The Official 2023 ES Free Agency Thread... available until Free Agency 2024 begins

[Conn]

 

 

[DWinzit]

Brutal for Atlanta, Sweat,and Chicago lol. Great for Washington

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Not too brutal for Sweat.  He can play out his days in Chicago and head to ATL in the offseason.  The move from Chicago’s standpoint was a head scratcher to begin with being 2-6 and adding midseason help, at a premium cost.  
 

I think this move easily tops Rivera outbidding themselves for Wentz last offseason. 

[woodpecker]

@conn you forgot the second part where he calls us a loser culture. And maybe that’s fair, but we shouldn’t need to hear that from a Falcons fan??? I mean, didn’t we just go down there and beat them a couple weeks ago?

 

[philibusters]

Chicago has 110 million in cap space too so they are unlikely to get a comp pick.

 

On the other hand, Chicago has the cap space to pay top dollar for Sweat and may do so to justify the draft picks they gave up in this trade.  I think Sweat is in some ways a winner because he'll have the option of going to Atlanta after the season or if Chicago makes an offer to good to turn down, he can take that.

[Conn]

3 minutes ago, woodpecker said:

@conn you forgot the second part where he calls us a loser culture. And maybe that’s fair, but we shouldn’t need to hear that from a Falcons fan??? I mean, didn’t we just go down there and beat them a couple weeks ago?

 

That’s not really how I took that comment, although you are literally correct. We’re a bad team that Sweat was “escaping” and the Bears are even worse, he even says the Falcons could “possibly” not be a losing culture lol. I don’t think that’s meant as trash talk or a pointed criticism of us, it’s just the truth. 

[Warhead36]

We should have tried to squeeze Atlanta for a little bit more. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I saw where Sweat commented he wanted to weigh all his options before signing a deal.  🤣 if he bails on Chicago come January.  Chicago either has to make him a historic deal he can’t say no to or lose a high 2nd for 9 games in an already lost season.

They can tag him.

 

I don't feel that bad for Sweat no matter what.  I'm sure he wanted to go home, and it's unfortunate he won't be able to, at least for a year and a half.

 

But to compensate for that, he'll get ~$20m on the tag next year then get to go to Atlanta, if they still want him, and then they'll pay him more money.

 

I get it, it would have been better for him in Atlanta. 

 

I'm not crying for him going to Chicago, though.

 

29 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

We should have tried to squeeze Atlanta for a little bit more. 

I'm sure we did, and they probably said no.  Sweat is a really good, but not great player.  Frankly, a mid-3rd for 9 games escalating to a 2nd if they sign him to a LTD is about the right price.  

 

Chicago FO are just dumb.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Not too brutal for Sweat.  He can play out his days in Chicago and head to ATL in the offseason.  The move from Chicago’s standpoint was a head scratcher to begin with being 2-6 and adding midseason help, at a premium cost.  
 

I think this move easily tops Rivera outbidding themselves for Wentz last offseason. 

 

I listened to some national talk on this.  Keim if I recall, too.  the thought is the Bears if they must would franchise Sweat.

[MartinC]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Chicago Bears

 

They whiffed at the trade deadline a year ago, giving away what became the equivalent of a first-round pick for suspect wide receiver Chase Claypool, and did so again this year, trading a second-round pick for Washington Commanders defensive end Montez Sweat and not moving disgruntled cornerback Jaylon Johnson. Multiple general managers — who spoke on the condition of anonymity to be candid without damaging their ability to negotiate with teams in the future — complained that the Bears waited until effectively midnight to make Johnson available, minimizing the window to land him.

“[Bears General Manager Ryan] Poles f---ed it up again,” said one general manager who was in the cornerback market.

 

“You can’t wait until midnight and then tell everyone in the middle of the night, ‘Now he can seek a trade,’ ” said another general manager, “and then expect teams to compete to negotiate the deal and get to know the player and work something out with the agent. That should have happened two weeks ago.” Another executive who was in talks with Poles said: “He has a really difficult time under the clock. Personally, I don’t get what they did. That’s going to be, what, the 35th pick for Sweat?” Others also panned that deal.

“You can’t make that trade without having him signed,” the second general manager said. “Can you imagine what happens if Sweat gets hurt and they don’t have a deal? What’s the comp pick going to be then [if he leaves as a free agent]? I heard he was going to Atlanta for a [third-round pick] and then Poles swooped in and blew them away. I don’t get it.”

And with the Bears at 2-6, Sweat is unlikely to turn around another lost season.

 

“Doesn’t make sense for where Chicago is,” the first general manager said. “I’d have rather just traded [a third-round pick] for Chase Young” — the other Commanders edge rusher who went to the San Francisco 49ers at that price. “They should have been selling.”

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/11/01/nfl-trade-deadline-winners-losers/

 Interesting that there seems to have been a deal in principle to move Sweat to Atlanta for a 3rd round pick. Other ‘sources’ have been saying they would not have moved Sweat for less than a 2nd. I think that anything less than a 2nd would have been under valuing a very good DE.

[Skinsinparadise]

Hoffman talking about this some yesterday, how Ron is talking in the framework about the future.  Finlay discussed it with Hoffman, their combined takes is Rivera's whole sell is Sam, Sam, Sam.  I got you Sam, don't you want me to finish?

 

I think no shot that works.  But I don't get the impression that Ron has given up on his desire to stay.

 

 

 

[MartinC]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I listened to some national talk on this.  Keim if I recall, too.  the thought is the Bears if they must would franchise Sweat.

 If their GM wants to still be in a job this time next year he’d better.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 If their GM wants to still be in a job this time next year he’d better.

 

I think that's part of it, he needs to do it to save face.  So Montez is likely going to have to get used to Chicago for the time being.

 

Listening to Keim-Bram or maybe it was a different podcast, they are all starting to blend for me -- it was discussed that though this team wanted Sweat back there were reservations about him being worth the price tag which they felt was 25 million a year.

 

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Voice_of_Reason]

I want to point something out for all the "Hire a good GM and then let him hire the coach" folks who believe that's the 100% only way to go, and seem to think it works either all or a lot of the time.  

 

That's EXACTLY what the Bears did.  

 

They hired Ryan Poles, who had spent the previous 12 years in the Kansas City Chiefs organization, working for 3 different GMs, Any Reid, and eventually was promoted to Executive Director of Player Personnel. He was extremely qualified, had good pedigree, from a good organization, and was selected by an extensive search committee for the Bears who interviewed 13 candidates, based on the articles I just read.

 

Then Poles hired Eberflus, who was the DC at Indy for the previous 3 years under HC Frank Reicht.  

 

They've been bad on the field both years, haven't solved any significant roster problems, and were just fleeced because of their own stupidity on the Montez Sweat trade, and it will look even stupider if 'Tez decides not to sign a LTD this off-season.

 

There is no "one way" which works and guarantees success.  And just like there are a whole hell of a lot of bad coaches, there are a whole hell of a lot of bad GMs.  And most of the bad GMs were outstanding "Executive VP of Player Personnel's" or "Assistant GMs" or whatever the title was.  Just like almost all failed HCs were outstanding coordinators.

 

There is no one method which guarantees success.  Just like picking a QB, you kindof have to get a little lucky whichever direction you go.

[Darrell Green Fan]

22 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I want to point something out for all the "Hire a good GM and then let him hire the coach" folks who believe that's the 100% only way to go, and seem to think it works either all or a lot of the time.  

 

That's EXACTLY what the Bears did.  

 

They hired Ryan Poles, who had spent the previous 12 years in the Kansas City Chiefs organization, working for 3 different GMs, Any Reid, and eventually was promoted to Executive Director of Player Personnel. He was extremely qualified, had good pedigree, from a good organization, and was selected by an extensive search committee for the Bears who interviewed 13 candidates, based on the articles I just read.

 

Then Poles hired Eberflus, who was the DC at Indy for the previous 3 years under HC Frank Reicht.  

 

They've been bad on the field both years, haven't solved any significant roster problems, and were just fleeced because of their own stupidity on the Montez Sweat trade, and it will look even stupider if 'Tez decides not to sign a LTD this off-season.

 

There is no "one way" which works and guarantees success.  And just like there are a whole hell of a lot of bad coaches, there are a whole hell of a lot of bad GMs.  And most of the bad GMs were outstanding "Executive VP of Player Personnel's" or "Assistant GMs" or whatever the title was.  Just like almost all failed HCs were outstanding coordinators.

 

There is no one method which guarantees success.  Just like picking a QB, you kindof have to get a little lucky whichever direction you go.

 

I have thought about that too, just as I have thought about how the Giants have been trying to rebuild their OL for years and have shown that's not so easily done.  But like with Harris over Snyder the "hire a good GM" is no guarantee for success, it just gives us a chance which we never had with the old model.  

Edited November 2, 2023 by Darrell Green Fan

[Llevron]

Yea I mean if you are hiring someone for a leadership position that has never done it before....be it first time playcaller (EB) first time HC (Kyle Shanny) first time GM (Ozzy) you are taking a risk and hoping they are the person you think they are. 

 

Most cats are wrong. That's why if I had my way I would just pay some ridiculous amount of money to snatch a guy like Roseman or Lynch away. I would legit pay one of them 50 mil if that's what it took. The value has to outweigh the cost even then,  

[Chris 44]

32 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Hoffman talking about this some yesterday, how Ron is talking in the framework about the future.  Finlay discussed it with Hoffman, their combined takes is Rivera's whole sell is Sam, Sam, Sam.  I got you Sam, don't you want me to finish?

 

I think no shot that works.  But I don't get the impression that Ron has given up on his desire to stay.

 

 

 

I think someone on here mentioned this point the other day "Ron what did you have for lunch yesterday?"

"Well we have Sam, who we believe is a great prospect going forward".

 

He did the same thing yesterday when asked about the trades. Kinda weird and seems to be reaching for approval from Harris. Reporter asks about "Josh" and Rivera responds with "Mr. Harris", in and of itself not totally surprising to refer to Harris as Mr. but in the grand scheme of things it really seems like Ron is going out of his way to please the boss. Same with his recent conversion to "analytics" and how he now includes it in every press conference, probably couldnt spell it 6 months ago.

[rumplestilskin]

10 hours ago, RabidFan said:

Laron Landry can get Forbes all buffed out.

He better because I bet Forbes is waking up screaming every night having nightmares of A.J Brown tossing him around like a rag doll.

[MartinC]

43 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think that's part of it, he needs to do it to save face.  So Montez is likely going to have to get used to Chicago for the time being.

 

Listening to Keim-Bram or maybe it was a different podcast, they are all starting to blend for me -- it was discussed that though this team wanted Sweat back there were reservations about him being worth the price tag which they felt was 25 million a year.

 

I don’t think hes worth 25M+ a year either. He is a very good DE but I don’t think he’s an All Pro type elite level player.

 

43 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

There must be an NFL law somewhere that says Washington have to have a backup on the roster with the surname Laufenberg (flash backs to Babe - no one carried a clipboard better!)

37 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I want to point something out for all the "Hire a good GM and then let him hire the coach" folks who believe that's the 100% only way to go, and seem to think it works either all or a lot of the time.  

 

That's EXACTLY what the Bears did.  

 

They hired Ryan Poles, who had spent the previous 12 years in the Kansas City Chiefs organization, working for 3 different GMs, Any Reid, and eventually was promoted to Executive Director of Player Personnel. He was extremely qualified, had good pedigree, from a good organization, and was selected by an extensive search committee for the Bears who interviewed 13 candidates, based on the articles I just r

 

The thing about promoting people from number 2 roles to a number 1 role - is that you never know how they will do until they get the job. Being the final decision maker and the guy responsible for making sure there is a clear strategy that everyone is aligned with is a lot different to being the guy who recommends a decision and is part of delivering on a strategic vision and direction.

 

Hiring a good GM and let him hire his people (including the HC) is the way to go IMO. But it’s a lot easier said than done. I also agree with a point you have made that although the HC might report to the GM on the org structure that has to really be a partnership almost of equals. They need to be joined at the hip.

[FootballZombie]

Only way Sweat is a rental is if he gets hurt.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Yea I mean if you are hiring someone for a leadership position that has never done it before....be it first time playcaller (EB) first time HC (Kyle Shanny) first time GM (Ozzy) you are taking a risk and hoping they are the person you think they are. 

 

The thing I'm focusing on is him bringing in a GM from another field/discipline.

I think Elton Brand (former player) had like 2 years of managerial XP b4 being promoted to the big job w/ the 76ers.

If Harris follows a similar track here, almost anybody would be fair game, even those who's resume may not be the usual track to such a hire.

[Est.1974]

2 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Knowing they had an offer a 6th for Brissett and it was rejected was probably the right move. My take was a 5th would buy him. 

 

I would have liked a higher pick offer, however I think on balance we should have made that trade. Or maybe offer Brissett and our 7th rounder for a 5th back. Or Brissett and a 6th for a 4th back. Something like that. Feels like we could have been creative to net a decent mid round pick. 

[method man]

52 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I want to point something out for all the "Hire a good GM and then let him hire the coach" folks who believe that's the 100% only way to go, and seem to think it works either all or a lot of the time.  

 

That's EXACTLY what the Bears did.  

 

They hired Ryan Poles, who had spent the previous 12 years in the Kansas City Chiefs organization, working for 3 different GMs, Any Reid, and eventually was promoted to Executive Director of Player Personnel. He was extremely qualified, had good pedigree, from a good organization, and was selected by an extensive search committee for the Bears who interviewed 13 candidates, based on the articles I just read.

 

Then Poles hired Eberflus, who was the DC at Indy for the previous 3 years under HC Frank Reicht.  

 

They've been bad on the field both years, haven't solved any significant roster problems, and were just fleeced because of their own stupidity on the Montez Sweat trade, and it will look even stupider if 'Tez decides not to sign a LTD this off-season.

 

There is no "one way" which works and guarantees success.  And just like there are a whole hell of a lot of bad coaches, there are a whole hell of a lot of bad GMs.  And most of the bad GMs were outstanding "Executive VP of Player Personnel's" or "Assistant GMs" or whatever the title was.  Just like almost all failed HCs were outstanding coordinators.

 

There is no one method which guarantees success.  Just like picking a QB, you kindof have to get a little lucky whichever direction you go.

Weren’t coaching interviews already underway in KC when Poles was brought onboard? I seem to remember someone bringing that up to defend EB for why we he didn’t get the job despite Poles being a KC guy too

[Llevron]

3 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

The thing I'm focusing on is him bringing in a GM from another field/discipline.

I think Elton Brand (former player) had like 2 years of managerial XP b4 being promoted to the big job w/ the 76ers.

If Harris follows a similar track here, almost anybody would be fair game, even those who's resume may not be the usual track to such a hire.

 

I think that's what they are going to do. Its scary to me though honestly. My worry is I don't understand how being a General Manager of a football team coincides with other fields of management. I say I don't know meaning I truly have no knowledge not to mean I disagree with the idea. 

 

I think my biggest fear is that we don't have immediate success under whatever this new regime deems as its standard operating procedure. I worry very much that the fanbase is STILL out for blood, and the media will always be, and whoever is here wont get a legitimate chance to learn from their mistakes. So someone coming in that hasn't done it before will already be under a crazy microscope and as VoR says, will be out before they can ever really get started. And constant turnover....never seeing a plan to its end..... will never lead to anything. 

 

The biggest advantage this new group has is that they are not Dan Snyder and thus "Same old Redskins" doesn't exactly apply anymore. Until it does again. And if it ever does again I think we lose out on good free agents, good HC candidates and good management because of it. We just have to hit the group running imo. 

[woodpecker]

47 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I want to point something out for all the "Hire a good GM and then let him hire the coach" folks who believe that's the 100% only way to go, and seem to think it works either all or a lot of the time.  

 

That's EXACTLY what the Bears did.  

 

They hired Ryan Poles, who had spent the previous 12 years in the Kansas City Chiefs organization, working for 3 different GMs, Any Reid, and eventually was promoted to Executive Director of Player Personnel. He was extremely qualified, had good pedigree, from a good organization, and was selected by an extensive search committee for the Bears who interviewed 13 candidates, based on the articles I just read.

 

Then Poles hired Eberflus, who was the DC at Indy for the previous 3 years under HC Frank Reicht.  

 

They've been bad on the field both years, haven't solved any significant roster problems, and were just fleeced because of their own stupidity on the Montez Sweat trade, and it will look even stupider if 'Tez decides not to sign a LTD this off-season.

 

There is no "one way" which works and guarantees success.  And just like there are a whole hell of a lot of bad coaches, there are a whole hell of a lot of bad GMs.  And most of the bad GMs were outstanding "Executive VP of Player Personnel's" or "Assistant GMs" or whatever the title was.  Just like almost all failed HCs were outstanding coordinators.

 

There is no one method which guarantees success.  Just like picking a QB, you kindof have to get a little lucky whichever direction you go.

I don’t think anybody is saying it works all the time. It’s just that it has a better track record than anything else we’ve seen. Coach as GM has rarely worked well, if ever. “GM by committee“ even worse. Pedigree or not, the Bears just made a bad hire at GM. They’ll have to move on from him as soon as possible. Doesn’t mean having a GM run the show is a bad thing. Instead of the Bears, why don’t we talk about the Eagles, Ravens, Bills, 49ers and many other teams who are thriving under the leadership of good GM’s. 
Again, nobody’s disagreeing with you that there is more than one way to skin a cat. But some ways are better than others, and I think a great GM is exactly what we need to turn this franchise around—so we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

[Skinsinparadise]

27 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

I think someone on here mentioned this point the other day "Ron what did you have for lunch yesterday?"

"Well we have Sam, who we believe is a great prospect going forward".

 

He did the same thing yesterday when asked about the trades. Kinda weird and seems to be reaching for approval from Harris. Reporter asks about "Josh" and Rivera responds with "Mr. Harris", in and of itself not totally surprising to refer to Harris as Mr. but in the grand scheme of things it really seems like Ron is going out of his way to please the boss. Same with his recent conversion to "analytics" and how he now includes it in every press conference, probably couldnt spell it 6 months ago.

 

Yeah Hoffman was referencing in his press conference when Rivera was asked about the DEs he still pivoted to Howell.  As he said howell is like Rivera's human shield.

 

Finlay is now running a segment on the point about Rivera's pitch is all about Howell to an extreme