his man crush still thinks RGIII can play on this team.

 

These thoughts scare the hell out of me.

[Stefanskins]

I believe he should be in consideration as a Top 10 QB...if we win out..and he throws for 600 more yards...4 TDs  and just one pick would you consider that he may be a Top 10 QB?...What if we beat the Seahawks in the WC game and he throws 300 yards and 2 TDs..and rushes for one? Would you think that he is possibly a Top 10 QB?...What if we go to Arizona and beat them after that?..What if we then go and beat the Panthers in the NFC Championship? Would that be enough?...I know I'm coming across condescending but I really just want to know what it would take...would it take any of these extremes?...absurd??..I for one think its a new ball game in the paloffs and we have all seen teams get hot at just the right time and string a few wins together in the playoffs...9-7 Giants for one..

[Cliffmark1]

I believe he should be in consideration as a Top 10 QB...if we win out..and he trows for 600 more yards...4 TDs and just one pick would you consider that he may be a Top 10 QB?...What if we beat the Seahawks in the WC game and he trows 300 yards and 2 TDs..and rushes for one? Would you think that he is possibly a Top 10 QB?...What if we go to Arizona and beat them after that?..What if we then go and beat the Panthers in the NFC Championship? Would that be enough?...I know I'm coming across condescending but I really just want to know what it would take...would it take any of these extremes?...absurd??..I for one think its a new ball game in the paloffs and we have all seen teams get hot at just the right time and string a few wins together in the playoffs...9-7 Giants for one..

there is this narrative that only places with qb vacancy will want kc. the way he has been playing many teams will grade him in the top ten. we may have a lot more competitors for kc than some people want to imagine.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

The whole point is that saying he "surprised everyone" is an inaccurate statement.  He's playing, as I said, as a top 18ish to top 10ish QB which is essentially where the baseline starts in today's NFL of QBs that are reasonable #1s.  The "surprising everyone" thing would have far more validity if Kirk had us at 10 wins and was an MVP candidate or something.  He's not playing THAT well where "surprising everyone" is truly legitimate.  

 

To me the operative point about any young or relatively new starter is ups and downs are common -- no big revelation there.   But IMO you have to play out the string, see how it goes before putting in the verdict.  Actually it was the same argument that many of the pro-QB predecessor vigorously made in another thread and that includes myself.  

 

Don't see why the rules would be any different for Kirk.  IMO few NFL types, ex Qbs, etc agree that you can judge a QB on just a handful of starts.  You need a decent sample.  So as for who guessed it right or wrong before the season, IMO it was just guessing -- guessing with some thought behind it of course but scout after scout say that judging the future of a QB is one of the hardest things to do in sports.  Grant Paulsen said today that a source close to Scot told him Scot wasn't sure about Kirk before the season and needed to see it play out.  And, I was relatively positive about Kirk before the season but I was just guessing, too.  But yeah I do agree some were hardcore about Kirk as far back as last year especially post Eagles game, I recall it.    

 

Unless people here are angling for a FO job -- don't even see why it matters who got it right or wrong -- its just IMO about here we are today.  And not to jinx Kirk but I think we are in a good place QB wise. 

 

Hate to quote Jason Reid of all people on this point but what the heck, I just saw it and IMO its relevant.

 

1. Jason Reid ‏@JReidESPN  Dec 21

   He thinks Cousins is gonna completely blow up over next two seasons. And before anyone asks: Former assistant isn't named Shanahan.

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   Jason Reid ‏@JReidESPN  Dec 21

   A former Washington assistant called me yesterday during game. He said scary thing is they wasted all those first-team reps on others.

 

 

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   Jason Reid ‏@JReidESPN  Dec 21

   I think back to something Gruden told me early on about the differences between the QBs on the roster: All Cousins needs is time. Nailed it.

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[ThomasRoane]

The Dallas game on Monday night overwhelmed Kirk, people mentioned that he played really scared and tight esp. in the first half. In fact, that whole game was called as if the team were terrified. So, terribly conservative.

 

Don't just say "people mentioned."  Are YOU saying Kirk played scared?  He didn't look scared to me.  He looked like he was playing within the gameplan.  Have you looked at what the dallass defense has done vs some very good QB's this year?  As much as I hate to admit it they're really good.  No QB has thrown for more than 2 TD's.  Only Brees topped 300 and that was helped with overtime. 

 

I'm not even going to kill the team for a conservative game plan.  They tried to start off throwing and it was a disaster!  Leribus was so confused he looked like a turnstile!  Two quick sacks and then they realized that the O-line would have trouble picking up the stunts.  So, they tried to mash the cowpies with the running game but they just don't have the Tight Ends to get it done.

 

To say Kirk looked scared is a gross exaggeration though.  How scared did he look to you when, after getting the snot knocked him most of the game, he stood tall in the pocket and threw a ball so perfect that D-Jax didn't have to break stride or move his hands with time winding down and the game on the line? 

 

You know?  It's okay to say the other guys are pretty good. 

 

Here is an update on QB's (including Wilson, Rodgers, Eli, Bradford, Brady, and Newton) vs the cowpies defense and how well they have played on pass defense.

[Stefanskins]

there is this narrative that only places with qb vacancy will want kc. the way he has been playing many teams will grade him in the top ten.

Honestly, and again I'm trying my best to not be a Homer, I can't see how any objective observer (besides our fellow PTSD Redskins Brothers...that I entirely understand) could watch his progression and not see this kid is going to be lights out..he has that ethereal "It" in spades..Maybe TheGreek is right and it might take a first round playoff win to convince Snyder...

[Cliffmark1]

i dont think sm is sold on him and i doubt snyder is either. snyder likes stars not homegrown talent, see ryan clark, and sm doesnt pick good qbs.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Honestly, and again I'm trying my best to not be a Homer, I can't see how any objective observer (besides our fellow PTSD Redskins Brothers...that I entirely understand) could watch his progression and not see this kid is going to be lights out..he has that ethereal "It" in spades..Maybe TheGreek is right and it might take a first round playoff win to convince Snyder...

 

I think that's true, but we don't know how other GMs rate him independent of Gruden's offense. For us, it doesn't matter how good he could be in another offense, but for every other team it's a consideration. 

[JMUSkins]

umm no we didn't. Starting realize he is not our future, just a little better version of Rex Grossmen

Still feel that way?

[Hazlett]

Just thought I would post this for comparison. Griffin 2012 and Cousins now.

 

Griffin (2012 SEASON)

Completion % - 65.6

QB Rating -102.4

Sacks – 30

Passes over 40 yards – 6

Passes over 20 yards -47

Total passing yards -3,200

Passing Attempts -258-393

Passing TDs – 20

INTs - 5

Rushing TDs – 7

 

NFC East Champions 10-6

 

Cousins (2015 Season 2 GAMES LEFT)

Completion % - 69.7

QB Rating -97.2

Sacks – 24

Passes over 40 yards – 7

Passes over 20 yards -41

Total passing yards -3,625

Passing Attempts -336-482

Passing TDs – 22

INTs - 11

Rushing TDs – 5

 

NFC East Division leader 7-7

 

After posting the numbers, Cousins is pretty close to doing as good or better than RG3 did that 2012 run, also a note, this season we have a terrible running game. Just food for thought.