Saints vs. Redskins Post Game Assessments

[quettefan]

DeAngelo Hall being out of position on the Saints' last two regular time possessions, and Gruden's overly conservative offensive play-calling during the last 5 minutes cost us the win

[armstrong001]

15 hours ago, Burgold said:

 First, by the questionable intentional grounding and then by not snapping the ball with the clock running for 10 seconds when there's only eighteen lefts and then all the other screwups like costing themselves a chance at a long field goal at the end of the half and then surrendering a field goal to the Saints.

 

This was one thing I didn't get.  The play before the intentional grounding, the receiver ran out of bounds, stopping the clock.  If the intentional grounding stops the clock, with a 10 second runoff, why did the clock start up again too?  I thought the clock didn't start until the snap...

 

[RandyHolt]

Did Allen panic press his review buzzer when the league called him about the unintentional intentional grounding? 

 

The ice pack ain't helping the grapefruits this morning.

[grego]

16 minutes ago, armstrong001 said:

This was one thing I didn't get.  The play before the intentional grounding, the receiver ran out of bounds, stopping the clock.  If the intentional grounding stops the clock, with a 10 second runoff, why did the clock start up again too?  I thought the clock didn't start until the snap...

 

 

because its treated as if it were a sack, because if youre grounding the ball, its because youre avoiding a sack, so as soon as the ball is spotted, clock runs.

[DJHJR86]

Remember how the Saints were 7-9 the past 3 seasons, largely due to their horrific defense?  Those Brees/Cousins comparisons seem to not be so premature after all.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Remember how the Saints were 7-9 the past 3 seasons, largely due to their horrific defense?  Those Brees/Cousins comparisons seem to not be so premature after all.  

However I'm not sure if Kirk will ever have the opportunity to score 15 unanswered as easily as Brees did yesterday.  Obviously Brees is a beast but my god man, we didn't even make him do Brees type stuff.  Their backup probably could have done the same thing.  I'm not sure why I did it but I relived the last two NO drives this morning and it was literally the worst combined defensive efforts I can recall in my life as a pro football fan.

[Wildbunny]

46 minutes ago, TheGreek1973 said:

From what I know that is not how the rule goes, the rule goes if you throw the ball when you are about to be sacked to a space without a receiver from the pocket then it is intentional grounding.  And that is exactly as it should be because lets face it if its like you say it is then its a very stupid rule when a QB can take the ball from the snap and ground it.  What is the freaking divergence.  Cousins was not remotely under duress or about to get sacked.  Terrible call from refs that had terrible calls or better said non calls on us.

To add onto this, @KDawg, if all it takes was to throw the ball away from any receiver to get an IG penalty, then merely every spike play to stop the clock should then be an IG penalty.

 

 

15 minutes ago, grego said:

 

because its treated as if it were a sack, because if youre grounding the ball, its because youre avoiding a sack, so as soon as the ball is spotted, clock runs.

If I got the rule correct, the 10 seconds runoff is here to prevent teams from committing penalties to stop the clock.

Think it was Ravens, or 49ers, dunno remember, that used to do this kind of thing some time ago.

So, if the clock his running in the last 2 minutes, and there's a penalty, then there is a 10 seconds run off to make up for this.

 

Except here, the clock was already stopped. So there cannot be a 10 seconds run off, and the clock shouldn't start prior to the snap.

 

Watch the Seattle games back. Refs are waiting for the Seahawks to get ready and clock starts right with the snap. Didn't happened yesterday.

[Darrell Green Fan]

23 minutes ago, grego said:

 

because its treated as if it were a sack, because if youre grounding the ball, its because youre avoiding a sack, so as soon as the ball is spotted, clock runs.

 

But apparently when replay showed Russell Wilson was sacked they don't run off 10 seconds. Sounds fair.

 

Speaking of challenges was Gruden's asinine challenge every discussed?  WTF was that?  Cost a timeout they sure could have used. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Speaking of challenges was Gruden's asinine challenge every discussed?  WTF was that?  Cost a timeout they sure could have used. 

I'm not sure but I get the impression that was used to give his defense a blow.  A challenge gives you a longer period of time than a timeout.  That's the only thing I could think of.  If someone upstairs told him to throw that flag for any other reason, hopefully they were left in New Orleans.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

Positives.  The offensive is looking better but could be because the saints defense blows.  Dotson gaining more reps and looking better.  Grant playing well.

Perrine starting to get a little better

The fill in offensive line is improving (Center)

Cousins stands in the pocket and delivers pinpoint passes for a touch even.  Runs/scrambles for big first downs.  That hit to his head should have ejected that player.

 

Negative:

The defense was awful.  At this point it's hard to say if it is coaching or talent because against some teams they look great and against others they flop.  I guess that has to be coaching.  Outside of that I can't think of anything else that someone hasn't already said.  

[RandyHolt]

I bet we went cover 2/3 prevent on those last 2 drives.  How hard is it for even a noob WR to run where the zone defenders aren't?   I hate (unless it works) going man all day, and then in crunch time switch to zone, and lose.  Odds may say late zone cough prevent works, but just think it is too easy for accurate QBs to suddenly come to life.  Prevent is good for milking the clock, and preventing a quick score, but that is about it. In doing so, you sacrifice pressure on the QB.  Which is an understated part of the game IMO. 

 

I still contend a quick score is nothing to fear, for then our offense gets the ball back with more time. It was on display yet again yesterday, we just choked away the possession.

[rebornempowered]

1 hour ago, grego said:

 

because its treated as if it were a sack, because if youre grounding the ball, its because youre avoiding a sack, so as soon as the ball is spotted, clock runs.

 

What confused me was the 10 yard penalty.  Shouldn't it be a spot foul if it's to be treated as a sack?

 

I'll look up the rule at some point but I was so confused during the game.

 

Edit:

I looked it up.  In my opinion, this is stupid and not just because the Redskins lost because of it.  The ten yard requirement makes no sense. 

 

Intentional Grounding of Forward Pass

1. Intentional grounding of a forward pass is a foul: loss of down and 10 yards from previous spot if passer is in the field of play or loss of down at the spot of the foul if it occurs more than 10 yards behind the line or safety if passer is in his own end zone when ball is released.
2. Intentional grounding will be called when a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage due to pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion.
3. Intentional grounding will not be called when a passer, while out of the pocket and facing an imminent loss of yardage, throws a pass that lands at or beyond the line of scrimmage, even if no offensive player(s) have a realistic chance to catch the ball (including if the ball lands out of bounds over the sideline or end line).

 

 

[KDawg]

Guys, i didn’t mention the under duress part because i thought it was implied

[RVAskins]

2 hours ago, quettefan said:

DeAngelo Hall being out of position on the Saints' last two regular time possessions, and Gruden's overly conservative offensive play-calling during the last 5 minutes cost us the win

I think Hall had a horrible game. He seemed clueless out there and out of position quite often.

 

[NoCalMike]

I think when it comes to the QB position more than any other is it doesn't matter how good or bad a game the QB has had up to the "pivotal" moment(s) in a game.  They could have had 300+ 3 TDs or 0 TDs 180 yards 2 INTs......if the game is close and can be won on the final drive, that is ultimately how a QB is judged. Fair or Unfair. 

 

The Saints game is a good example. I think Kirk overall had one of the best games of his career all things considered. Some of the dimes he dropped right into the hands of streaking WRs? Beautiful.  I also felt he attacked way more than he usually does. He was looking downfield early & often. The offense got conservative later in the game but I think that was more scheme than anything Kirk did.

 

The defense also played well for 3.5 quarters. Before that total meltdown, they had kept the Saints to 16 points. It was 31-16. Hard to believe.  Now look, the defense was supposed to be a problem area going into the season. It was expected. We got a little spoiled early in the season when they showed signs of huge improvement, and overall I feel they have improved in a lot of ways. Injuries and the NFL having more film to attack weak spots has led to the defense reverting backwards some. Again, it's to be expected, no? It sucks, but at this point that is the DNA of our team. The make up of this team is a mediocre defense that sometimes plays over their head and out of their minds for a couple quarters and an offense that can be explosive but also tends to go in their own shell for a quarter or so.

 

With all that said, what troubles me is that up 31-16, all the offense really needed to do was manage a FG and the game is 100% iced.  The valiant Brees comeback doesn't matter. Hell, even one more 1st down and the game is essentially over.  The offense really has to recognize that it is on them to out and put these games away.  This is the Saints, one of the best offenses in the NFL. No lead is ever safe. You are the strength of the team, put this game out of reach.

[TheGreek1973]

42 minutes ago, rebornempowered said:

 

What confused me was the 10 yard penalty.  Shouldn't it be a spot foul if it's to be treated as a sack?

 

I'll look up the rule at some point but I was so confused during the game.

 

Edit:

I looked it up.  In my opinion, this is stupid and not just because the Redskins lost because of it.  The ten yard requirement makes no sense. 

 

Intentional Grounding of Forward Pass

1. Intentional grounding of a forward pass is a foul: loss of down and 10 yards from previous spot if passer is in the field of play or loss of down at the spot of the foul if it occurs more than 10 yards behind the line or safety if passer is in his own end zone when ball is released.
2. Intentional grounding will be called when a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage due to pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion.
3. Intentional grounding will not be called when a passer, while out of the pocket and facing an imminent loss of yardage, throws a pass that lands at or beyond the line of scrimmage, even if no offensive player(s) have a realistic chance to catch the ball (including if the ball lands out of bounds over the sideline or end line).

 

 

And this is precisely my point.  This was a major botch job by the officials.  Basically denied us a chance to win the game.

[grego]

1 hour ago, Thirtyfive2seven said:

Positives.  The offensive is looking better but could be because the saints defense blows. 

 

 

 

there was a stat displayed during the game yesterday. it was something like the saints D had given up an average of 14 points per game and allowed 140 or 150 yards passing over the past 6 games. i think part of it is that they havent played as many really good offensive teams over that span, but they are much better on D than they were last year. 

 

heres a blurb from an SI article from 2 weeks ago- But look at New Orleans’ current six-game winning streak: The defense is allowing 12.6 points and 264.7 yards an outing. The film has looked every bit as good as the numbers.

[Spaceman Spiff]

This game was so bad, it killed Charles Manson. 

[HapHaszard]

Mike Jones‏Verified account @ByMikeJones

This won't really make you feel better, #Redskins fans. But two league sources say the League contacted Bruce Allen to tell him that Cousins intentional grounding call was incorrect and shouldn't have been a penalty.

[JKS1414]

The game yesterday was difficult to watch. Cousins and the offense played well enough to win. The defense played well for 3 quarters. This loss has to pinned on 3 things: 1) Coaching-The 3rd and 1 call was predictable and a horrible call 2) The defense coordinator- How many times does it have to happen before coaches realize that the prevent defense only prevents you from winning the game and 3) the inability of the Skins to have the "killer" instinct needed to put games away.  In my opinion, Gruden is becoming very predictable as a play caller. How awesome would it have been to see QB PA fake with a roll out with a option to throw or run on that 3rd and 1 call?

[petey hodge]

I liked what I saw from Bree but how many times was Josh Norman thrown at?  

[Wildbunny]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Guys, i didn’t mention the under duress part because i thought it was implied

Then you could have had an argument when we played Polumbus, Monty, Licht, Ribs as our OL and say that .5 second was enough to get the QB under pressure back then.

 

But with Trent, NSheke, Roulier, Scherff and Moses?

 

No way!

[CTskin]

7 hours ago, Alexa said:

I'm starting to think that Gruden may have to go. How many more years are we going to have a crappy defense? It's basically been a problem now for all 4 of his years here. 

 

FYI- Gruden is the headcoach and OC, not the defensive coach. He's with the offense in practice. Not with the defense, not with  the special teams... If you think that a head coach with essentially only an offensive background is the one teaching and coaching defense then you're sorely mistaken. 

[Warhead36]

3 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

However I'm not sure if Kirk will ever have the opportunity to score 15 unanswered as easily as Brees did yesterday.  Obviously Brees is a beast but my god man, we didn't even make him do Brees type stuff.  Their backup probably could have done the same thing.  I'm not sure why I did it but I relived the last two NO drives this morning and it was literally the worst combined defensive efforts I can recall in my life as a pro football fan.

Maybe not 15 points, but last year in back to back weeks Cousins rallied us from 10 point deficits in the 4th quarter in the Lions and Bengals game. Lions game we blew due to the D and Bengal game due to the K.

 

Lest not forget that in three of our four wins this year, Cousins has had to score the go ahead TD in the 4th quarter when we were behind or tied.

[CTskin]

5 hours ago, Burgold said:

Why would the clock be running in any case? Clocks never run after an incomplete pass.

 

In the realm of things that won't happen, but should. They should have Rose line up a field goal and kick it. If he makes it then the Redskins are awarded the win. If not, the Saints keep their win.

Because the result of the penalty is supposed to act as if it were a sack. Loss of down, 10 yards, and clock keeps running.