Saints vs. Redskins Post Game Assessments

[RandyHolt]

I hate how IGs are now called by committee and long after the play. Usually ones first reaction is the correct one and refs second guess themselves given enough time.  What the hell do they need time to think about. I would have liked to have seen Kirk first and then Jay heavily lobbying their case in that critical moment right after the play, and maybe they did for all I know. 

 

I am not sure I like Kirk lowering his head and taking hits to get that extra yard. We are toast without him.

 

When Doctson vanished, I figured he may have gotten nicked up. I also thought Mo Harris would have a huge game. It's hard to find fault with the pass play calling since we did well but its interesting to discuss nonetheless.

 

I too thought Jay hastily called that timeout when Spike Lee was a candidate.  And don't like that he has to juggle play calling and timeouts... not sure both are best for him.  Kamara bobbling his TD was another kick in the nuts, us fans seeing the ball flying through the air..... incomplete or INT... nope. TD.  Just our ****ing luck.

[CjSuAvE22]

1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I'm kind of in your camp. It helped that I realized the season ended weeks ago so a loss like this, as frustrating as it was, did not destroy me.  I see a team that lost it's best offensive play maker to go along with everything else, a team that has a guy's heel on the goal line on a punt and the ball moves from the 1 to the 20.  I see a team that got itself into position to win the game, only to lose on a bizarre intentional grounding call that was wrong.  But i also see a team that is incapable of converting on big short yardage over and over again and that simply has to be fixed.  

 

Can we FINALLY get out of the D'Angelo Hall business?  Enough of this guy already.  This loss was on the defense, obviously.  LOL at anyone blaming Kirk Cousins.  They have no pass rush with Allen out and Matt not the same. By the end of the game the pressure was non-existent. The crap DL we were all concerned about has shown it's ugly head.  I hated the signing of the M Brothers and they have proven me right, they both stink. 

 

But I was very excited to see the growth of Josh Doctson , he is running much more crisp routes and is showing his ability to make plays downfield.  Perine ran much better than I thought he could, that was encouraging but they need a more dynamic back there.  So some positives for sure including the QB.  That was a very good performance there and if you can't appreciate that your expectations are unrealistic.  

Agreed Offense played well enough to win the last two weeks defense has let us down they really couldn’t afford Allen and Foster out, this team if we make some COMPETENT moves this offseason drafting for the Dline again and some offensive playmakers after resigning cousins they can compete, but if Allen thinks he’s god again and allows key pieces to walk and signing journeymen we won’t be much again I do think they are close however.

[SkinsGuy]

6 hours ago, Panninho said:

 

It's very unfortunate but it happens. Mistakes by refs happen to every team, they are part of the game. Nonetheless, it should have never even come to that point. I hope the team doesn't even consider that when analyzing the game.

 

You're right, mistakes do happen,but  this was beyond a simple mistake.

 

In this case, it appears the official allowed himself to be pushed and bullied into making a call he didn't believe in. I'm sure the ref would deny it and insist the timing of Sean Payton's tantrum in relation to him throwing the flag was just "a coincidence", but the look of it still looks bad.

 

That penalty took the Redskins out of FG range. There is no guarantee that Rose would've made that FG, but the Redskins would've won the game there had he been able to try.

 

This was a great game, and you hate to see the officials interject themselves and decide a game, and that is what happened here.

 

[SkinsGuy]

7 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

I am interested to see why Doctson disappeared in the 2nd half. I know the starting corner came back into the game, but it's not like Cousins wasn't targeting Doctson early on when that corner was there.

 

According to Gruden in the post-game presser, he decided he wanted to spread the ball around more. Or something.

 

Cousins did throw to like 8 or 9 different receivers in this game, but if Docston had a hot hand, why abandon that?

[SkinsFTW]

7 hours ago, zskins said:

 

Last week, an older gentlemen, not from this country, leaned over to me and said you know these games are fixed. I figured we are at sports bar and he has lost too many bets. I think he might be right.

 

The ending of NFL games has seemed like wrestling for a while. 

 

Vegas wants those games within the point spread. Refs make a handful of WTF calls to supplement a team already making what used to be a too little too late comeback. 

 

I'msure it's all a coincidence though. 

[wilco_holland]

I'm not sure if I love or hate D.J. Swearinger.

 

Love the man's passion and energy on the field. But kinda get tired of his post game quotes when we lose. Quotes like: I feel like guys didn’t understand the NFL. 

[KDawg]

Lots of overreaction in this thread.

 

Cousins: Played the best game of his Redskin career. He was fantastic. The grounding call was the right call by the book, but it wouldn’t be called if the game wasn’t on the line. The officials judged intent, which isn’t part of their jobs. Good call by the book, bad call because that isn’t going to be called very often. 

 

Doctson was phenomenal. The decision by Gruden to go away from him to get other guys involved is understandable, but at some point you have to go to the guy who got you there. That was poor coaching.

 

Perine was great today. People were too hard on him earlier in the year. He’s the best running back on the team (Thompson plays RB but he’s more of playmaker than a RB). I’m not sure if he’s the future at the position for us, but he definitely has a role on this team moving forward.

 

Chase Roullier: Awesome game from the live game watch. 

 

The only defensive player that played well, in my opinion, was Swearinger. The Skins need to keep him around. Bree was solid for the most part aside from a few poor tackles. 

 

The defense was bad yesterday. And bonehead plays in the waning moments of halves and games have cost this team more than a couple of games this year. I’ll always put that on coaching. I’m not saying fire Gruden because of it or anything, but they need to fix that aspect of the team ASAP. 

 

Special Teams have been atrocious. McGee, Holsey, Way... all made extremely critical errors at very bad times. It’s time special teams was taken a bit more seriously by the coaching staff.

[Darrell Green Fan]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The grounding call was the right call by the book, but it wouldn’t be called if the game wasn’t on the line. The officials judged intent, which isn’t part of their jobs. Good call by the book, bad call because that isn’t going to be called very often. ....

 

The only defensive player that played well, in my opinion, was Swearinger. The Skins need to keep him around

 

 

Two league officials called the team to inform them that it was not the correct call.  

 

Swearinger signed a 3 year deal.  

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Two league officials called the team to inform them that it was not the correct call.  

 

Guess it depends on interpretation of the rule. The way the rule reads, unless it was changed, is that throwing the ball away while in the pocket is intentional grounding when an intended receiver isn’t nearby.

 

Thats where it gets murky, though. Personally, I’d have to say that it wasn’t a clear throwaway. It looked like miscommunication (although, it seemed obvious Kirk did throw it away, that is irrelevant.)

 

The rub is: where were the receivers and was it CLEARLY a throwaway. If the league is saying that the receivers were close enough, then good. That’s how I’m feeling as well.

[DM72]

22 minutes ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

According to Gruden in the post-game presser, he decided he wanted to spread the ball around more. Or something.

 

Cousins did throw to like 8 or 9 different receivers in this game, but if Docston had a hot hand, why abandon that?

 

Because Gruden's not a good coach. You NEVER abandon what's working until it stops working.

[Darrell Green Fan]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

Guess it depends on interpretation of the rule. The way the rule reads, unless it was changed, is that throwing the ball away while in the pocket is intentional grounding when an intended receiver isn’t nearby.

 

Thats where it gets murky, though. Personally, I’d have to say that it wasn’t a clear throwaway. It looked like miscommunication (although, it seemed obvious Kirk did throw it away, that is irrelevant.)

 

The rub is: where were the receivers and was it CLEARLY a throwaway. If the league is saying that the receivers were close enough, then good. That’s how I’m feeling as well.

 

i believe the interpretation was the QB was not under pressure so it was not intentional grounding which is in place to punish a player for avoiding a sack. Bottom line is when 2 league officials take the time to call the team then it was obviously the wrong call and probably costs us the game.  

[Burgold]

This might rate its own thread, but what can we or should we do differently at the end of the half and the end of the game? Something changes. It's them, us or both.

[Burgold]

Why would the clock be running in any case? Clocks never run after an incomplete pass.

 

In the realm of things that won't happen, but should. They should have Rose line up a field goal and kick it. If he makes it then the Redskins are awarded the win. If not, the Saints keep their win.

[50yrSKINSfan]

15 hours ago, zskins said:

Someone please explain to me why we didn't just have Rose kick that long field goal after the intentional grounding call? NE kicker, you know who he is, just kicked a 62 yarder. Why don't our coaches take a chance when the game is on the line? Rose has a damn good leg too. 

Reason JG did not try for the FG is because if he missed it then the Saints would get the ball in great field position.

[RandyHolt]

I wonder much longer after Kirk commenced grounding the ball, would he have been under imminent pressure.... .5 seconds?  Does Kirk have to see the pressure, for it to be imminent? QBs have internal clocks and can sense pressure. IG is a judgement call and we got screwed, but the game wasn't over.

 

Sheehan is pissed at Kirk for burning off 9 seconds after the grounding call at the LOS, calling out the Mike etc.  After the 10 second run off, the clock was ticking and we were doing checks at the line, and Kirk still got sacked.  He or Davis made a mistake IMO, Davis released and Kirk got blindsided by his man. Cooley said Davis's hand looks like he has elephantiasis.

[50yrSKINSfan]

1 hour ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Agreed Offense played well enough to win the last two weeks defense has let us down they really couldn’t afford Allen and Foster out, this team if we make some COMPETENT moves this offseason drafting for the Dline again and some offensive playmakers after resigning cousins they can compete, but if Allen thinks he’s god again and allows key pieces to walk and signing journeymen we won’t be much again I do think they are close however.

Those 2 guys wanted way too much money and supposed you just took 1 and he got hurt like PG did then you would be in worse shape than you are now, having a overpaid old receiver taking up way too much cap space. Letting those 2 guys walk was the correct move as you have to give Dotson a chance because you spent a #1 on him and you got Prior cheap. He is younger and taller and everyone expected him to be as good as he was in Cleveland. Not the front office fault if a guy with a good track record does not pan out if he had a great year last year.

[SkinsGuy]

49 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Guess it depends on interpretation of the rule. The way the rule reads, unless it was changed, is that throwing the ball away while in the pocket is intentional grounding when an intended receiver isn’t nearby.

 

The rule clearly states, though, that for it to be intentional grounding, the QB has to be under great duress, imminently getting ready to be taken down and suffer loss of yardage. Hence, the QB throws the ball away intentionally to avoid that disastrous scenario.

 

Cousins was under NO duress at the time of the throw. In fact, he threw the ball immediately upon receiving it from the center.

 

This was just a bad, bad call. It wasn't the only thing that caused the Redskins' loss, but it stands out because it did definitely contributed to it, and it was out of their control.

[NoCalMike]

Wait so Gruden said they went away from Doctson in order to "spread the ball around more?" Unless I am missing some context there, how does that make any sense.  You find the open guy, you throw it to the open guy. Wash, rinse, repeat.   

[pjfootballer]

Meh.

 

We lost by 8 to a 6-2 team (Minn.) that is now 8-2.  We lost to a 7-2 team (NO) by 3 in OT that is now 8-2. Neither loss was embarrassing.  Now the Giants on Thursday would be a different story.

 

We have a MASH unit for a team.  We can barely dress 45 players to play.  Both games were expected losses to me.  I'm not using excuses, because a loss is a loss and you put on the field what you can. But, I'd like to think we could have won both games at full strength and we did the best we could with what we had.

 

I'll also add, that the same weaknesses/problems we've had for 25 years keep rearing their ugly head and that itself IS very frustrating.  I've come to not expect us to ever compete for a championship again the rest of my life. I've accepted that.

 

Oh well.

[50yrSKINSfan]

29 minutes ago, Burgold said:

This might rate its own thread, but what can we or should we do differently at the end of the half and the end of the game? Something changes. It's them, us or both.

Cut down or end the stupid mistakes. All we had to do was get 1 yard with a 235 lb back. When you have this you go straight ahead and jump the pile you do not try a stretch play as that takes away from your strength. Only use a stretch play if you had a small fast back. Big strong back you go straight. Another JG brain storm.

[Darrell Green Fan]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

Guess it depends on interpretation of the rule. The way the rule reads, unless it was changed, is that throwing the ball away while in the pocket is intentional grounding when an intended receiver isn’t nearby.

 

Thats where it gets murky, though. Personally, I’d have to say that it wasn’t a clear throwaway. It looked like miscommunication (although, it seemed obvious Kirk did throw it away, that is irrelevant.)

 

The rub is: where were the receivers and was it CLEARLY a throwaway. If the league is saying that the receivers were close enough, then good. That’s how I’m feeling as well.

 

As I said the rule is in place to punish a QB who is doing it to avoid a sack. As Kirk was not under pressure it was not intentional grounding.  It looked to me like the receiver was supposed to go outside.  

 

When the league calls twice to apologize that pretty much ends the discussion right there, it was a bad call.

[Wildbunny]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Lots of overreaction in this thread.

 

Cousins: Played the best game of his Redskin career. He was fantastic. The grounding call was the right call by the book, but it wouldn’t be called if the game wasn’t on the line. The officials judged intent, which isn’t part of their jobs. Good call by the book, bad call because that isn’t going to be called very often. 

 

Doctson was phenomenal. The decision by Gruden to go away from him to get other guys involved is understandable, but at some point you have to go to the guy who got you there. That was poor coaching.

 

Perine was great today. People were too hard on him earlier in the year. He’s the best running back on the team (Thompson plays RB but he’s more of playmaker than a RB). I’m not sure if he’s the future at the position for us, but he definitely has a role on this team moving forward.

 

Chase Roullier: Awesome game from the live game watch. 

 

The only defensive player that played well, in my opinion, was Swearinger. The Skins need to keep him around. Bree was solid for the most part aside from a few poor tackles. 

 

The defense was bad yesterday. And bonehead plays in the waning moments of halves and games have cost this team more than a couple of games this year. I’ll always put that on coaching. I’m not saying fire Gruden because of it or anything, but they need to fix that aspect of the team ASAP. 

 

Special Teams have been atrocious. McGee, Holsey, Way... all made extremely critical errors at very bad times. It’s time special teams was taken a bit more seriously by the coaching staff.

Completly agree on Doctson and Perrine. Didn't pay much attention to Roulier, but he did seem to play OK. At least there was no blatant mistake, which is great from a 7th rounder.

 

I don't think D was as bad as it can be told around. But I have a huge gripe with Hall, that last TD was solely on him as he ran away from Hill, probably thinking he was passing him to someone else. He got burned a few times while playing CB showing his age again... He used to be great, and I feel a bit sad to Watch get torched like he was yesterday..

 

Run D was a shame yesterday though... We're really missing Allen in the middle.

 

On the call, I have to disagree. As much as I love your voice and takes around here KD, this was put in place long ago to prevent QBs from throwing away and avoid a sack. Kirk was nowhere getting killed (liked he was on that Grant TD). So that's tough. Especially when they don't throw the flag until after Payton complained.

If they want to call it, then go, do it. Just don't wait for the home HC to complain...

 

45 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Why would the clock be running in any case? Clocks never run after an incomplete pass.

 

In the realm of things that won't happen, but should. They should have Rose line up a field goal and kick it. If he makes it then the Redskins are awarded the win. If not, the Saints keep their win.

Another huge miss from the refs. There was clearly no reason to make that 10 seconds run off.

I can see refs making mistakes as it's not always easy to judge at full speed. But I do have a problem with refs not knowing the rules. And an even bigger one when let them influenced by what a coach say. Whoever it is.

 

20 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Wait so Gruden said they went away from Doctson in order to "spread the ball around more?" Unless I am missing some context there, how does that make any sense.  You find the open guy, you throw it to the open guy. Wash, rinse, repeat.   

Half-time adjustments?

The Saints D is no fluke this year, so they would have reacted to Doctson one way or another. And if they doubled Doctson, then we decided to spread the ball to make up for it.

 

18 minutes ago, pjfootballer said:

Meh.

 

We lost by 8 to a 6-2 team (Minn.) that is now 8-2.  We lost to a 7-2 team (NO) by 3 in OT that is now 8-2. Neither loss was embarrassing.  Now the Giants on Thursday would be a different story.

 

We have a MASH unit for a team.  We can barely dress 45 players to play.  Both games were expected losses to me.  I'm not using excuses, because a loss is a loss and you put on the field what you can. But, I'd like to think we could have won both games at full strength and we did the best we could with what we had.

 

I'll also add, that the same weaknesses/problems we've had for 25 years keep rearing their ugly head and that itself IS very frustrating.  I've come to not expect us to ever compete for a championship again the rest of my life. I've accepted that.

 

Oh well.

Yeah, taking into consideration, yes it's not embarrassing. If you just look at the end result.

But looking at how both games were decided, then that's freaking embarrassing...

 

The only positive I do see is that damn, we have a QB and a Coach that were able to put on 30+ points on 2 of the best D out there... Vikings just killed the Rams and Young prodigee McVay.

So we have not much weapons, and lost our best during this game, but we still are able to move the ball and score. That is just impressive.

[DM72]

I forget the posters name and I hope he see this, but he said, "Brees does this all the time." No he doesn't.

 

 

[TheGreek1973]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

Guess it depends on interpretation of the rule. The way the rule reads, unless it was changed, is that throwing the ball away while in the pocket is intentional grounding when an intended receiver isn’t nearby.

 

Thats where it gets murky, though. Personally, I’d have to say that it wasn’t a clear throwaway. It looked like miscommunication (although, it seemed obvious Kirk did throw it away, that is irrelevant.)

 

The rub is: where were the receivers and was it CLEARLY a throwaway. If the league is saying that the receivers were close enough, then good. That’s how I’m feeling as well.

From what I know that is not how the rule goes, the rule goes if you throw the ball when you are about to be sacked to a space without a receiver from the pocket then it is intentional grounding.  And that is exactly as it should be because lets face it if its like you say it is then its a very stupid rule when a QB can take the ball from the snap and ground it.  What is the freaking divergence.  Cousins was not remotely under duress or about to get sacked.  Terrible call from refs that had terrible calls or better said non calls on us.

 

That pass to Doctson in the endzon in the first quarter at the very least should have been a illegal contact penalty.  But really new golden boy of the NFL Lattimore was all over Doctson without looking for the ball when the ball was in the air.  Total BS non-call, should have been PI and ball on the 1 yard line.
 

[SkinsFTW]

44 minutes ago, Burgold said:

This might rate its own thread, but what can we or should we do differently at the end of the half and the end of the game? Something changes. It's them, us or both.

What makes it worse is we are always starting the game well enough on both sides to lead at least until near the half. Every single week.

 

I think that the plan going in to every game works, what they planned out and the players were prepared for always is successful. Just about 100% of the time.

 

It starts going off the rails and it's like nothing seen since the Romo led turds of 2011-2014.

 

Remember the famous Norv line "What we do works". Well it certainly does, until it doesn't, all at once. Like an avalanche.