"We've been losing. What I want is for us to finish dead last."

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Oh, Christ, are we already starting the disinformation on compensatory picks.

 

I only saw the reply to the reply.

 

1. First of all, there is no such thing as a second round compensatory pick. They start in the 3rd Round.

 

2. Compensatory picks don't work the way anyone thinks they do. If Orakpo leaves and signs a $20 gazillion contract with Houston, we don't automatically get a pick for him. It matters how many guys we sign. If Orakpo leaves and we sign three stiffs, we get nothing, because it's based on the total number of free agents signed. We need to lose more than we sign to get a compensatory for Orakpo. 

[DiscoBob]

Shelving Griffin was Shanahan's move.  We don't need to be doing that.  He needs to play, take every snap, run as many plays as possible, see every coverage and situation, and figure it out.

 

Shelving him depends on whether or not that will allow him to properly develop.  Players don't develop without getting reps.  If we shelve him and give all the reps to capt Kirk, then it will be counter-productive.  On the flip side, if we throw Griffin out there fresh off an injury he may get killed behind this line.

[zoony]

Every team seems capable of finding a sleeper skilled position guy. It's the sleeper linemen that turn you into contenders.

 

We actually had maybe the best sleeper linebacker of the past decade on our roster in Pierce and let the ****er walk. (Granted that was a lifetime ago, but it shows how under Snyder even when he get it right, we get it wrong).

 

We also had maybe the best sleeper defensive back in Ryan Clark. All that guy did is start on one of the greatest defensives ever when he left (and nearly killed a running back on national tv. That hit he put on McGahee in the AFCCG is the single scariest play ever I'ver seen).

 

At least he's back now, being a strong contributer at age 77.

 

 

I like Chris Baker, a lot. 

 

I would love to see us switch to a 4-3.  **** it why not.  Baker, Orakpo, Kerrigan, and Hatcher as your front 4, I think we could be better, instantly.  Though i'm not sure how Robinson, Riley, and ?Murphy? would transition

 

What the hell, give it a shot.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Also, let's talk about Jordan Reed and Niles Paul.  He is often held up as an example of our FO starting to 'get it right' with draft picks and player development. 

 

In watching the NFL this year, I'm convinced that good quality TE's might be easier to find than RB's.  Every team has a good TE.  We got torched by whatshisface last night, I don't think that guy was even drafted.

 

So excuse me if I don't get excited about Reed and Niles Paul.

 

The grand total production of opposing TEs against the Redskins prior to the game against the Giants is:

 

4 receptions

39 yards

0 TDs

 

I'm not quite as convinced that finding a good TE is a piece o' cake...so you'll excuse me if Paul and Reed still give me optimism lol

 

 

*edit: forgot one reception by a TE in the Eagles game...

[DiscoBob]

Your post assumes that the FO would have invested in the OL.

 

They probably would have taken a P, K, and WR with those picks.

 

WR...I can buy that, but we're not Al Davis!

[88Comrade2000]

Actually, we Redskins fans need accept reality.  For the as long as Dan Snyder owns this team and that will probably be for most of us, until we die;  the Redskins will never win anything consistantly.  Maybe once in a while, we will have a playoff season. Hell, maybe even a Superbowl by just having a team that gets hot and stays hot until after Superbowl victory.  Of course, the next season we would go 0-16.  We will just never win regularly with Dan as our owner.

[Probos]

"We are not likely 1-5, we are 1-5". oh, really? did i miss the upcoming 2 games? what was the final score?

 

lol. posts like that make me embarrassed to be a part of this franchise. havent you heard "ANY GIVEN SUNDAY"??? we are not 1-5. we are 1-3 right now. we have a chance to be 2-3 next week, all we need is a win.

 

See, this is just one of a meriad of problems it is being a fan of this team,......

 

YOU ARE NOT A PART OF THE FRANCHISE, YOU ARE JUST A FAN!  Sorry to break that to you.....

 

Yes, any given Sunday,...blah, blah, blah,....

 

Zoony's post makes more sense than not.  As fans we have the right to be upset, outraged and negative about this franchise because they deserve it.  They stink on ice.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

See, this is just one of a meriad of problems it is being a fan of this team,......

 

YOU ARE NOT A PART OF THE FRANCHISE, YOU ARE JUST A FAN!  Sorry to break that to you.....

 

Yes, any given Sunday,...blah, blah, blah,....

 

Zoony's post makes more sense than not.  As fans we have the right to be upset, outraged and negative about this franchise because they deserve it.  They stink on ice.

 

Just don't let that right to be upset, outraged and negative cause facts and logic to fly out the window lol...which is what tends to happen.

[PortisBetts]

We already asked for this in 2011 Zoony.

 

It was called "Suck for Luck" we didn't do it, and now we still suck.

Even Luck couldnt change this franchise. I mean that literally and metaphorically.

I'm pretty sure if we upset the Seahawks everyone will be talking about how the Giants game was a fluke, and we are the best team in the division again.

 

The only reason we would beat seattle is to destroy our draft position because we are not a good team.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I like Chris Baker, a lot. 

 

I would love to see us switch to a 4-3.  **** it why not.  Baker, Orakpo, Kerrigan, and Hatcher as your front 4, I think we could be better, instantly.  Though i'm not sure how Robinson, Riley, and ?Murphy? would transition

 

What the hell, give it a shot.

 

This came up on my thread that everyone ignored.

 

I honestly don't think it matters what you run in this era. Every team runs multiple fronts. And every team is baiscally playing with 5 DBs or more on second and third downs. It's not 1994 where the same three linebackers are always on the field.

[PortisBetts]

Every team seems capable of finding a sleeper skilled position guy. It's the sleeper linemen that turn you into contenders.

 

We actually had maybe the best sleeper linebacker of the past decade on our roster in Pierce and let the ****er walk. (Granted that was a lifetime ago, but it shows how under Snyder even when he get it right, we get it wrong).

 

We also had maybe the best sleeper defensive back in Ryan Clark. All that guy did is start on one of the greatest defensives ever when he left (and nearly killed a running back on national tv. That hit he put on McGahee in the AFCCG is the single scariest play ever I'ver seen).

 

At least he's back now, being a strong contributer at age 77.

 

Dont forget Chris Clemons.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

The grand total production of opposing TEs against the Redskins prior to the game against the Giants is:

 

4 receptions

39 yards

0 TDs

 

I'm not quite as convinced that finding a good TE is a piece o' cake...so you'll excuse me if Paul and Reed still give me optimism lol

 

 

*edit: forgot one reception by a TE in the Eagles game...

 

LOL

LOL

LOL

 

What about Mercedes Lewis

 

LOL

LOL

[No_Pressure]

This is 2011 all over again. When this board was divided between the people who knew we were terrible and wanted us to tank hard enough to take Griffin with #2, and the people who were talking about pride this and that, and cheering as we won meaningless games which put us in a position where we HAD TO TRADE 3 FIRST ROUND PICKS FOR THE PICK TO DRAFT GRIFFIN.

 

If we're going to suck, let's suck harder than a Vietnamese whore. Oh, and everyone who doesn't realize we're 1-5...we are. Maybe you want to wait until its official, but we're 1-5 guys. There isn't a chance in ****ing hell that we manage to beat Seattle. Arizona might actually cause Tyler Polombus to commit suicide and Kirk Cousins to break the single game interception record.

 

We're a listless ship once again lurching in the direction of heavy seas and storm clouds. This is going to get a **** load worse. I'm not even going to say "before it gets better" because we all know it isn't going to get better. It's just going to get worse and then maybe slightly less worse but we're going to be awful and its going to be for a long time. The rebuild now requires a rebuild.

 

THE PLANE HAS CRASHED INTO THE MOUNTAIN.

[The Trashman]

Injury update:

 

Williams - patella inflammation (whew)..target return Seahawks game

Reed - Due back for Seahawks game

[Heathen]

A few assumptions here, but let's pretend we're picking in the Top 5.  Two strategies - trade that back into the early 2nd and 3rd round where we could literally draft 4 offensive lineman with starting potential, or simply take a safety or corner with the top pick and an Olineman with our 2nd round pick and 3rd round pick.  I'd be fine with either, really.

I like both of those approaches. My concern is are we really 2 corners and 2 lineman away from fixing this mess? I'm afraid we would whiff on those picks as well, which makes me think maybe its the FO that is what needs to be fixed. But then again I think our defensive scheme sucks too, so maybe its the DC that needs to be fixed. Special teams is atrocious, and weirdly has been for years, so maybe THAT is what needs to be fixed. And how long are we patient with Gruden (I think we should be for a while, we need some consistency other than consistently losing/cleaning house)? Is that really the issue? Gah just feels like a mountain to overcome

[zoony]

I like both of those approaches. My concern is are we really 2 corners and 2 lineman away from fixing this mess? I'm afraid we would whiff on those picks as well, which makes me think maybe its the FO that is what needs to be fixed. But then again I think our defensive scheme sucks too, so maybe its the DC that needs to be fixed. Special teams is atrocious, and weirdly has been for years, so maybe THAT is what needs to be fixed. And how long are we patient with Gruden (I think we should be for a while, we need some consistency other than consistently losing/cleaning house)? Is that really the issue? Gah just feels like a mountain to overcome

 

 

It does, but I think our offense could truly be fixed with a few key pieces on the oline.  Give me a starting quality RT and Guard, that opens the power running game and gives our receivers time to get open. 

 

The line is so unbelievably important, and our line is so unbelievably bad...

 

But you're right, the defense is a mess.  Our secondary alone will probably take 3 years to build.

[munchak26]

Great post.  But, honestly, we have the worst owner, organization and reputation in all of sports.  There is no strategy that will restore the pride, competency or winning if that plan does not include a change of ownership.  Us 40+ year old Redskins lifers should make the end of the Snyder era our core goal and our singular mission going forward.  Boycott games, boycott concessions, hammer this regime constantly on any and all social media, etc - I'm open to suggestions.  It is the only way and the sooner we get this ball rolling, the better.

Boycotting games is the ONLY way to get the fans points across and to see any changes in the higher ups. I always ask myself how the Redskins could keep making tons and tons of money while not having put a good product out on the field in 15+ years all the while making the franchise the 3rd richest in the NFL over that period. Stop paying $10 for a piss poor beer and $13 for cold chicken tenders and fries. 

[SWFLSkins]

Injury update:

 

Williams - patella inflammation (whew)..target return Seahawks game

Reed - Due back for Seahawks game

Don't count on Reed for Seahawks and don't count on him to be a full go even if he goes. 

 

John Keim ‏@john_keim  1h

Jordan reed still rehabbing. a chance he could play vs. seattle. how great? Dunno long way to go. hammie was bad, gruden said

Brian McNally ‏@bmcnally14  1h

Jay Gruden followed up his own comment on Reed's status with "So you're saying there's a chance" So he's seen Dumb and Dumber, which is nice

[arftech]

just for sake of argument, say we do end up with the #1 overall pick next year along with the 1st pick in each subsequent round.  will it be enough to turn around the franchise in 1 season or even 2?  depending on FA and our cap and knowing how bruce is always looking forward 3-5 years on managing it, i just don't see the team getting better enough to not have to start over with a new coach once again....   then, when that happens, who's to say the new coach will even like his inherited roster?  to me, it's a cruel/vicious cycle we seemingly can never get out of...  i think we need some new thinkers in the FO to get out of this mess... the 2nd coming of bobby beathard would be a good start...

 

Paul, I'm a little late to this thread but saw yours and wanted to make a short comment.  If we finished last (God forbid) I would parlay the first pick into several picks.  This will allow the decision makers to fill many positions of need.   Playing the puppies to get them developed seems intriguing to me.

 

HTTR!

[clskinsfan]

I'm pretty sure if we upset the Seahawks everyone will be talking about how the Giants game was a fluke, and we are the best team in the division again.

 

No. It's pretty obvious this is still a bad team with a bad front office. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

LOL

LOL

LOL

 

What about Mercedes Lewis

 

LOL

LOL

 

I went off the depth chart on the Jaguars' team website lol...

 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Boycotting games is the ONLY way to get the fans points across and to see any changes in the higher ups. I always ask myself how the Redskins could keep making tons and tons of money while not having put a good product out on the field in 15+ years all the while making the franchise the 3rd richest in the NFL over that period. Stop paying $10 for a piss poor beer and $13 for cold chicken tenders and fries. 

 

We did that, and it got us Shanahan.

[DiscoBob]

It does, but I think our offense could truly be fixed with a few key pieces on the oline.  Give me a starting quality RT and Guard, that opens the power running game and gives our receivers time to get open. 

 

The line is so unbelievably important, and our line is so unbelievably bad...

 

But you're right, the defense is a mess.  Our secondary alone will probably take 3 years to build.

 

Our OL is unbelievably bad, yet for some reason our front office / coaches have missed this point for 5+ years.  Which is so infuriating because it has been obvious to even the most casual fan.

[SWFLSkins]

It does, but I think our offense could truly be fixed with a few key pieces on the oline.  Give me a starting quality RT and Guard, that opens the power running game and gives our receivers time to get open. 

 

The line is so unbelievably important, and our line is so unbelievably bad...

 

But you're right, the defense is a mess.  Our secondary alone will probably take 3 years to build.

 

We may not have a choice but to piece together a backfield year by year, the void that Rambo and Thomas cause by not developing has again set the team back. One of them contributing would have gone a long way. I like Amerson and Breeland but once you lose a Hall it really shows how much growth they need yet. Clark is a stop gap. Merriweather this year has been an embarrassment other than that crazy endzone play. I,,,,,I ya, yi. The OL, wow. Just wow. Need at least three players who can actually play. 

[Slateman]

"@ john_keim:  I enjoy analyzing football. would enjoy a season where that matters for more than, oh, five weeks."

 

The season is over.  All of the waiting we've done over the last 9 months, get ready to do it again.  Isn't this franchise fun?

 

We sat through the playoffs and watched, saw a bad superbowl, killed the time until free agency started (mostly with details about a coaching search), and started getting energized for football again.  Excitement building about aquisitions like Hatcher, Jackson, Clark, and Roberts.  How will defenses cover all those weapons at once?  How awesome will Kerrigan and Orakpo look with a push up the middle?  How will Haslett use his new toys now that Shanahan isn't meddling? 

 

Then, the draft.  More pent up excitement as we take a highly ranked RT and G that nobody has ever heard of.  Now, the offensive line is coming together!  With all of the weapons around him, how can RGIII fail?  Morris, Reed, Jackson, Garcon, Roberts... 

 

BOOM!  Did anyone get the license plate of the truck that just ran us over?  Here we are wrapping up September, and we're 1-3 with the two best teams in football lined up for the next two games.  We are not likely 1-5, we are 1-5.  We are going to get embarassed again on national TV and "playing for pride" mid-way through October.  We should look at these next two games as what is our course of least embarassment, not what kind of gameplan could we put together to compete.  I'll save you the suspense, we can't compete.  We suck.

 

Just shut it down.  Concede the season.  At 1-5 our only hope would be to go 9-1 if we want to get anywhere near the playoffs.  This roster should never be confused with a team capable of .500 ball, much less a 9-1 run.

 

1.  Shelve Griffin.  Blame a 'lingering' foot injury.  Nothing good will come from him stepping on the field with this cast of losers.  Stash him for next year, let him work on his game at practice.  Give him that year on the bench that developing QB's need, use the ankle injury as an excuse to keep the media off.  If you feel like you MUST play him, fine.  No more read option nonsense.   Hell, no more waggles and boots.  Make him drop back and throw from the pocket on every play in the interest of reps and devlopment.

 

2.  Put Moses out there at RT, let him get some game experience.  We will suck with or without Moses at RT this year, might as well develop a player.  I would actually be in favor of benching Trent Williams as well, but I know that's not realistic.  Not because he's bad, but to save him for a season that will actually matter.  We know Trent Williams can play, he might be the only legitimately talented player on our Team.  (I define talent in this league as a guy you could trade for a #1.  Spare me the "what about Morris/Reed/Garcon" BS)

 

3.  Put Murphy in for Orakpo.  Orakpo will not be here next season, there is absolutely no point in him being on the field.  This is doing nothing for our player's development.

 

4.  Put Long in for Chester.  Keep Leribus on the field.  I suspect the play last night where he got slammed backwards to the turf right off the snap was a learning experience for him.  The kind of school you don't get in practice or mini camps.  Let long get the same kind of reps. 

 

Let me make something clear... I DON'T CARE if these guys aren't as good as the starters they are replacing.  The point is to build a core for the future, or at minimum, find out what you have so you can then move on if needed this offseason.  My guess is that someone like Moses would get better by playing 12 NFL games.  Ditto Murphy and Long.  Whats the worst that could happen?  We give up sacks and lose games?  We don't generate QB pressure with long out there? hahaha

 

5.  Play for the #1 overall pick.  I can dream, can't I?  It will never happen, too many corporate seats need to get filled week to week and Snyder would never allow that kind of drain on his bankroll.  Helicopters, custom suits, and fancy dinners to pay for.  Besides, Bruce Allen lacks the confidence of someone who could think that big, as does Gruden.  They are not proven in this league and could never volunteer to go 1-15, though that is exactly what should happen for the long term health of our franchise.  Most likely what we will see are a few pointless victories in November and December to put us out of our ideal draft positions, but I digress, there will be Teams hungry to trade up to take Winston.  We should be there to capitalize.  That is the kind of trade we could make that could set us up to infuse our roster with enough talent to compete in this league.

 

6.  I get that Snyder would never actually hire a GM or Front Office Exec that would stand up to him and challenge him and tell him, when needed, that he is an idiot.  Snyder wants and needs a buddy... a yes man.  A guy he can bring into his world that will affirm his worldview - look no further than the parade of characters we've seen in the front office since Day 1.  We need to accept that as Redskin fans, but perhaps we can find a way to get around it.  Fine, Dan... keep your buddy Bruce as Executive VP.  Take him around in your private plane and let him do the yessing.  But, let's let Bruce Allen hire a GM that will challenge Bruce Allen.  I want a GM who will come into the building and point blank tell Bruce that he is doing it wrong and the organization has been doing it wrong for years.  That it needs to be overhauled.  Scouting, personnel, draft strategies, free agency, player development, the entire thing.  Sorry Bruce, I'm sure that will suck to have your new employee basically telling you that you are incompetent, but we as fans are asking you to take one for the Team, so to speak.  Do it for Redskins fans everywhere.  Throw your ego out the window and be the guy to insulate Dan Snyder from football operations, not the guy actually making football decisions.

 

7. At an average age of 26.44, the Redskins are one of the oldest teams in the league.  We need to get younger.  The only thing worse than sucking is being old and sucking.  That's us. Look at last season, we went 3-13, who did we develop?  Nobody.  We just got a year older, and we brought in older guys to shore up our defense.  I think this goes back to #6

 

8.  At the earliest, building the right way, we are looking at 2016.  If we try to compete and win games this season, expect it to be much longer.  Anyone remember the Seattle victory a few years back?  (SHF does).  Look at what that pointless victory cost us.  We are still paying for it.

 

9.  I think we could probably sign Robert this offseason to a cap friendly 4 or 5 year deal, something that would not break the bank, and allow us to build the roster.  All we need is a decent QB back there, we don't need Superman if we do it the right way.  The 2012 roster needed superman because it stunk.  A good roster only needs a guy to take a snap and either hand off or throw a pass in a clean pocket.  Or, after waiting 3 to 5 seconds, scramble for 8 yards.  You know, Russell Wilson.  I think RGIII is capable of playing that position, now. 

1. No. Griffin needs to play, if for nothing else, to develop. We can't keep protecting him.

2. Sure

3. I think we should play him, put him on the weak side, scheme to get him sacks, then deal him at the deadline for any draft pick.

4. Yes.

5. Sure, but I don't know how you do that.

6. Been asking for that for years. Never happens.

7. That's what happens when you give away draft picks, have terrible drafts, and have to rely on free agents to fill holes.

8. Ok

9. Doubt it. I also doubt he wants to play here much more. Wilson is light years ahead of Griffin. He's had experience reading a defense and  going through route progressions. Griffin's experience is making up routes on the fly and running like hell if the first read isn't open.