Welcome to the Commanders Emmanuel Forbes CB Mississippi State

[Conn]

 

[wit33]

What’s todays consensus on whether Ron and company draft based on need or best player? 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

10 minutes ago, wit33 said:

What’s todays consensus on whether Ron and company draft based on need or best player? 

Let’s create a separate thread called…

 

“BPA vs. Need, The Salary Cap, and Other Migraine Inducing ES Topics” 😆

[Stadium-Armory]

Glad we're drafting (what appear to be) high character guys. He brought his mom and sister with him to his first day in the building and spits yes sir and yes ma'am to everything. Seems like a great kid. 

 

Also, happy to see (MSU alumn) Smooooot in the building. One thing that really irked me about the Snyder era was the disconnection with past players. I hope that changes.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

35 minutes ago, Stadium-Armory said:

Glad we're drafting (what appear to be) high character guys. He brought his mom and sister with him to his first day in the building and spits yes sir and yes ma'am to everything. Seems like a great kid. 

 

Also, happy to see (MSU alumn) Smooooot in the building. One thing that really irked me about the Snyder era was the disconnection with past players. I hope that changes.

 

I wonder whose idea certain things actually were in the front office. Was it Jason Wright vs Bruce Allen? Was it Snyder meddling and then not?

 

Cause Bruce Allen went, so did Cooley and Portis, so did Larry Michael and a whole bunch of other guys. Now it's Santana, Smoot, and Paulsen. I know Rivera fired all the previous guys, but the new hires might be less him.

 

I kind of don't think this is Rivera as much as business, media, marketing guys. Which isn't Rivera's wheelhouse whatsoever.

[Koolblue13]

7 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

Pretty sure Jahan is in there too. You do realise there is some editing in there ?

what's editing? 

7 hours ago, Conn said:

That is probably true, but April is just not normally a time you see players hanging around the facilities unless they’re rehabbing. There were more players at the draft party that didn’t make it on the video, but I’m sure other teams do have more guys around lol

Remember when Kerrigan came back to sign his retirement papers? Everyone from the line showed up for him. That was awesome. I'd expect something like that for our new CB or something. It just felt a little awkward.

[Koolblue13]

4 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Let’s create a separate thread called…

 

“BPA vs. Need, The Salary Cap, and Other Migraine Inducing ES Topics” 😆

Featuring ES classics like "that WR is tall" and "we're not one player away".

 

Don't miss the special "who's still at Mortons" portion of the show when we compare our greatest FA busts!

 

Wait until you see who tonights "he's a football player" feature is about.

[Conn]

35 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Remember when Kerrigan came back to sign his retirement papers? Everyone from the line showed up for him. That was awesome. I'd expect something like that for our new CB or something. It just felt a little awkward.

Right, with Kerrigan that was in late July/August which is kinda my point. Draft week is like the height of players’ offseasons away from the facility. Dotson didn’t even meet McLaurin until his contract stuff was handled last offseason. This deep behind the scenes type stuff is just newer content that we didn’t have access to 10 years ago so parts of it seem odd. Even 6-7 years ago, many rookies would never see the facility or sit in a meeting room with their positional coaches (never mind with a big welcoming wagon type reception like this) before rookie mini camp, which is a week or two after the draft. Some guys not until they signed their rookie contracts (and there used to be holdouts!) This level of access, even sporadic as it is, is just kind of new to us, with teams doing stuff they didn’t use to specifically for social media purposes. 

[skinny21]

36 minutes ago, Conn said:

Right, with Kerrigan that was in late July/August which is kinda my point. Draft week is like the height of players’ offseasons away from the facility. Dotson didn’t even meet McLaurin until his contract stuff was handled last offseason. This deep behind the scenes type stuff is just newer content that we didn’t have access to 10 years ago so parts of it seem odd. Even 6-7 years ago, many rookies would never see the facility or sit in a meeting room with their positional coaches (never mind with a big welcoming wagon type reception like this) before rookie mini camp, which is a week or two after the draft. Some guys not until they signed their rookie contracts (and there used to be holdouts!) This level of access, even sporadic as it is, is just kind of new to us, with teams doing stuff they didn’t use to specifically for social media purposes. 

I gotta say, even though it’s all essentially fluff, I’m eating it up, especially the window into the drafting process.  Although I’ll add that the hoopla for Terry and Allen’s contract signings were probably pretty cool for the players themselves.  Fluff, yes… but classy fluff, lol.

[Conn]

22 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I gotta say, even though it’s all essentially fluff, I’m eating it up, especially the window into the drafting process.  Although I’ll add that the hoopla for Terry and Allen’s contract signings were probably pretty cool for the players themselves.  Fluff, yes… but classy fluff, lol.

I agree, I’d pay money for VOD of each team’s trade calls with each other—failed trades, successful completed trades, the near misses and the ones that get a chuckle after the phone is hung up. That is KILLER content to see the decision makers negotiate live, consider, and decide. Never mind the rest of what’s happening on draft weekend—like the way teams had players ranked, who is pounding the table for which players, which picks surprised other FO’s and when were they sniped on a pick, etc. 

[Skinsinparadise]

12 hours ago, wit33 said:

What’s todays consensus on whether Ron and company draft based on need or best player? 

 

Keim sort of broke that code on draft day as I posted at that time.

 

Day 1 he said before it started

 

O line and CB are their top chases

 

Day 2 he said before it started

 

O line and nickle

 

Day 3 he said before it started

 

RB, O line, Edge, LB.

 

The onlly thing that didn't happen was LB.  So clearly they were chasing specific spots on each day because it panned out exactly as he expressed they prioritized their needs.

Edited June 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[RandyHolt]

For any interested here are the four coverage categories explained: Man, zone, zone match and man match

 

https://theathletic.com/2275485/2020/12/22/defense-coverages-types-man-zone/

 

Curious which leads to the most INTs for our Forbes to get to work

Edited June 3, 2023 by RandyHolt

[lovemaskins]

6 hours ago, Conn said:

I agree, I’d pay money for VOD of each team’s trade calls with each other—failed trades, successful completed trades, the near misses and the ones that get a chuckle after the phone is hung up. That is KILLER content to see the decision makers negotiate live, consider, and decide. Never mind the rest of what’s happening on draft weekend—like the way teams had players ranked, who is pounding the table for which players, which picks surprised other FO’s and when were they sniped on a pick, etc. 

Never happen.  Media second guessing is already crazy without having access to every decision the coaches make real time. How would that affect a coaches decision making knowing cameras are on him during the sausage making? Does he make a decision based on public perception? Sure, clips after the fact are awesome, but i still think privacy is needed to do a good job.  We don't need access to every damn thing!

[bowhunter]

10 minutes ago, lovemaskins said:

Never happen.  Media second guessing is already crazy without having access to every decision the coaches make real time. How would that affect a coaches decision making knowing cameras are on him during the sausage making? Does he make a decision based on public perception? Sure, clips after the fact are awesome, but i still think privacy is needed to do a good job.  We don't need access to every damn thing!

True, and it could also haunt them later. Imagine a FO verbalizing not to draft a guy bc they didn't have him ranked that highly, is too skinny, or has character concerns. Fast forward 4 years later when they are pursuing him as a FA 

[Conn]

2 hours ago, lovemaskins said:

Never happen.  Media second guessing is already crazy without having access to every decision the coaches make real time. How would that affect a coaches decision making knowing cameras are on him during the sausage making? Does he make a decision based on public perception? Sure, clips after the fact are awesome, but i still think privacy is needed to do a good job.  We don't need access to every damn thing!

Of course, it would never happen and for many reasons (many good, many not). Just a dream

[MartinC]

5 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

For any interested here are the four coverage categories explained: Man, zone, zone match and man match

 

https://theathletic.com/2275485/2020/12/22/defense-coverages-types-man-zone/

 

Curious which leads to the most INTs for our Forbes to get to work

I’d be interested in understanding what man coverage is NOT match. 
 

Actually as I think about this I can recall quite a few snaps of man coverage in the past few years when we have failed to match anyone …

[Going Commando]

On 6/3/2023 at 7:09 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The onlly thing that didn't happen was LB.  So clearly they were chasing specific spots on each day because it panned out exactly as he expressed they prioritized their needs.

 

Or specific players, and Keim knew which ones they liked the most and would pick if they were there.  Somehow everyone knew we liked Forbes and that he was going to be our guy if he was there before draft day.  So saying we'll go CB in the first because you know they want Forbes specifically and he's almost certainly going to be there isn't the same as saying they'll pick CB no matter what to fill that need.

 

After watching that video, I think there is virtually no doubt that Forbes was the BPA for them and they were on tenterhooks hoping he would be there at 16.  I think it's clear that Del Rio had been pounding the table for him.

 

I also think Quan was almost certainly the BPA pick for them at 47 too.  His position wasn't even a roster need.  They already have three good young safeties in house and just picked another DB in the first round.  On the whole, this Commanders draft class didn't feel like a need-driven result.  If they had been drafting for need, for starters, they would have either traded up for Van Ness or picked Anton Harrison in the first round.

[Skinsinparadise]

12 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

Or specific players, and Keim knew which ones they liked the most and would pick if they were there.  Somehow everyone knew we liked Forbes and that he was going to be our guy if he was there before draft day.  So saying we'll go CB in the first because you know they want Forbes specifically and he's almost certainly going to be there isn't the same as saying they'll pick CB no matter what to fill that need.

 

After watching that video, I think there is virtually no doubt that Forbes was the BPA for them and they were on tenterhooks hoping he would be there at 16.  I think it's clear that Del Rio had been pounding the table for him.

 

I also think Quan was almost certainly the BPA pick for them at 47 too.  His position wasn't even a roster need.  They already have three good young safeties in house and just picked another DB in the first round.  On the whole, this Commanders draft class didn't feel like a need-driven result.  If they had been drafting for need, for starters, they would have either traded up for Van Ness or picked Anton Harrison in the first round.

 

Funny you mention Van Ness.  Standig poking around on the issue believes that's likely who they toyed with trading up for.   Keim predraft mentioned edge as the one dark horse position in the first.    And we know they poked around Van Ness.   But no way to know for sure if that's what they toyed with doing.   

 

The draft special as Standig among others mentioned can easily be edited.  You of course don't include stuff about being interested in other players you don't ultimately land.   Having said that, you really think they saw edge as a bigger need over CB?   Keim didn't think so -- O line and secondary they felt were their biggest needs.   So ironically if they did chase Van Ness for me it would defend them a bit on the BPA argument.

 

If zoning in on 2 positions in each round isn't drafting to need because hey its not just one spot, its two spots they focused on.  Then I'd agree with you.   But to me zoning in on 2 spots in each round and the key point for me is this -- the draft went totally by the book on that front round to round which is telling.

 

To me it's like saying in advance i am going to buy either a pretzel or a hot dog from a street vendor for dinner.  And I end up getting a pretzel.  The next day i say pizza or a hot dog.  And I get a hot dog.  On and on.  Someone can say I was flexible with an anything goes approach to dinner because it wasn't just one food item I picked.  To me it comes off still narrowly focused if i have just two foods in my head that I wanted for dinner and end up with one of them -- doesn't come off to me that i am open to eating anything.  

 

But don't get me wrong.  I like the draft.   I get the impression that they'd defend their takes and say just by coincidence their needs and BPA matched perfectly.  I'd say BS.  But I don't think they'd be a mile off of that either.   I do think needs pervade their shopping lists --- its obvious.  And i am sure its true to some extent for every team and every draft -- but I find Rivera to be more need based in his drafting than the typical team.   

 

But still with all of that, I do think this team generally drafts well.  I liked this draft, too.   I'd have preferred Gonzalez over Forbes but I get it with Forbes so am good with it.  Quan Martin was one of the dudes I was touting on the draft thread in the days leading up to the draft, including saying I'd take him with our 2nd rounder and he also made my guys list.  Stromberg also on my guys list.  Daniels, I liked.  Rodriguez I didn't watch predraft.  But watched a lot of him post draft -- good pick IMO.

 

Every off season they do things I like.  And I've been one of Ron's most rabid defenders year after year.    But I wanted some gradutaton this off season and in my mind this off season is just like the others.  Progress.  Some good things.  Building a nice house.  But without the killer instinct to build a great house.  

 

I'd figure in their off season #4, they'd fix this issue.  But IMO it was the same old same old.  I think Rivera pulled another 8-9 type roster.  I don't think this team will suck like most mock drafter types, the anayltic types, the national media, Vegas, etc believe.   I think the off season was vintage Ron.  He raised the floor.  But didn't do much for the ceiling.    Some nice moves but he didn't finish job.  In off season #4 I expected a better overall job. 

 

But he didn't do a bad job.  Decent work from him IMO.  But unfortunately for him he's in a division with arguably the best GM in the league, another team who some argue has the best evaluator in the league, and the Giants have an aggressive approach, their #2 guy was a higher up under Roseman.  I think he's out of his depth in this division.  But I hope I am wrong.  I like Rivera a lot as a person.  Great dude.  And lol I invested a lot of time having his back in post after post over the years.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Dark Acre]

Position flex -- get a pretzel dog! 

[Going Commando]

11 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Having said that, you really think they saw edge as a bigger need over CB?

 

I do.  A, the position is a lot more important and valuable than CB, less volatile year over year, and usually needs higher quality/more expensive commitments to address.  And B, the injury and contract situations on all of our edges casts our future at the position into doubt.  Remember how nobody but me saw center as a need for our team in the Linderbaum draft?  I think we're facing a situation with similar potential at edge, only I think most people know it this time.  And I think the FO knows it better than any of us. 

 

With OC in the Spring of 2022, the issue was Chase Roullier's bad injury history + the out built into his contract that assured he was never going to play out the end of that deal + the total lack of any young players in the pipeline for the position.

 

The issues with edge are different, but produce similar instability.  Ron's got his method of motivating young stars and it worked with Terry, Jon Allen, and Daron.  But those are solid guys who clearly handle tough love/challenge well.  Chase and Montez are as good as them, but they are not as personally reliable as them.  Montez has always had a streak of dumbass in him, which is why he got kicked out of Michigan St and took a long time to get to the NFL, plus he's had his ups and downs here.  Chase has too, and his maturity concerns + his terrible injury make him unpredictable.

 

And until we picked KJ Henry, this was another situation where we had absolutely no quality young players in the pipeline for the position group.  JSW is the closest thing to it, but he's a former seventh rounder coming up on the end of his rookie deal and not really groomed to be a starter.

 

This FO has a ton riding on Chase and Montez now.  They need at least one of them to pan out, and this is not a position in which they are comfortable.

 

11 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I'd figure in their off season #4, they'd fix this issue.  But IMO it was the same old same old.  I think Rivera pulled another 8-9 type roster.  I don't think this team will suck like most mock drafter types, the anayltic types, the national media, Vegas, etc believe.   I think the off season was vintage Ron.  He raised the floor.  But didn't do much for the ceiling.    Some nice moves but he didn't finish job.  In off season #4 I expected a better overall job. 

 

I think we disagree on the ceiling of the team.  I don't think these 7 and 8 win seasons have been us coming close to hitting our ceiling under Rivera.  Those were us hitting our floor, it just didn't feel like it because Ron has done such a good job stabilizing the team that we're not going to have these disastrous 3 win seasons like when Gruden and Shanahan gave up on us.  I.E., Ron has been a strong coach, and steadying a team to .500 through a ton of adversity is a clear mark of strong coaching.

 

I think our ceiling in '21 and '22 was 10-11 wins and circumstance screwed us two years in a row.  We lost our pre-season starting QB early both years, and in '21 we were marching to the postseason anyway before Roullier, Young, Gibson, McLaurin, and McKissick all got hurt during that brutal December where we played teams coming off extra rest four or five weeks in a row.  We had zero weapons left to handle a bunch of schedule losses.  Similar deal last year, but not quite as bad.  But losing key players early, running a ton of OL combos, QB instability, RB got shot right before the season, etc. that kept us from hitting our ceiling.  But a team that roughed up that Eagles team in Philly in a primetime game is not an 8 win ceiling team.

 

This team's ceiling is fine, and I think we have a better chance of hitting it this year because we got healthy on both of our lines, we picked a direction at QB, we strengthened the secondary, and we replaced the weakest coach on our staff (who had one of the biggest roles) with a really strong one.  Another factor is we've been raising a crop of offensive weapons since 2019 that is finally coming to maturity this year.  We probably had the worst weapons in the NFL in 2019 and it has taken forever to build up from that nadir, but now it looks like we might have one of the strongest groups + an offensive coordinator that should do a much better job designing and calling for them.

 

11 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But he didn't do a bad job.  Decent work from him IMO.  But unfortunately for him he's in a division with arguably the best GM in the league, another team who some argue has the best evaluator in the league, and the Giants have an aggressive approach, their #2 guy was a higher up under Roseman.  I think he's out of his depth in this division.  But I hope I am wrong.  I like Rivera a lot as a person.  Great dude.  And lol I invested a lot of time having his back in post after post over the years.

 

I don't think he's out of his depth in this division.  I think he's a savvy manager with a lot of credibility that has built a pretty good staff around him.  I also definitely don't agree that Howie Roseman and the Eagles FO are the best in the league.  I think Roseman is a shark of a trader and he's got endless rope from Lurie so he can take big risks, but I don't think he's that great of a drafter/team builder.  The unbelievable bounty of high draft picks he's accumulated hasn't yielded nearly as much as it should have, and I think he's made a mistake going all in on these Georgia kids.  That stuff he said during the draft about how it's on the team to keep Jalen Carter behaving makes me really skeptical about the culture Roseman is building.  That kind of babysitting just doesn't happen in the NFL, and if you're going to be so permissive with your players, then you have got to have a roster full of really good dudes.  He has had that, but those dudes are getting old and he's replacing them with not so good dudes.  I also think Jalen Hurts on Patrick Mahomes money is an anchor for teambuilding because I don't think he can carry a passing offense without elite line play and weapons (and they're going to atrophy around him following the cap commitment he now demands), and that their future is going to be a lot dicier than people suspect as their championship core guys in Kelce/Johnson/Cox/Graham all age out and retire.

 

TBH, I don't think the FO leadership in this division is that great.  Not compared to what it's like from the recent SB winners and the power teams in the AFC West and North and East.  Three of the NFC West FOs are better than our division's. Indy's is too.

 

I think Ron can be fine unless the Harris group comes in and destroys the machine he's built.  Roster-wise, he just needs Howell to play pretty well, the OL to stay healthier, and the defense to hit its potential.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Going Commando

[HigSkin]

Pete Hailey on The Junkies this morning said his bold prediction is Forbes gets DPOY since CB's like Sauce have gotten noticed.  He thinks he's that good.  We'll see..

 

 

 

 

CB Emmanuel Forbes, Washington Commanders | Projection: 50 tackles, five interceptions.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

I think we're facing a situation with similar potential at edge, only I think most people know it this time.  And I think the FO knows it better than any of us. 

 

 

I seriously doubt they do.  It's not what the FO told Keim. And Keim is rarely wrong.  They did exactly what they told Keim they'd do and they referenced the top positons of need -- secondary, O line. Heck even Ron referenced those positions of need pre-draft.  But even without that, proof is in the pudding -- they didn't go edge until ther 5th.

 

Van Ness though is potentially a really good player.  I took him in the board's draft in the first round.   I agree with your thought that edge is more valuable than CB even though the anyalytics types disagree with both of us on that.  But I don't think they saw edge as their top priority.  And if they did they have a funny way of showing it, considering them doing nothing in FA.  And doing nothing until the later rounds in the last draft.  And heck there are still good edge rushers on the FA market now.

 

6 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

 

The issues with edge are different, but produce similar instability.  Ron's got his method of motivating young stars and it worked with Terry, Jon Allen, and Daron.  But those are solid guys who clearly handle tough love/challenge well.  Chase and Montez are as good as them, but they are not as personally reliable as them.  Montez has always had a streak of dumbass in him, which is why he got kicked out of Michigan St and took a long time to get to the NFL, plus he's had his ups and downs here.  Chase has too, and his maturity concerns + his terrible injury make him unpredictable.

 

 

Montez supposedly has matured a lot.  Sadly, from what I hear its tragedy in his family life that might have contributed to it.

 

As for Chase, I am really shocked by the maturity stuff.  In college and in the draft process he came off as a dude committed to be excellent and hyper focus.  I gather something threw him off track.

 

I am still high on what he can do.  But I admit his injury he's bouncing back from is serious and the maturity concerns bother me -- so i am nowhere as confident.  But I'd still bet on a bouce back season.

 

6 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

 

And until we picked KJ Henry, this was another situation where we had absolutely no quality young players in the pipeline for the position group.  JSW is the closest thing to it, but he's a former seventh rounder coming up on the end of his rookie deal and not really groomed to be a starter.

 

 

I've watched all of the players they drafted extensively at this point.  And Henry is the one that is hardest for me to digest.  But who knows?  Great intangibles from what I've heard.  A. Jones has some ability from what I observed.  Obada is probably their best edge backup -- though he plays 3 technqiue, too.

 

 

6 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

 

I think we disagree on the ceiling of the team.  I don't think these 7 and 8 win seasons have been us coming close to hitting our ceiling under Rivera.  Those were us hitting our floor, it just didn't feel like it because Ron has done such a good job stabilizing the team that we're not going to have these disastrous 3 win seasons like when Gruden and Shanahan gave up on us.  I.E., Ron has been a strong coach, and steadying a team to .500 through a ton of adversity is a clear mark of strong coaching.

 

I think our ceiling in '21 and '22 was 10-11 wins and circumstance screwed us two years in a row.  We lost our pre-season starting QB early both years, and in '21 we were marching to the postseason anyway before Roullier, Young, Gibson, McLaurin, and McKissick all got hurt during that brutal December where we played teams coming off extra rest four or five weeks in a row.  We had zero weapons left to handle a bunch of schedule losses.  Similar deal last year, but not quite as bad.  But losing key players early, running a ton of OL combos, QB instability, RB got shot right before the season, etc. that kept us from hitting our ceiling.  But a team that roughed up that Eagles team in Philly in a primetime game is not an 8 win ceiling team.

 

This team's ceiling is fine, and I think we have a better chance of hitting it this year because we got healthy on both of our lines, we picked a direction at QB, we strengthened the secondary, and we replaced the weakest coach on our staff (who had one of the biggest roles) with a really strong one.  Another factor is we've been raising a crop of offensive weapons since 2019 that is finally coming to maturity this year.  We probably had the worst weapons in the NFL in 2019 and it has taken forever to build up from that nadir, but now it looks like we might have one of the strongest groups + an offensive coordinator that should do a much better job designing and calling for them.

 

 

I'll simplify my point on this.  As one scout once said its tough to be a good team with a bad O line.  I don't think much of this O line.  I'd love to be surprised.  And the early reports about camp, don't help reassure me. 

 

But yeah I've probably sold Ron's work on building the defense and weapons on offense maybe the most on this board.  I was a Dotson guy.  Robinson guy.  Cole Turner guy.   Antonio Gibson guy.  Before we took them.  Terry, too.  But he was taken by the prior regime.  So i am invested in the weapons.

 

But that's what's disappointed me about the lack of effort to fix the O line.  The upshot of that reminds me some of the later Eli Manning later years where the Giants let the O line talent go.  They had killer weapons.  But still were mostly mediocre at best.

 

Riding with this O line IMO wastes a lot.  Makes it tougher for Bieiniemy and Howell to be successful and negates some the offensive weapons.  Rivera IMO picked the perfect way to minimize the ceiling IMO of the offense.

 

I do think there is a long shot scenario that could work for the O line.  That would be if Chris Paul emerges and wins the job and plays well.  I like some of what I've seen from his college tape and if that happened and Cosmi stays healthy.  So I don't think its impossible for this O line to be average level but I'd bet against it because there are too many what ifs IMO coupled with questionable depth.

 

I don't agree with Matt Miller that this is the worst O line in the league.  But PFN's ranking of 26 feels about right.  If they are uber lucky, middle of the pack.

 

 

6 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

 

I don't think he's out of his depth in this division.  I think he's a savvy manager with a lot of credibility that has built a pretty good staff around him.  I also definitely don't agree that Howie Roseman and the Eagles FO are the best in the league.  I think Roseman is a shark of a trader and he's got endless rope from Lurie so he can take big risks, but I don't think he's that great of a drafter/team builder.

 

I disagree.  They always seem to have monster D lines and O lines.  They kept working the QB position even when they thought they had a solution.  They constantly add draft capital.  They often locked in their own players before their market gets out of hand.  On and on.

 

6 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

 

TBH, I don't think the FO leadership in this division is that great.  Not compared to what it's like from the recent SB winners and the power teams in the AFC West and North and East.  Three of the NFC West FOs are better than our division's. Indy's is too.

 

I think Ron can be fine unless the Harris group comes in and destroys the machine he's built.  Roster-wise, he just needs Howell to play pretty well, the OL to stay healthier, and the defense to hit its potential.

 

Will McClay is considered by some as one of the best in the business so Dallas has drafted well generally.  The Giants new brass accomplished in one year something this team hasn't done since 2006 and I like their off season so they might be able to imporve on that.

 

I agree with the idea that Ron can be "fine".  Fine to me is the operate word.  Competent but not great. 

 

I wish Ron has buit a "machine.".  It feels like the 2015-2017 Jay Gruden era.  It felt cool to be a steady eddy 8-8 team versus sucking.  But it got old.  

 

Finlay was talking about this the other day, he among others is expecting Ron to be gone next year.  Heck Ron's own rhetoric gives me the vibe that he thinks he will be gone.  And unless he makes the playoffs this season -- I am 100% into moving on with zero reservations.  But I have no bitterness about it.  He is a good man, brings good culture.  And did well considering context here.  But otherwise i don't think he knows how to build a killer roster.  But I do think he's capable of  B level solid work.

 

I think my other issue with Rivera if I were Harris is for a dude who loves to talk about how he wants to win the fans back, he's tone deaf to the process right down to praising Dan Snyder as he's about to leave.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[UK Skins]

16 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Montez supposedly has matured a lot.  Sadly, from what I hear its tragedy in his family life that might have contributed to it.

 

 

Wasn't Montez's brother killed a few years ago? That would have a profound impact on anyone. I'm really hoping he keeps working and becomes the star he is capable of being.

[Skinsinparadise]

38 minutes ago, UK Skins said:

 

Wasn't Montez's brother killed a few years ago? That would have a profound impact on anyone. I'm really hoping he keeps working and becomes the star he is capable of being.

 

Yes, that's a majot part of it.  I've heard it said he's really a different dude now versus before.

[SkinsGuy]

22 hours ago, HigSkin said:

CB Emmanuel Forbes, Washington Commanders | Projection: 50 tackles, five interceptions.

 

 

That would be a great rookie season for Forbes.