"We've been losing. What I want is for us to finish dead last."

[Rufus T Firefly]

I can't tell who is being serious from who isn't anymore.

[KuNiT21]

I don't understand the whole tanking the season 1-15, and also re-signing RG3?  Teams tank seasons for QB's in the draft, you can't have it both ways.  Tanking a season without a legit #1 pick college QB (Matt Ryan/Manning/Brees/Luck) results in the Houston Texans. A team that isn't going anywhere with Ryan Fitzpatrick as a QB and will have to gamble with a QB next draft because they might end up with a middle of the pack pick.  Are the Redskins going to drastically improve next year on a top 5 pick not a QB?  Improve for sure, but not drastically. 

 

I hope this teams comes out and shocks the world Monday night vs the Seahawks....then proceeds by blowing out Arizona the following week.

[Rufus T Firefly]

I don't understand the whole tanking the season 1-15, and also re-signing RG3?  Teams tank seasons for QB's in the draft, you can't have it both ways.  Tanking a season without a legit #1 pick college QB (Matt Ryan/Manning/Brees/Luck) results in the Houston Texans. A team that isn't going anywhere with Ryan Fitzpatrick as a QB and will have to gamble with a QB next draft because they might end up with a middle of the pack pick.  Are the Redskins going to drastically improve next year on a top 5 pick not a QB?  Improve for sure, but not drastically. 

 

I hope this teams comes out and shocks the world Monday night vs the Seahawks....then proceeds by blowing out Arizona the following week.

I'm not in tank mode, but a higher pick is better than a lower pick, so I don't really get the question here. You can theoretically draft a better player or trade down for more picks, maybe both.

 

For the record, I think Mariota is a legit #1 pick.

[NikoBellic]

I agree with the OP, except that we shouldn't try to tank the season purposefully; just give the younger guys reps and let them try to win. also, just one more thing i disagree with is shelving rg3 entirely; although, yes, we should be cautious with him and give him 3-4 more weeks than he needs to fully recover. even if he plays 4-5 games, that's better than nothing at all.

[Garcon More Wine]

the nationals adopted the "lets be abysmal for the long haul".  endured 4-5 years of just brutal baseball.  was it worth it?

 

it sure was.  and i get the sports are different, but the mentality is the same.  build build build.  we dont need to try and win it all every year.

 

but snyder will never allow a true rebuild.  i really thought shanny was trying in 2010/2011 aside from the mcnabb deal (which i still think was a move to have a good vet playing QB instead of god knows who).  weve whiffed in free agency the last few years due to the cap issue, and weve whiffed on most of our draft depth aside from skill players.  oline has 0 depth, we have the worst secondary in football with no hope in sight, a clueless coordinator, an injured QB, two injured TEs, a rookie head coach, etc.

 

looking like another 5-11 season (with some pointless sprinkled wins in nov/dec that will screw us out of draft picks, just like 2011 did with those giants games we had no business winning that cost us the picks we traded to get griff)

[SkinsFTW]

i have a good feeling that we will beat seattle on MNF. if i am wrong, i will admit on ES that night immediately after the game that i was wrong. so heres to hoping i dont have to come back after the game to admit that

That's like having to admit that the world is round.

[Garcon More Wine]

That's like having to admit that the world is round.

 

typical rock smoking skins fan.  yes, a team thats given up 80+ points back to back weeks with a backup QB, no defense, and a rash of injuries is somehow going to beat the defending superbowl champions.

[SkinsFTW]

typical rock smoking skins fan.  yes, a team thats given up 80+ points back to back weeks with a backup QB, no defense, and a rash of injuries is somehow going to beat the defending superbowl champions.

Well at least he's being stubborn about it

[Cooleyfan1993]

typical rock smoking skins fan. yes, a team thats given up 80+ points back to back weeks with a backup QB, no defense, and a rash of injuries is somehow going to beat the defending superbowl champions.

Lol....I don't even smoke. Never have, never will

[Conn]

I don't understand the whole tanking the season 1-15, and also re-signing RG3? Teams tank seasons for QB's in the draft, you can't have it both ways. Tanking a season without a legit #1 pick college QB (Matt Ryan/Manning/Brees/Luck) results in the Houston Texans. A team that isn't going anywhere with Ryan Fitzpatrick as a QB and will have to gamble with a QB next draft because they might end up with a middle of the pack pick. Are the Redskins going to drastically improve next year on a top 5 pick not a QB? Improve for sure, but not drastically.

I hope this teams comes out and shocks the world Monday night vs the Seahawks....then proceeds by blowing out Arizona the following week.

If you're going to speak authoritatively on this subject, you shouldn't list guys like Brees and Ryan among those other names. Not even close to consensus "tank-worthy" QB prospects. Brees was a 2nd rounder and Ryan was seen as a reach at #3 by many, many people.

[Jericho]

Its weird how much people overreact to 1 game. While the Skins lost to Houston and Philly, those games were essentially toss ups decided by 1-2 big plays. And both were road games. Neither are bad losses. Beating Jacksonville isn't much to get excited about, but the team just destroyed them. And then it laid an absolute egg on Thursday. But does that undo the three previous weeks? Thursday games are notoriously sloppy and bad given the short rest. I don't think the team is remotely as bad as it looked.

 

That being said, I have no illusions with this team. I'm not expecting playoffs or anything. The team is probably starring at another top 10 pick unless Griffin gets healthy quickly. And it will need to give the young guys a look. But it's really not as bad as some think it is.

[Rufus T Firefly]

That being said, I have no illusions with this team. 

[bedlamVR]

I understand the pessimism and I agree I think we have to consider this season a total loss, but playing for 1-15 isn't brave or radical it just takes you down the path that that guarantees constant loosing and that is constant change. 1-15 and we hit the reset button on the franchise and what happens when in 2 or 3 years time we are still not competitive do we do it again, and again and again and again.... wait is that what we have not already been doing ?

 

And this idea that what we need is a FO that will stand up and oppose Dan Snyder and or a GM to Challenge both the authority and the thinking of Bruce Allen is stuff for feal good movies only. There is a difference between strong debate and out and out conflict. Steve Jobs used to tell a story of the Rolling Stones. They were 4 very strong personalities and clashed constantly, sure people will point to their long term success but there were long periods where nothing got done, nothing was achieved because everytime they came together they clashed. 

 

What we need is a FO which can decide on a course of a action and an identity for the team and stick with it.

 

And this sticking with it is the issue I have. The fanbase will not allow the team to grow because for all the posturing all the wailing and gnashing of teeth saying we are fine with loosing and letting players get take their lumps the fans really aren't. This Cousins Griffin  thing is the perfect example. Griffin has shown he can be a competitive and a really really good QB. If he can pull it all together and make this transition fully then he could be one of the best ever. Cousins came in and played very well off the bench against the Jaguars and then well for a half in Philadelphia and all of a sudden he is the future of the team. Throw everything else out over the last two years and yipiee here we go again.... I hated the Giants game, Cousins played very poorly but it a slap in the face that we as a fan-base needed to remind us that Cousins is the back up. He may be a a great QB someday or he may be a great backup but now is not the time to be pushing Griffin to the bench permanently.  Two years ago the decision was made to take a gamble on Griffin and it was a big investment but you don't walk away before knowing how the story plays out.

 

I like the idea of feeding the rookies in and increasing the playing time but throwing them all to the wolves before they are ready can be counter productive.  And again it goes back to the fanbase. A player who looks bad in his rookie season because he is being asked to do too much before he is ready is doomed.

 

And the fanbase does have a say. We boo our own.

 

I also think that this is where we find out what Gruden is made of can he make a team that can come through adversity or just a guy. I like a lot of what Gruden has done so far but I don't like the way he has dealt with the QB situation . This ambiguity is not good and this is a great way for him to loose the locker room by not showing leadership. It is great to support your current starter but where they are the back ups then you also have to have faith is the guys you had ahead of them were the right guys in the first place. Injury should not be the reason someone looses their starting position.

 

One thing I would change is the relationship with the media. I am sick of the unnamed sources that spread descent through the team. The next unnamed sources story that came out I would scour the building and very publicly remove him or her from the organization. Regardless of who it is. Something you cannot put your name to is not something worth saying.

[RemoveSnyder]

How many draft picks and what round of draft picks can we get for the 2015 & 2016 drafts, if we sell everything of value that we have?

 

Similarly in vein, which players on our team, of value, can return a 1st rnd selection and/or a 2nd rnd selection, if we were to sell them?

[DC9]

Does anyone have a gif or vid of Leribus getting blown up last night? Seriously I watch a lot of football I don't think I've ever seen an interior OLineman get pushed flat on his back right off the snap before. Ever

 

It happened a couple of times in 2012, as well.

 

He's better against the run (as are most linemen) but he isn't great there either.

 

Keep sending him out.

How many draft picks and what round of draft picks can we get for the 2015 & 2016 drafts, if we sell everything of value that we have?

 

Similarly in vein, which players on our team, of value, can return a 1st rnd selection and/or a 2nd rnd selection, if we were to sell them?

 

Trent Williams would get you a first.  I think some of the wideouts would get you a 2nd or 3rd.  That's about it for high-round picks imo.

[GoSkins0721]

It happened a couple of times in 2012, as well.

 

He's better against the run (as are most linemen) but he isn't great there either.

 

Keep sending him out.

 

Trent Williams would get you a first.  I think some of the wideouts would get you a 2nd or 3rd.  That's about it for high-round picks imo.

 

Almo would get a 1st or at worst a 2nd. 

[RemoveSnyder]

[Lerib]

 

Keep sending him out.

 

Isn't that what Viper kept telling Jester to do with Maverick before he eventually quit? 

[DarkLink]

Since there is no hope for this season, maybe we should tank for #1 QB in the draft who is NFL-ready (ex: Andrew Luck) and trade RG3 and Cousins somewhere else. Who cares if they flourish somewhere else? Apparently, they are not doing anything here. Also, get rid of Orakpo and get some talent on OL and secondary. I'm tired of our season ending in September and early October. It is ridiculous.

 

Maybe we should change our name? Cuz I think someone put a curse on the team after our last Superbowl.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

It happened a couple of times in 2012, as well.

 

He's better against the run (as are most linemen) but he isn't great there either.

 

Keep sending him out.

 

Trent Williams would get you a first.  I think some of the wideouts would get you a 2nd or 3rd.  That's about it for high-round picks imo.

 

I would think that some of our LBs and DLs might fetch 2nd/3rds as well. 

 

Having said that, I don't think we need to sell off everything at this point, but I would be so encouraged by a firesale of draft picks like Zoony described. Someone has to play the games over the next couple years. 

[chipwhich]

I can't believe this thread has gone down the trade every player on the 2nd worst team in the league for 1st and 2nd round pics.  You can't make this stuff up.

[Chachie]

 

 

 

 

Okay, Zoon. I chose your "It's over" thread to respond to because I like you the most. Here's where you're right...

 

1. Your philosophy of "out with the old and in with the new" is dead-on. Especially when it comes to offensive line and Orakpo being replaced by Murphy. 

It's SO time to just admit that Brian Orakpo isn't going to threaten any opposing QBs nor will he cover any RBs/WRs in the flat. He's not very good.  

Gruden should have taken this approach from the first day of camp.

 

2. Daniel Snyder is never, ever, ever going to "get it." I don't believe for one second that he's "given up the reins" of football operations. He just hires yes men and claims to stay out of their way. It's friggin' BS and he's a terrible sports franchise owner. If he loves this team and this fan base, he needs to walk away because he's killing both.

He will NEVER win a Super Bowl and he will never be a perennial playoff threat. We'll be at best first rounders for as long as we are owned by Dan Snyder. 

It starts at the top. Flat-out, straight-up, and all the time. No getting around that. He's terrible and that means we'll never be great. Ever.

 

Now here's where you're wrong... (but only in the short term.)

 

1. We can still improve significantly over last season's record. The problem is that 6-10 would be a significant improvement over last season's record.  

 

2. The Redskins came off a grinder of a game in Philly, suffered a ton of injuries, had a short week and were simply flat on Thursday night. They just didn't have the heart or the legs that night. They really are a much better team than everyone is panicking about. 

 

We'll play Seattle a lot tougher and we'll probably beat Arizona....

 

and at season's end we won't finish dead last. Even if we do it won't change the long-term. I'm sorry.  

[LetThePointsSoar]

keep your head up zoon. we're all hurting right now, I think I'm still a little bit in shock from Thursday. Can't blame you for reacting that way, but personally I'm just not quite ready to throw in the towel. I'm close. I'm just not quite there yet. We'll see I guess

[ddyork]

While I like Gruden, what this team probably needed was a Jimmie Johnson arsehole type who could come in, clean house, scare the devil out of the players, and build it his way.  Another thing, Haslett needs to go if we see another game like this.  Defense did not have an answer for anything the Giants did.

[HAILSKINSNYC]

Blaming Snyder after every loss is flat out lazy....the nonsense about hiring a "real GM" when you have a big name coach like Gibbs or Shanny is naive.   Most big name coaches have final say on personnel and coaching staff.

 

In regards to Bruce Allen being a "yes man"?   I highly doubt that.     For the most part, I like what Allen has done with personnel this year.

 

I don't believe Snyder is making any personnel decisions....and hasn't made any in 5 years.

[Shiv]

Blaming Snyder after every loss is flat out lazy....the nonsense about hiring a "real GM" when you have a big name coach like Gibbs or Shanny is naive. Most big name coaches have final say on personnel and coaching staff.

In regards to Bruce Allen being a "yes man"? I highly doubt that. For the most part, I like what Allen has done with personnel this year.

I don't believe Snyder is making any personnel decisions....and hasn't made any in 5 years.

Um, bull****. He was courting RG3 as if he were the prized debutante at the ball. Actually, second best debutante, the first one was already taken by an even sleazier douche nozzle.

Snyder can't help himself, it's all a ruse to make us feel better about the situation and take the crosshairs off his back. When he gets older and more senile like Jerry Jones, he'll stop pretending like he isn't the de facto GM. This **** show hasn't even hit it's prime.