dballer Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 i dont think sm is sold on him and i doubt snyder is either. snyder likes stars not homegrown talent, see ryan clark, and sm doesnt pick good qbs. See Trent Williams, Ryan Kerrigan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 i dont think sm is sold on him and i doubt snyder is either. snyder likes stars not homegrown talent, see ryan clark, and sm doesnt pick good qbs. This is not your grandfathers oldsmobile cliff. Catch up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 i dont think sm is sold on him and i doubt snyder is either. snyder likes stars not homegrown talent, see ryan clark, and sm doesnt pick good qbs. What exactly makes you say SM and Dan for that matter are not sold on Cousins? Something in print? From a radio show/ Second hand conversations? Anything specific? I am honestly curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffmark1 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 See Trent Williams, Ryan Kerrigan... I'm not sure i follow yo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasRoane Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I'm just not ready to crown a guy as a top 10 QB after 1 good season. I'm not so sure he's even a top 10 QB this season. Yet that is exactly what you're doing in the case of Bortles and Carr. And they both had the benefit of more games last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Just thought I would post this for comparison. Griffin 2012 and Cousins now. Griffin (2012 SEASON) Completion % - 65.6 QB Rating -102.4 Sacks – 30 Passes over 40 yards – 6 Passes over 20 yards -47 Total passing yards -3,200 Passing Attempts -258-393 Passing TDs – 20 INTs - 5 Rushing TDs – 7 NFC East Champions 10-6 Cousins (2015 Season 2 GAMES LEFT) Completion % - 69.7 QB Rating -97.2 Sacks – 24 Passes over 40 yards – 7 Passes over 20 yards -41 Total passing yards -3,625 Passing Attempts -336-482 Passing TDs – 22 INTs - 11 Rushing TDs – 5 NFC East Division leader 7-7 After posting the numbers, Cousins is pretty close to doing as good or better than RG3 did that 2012 run, also a note, this season we have a terrible running game. Just food for thought. Thanks for posting...it's an interesting comparison. Though I've favored Cousins over Griffin for a while, there are a couple things that you have to also factor in...both related to the ground game. First of all, Griffin added 800+ yards of total offense on the ground, so his lower passing yards are excusable there. Secondly, the running game was better at least in part due to Griffin's running threat. So, both of those items need to be added to Griffin's overall grade for 2012. I don't think this year will eclipse that year when all is said and done from an overall QB output perspective. That offense was very difficult to defend as defenses had to essentially play a man down without having practiced it. However, in the longer-term outlook seeing this type of QB performance in a traditional NFL offense is much more encouraging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasRoane Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Kirk said "You like that." The crowd chanted, "You like that." But as a fan base, we have not entirely owned that WE like it. We do, obviously, but we didn't chant WE like that. The Sports Bog wrote that "You like that" can not end with a question mark, as Kirk said it as a statement. ... If we have another home game and the chant is "We like that!" we'll be answering Kirk's question and this team and town will be his. Admittedly my hesitation has nothing to do with the numbers and performance as he's been, statistically, quite good. I just don't feel it with him. I don't feel anyone we play worries much about him yet. I liked the Bills game, but can't say as any other game was all that remarkable. Steady, sure. Fine, yes. Great moments, absolutely. But, much like watching Ryan Fitzpatrick play. Well, Dan Snyder and fans like you better figure it out pretty quick. Or start thinking of the prospect of starting this painful process of finding a QB all over again. If I were Kirk's father? After seeing little from Dan to show (publicly) that he is on board with #8 and seeing all the vile garbage that is spewed on social media I'd counsel Kirk to think very hard about signing any deal with the Redskins. From what he told 106.7 I think he's got the right mindset. “It’s pretty fickle from week to week. Bottom line, like anybody else in any line of work, in any job you have, you want to be where you’re wanted, and I’m no different. So, that’s the bottom line. I want to be where I’m wanted, and we’ll find out where I’m wanted in a few months. But we have a job to do before that, and that’s where my focus is, is on right here and right now. And if we get the job done.” So figure it out soon or you'll be like George from Seinfeld always looking for that perfect girl that doesn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 ^I'd put the rushing TDs in those stats. Kirk is already at 27 total TDs for the year. I keep having to remind myself non-Redskins fans of this little detail. If Cam can get credit for running it in all the time, so should Kirk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dballer Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I'm not sure i follow yo Two homegrown stars Snyder just opened the check book for. I don't think Snyder is going to do anything stupid anymore. He wants a winning product, and I am sure he is ecstatic with the way this year has gone. And from what we have seen of SM I am not sure he has to be sold on a QB. He is more about filling out the roster with as much talent as possible, regardless of position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 i dont think sm is sold on him and i doubt snyder is either. snyder likes stars not homegrown talent, see ryan clark, and sm doesnt pick good qbs. yeah poor Scot McCloughan blew it on Russell Wilson, the dude is terrible. And yeah that was a Scot recommendation, read an article on it. As for Scot being sold or not sold on Kirk, I think we are about to find out in the off season. Maybe the local and national NFL reporters (like Mike Jones, JLC) who have said the Redskins are keen on keeping Kirk and working out a contract are all wrong. Will see soon. I think the idea that Kirk's ceiling is low as some purport is in play until he breaks loose. But IMO he's shown more than a few flashes that he's an above average QB. 8th ranked QB in terms of QB ratings. And football outsiders have him at #11 http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/q For me what is most encouraging is D. Jackson has indeed made a difference. Earlier this season, there was a debate here about whether Kirk was just a dink and dunk guy and some (me included) hit back with lets see what happens with D. Jax. In the games with D. Jax, Kirk has been 2nd in the league (ironically behind R. Wilson) in YPA. So he's clearly not just a dink and dunk guy. And this is on a team with one of the worst YPA running games in the NFL. The Dolphins for example get a yard more per carry on average than the Redskins which is staggering -- and with that Tannehill who to many was an ascending QB before this season and many projected as a guy who would leap into being a top tier QB -- is the 29th ranked QB by Football Outsiders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Have we ever known Dan Snyder say "no I will not pay...." If anything, it's a "pretty shiny thing" syndrome. He will pay what ever it takes and then some. Going off what both Joe Gibbs and Mike Shannahan said, they would decide who they want and Dan would help them get them by helping with negotiations. I am not sure why this narrative keeps coming up when there is no data at all to suggest that Dan would balk at paying whatever money SM and Jay want him to pay to keep Cousins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qdeathstar Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Man i just had a horrid thought. What if Cousins takes into the playoffs we lose the first game and Dany gets it in his head that he will not pay alot. The there are several teams out there wanting Cousins for big dollars and Dany say no way because his man crush still thinks RGIII can play on this team. These thoughts scare the hell out of me. The ownership has been making consistent smart moves over the past couple years.... Hopefully we can find a away to keep DJax with cousins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 First of all, Griffin added 800+ yards of total offense on the ground, so his lower passing yards are excusable there. Secondly, the running game was better at least in part due to Griffin's running threat. So, both of those items need to be added to Griffin's overall grade for 2012. Agreed. You also have to take into account that the reason RG3's passing game was so good was because our running game, specifically his part of the running game, was so good. Which would be great for him if it was repeatable, but it isn't. Not just because of his injury, but because the league has figured it out. In 2013 and 2014 we saw what RG3 was without Kyle Shanahan's gimmick offense. Meanwhile, Kirk 2015 is the real Kirk. Everything he's doing now, he should be able to do next year. Maybe he improves further more, maybe he regresses, but nothing about what we are seeing now is artificial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Edit In the games with D. Jax, Kirk has been 2nd in the league (ironically behind R. Wilson) in YPA. So he's clearly not just a dink and dunk guy. And this is on a team with one of the worst YPA running games in the NFL. Edit You make several good points, but this is one I want to just add a little extra: While he is 2nd with DJax, he is 11th overall with or without DJax at 7.5 yds/att. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffmark1 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 What exactly makes you say SM and Dan for that matter are not sold on Cousins? Something in print? From a radio show/ Second hand conversations? Anything specific? I am honestly curious.All i have heard is it has been reported that kirk balls out at practice and makes a point to "you like that"/"are you not entertained" to SM. I truly hope snyder has turned a corner. lavars words ring in my ear though, snyder wants to sell jeseys. lets hope lavar is wrong and not snyder. i dont think anyone is going out and saying sm strength is qb evaluation, it is his weakness he is much better at building out the rest of the team. The ownership has been making consistent smart moves over the past couple years.... Hopefully we can find a away to keep DJax with cousins... ok when did the corner turn? shanny, zorn, bruce or sm?ive seen a dynasty become a doormat because of wholesale firings, wrongful firings and just basically terrible management so i will wait and see about snyder ownership. i have no idea why the other owners haven't asked him to step down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 You make several good points, but this is one I want to just add a little extra: While he is 2nd with DJax, he is 11th overall with or without DJax at 7.5 yds/att. Good point. He's shown he can move the ball down the field. Kirk's been jumping over hurdles all season. So far so good. He's has another one coming up this Saturday. Personally I think his ceiling is beyond a mere game manager. He has decent arm strength, throws a good deep ball. He has a fast release. And from what I've read, he's a game film workaholic. I recall during his rookie year, Grant Paulsen saying that whenever he ran into Kirk in the locker room, he was almost always staring at his IPOD which had the playbook. I liked the story where Kirk can't go to sleep after the game until he reviews game tape, etc. I like his chances to be an above average QB in the league and arguably he already is at least for the moment, hopefully he keeps at it but IMO it looks promising. I am not ready to throw a parade yet but love the trajectory so far of his play this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffmark1 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Who has the most upside of any young QB? kirk you like that cousins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 All i have heard is it has been reported that kirk balls out at practice and makes a point to "you like that"/"are you not entertained" to SM. I truly hope snyder has turned a corner. lavars words ring in my ear though, snyder wants to sell jeseys. lets hope lavar is wrong and not snyder. i dont think anyone is going out and saying sm strength is qb evaluation, it is his weakness he is much better at building out the rest of the team. ok when did the corner turn? shanny, zorn, bruce or sm? The "You like that" was directed at Tarik El Bashir directly. Not SM. If you are saying he is going out of his way to do that at practice to SM, please provide proof. I have heard so much BS associated with how this team operates, sorry if I want real data. For example all we heard was Robert and Kirk could not be in the same room. Then SI reports (after doing an actual story), they go to bible study together with Colt McCoy every week. Kirk was heard to be sharing very private information with Robert and Colt and them talking about things that are more important than football. As for Snyder, Lavar Arrington is a bitter POS. He has been the source of much BS about this team. So it comes down to Joe Gibbs or Lavar Arrington. Are you really saying you believe Lavar over Joe? SM as a QB evaluator - he was responsible for RW in Seattle. If you are referring to passing on Rogers, so did quite a few other GMs. Not sure there is even enough data to form a real correlation. I just don't think we know. I will stop here, not because of you (good conversation as far as I can see) but we have been warned by the mods once about turning this into another Dan thread and derailing the cousins conversation. I am more than willing to pick this up elsewhere. They work too hard to keep this place as civil as it is (esp compared to many other sites) yes, unabashed sucking up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefanskins Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 First, SM is a talented evaluator...there is no way he doesn't appreciate what he is seeing in Cus.. Second, I know I can come across as asinine to borderline deranged but EVERYONE here knows that if someone had told us before this season started 1) that we would wrap up a NFCE Division Championship and playoff birth before the last game (not done since 1991) or even that we would still be in the hunt in December, much less to the very last game. 2)That our Defense would have a rookie wr starting cb, both of our ILB would be "benched", Hall our starting FS and no team would have a 300 yard passing game against us (still true?) 3) our Oline starting four inexperienced men 4) we would be one of the most injured teams in the league and 5) that Kirk Cousins not only started all 16 games but would break a number of historic Redskins' records (btw..he has set the record for highest completion percentage in home games for a season...I'll say again The NFL Record!)...wouldn't we have thought that my hypothetical prognosticator was cuckoo beyond reason... but here we are.. So I guess what I'm saying is none of us really knows what the future holds so let's all just enjoy this unbelievable ride...I know I have and its been that much richer of an experience riding this crazy train with all of you....HTTR!! /thought this was a cool read - http://es.redskins.com/topic/393262-this-year-feels-differentis-it-for-real-or-pretend/page-4 //this one too - http://es.redskins.com/topic/394715-the-things-that-keep-happening-thread/page-2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan35yrs. Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I don't know if any of you have seen this but Kirk Cousins is truely an amazing QB. I mean a170.0 passer rating at home the highest ever completion percentage in the NFL with 74.7 average. Then the list of other accomplishments. Gotta see and here CP and Cooley talk about Kirk. http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/article-1/Bridgestone-Performance-Player-Of-The-Week-Kirk-Cousins/ba8f40ae-f19d-4237-ac6a-ef6ca85d887f Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Agreed. You also have to take into account that the reason RG3's passing game was so good was because our running game, specifically his part of the running game, was so good. Which would be great for him if it was repeatable, but it isn't. Not just because of his injury, but because the league has figured it out. In 2013 and 2014 we saw what RG3 was without Kyle Shanahan's gimmick offense. Meanwhile, Kirk 2015 is the real Kirk. Everything he's doing now, he should be able to do next year. Maybe he improves further more, maybe he regresses, but nothing about what we are seeing now is artificial. Observing that I said the same thing, this time of year, in 2012. That if it were a gimmick, the NFL would have figured it out, by Week 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefanskins Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I don't know if any of you have seen this but Kirk Cousins is truely an amazing QB. I mean a170.0 passer rating at home the highest ever completion percentage in the NFL with 74.7 average. Then the list of other accomplishments. Gotta see and here CP and Cooley talk about Kirk. http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/article-1/Bridgestone-Performance-Player-Of-The-Week-Kirk-Cousins/ba8f40ae-f19d-4237-ac6a-ef6ca85d887f passer rating of 170? I thought 150 something was a perfect score. How could he be better than perfect? /it was a misprint in the article...PR is 117... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Observing that I said the same thing, this time of year, in 2012. That if it were a gimmick, the NFL would have figured it out, by Week 10. Well we didn't really start running the RO as heavy as we ended up until week 11. But people had the formula pretty early on. Let's all kill Robert every time we get a chance because eventually he isn't getting up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I don't know if any of you have seen this but Kirk Cousins is truely an amazing QB. I mean a170.0 passer rating at home the highest ever completion percentage in the NFL with 74.7 average. Then the list of other accomplishments. Gotta see and here CP and Cooley talk about Kirk. http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/article-1/Bridgestone-Performance-Player-Of-The-Week-Kirk-Cousins/ba8f40ae-f19d-4237-ac6a-ef6ca85d887f Typo aside, good read and nice video from CP and Cooley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted December 22, 2015 Author Share Posted December 22, 2015 The guy who started this thread for one lol ... I'll post my "data" in a bit, have to have an online meeting right now. Yes, I've been 100% behind Cousins since the Cleveland game in 2012. I loved him in the preseason game that year against the Bears but I needed to see it in a regular game and then he delivered a stunning performance on the road against Cleveland that year, performing much like we've seen him play this year it cemented my view he was going to be the guy in the end and said so to my friends who laughed at me in 2012. I disagree with you assessment of the way he finished in 2013. He played VERY well against Atlanta that year and decently against the Cowboys also but romoSUCKS played better. He and the rest of the team played poorly against the Giants that year but overall I think Shanny made his point Griffin was the short pole in the tent not Kyle's offense. I started the retired "I Want Cousins To Start 16 Games" thread this year and followed it up with starting this thread, and yes I said I'd seen enough earlier in the year as well because I saw that Kirk Cousins is a high quality franchise QB in the making and the best the Skins have had in at least a generation. I never believed in Griffin because I've watched the NFL for over 50 years and running QBs always end up getting pummeled. It was sad the way it ended in 2012 but highly predictable, I told my friends long before the end of the year that Griffin was fools gold and they laughed at me. Kirk is the MVP on the Skins now and in my far from humble opinion I am the ES poster of the year, no let me correct that, the poster of the decade.....:-) Da You Like THAT???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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