Game Day Thread - Minnesota at Washington ~ This one has everything....From A to Z :)

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I get your point but time of posession was basically neck and neck in a game that the defense was lights out and it shouldn't be so I'll reframe that part of my point that way.  

Agreed.  It shouldn’t have been close on TOP, or even score.  The defense played really well, the offense was atrocious.  The only reason they scored the long TD in the second half is the Back Judge leveled the safety and erased an almost sure fire interception.  
 

My only point is the TOP ended up not being relevant.  

[mistertim]

7 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

Th didn't play a good game today, but there's no possible way that HE is the blame for losing the game. If anyone actually believes that then they're dumber than dirt.

 

Reading some of these comments one would think TH was 11-47 passing. Maybe some should actually WATCH the game, watch the o-line collapsing on most every play; it wouldn't matter WHO was QB they wouldn't have faired much better. 

Did TH play a poor game? Well he did have the team up by what 10 points going into the 4th?  And the defense, with 3 LBers standing within 3 yds of each other, flat-footed in the middle of the field? WTF was that all about?

 

Ehh, go ahead and blame who you want, but overall it was a team effort in the loss, not just one person.

 

TH was a major factor in losing the game. He played poorly and he tossed an idiotic INT at the worst time.

 

And no, TH didn't have the team up by 10 points going into the 4th. He had them up by 3 and the officials + the inability of 3 Vikings DBs to catch what was essentially a punt from TH had Washington up by 10.

 

And can we stop with this nonsense of "oh, any QB would have done the same behind this line"? It's total crap and if anyone actually believes that a top flight NFL QB wouldn't have played better than TH then they're dumber than the dirt's stupid half-cousin who the dirt family never talks about.

Edited November 6, 2022 by mistertim

[veteranskinsfan]

I do not know why I keep watching these games.  Ron knows nothing about offense and he hired a college offensive coordinator.  On fourth and one he calls

a pass play when he could have had called a simple quarterback sneak.  Defense is playing better but they cannot be on the field the entire game.  Its not even Thanksgiving

yet and we are already looking out of it.

Ron still cannot get challenges right.  By losing that challenge we lost a timeout that we really needed at the end of the game. 

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, veteranskinsfan said:

I do not know why I keep watching these games.  Ron knows nothing about offense and he hired a college offensive coordinator.  On fourth and one he calls

a pass play when he could have had called a simple quarterback sneak.  Defense is playing better but they cannot be on the field the entire game.  Its not even Thanksgiving

yet and we are already looking out of it.

Ron still cannot get challenges right.  By losing that challenge we lost a timeout that we really needed at the end of the game. 

Calling Turner a college coordinator is an insult to college coordinators. Some of the most innovative offensive minds in football are coaching in college.

 

I'm not sure I'd trust Turner to coach a HS offense at this point.

[El Mexican]

1 hour ago, IrepDC said:

They set the tone for our offense getting bullied week in and week out at the line of scrimmage. 

 

What tone is that? An upward hill tone?

 

It's like every damn play the QB (Wentz or TH) is running for his life or curling into a ball getting sacked. 

4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

And can we stop with this nonsense of "oh, any QB would have done the same behind this line"? It's total crap and if anyone actually believes that a top flight NFL QB wouldn't have played better than TH then they're dumber than the dirt's stupid half-cousin who the dirt family never talks about.

 

No.

 

With this O-line even John Elway himself would suck. Our QBs are basically running for their lives or getting slammed on every passing down.

 

It's ridiculous. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

7 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

Th didn't play a good game today, but there's no possible way that HE is the blame for losing the game. If anyone actually believes that then they're dumber than dirt.

On the list of reasons why they lost today, it’s:

 

1. TH played like crap the entire game minus 4 plays and got massively lucky on one play where the official took out the player who was about to intercept the ball.

…

…

….

13. a dumb penalty which wiped out there chance at a game winning drive at the end of the game

14. Ron mismanaged the clock in the second half

15. Everything else.

 

Was TH the only reason? No.  Was he the biggest reason by a mile? Yes.  
 

Hell, it’s possible is Sam Elhinger was playing instead of TH they might have won the game.  It’s possible me 31 other starting QBs from this week, any one of them would have been better.  
 

He had 4 good plays.  4. And I’m being generous with the 4th on the TD to Milne.  That’s a throw literally ever QB, starter or backup, in the NFL should make.  And he made it.  That should go down as “expected” and I’m elevating it to Good.

 

He has plenty of awful plays including the INT which was abysmal.  

7 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Calling Turner a college coordinator is an insult to college coordinators. Some of the most innovative offensive minds in football are coaching in college.

 

I'm not sure I'd trust Turner to coach a HS offense at this point.

I really think you’re being hard on him.  He’s working with nothing at QB and finding yards and points in places where there are not yards or points.  

[IrepDC]

3 minutes ago, El Mexican said:

 

What tone is that? An upward hill tone?

 

It's like every damn play the QB (Wentz or TH) is running for his life or curling into a ball getting sacked. 

That's exactly the tone. It puts us at a disadvantage on every snap and it is demoralizing for the unit. Our receivers are nullified when the QB has no time to throw. The weak pass pro has been obvious, but our run blocking has been pitiful as well. Gibson and Robinson averaging 3 yards per carry on the season, and they fall forward for 2 yards on most of those. Our OL has become the biggest weakness on the team. In the NFL you are only as strong as your weakest unit many times, because teams are going to scheme to exploit whatever it is. Our OL has been easily exploitable from week 1 of the 2022 season.

[MrJL]

 

3 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

On the list of reasons why they lost today, it’s:

 

1. TH played like crap the entire game minus 4 plays and got massively lucky on one play where the official took out the player who was about to intercept the ball.

…

…

….

13. a dumb penalty which wiped out there chance at a game winning drive at the end of the game

14. Ron mismanaged the clock in the second half

15. Everything else.

 

Was TH the only reason? No.  Was he the biggest reason by a mile? Yes.  
 

Hell, it’s possible is Sam Elhinger was playing instead of TH they might have won the game.  It’s possible me 31 other starting QBs from this week, any one of them would have been better.  
 

He had 4 good plays.  4. And I’m being generous with the 4th on the TD to Milne.  That’s a throw literally ever QB, starter or backup, in the NFL should make.  And he made it.  That should go down as “expected” and I’m elevating it to Good.

 

He has plenty of awful plays including the INT which was abysmal.  

I really think you’re being hard on him.  He’s working with nothing at QB and finding yards and points in places where there are not yards or points.  

 

he's calling low percentage plays at bad times. for example,  Fourth down and 1, Heinicke throws a perfect pass, except the defender is able to knock it out of the receivers hands, which is always a danger.   

[NoCalMike]

19 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Agreed.  It shouldn’t have been close on TOP, or even score.  The defense played really well, the offense was atrocious.  The only reason they scored the long TD in the second half is the Back Judge leveled the safety and erased an almost sure fire interception.  
 

My only point is the TOP ended up not being relevant.  

 

TOP has become an irrelevant stat when Heinicke is the QB because he leads a lot of long drives that go a total of 60-70 yards but don't end up with points.  That is what happens when you have a QB who lacks the intangibles.  When the field gets smaller, it goes into a shell and that seems to be a constant with Heinicke.  It is also why Heinicke mistakes and/or turnovers are so much more devastating.  How many other QBs in the league do you see where they make a bad pass or throw a pick on one drive, then the next drive they comeback and hit a quick strike 5 play 80 yard scoring drive.  You don't get those with Heinicke.  People can like his heart and guts, and cheer the guy when he has a good game, but they can't let it blind them to the fact that he isn't a starting caliber QB in the NFL.

[mistertim]

14 minutes ago, El Mexican said:

No.

 

With this O-line even John Elway himself would suck. Our QBs are basically running for their lives or getting slammed on every passing down.

 

It's ridiculous. 

 

What's at least as ridiculous is the flat out excuse making for anything Heinicke does, no matter how bad. He's not legit starting NFL QB and that places severe limits on what he can do, even when he has time. Our OL isn't good but there were plenty of plays today where TH was fine on time in the pocket and still didn't make the most of it.

 

Our QB sucks, Our OL sucks. Those two can both be true at the same time. There's no way we would still be this stagnant on offense if we suddenly inserted an upper echelon QB into our lineup. So let's just please stop with that hot garbage.

 

Heinicke isn't good and we'll likely be looking for another QB this coming offseason. TH is a completely known quantity. There's nothing new he'll be showing us. So when Wentz is healed IMO they either let him go again and see if he improves on his earlier struggles or they put Howell in to try and evaluate him to see if he could be a diamond in the rough.

 

We're not going to the playoffs. Ain't happening. Might as well move towards seeing if one of those two guys can actually do anything.

[Reaper Skins]

Meh.

 

If we had more than 12 seconds to go down the field I think we could have gotten a FG to tie it.  They showed a stat saying Heineke has led like 4 or 5 4th quarter game winning drives?  In what 11 starts?

 

Yes he doesn't play great for a whole game, but we got robbed of the chance to see him at the end of the game, which, love him or hate him, is when he's been the most effective.

 

He usually throws one bone head ball a game.  He also usually makes up for it later on.  He didn't get the chance to do so this week.

 

I don't feel any different about him after this week than I did going in.  He plays exciting but ugly football.  And gives us a chance to win ugly if his teammates rally for him

Edited November 6, 2022 by Reaper Skins

[88Comrade2000]

There’s no point getting upset about the loss or future losses.

 

Hope is on the horizon with the pending ownership change. 
 

That’s the only thing making today’s loss palatable.

 

Come 2024 we will have new people and a lot of the roster the new owner inherits will be gone.

[NoCalMike]

27 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

 

 

And can we stop with this nonsense of "oh, any QB would have done the same behind this line"? It's total crap and if anyone actually believes that a top flight NFL QB wouldn't have played better than TH then they're dumber than the dirt's stupid half-cousin who the dirt family never talks about.

 

Whoever is trying to make the argument that it is on the O-line, should rewatch the game paying attention to Cousins. I am not big on Cousins, feel he is the definition of a middle of the road QB, but if you look at the game today, he was getting knocked around constantly, he didn't take a ton of sacks, but he was getting brutalized just as he released the ball or in the act of throwing so many times, but the main difference between him and a guy like Heinicke is the few times he got a clean pocket, he was making throws downfield, he never stopped looking to make those plays.  You need a QB that can do that, and am not talking about Heaving up a prayer into quadruple coverage.  There is way too much lacking from Heinicke's toolbox to make up for the few good plays a game he manages to make. 

[dunfer]

47 minutes ago, petey hodge said:

In all of my collective man-years of watching NFL and college FB, I have never seen a personal foul penalty against the center that basically salts a game away.  
 

There could only be one Snakebitten Team who is worthy enough for such an unprecedented omen…..

 

go ahead and guess.  I’ll wait

Skins and now the manders

[MrJL]

34 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

TH was a major factor in losing the game. He played poorly and he tossed an idiotic INT at the worst time.

 

And no, TH didn't have the team up by 10 points going into the 4th. He had them up by 3 and the officials + the inability of 3 Vikings DBs to catch what was essentially a punt from TH had Washington up by 10.

 

And can we stop with this nonsense of "oh, any QB would have done the same behind this line"? It's total crap and if anyone actually believes that a top flight NFL QB wouldn't have played better than TH then they're dumber than the dirt's stupid half-cousin who the dirt family never talks about.

 

Did Cousins have a good game today?  Because with  pick six called back from a play that involved both fighting, and him taking plenty of hits it seemed pretty similar.  Like I saw one person say Taylor played a D- game.  I can only accept that if Cousins had a C- game at best

[tomwvr]

37 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

TH was a major factor in losing the game. He played poorly and he tossed an idiotic INT at the worst time.

 

And no, TH didn't have the team up by 10 points going into the 4th. He had them up by 3 and the officials + the inability of 3 Vikings DBs to catch what was essentially a punt from TH had Washington up by 10.

 

And can we stop with this nonsense of "oh, any QB would have done the same behind this line"? It's total crap and if anyone actually believes that a top flight NFL QB wouldn't have played better than TH then they're dumber than the dirt's stupid half-cousin who the dirt family never talks about.

Look a GB their oline is awful as bad as ours and look at what their hall of fame qb is doing. Qb play has alot to do with the oline and wentz in my opinion would be doing no better

2 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

Did Cousins have a good game today?  Because with  pick six called back from a play that involved both fighting, and him taking plenty of hits it seemed pretty similar.  Like I saw one person say Taylor played a D- game.  I can only accept that if Cousins had a C- game at best

Have we had 2 or 3 pick sixes called back this season?

[Capsman]

25 minutes ago, El Mexican said:

 

What tone is that? An upward hill tone?

 

It's like every damn play the QB (Wentz or TH) is running for his life or curling into a ball getting sacked. 

 

No.

 

With this O-line even John Elway himself would suck. Our QBs are basically running for their lives or getting slammed on every passing down.

 

It's ridiculous. 

I’m sorry but that is not true.  Heinicke did have some pressure on him but Cousins had more. Cousins was completing passes 20 yards downfield with guys in his face. Heinicke had plenty of time on a lot of plays and either couldn’t find anyone, saw guys but didn’t trust his arm, or failed to hit receivers 20 yards downfield (which is his norm, it’s a crapshoot on those passes).  
 

Unless he has perfect conditions and can step up into his passes (to use that new hip action he was talking about), he’s got nothing.   

5 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

Did Cousins have a good game today?  Because with  pick six called back from a play that involved both fighting, and him taking plenty of hits it seemed pretty similar.  Like I saw one person say Taylor played a D- game.  I can only accept that if Cousins had a C- game at best

Cousins was infinitely better than Heinicke and under even more pressure.  

[MrJL]

2 minutes ago, Capsman said:

I’m sorry but that is not true.  Heinicke did have some pressure on him but Cousins had more. Cousins was completing passes 20 yards downfield with guys in his face. Heinicke had plenty of time on a lot of plays and either couldn’t find anyone, saw guys but didn’t trust his arm, or failed to hit receivers 20 yards downfield (which is his norm, it’s a crapshoot on those passes).  
 

Unless he has perfect conditions and can step up into his passes (to use that new hip action he was talking about), he’s got nothing.   

Cousins was infinitely better than Heinicke and under even more pressure.  

 

Cousins doesn't deserve credit for the win, but if they'd lost he'd have deserved the blame for the loss, so I disagree.  Two other things. Heincike is shorter than Cousins, and had several more passes batted down, so that might have contributed to not finding people

[dunfer]

6 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

Whoever is trying to make the argument that it is on the O-line, should rewatch the game paying attention to Cousins. I am not big on Cousins, feel he is the definition of a middle of the road QB, but if you look at the game today, he was getting knocked around constantly, he didn't take a ton of sacks, but he was getting brutalized just as he released the ball or in the act of throwing so many times, but the main difference between him and a guy like Heinicke is the few times he got a clean pocket, he was making throws downfield, he never stopped looking to make those plays.  You need a QB that can do that, and am not talking about Heaving up a prayer into quadruple coverage.  There is way too much lacking from Heinicke's toolbox to make up for the few good plays a game he manages to make. 

I wouldve paid kirk. Taylor will never be a franchise qb in the nfl. I hope nobody is arguing that. our qb situation is a weakness. but our oline is the most neglected part of the team under rivera

[IrepDC]

The OL and QB blame are both valid. They are both obvious. Our other units played well enough to win this game.

[wit33]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

In fairness, they tried to also which is why they went out and put up a big neon sign they needed a QB.  They got somewhat unlucky they needed a QB when the draft was devoid of starting QBs. 
 

I don’t think Ron or Scott wants to play the game this way.  But they have no choice with TH at center.

 

And because he tries hard and has moxie, instead of recognizing they could not go through a season with him playing and releasing him and looking for a better backup QB and starting QB, they kept him.

 

And I was ok with that only because they already had a QB room who only had one QB who knew the system.  Going into a season with having all your QBs learning the system is dangerous.

 

At this point, I never want to see him on the field again.  I get we’ll see him at least once more.  But once he goes back to the bench, he should stay there and then not be re-signed.  

It was clear as day to me they were headed sane direction with Wentz before his injury. He was going to be relegated to similar role we are witnessing with Heineke. You don’t pay 13% of the cap for this type of QB—it’s often a mediocre model chosen by coaches and FOs to maintain million dollar and 6 figure salaries. I’m actually okay with this kind of QB while looking for a Mahomes or Allen, but you must pay them 3-6% of the cap. Be the team to pay Tannenhill 10-15mil next year and draft a 1st round QB. 

[Capsman]

2 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

Cousins doesn't deserve credit for the win, but if they'd lost he'd have deserved the blame for the loss, so I disagree.  Two other things. Heincike is shorter than Cousins, and had several more passes batted down, so that might have contributed to not finding people

So he’s a shorter QB with a noodle arm.  Perfect.
 

He also has the benefit of a rushing attack averaging 4.6 you.  He’s got 2 pretty good WRs and pretty good pass catching RBs. He had much better support than Cousins did.  
 

Was he under pressure on his INT?  No he wasn’t. His height and the fact that he has the arm talent of an average HS QB limit him.  He has to get air under the ball for anything more than like 15yard so they don’t end up in the dirt.  When you have to throw 25 yard passes with the umph other guys throw 40 yarders, your accuracy will suffer.  Just because Wentz, in a new system, was freezing doesn’t make Heinicke a viable QB option.  He was a freaking XFL backup for a reason.  You think other GMs are all stupid?  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

16 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

Did Cousins have a good game today?  Because with  pick six called back from a play that involved both fighting, and him taking plenty of hits it seemed pretty similar.  Like I saw one person say Taylor played a D- game.  I can only accept that if Cousins had a C- game at best

You can’t be serious.  Cousins was getting rag dolled and facing heat on the majority of snaps after they lost their center.  He completed pass after pass, knowing he was going to get obliterated by Daron Payne.

 

He wasn’t great today, but good god almighty you need to put the sauce down.

[Capsman]

1 minute ago, wit33 said:

It was clear as day to me they were headed sane direction with Wentz before his injury. He was going to be relegated to similar role we are witnessing with Heineke. You don’t pay 13% of the cap for this type of QB—it’s often a mediocre model chosen by coaches and FOs to maintain million dollar and 6 figure salaries. I’m actually okay with this kind of QB while looking for a Mahomes or Allen, but you must pay them 3-6% of the cap. Be the team to pay Tannenhill 10-15mil next year and draft a 1st round QB. 

Unless this D gives up under 14 for the rest of the season, we are not going to the playoffs with Heinicke. I would see what you have with Howell. 

 

Of course the only problem is that Heinicke has people drinking Kool Aid because of that Tampa playoff game, including teammates. 

[mistertim]

14 minutes ago, tomwvr said:

Look a GB their oline is awful as bad as ours and look at what their hall of fame qb is doing. Qb play has alot to do with the oline and wentz in my opinion would be doing no better

 

 

I want you to come out and say "If we had Aaron Rodgers we wouldn't be a better offense than with Taylor Heinicke"

 

I just want to hear you say it.