NYT: Missing Submersible Vessel Disappears During Dive to the Titanic Wreck Site

[tshile]

23 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

You can absolutely do an inspection on carbon fiber.  I have literally designed, performed, and taught others to do inspections on it.

Right. So in my haste in trying to pack a lot info in a short area I didn’t really explain it well

 

james Cameron was explaining that the company said they chose acoustic testing of the carbon fiber hull because, according to the company, hull scanning of carbon fiber hulls is as not doable due (I forget what exactly.) cameron contended that even if that was true, acoustic testing is not adequate because what you don’t want is the water penetration I described earlier, and his believe was the acoustic testing had too high of a failure/miss rate detecting it or adequately reporting it. But, he also spent some time, explaining that he didn’t think their clams about hull scanning was correct to begin with. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

1 hour ago, tshile said:

Right. So in my haste in trying to pack a lot info in a short area I didn’t really explain it well

 

james Cameron was explaining that the company said they chose acoustic testing of the carbon fiber hull because, according to the company, hull scanning of carbon fiber hulls is as not doable due (I forget what exactly.) cameron contended that even if that was true, acoustic testing is not adequate because what you don’t want is the water penetration I described earlier, and his believe was the acoustic testing had too high of a failure/miss rate detecting it or adequately reporting it. But, he also spent some time, explaining that he didn’t think their clams about hull scanning was correct to begin with. 

 

I am not sure what they mean by acoustic testing.  Ultrasonic can be done and would be excellent for water intrusion.  X-ray should do well also though it is a lot more finicky. 

[tshile]

2 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

I am not sure what they mean by acoustic testing.  Ultrasonic can be done and would be excellent for water intrusion.  X-ray should do well also though it is a lot more finicky. 

I believe ultra sonic and x-ray were what “hull scans” referred to

 

i believe acoustic testing, to the best of my knowledge, meant taking baseline acoustic measurements of how it handled whatever sound waves, and comparing it in the future to determine how much the hull has deviated from its baseline

 

cameron’s explanation was that it has a high miss/failure rate. They’re looking for separation of the layers in the 6” of carbon fiber. That separation is caused by the water intrusion. Cameron’s criticism was along two main points:

- unreliable to be sure about the level of water intrusion 

- unreliable because testing after dive number X means nothing about dive number X+Y

 

 

with his tangential third main point being yours - he thought the excuse for not doing hull scans was bogus, like you 

 

and it was part of the letter authored by the community to the company stating they thought this was an unsafe way of doing things 

Cameron’s other main criticism was that fiber woven hull designs, which are not new as the company liked to sort of pretend but we’re rarely used and not viewed favorably in the community, have a fundamental flaw regarding aforementioned layer separation and testing 

 

because it violates a basic ethos of deep sea diving which is that hull integrity should never be an issue. You should not have a sub with a design that questions hull integrity, and you should not have a maintenance/inspection process that leaves rooms for questions about hull integrity. 
 

every time you go out you should have absolute confidence hull integrity will not be an issue. There’s enough other **** that can go wrong and be serious, hull integrity should not be on the bingo card

 

but in this case design and practices violated this fundamental way of doing things 

[tshile]

 

I don’t know how much this capture of the whole thing. But it’s what I could find. 

 

[spjunkies]

This dude was actually on board that thing recently. 

 

 

[Fergasun]

Not sure if this was posted:

 

https://www.travelweekly.com/North-America-Travel/Mission-Titanic-part-1

[The Evil Genius]

 

[LD0506]

[Die Hard]

Haven’t you guys heard there’s an insurrection in Russia?!?!

[LD0506]

24 minutes ago, Die Hard said:

Haven’t you guys heard there’s an insurrection in Russia?!?!

 

I can multitask 

[Destino]

Listening to that James Cameron interview, he mentions what his concerns were when diving. He wasn’t concerned that his sub design would implode but was concerned with becoming entangled in a fishing net.  That’s a fresh terror I’d never considered.  

[spjunkies]

 

[Simmsy]

Ok, I'm going to be that guy: what exactly happens during a catastrophic implosion? Are we talking a soda can getting crushed by a car situation? Are we talking someone balling up some aluminim foil type situation? Did the parts of the sub implode and the pressure from the water squeeze them from the inside out? What the **** happens? Whenever we get to that part, the reporter always says "we'll spare you the details". No! I'm coming to you FOR details, tell me what the **** happened.

[@DCGoldPants]

3 minutes ago, Simmsy said:

Ok, I'm going to be that guy: what exactly happens during a catastrophic implosion? Are we talking a soda can getting crushed by a car situation? Are we talking someone balling up some aluminim foil type situation? Did the parts of the sub implode and the pressure from the water squeeze them from the inside out? What the **** happens? Whenever we get to that part, the reporter always says "we'll spare you the details". No! I'm coming to you FOR details, tell me what the **** happened.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/wireStory/catastrophic-implosion-titan-submersible-occupants-died-instantly-100346242

 

 

[spjunkies]

10 minutes ago, Simmsy said:

Ok, I'm going to be that guy: what exactly happens during a catastrophic implosion? Are we talking a soda can getting crushed by a car situation? Are we talking someone balling up some aluminim foil type situation? Did the parts of the sub implode and the pressure from the water squeeze them from the inside out? What the **** happens? Whenever we get to that part, the reporter always says "we'll spare you the details". No! I'm coming to you FOR details, tell me what the **** happened.

 

 

[Simmsy]

I've seen those videos, guys. I was looking for an answer to something similar to this video:

 

 

I'm guessing that is something similar to a "catastrophic implosion", I'm just trying to get an idea of how the sub was crushed. Looks more like the "car running over a can" type scenario.

[The 12th Commandment]

Basically a car/soda can scenario where there are cars pressing from all directions simultaneously.

[ixcuincle]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Ct1uiD3r2y7/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

[JamesMadisonSkins]

3 hours ago, Simmsy said:

Ok, I'm going to be that guy: what exactly happens during a catastrophic implosion? Are we talking a soda can getting crushed by a car situation? Are we talking someone balling up some aluminim foil type situation? Did the parts of the sub implode and the pressure from the water squeeze them from the inside out? What the **** happens? Whenever we get to that part, the reporter always says "we'll spare you the details". No! I'm coming to you FOR details, tell me what the **** happened.

 

Couple things I saw on twitter over the weekend, no idea how accurate they are but give you exactly what you're looking for:

 

 

 

[Simmsy]

28 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Couple things I saw on twitter over the weekend, no idea how accurate they are but give you exactly what you're looking for:

 

 

 

 

There we go! That's what I was looking for, that explains what I was trying to figure out, but what the MSM and others were too afraid to explain. The vaporized part is new, I heard they were turned into a liquid. Fascinating and terrible at the same time.

[Fergasun]

I know that people have been talking that implosion happened immediately and the passengers didn't know what was happening.  It is possible they had some warning with cracking and other noises as it is being discussed (probably via channels James Cameron is plugged into) the Titan communicated they were coming up and had released their ballast.  Additionally they had the useless hull integrity system.... which was practically useless.  

 

I still question -- and now I can articulate it better -- that if the deep submersible community had serious concerns, like James Cameron has relayed -- why were they not more vocally public.  "We sent him a very strongly private letter" is different than "we went to media numerous times and pointed out it was dangerous."  Especially since Mr. Rush was actively inviting media for free publicity (ie. CBS news report).  I am sorry, but if the experts were as concerned, why not one article that says - "We are Submersible Experts and believe the Titan is Dangerous."  "Here's why I would not pay $250k to tour Titanic".  

 

There are a couple of bloggers on the expeditions this year that did not go down. .

[China]

3 hours ago, Simmsy said:

Ok, I'm going to be that guy: what exactly happens during a catastrophic implosion? Are we talking a soda can getting crushed by a car situation? Are we talking someone balling up some aluminim foil type situation? Did the parts of the sub implode and the pressure from the water squeeze them from the inside out? What the **** happens? Whenever we get to that part, the reporter always says "we'll spare you the details". No! I'm coming to you FOR details, tell me what the **** happened.

 

 

[EmirOfShmo]

Hmmm...

 

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by EmirOfShmo

[spjunkies]

13 hours ago, Simmsy said:

Ok, I'm going to be that guy: what exactly happens during a catastrophic implosion? Are we talking a soda can getting crushed by a car situation? Are we talking someone balling up some aluminim foil type situation? Did the parts of the sub implode and the pressure from the water squeeze them from the inside out? What the **** happens? Whenever we get to that part, the reporter always says "we'll spare you the details". No! I'm coming to you FOR details, tell me what the **** happened.

 

Here's another for you 

 

 

[Fergasun]

Bumping and adding one more piece of information - the letter. 

 

This was sent in 2018, raising the concern of lack of certification in maritime environments.  I still will contend that not enough in industry were calling Oceangate / Stockton Rush out publicly -- ie. he did a number of positive media and no one from media reached out to industry and neither did industry speak up to say, "Before you go on this thing... this is an experimental vessell and does not meet industry certification levels.  Many of us have concerns." 

 

Sure, perhaps the company may argue or threaten a lawsuit, but the truth is a defense. This could have saved the Pakistani fellow and his son (but I am also thinking about bloggers and news correspondents who made trips).  Especially since Stockton Rush was like, "it's safer than SCUBA diving... come on in!" 

 

I think my attention has waned until we see news from the recovery effort and future report updates.