Welcome to the Commanders Emmanuel Forbes CB Mississippi State

[Conn]

1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

Agreed, Forbes was drafted to make plays in the passing game....ala Darrell Green. DG was listed at 184 lbs and was only 5'9. Has anyone considered that maybe Forbes makes his share of tackles by tracking down guys from behind because of his speed? DG was great at that. 

Why do people keep posting this? Green last played 21 years ago. A baby who was born during Green’s last season can fully go out and drink at a bar now. 
 

Nevermind the fact that being 4 inches shorter and almost 20lbs heavier means he is also not physically a good comparison for Forbes at all. Totally different body types. 

[Koolblue13]

Darrell Green was 184lbs.

[Going Commando]

Forbes has 92 percentile wingspan and speed, and 0 percentile weight.  Not only that, but his wingspan is 92 percentile while only having 78 percentile arm length, which means he has exceptionally broad shoulders.  Forbes is 6'1 with broad shoulders, he's got a good frame to build upon.  He will probably gain a lot of weight without losing speed just from strengthening his legs.

[Morneblade]

On 5/9/2023 at 7:51 PM, Bifflog said:

 

Well I mean if he's faster than 4.35, yowza...

 

And it looks easy. He never looks like he's full out.

 

On 5/9/2023 at 8:52 PM, KDawg said:

Close to 200? Let’s work on close to a consistent 180 first.

 

185 for me would bot "close to 200" for me. 190 would be better. But he is really lean, you can see facial muscles in his face. Probably needs to go on a high caloric diet to get weight up, he looks like the type that just burns calories like I used to.

On 5/11/2023 at 9:46 PM, KDawg said:

Just FYI gaining four pounds 4 days after the combine is water weight. You just don’t gain weight that quickly. 

 

I can do that in one sitting. Those are rookie numbers.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

This cat just moves different. Long and rangy with 4.3 speed. 
 

Who was the last, lockdown guy that we had? I think Shawn Springs and DHall had some good seasons but not “don’t throw there” kinda stuff. 
 

Man, what a weapon that would be. Fingers crossed.
 

 

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

4 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

This cat just moves different. Long and rangy with 4.3 speed. 
 

Who was the last, lockdown guy that we had? I think Shawn Springs and DHall had some good seasons but not “don’t throw there” kinda stuff. 
 

Man, what a weapon that would be. Fingers crossed.
 

 

Champ Bailey, maybe?

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

5 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Who was the last, lockdown guy that we had? I think Shawn Springs and DHall had some good seasons but not “don’t throw there” kinda stuff.

Shawn Springs was a stud when he was healthy. My recollection is that when that dude was on the field, we won a lot more than we lost and Vice versa.

[kingdaddy]

20 hours ago, Conn said:

Why do people keep posting this? Green last played 21 years ago. A baby who was born during Green’s last season can fully go out and drink at a bar now. 
 

Nevermind the fact that being 4 inches shorter and almost 20lbs heavier means he is also not physically a good comparison for Forbes at all. Totally different body types. 

The point is that corners who are playmakers don't come in cookie-cutter sizes and aren't drafted for their tackling ability...Green is just an example of how good an undersized NFL player can be. It doesn't matter how many years ago he played, I could've used other guys as examples too but Green is a good comparison because of his speed and gambling approach. If you're a blanket corner then you can make it in the NFL. That's why people keep posting this. 

[XxSpearheadxX]

1 hour ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Shawn Springs was a stud when he was healthy. 

Shawn springs was the 2nd best CB in the league behind Champ Bailey imo, just brokedown like a brittle thoroughbred. When he was healthy he definitely shutdown half the field as much as could be done in modern era. Physical also, just hurt all the time. 

 

Between Springs and Smoot it was constant stingers from tackling and sprained knees. Man they had some dominant performances also. Our line was so meh, so all our sacks were coverage induced back then

Edited May 15, 2023 by XxSpearheadxX
Sorry for reminiscing

[Mr. Sinister]

Skinny little fella...

[Conn]

3 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

The point is that corners who are playmakers don't come in cookie-cutter sizes and aren't drafted for their tackling ability...Green is just an example of how good an undersized NFL player can be. It doesn't matter how many years ago he played, I could've used other guys as examples too but Green is a good comparison because of his speed and gambling approach. If you're a blanket corner then you can make it in the NFL. That's why people keep posting this. 

 

None of those are good reasons. A HOF talent from 20+ years ago is not comparable to anybody. HOF players of all sizes are all exceptions by their nature. 
 

And being short and stockier is not the same type of small as tall and rail thin. One is a concern because you worry about them being beat by bigger players. The other is a concern because you worry if their body can hold up in the NFL.

 

There’s just no reason to compare those two players, and it somehow oversimplifies the concerns with Forbes’ size while simultaneously misunderstanding them.

 

I think Forbes can be very good. That doesn’t mean there isn’t a concern with his build. He’s not “small” as in short, he’s “small” as in twig-thin. And that can be worked on. But to pretend it isn’t worth bringing up at all is homer BS. I can’t wait for him to get his first NFL INT and have half the posts on the gameday thread be “wow so much for being too small for the NFL” which is reductionist, stupid, and misses the entire point. But that’s where discourse is at now on nearly any topic you can imagine so I guess it isn’t surprising. We can have a nuanced discussion without it boiling down to “you’re wrong he won’t be a bust!”…which isn’t the point being made. 

Edited May 15, 2023 by Conn

[HoggLife]

14 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Darrell Green was 184lbs.

Game was different then too. A lot tougher. For his size back then it is equivalent to Forbes size now cause the league is a whole lot softer. 

[Going Commando]

Can't get over how odd his body type and skill set is.  He's basically unique, and I think that is what is giving people doubt about him.  We don't like seeing things we haven't seen before.  Things that don't easily recall precedents of success.  His closest physical comparison on mockdraftable is Fred Vinson of Vanderbilt class of 1999.  And that's not even a good likeness because they are only 72.8% comparable, whereas almost all CBs have several other players that they are 90% or more comparable to.  Emmanuel's make up of tiny hands, rail thin legs and waist, broad shoulders and long arms, good height, and elite speed doesn't have any close matches.

 

He's built more like a basketball player than a football player.  He basically has Steph Curry's build from when he was a rookie.  Giannis was like a 6'8 version of this build and then he grew into a 7 foot tall monster like two years later.  Probably one of the most startling transformations of an Athlete I can remember seeing in basketball. Athletes like this seem to gain a lot of strength and muscle bulk by their mid 20s.  I don't think the process will be quick for Emmanuel, but I do think he is likely to fill out and get a lot bulkier during his rookie contract.

[KDawg]

I don’t see many doubting him as a player. The guy is a stud.

 

It’s his size. Not because people are worried about him making tackles. He’ll stick his nose in. It’s what he does. It’s longevity related. That’s the concern. That’s been the concern on him since he was drafted. 
 

He held up in the SEC. I’d imagine he can hold up in the NFL. But it’s a notch above and it’s a thought worth talking about.

[tmandoug1]

I think Mr. Forbes knows his build the best and has probably been mitigating his play to avoid injury for quite some time. He will be just fine. Now if he lowers his shoulder to D. Henry that may change....lol.

[HoggLife]

2 hours ago, tmandoug1 said:

I think Mr. Forbes knows his build the best and has probably been mitigating his play to avoid injury for quite some time. He will be just fine. Now if he lowers his shoulder to D. Henry that may change....lol.

And people here act as if we are playing Derrick Henry every single week and on top of that they just run Henry right at Forbes every single play SMH. 

[Captain Wiggles]

Tiny hands you say? 🤭

 

[Anselmheifer]

 

Kdawg, I’m less worried about him holding up than about him getting manhandled by really physical receivers. And I’m not that worried about that either. I don’t think Forbes has ever had injury issues and a lot of times little guys at WR aren’t necessarily more fragile. Guys like Pinkston with a similar skinny build have usually had more issues with hamstrings etc than with getting beaten up. 

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, HoggLife said:

And people here act as if we are playing Derrick Henry every single week and on top of that they just run Henry right at Forbes every single play SMH. 

 

It doesn't have to be Derrick Henry. Assuming Forbes sticks around 170-ish, he's regularly going to be playing against guys who mostly outweigh him by at least 30lbs; AJ Brown will have about 50lbs on him. I really do like him as a player, but that's still worrying. He seemed to do ok in press coverage in college (and it was the SEC) but I'm a little skeptical about his ability to do it in the NFL.

 

That weight differential plus the difference in technical ability between college and NFL wide receivers could be too much to overcome. Which isn't the end of the world. IMO he's not ideally suited as a press man corner anyway. More of a zone ballhawk type.

[KDawg]

30 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Kdawg, I’m less worried about him holding up than about him getting manhandled by really physical receivers. And I’m not that worried about that either. I don’t think Forbes has ever had injury issues and a lot of times little guys at WR aren’t necessarily more fragile. Guys like Pinkston with a similar skinny build have usually had more issues with hamstrings etc than with getting beaten up. 

I’m not necessarily worried about it, either. But he is small. Look at him.

 

My point is that talking about his size is valid. It’s wild that people think that means you’re down talking the dude. 
 

He’s a baller. I’m not worried about him getting manhandled receivers at all, either, by the way. The way he plays corner is via anticipation. He anticipates and reacts. He is physical at the catch point and will stick his nose in there, but he loves learning and understanding what teams and players like to do. 
 

He’s not going to let AJ Brown get close enough most of the time to maim him. 
 

Now, Brown blocking on run? You’ll see contact there. 
 

Receivers don’t hit. They can learn to shield contact and minimize big hits. Forbes will need to tackle and… he just likes getting his nose in there. That aggression is one of the things I love about him.

 

I just don’t get the, “DON’T MENTION HE’S LITTLE HATERS!” Stuff. It’s an Internet forum. It’s not a bad conversation. We have about 30 worse ones going on right now. 
 

It’s okay. 

[HoggLife]

6 hours ago, KDawg said:

I’m not necessarily worried about it, either. But he is small. Look at him.

 

My point is that talking about his size is valid. It’s wild that people think that means you’re down talking the dude. 
 

He’s a baller. I’m not worried about him getting manhandled receivers at all, either, by the way. The way he plays corner is via anticipation. He anticipates and reacts. He is physical at the catch point and will stick his nose in there, but he loves learning and understanding what teams and players like to do. 
 

He’s not going to let AJ Brown get close enough most of the time to maim him. 
 

Now, Brown blocking on run? You’ll see contact there. 
 

Receivers don’t hit. They can learn to shield contact and minimize big hits. Forbes will need to tackle and… he just likes getting his nose in there. That aggression is one of the things I love about him.

 

I just don’t get the, “DON’T MENTION HE’S LITTLE HATERS!” Stuff. It’s an Internet forum. It’s not a bad conversation. We have about 30 worse ones going on right now. 
 

It’s okay. 

Soooooooo you're saying there's a chance. 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Will be nice to have the extra ammo at DB. Forbes, Fuller, St. Juste and Martin is a damn good CB room. I mean damn good. Cannot wait to watch them in action. Maybe give our DL that extra tick to get there a whole lot more. 

[philibusters]

3 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

Will be nice to have the extra ammo at DB. Forbes, Fuller, St. Juste and Martin is a damn good CB room. I mean damn good. Cannot wait to watch them in action. Maybe give our DL that extra tick to get there a whole lot more. 

 

Don't forget Dantzler.  He has a three year sample size, where he has started about half the games in those three years for the Vikings and the indications are that he is a servicable starter/high end backup.  In three seasons, in which he palyed 505, 685, and snaps he has had PFF coverage grades of  64.7, 67.6, and 69.8.  Those numbers are somewhat similar to St Juste (actually a tiny bit better--who for example had a coverage grade of 60 last year in his second year) who most of us are still high on.

 

Though with the two Mississppi St. guys in Forbes and Dantzler we have a bit of a type.  Dantzler measured in at 6'2 188 pounds at the combine which was considered very slight and meant he would probably do best in an off coverage system like ours, much like Forbes.  Despite being in the league for three years, Dantzler is only 24 because he came into the league at age 21.   He is a full year younger than St. Juste despite being in the league one more year.

Edited May 16, 2023 by philibusters

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

I don't think Dantzler is someone we should be counting on. Why did the Vikings cut him when he still had a year left on his rookie deal? If he was a solid starter, every team would keep him for 2.74 million. Not saying QB rating when targeted is the end all be all, but he allowed the worst of the Vikings corners last season, with a QB rating allowed of 111.1. Of the passes thrown his way, 77.4% were completed. Honestly, I think he's got an uphill battle to make the roster in 2023.

 

For reference of the type of athlete and body type Dantzler is...here's his spider chart. It's ugly. The only thing he has going for him is height, everything else is awful to disastrous. Also note the short arms.

 

 

The team needs to find something like 10 million in cap room for rookies plus in-season acquisitions/adjustments/etc. The Roullier June 1 release gets the team close. To get that wiggle room they need then Dantzler's 2.74 million with 0 guarantees is an easy cut to provide that space.

 

If people want that spider chart in the form of RAS, here it is:

[clskinsfan]

On 5/13/2023 at 7:32 PM, Warhead36 said:

His coverage grades were quite good and he's not a gambler.

I dont know man. He got burned some off of double moves in college. It was one of the dings on his draft grades. I like Forbes. But I didnt have him as a first rounder. Not that that means anything at all. The one thing I will say about his size is if you look at pictures of him he carries no fat at all. Probably the lowest body fat index on the team. So I am not as concerned about his weight really. And I do think they can realistically add some muscle weight to his frame.