The Official ES (or E...C) 2022 Free Agency Thread Signed G Andrew Norwell, Obada, Trai Turner...Goodbye Scherff, Kyle Allen, Tim Settle

[kingdaddy]

Titans just cut starting left tackle Taylor Lewan....3 time pro bowler, age 32. Coming off an injury that limited him to 2 games this past season. Take a flyer?

[method man]

7 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Titans just cut starting left tackle Taylor Lewan....3 time pro bowler, age 32. Coming off an injury that limited him to 2 games this past season. Take a flyer?

Nope. He can’t stay healthy. He’s cooked

[JamesMadisonSkins]

7 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Titans just cut starting left tackle Taylor Lewan....3 time pro bowler, age 32. Coming off an injury that limited him to 2 games this past season. Take a flyer?

 

I heard retirement might be in the cards for him? I'd prefer to go younger at LT. If we spend big in FA I'd want young, long-term building block

[method man]

Randy Bullock was one of the veterans let go by Tennessee. He would be a a bit of an upgrade to Slye. Bullock is low to mid 80s % kicker on FGs but he does not miss XPs like Slye does

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[moondog]

8 hours ago, KDawg said:

I’m not sure I would. If Howell and Fields came out the same year I, personally, would have had Howell rated over him I think, but I loved both prospects.

 

A scenario I could see where it kind of makes sense (aside from the fact that Howell is much better as a passer and can also run a little and we have good receivers) is if we somehow trade Payne/Sweat and recoup assets in this year’s draft to improve the supporting class.

 

But I’d do that anyways to improve the O around Howell.

Are you interested in tagging and trading Payne if it’s for a first next year so as to build the kind of equity and flexibility the eagles have going forward to move around in the draft and have cap flexibility?

[JamesMadisonSkins]

39 minutes ago, moondog said:

Are you interested in tagging and trading Payne if it’s for a first next year so as to build the kind of equity and flexibility the eagles have going forward to move around in the draft and have cap flexibility?

Probably. But I would want a mid rounder this year preferably. I don’t think this staff would do that. If anything they’d want capital this year to improve since next year is far from guaranteed (my biggest fear in accumulating capital for a run at QB next year if Howell bombs, this staff won’t prioritize that knowing it’s win now)

 

Logan Paulson was on Grant and Danny today. He said he heard they could tag and trade and that people he’s talked to around the league think Payne could get a 1st back. G&D then had a lengthy discussion about hypotheticals and both said they’d take a 2&4 for Payne knowing that $19m and extra picks could go to rounding out the team and particularly the OL and having spent a 2 on Mathis and found a diamond in Ridgeway and having Sweat and Young impending. 
 

Both agreed a tag is most likely and that this regime won’t do what they would personally do because they need to win now and Payne in 2023 is more valuable to them than fans, or long term entrenched FO’s who’s see the long view and want the picks and long term cap flexibility 

Edited February 23, 2023 by JamesMadisonSkins

[Jericho]

8 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Terrible is a massive stretch. He ran for 1200 yards and 11 TDs last year. Yes, he didn't throw much. Especially early in the season. But he also had no OL and no weapons. They leaned into the running game. But he did show, per many film breakdowns, strong development throwing the ball. 

 

Well he did QB the worst team in the league, that has to count for something. You can say Fields has upside, and there's some truth to that. But upside doesn't mean one is good now and not many good QBs end up on the worst team in football, no matter the supporting cast. I think that's the main issue with valuing Fields. You're basically trading for two years of a QB who hasn't been particularly good. You're trading on hope and you only get two years for him to figure it out or else you need to start paying big money. It seems more fficient to simply draft a QB and take your chances.

[CTskin]

59 minutes ago, moondog said:

Are you interested in tagging and trading Payne if it’s for a first next year so as to build the kind of equity and flexibility the eagles have going forward to move around in the draft and have cap flexibility?

Coming off his best season and proving to be a top tier DL, this would be a great option if he’s not in the plans for the future. I’d prefer to tag and work something out long term before July, but we just CAN NOT have option C… the walking away for free thing. 

[Jericho]

8 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Here's a question ...

 

Would you rather have LT Orlando Brown, Jr. (27 years old) or DT Daron Payne (26 years old).

 

Trade Payne for a 1st and use that $$ to sign Orlando Brown

 

Or to go another step ... Brown signing = Leno cutting ($8m savings)

 

LT Brown + $28m in cap space + 1/1/2/3/4 picks in the first 4 rounds ... Or Payne tagged and heading into FA with $14m

 

Spotrac has Brown getting a $22m per year contract while Payne gets $19m per year. That's close enough to me to ask either/or

 

Of course there is a world where we could do both. Extend Payne and sign Brown, both with hits around $12-13m in 2023. Cut Leno to save $8m and your remaining cap would be about $15m. Not a ton of $$, but you could get creative elsewhere if you needed/wanted to bring in another splashy FA. 

 

 

 

I'd rather have Brown, but I think the question is moot. I don't think Brown really hits unrestricted free agency (he'll be tagged or signed), and even if Brown somehow did I doubt he signs here.

[philibusters]

8 hours ago, Jericho said:

 

I'd rather have Brown, but I think the question is moot. I don't think Brown really hits unrestricted free agency (he'll be tagged or signed), and even if Brown somehow did I doubt he signs here.

 

 

He might be franchised tagged, but it would be his second year in a row that he was franchised tagged so he would earn 20 million.  That is not ridiculous so the Chiefs may do that, but its not cheap either so there is at least a possibility they let him hit free agency.  The talk last year was that the Chiefs and Brown were not close on a contract.  Brown wanted to be the highest paid Tackle in the NFL at like 22 million a year and the Chiefs were more in the 17 million per year range.   That is where it gets tricky.   Brown is a  good player, but he hasn't been a top 5 LT in the league in any season he has played in the NFL.  Arguably a good comparison for Brown in terms of PFF grades in Brandon Scherff.  Scheff had one very good year where he was over 80, but other than that was very solid consistently (mid to high 70's) but he did that for 6 or 7 seasons in a row (with the one year over 80 thrown in).  Brown has been  a model of consistency, last three years he had a pair of 76's and one 75 and the year before that a 73..   He would be a little younger and arguably a little better than Leno (though over the past two years Leno PFF grades average out to Brown as Leno was a 80 in 2021 and a 71 in 2022).

 

I like Nate Davis a lot more because I think you will get better value.  At Tackle, I think Kaleb McGary, Mike McGlinchey, and Jawaan Taylor will all be significantly cheaper than Brown.  Of them McGary was flat out better than Brown in 2022.  However, 2022 was abnormal year for McGary.  In his first three years nothing about McGary's play said anything above a serviceable starter until this past year (his PFF grades in his first three years were 53, 64, and 62 before an 86 this past year).  So you are betting on a small sample size with McGary and hoping he doesnt' regress back to the mean, but he was better than Brown in 2022 and will be cheaper.  McGlinchey has a low of 69 and a high of a 79 PFF grade in his 5 seasons since entering the league.  Another fairly consistent guy, but a bit cheaper than Brown.  Jawaan Taylor is a serviceable starter, probably that is it as he as his range seems to be high 50s to mid 60s in PFF.

 

Long story short, with Orlando Brown you are getting a Brandon Scherff type player--very consistently good, but never elite.  He is unlikely to bust, but giving him 22 or 23 million and making him one of the top 2 to 3 (if not 1) paid Tackle in the league does seem a bit of an overpaid and that what he was looking for and that is why the Chiefs and he were so far apart last year.

I also think people are undervaluing Leno.  Granted Leno will be fairly expensive this season (12.5 million) of which 8 million could be saved by cutting him, but the last two seasons he has given us solid play (80 PFF grade in 2021 and 71 in 2022).  He is 31 years old and may be on the decline, but if he plays like he did in 2022 at 12.5 million he is not bad value and if he is plays like he did in 2021 at 12.5 million a year he actually solid value.

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, philibusters said:

 

 

He might be franchised tagged, but it would be his second year in a row that he was franchised tagged so he would earn 20 million.  That is not ridiculous so the Chiefs may do that, but its not cheap either so there is at least a possibility they let him hit free agency.  The talk last year was that the Chiefs and Brown were not close on a contract.  Brown wanted to be the highest paid Tackle in the NFL at like 22 million a year and the Chiefs were more in the 17 million per year range.   That is where it gets tricky.   Brown is a  good player, but he hasn't been a top 5 LT in the league in any season he has played in the NFL.  Arguably a good comparison for Brown in terms of PFF grades in Brandon Scherff.  Scheff had one very good year where he was over 80, but other than that was very solid consistently (mid to high 70's) but he did that for 6 or 7 seasons in a row (with the one year over 80 thrown in).  Brown has been  a model of consistency, last three years he had a pair of 76's and one 75 and the year before that a 73..   He would be a little younger and arguably a little better than Leno (though over the past two years Leno PFF grades average out to Brown as Leno was a 80 in 2021 and a 71 in 2022).

 

I like Nate Davis a lot more because I think you will get better value.  At Tackle, I think Kaleb McGary, Mike McGlinchey, and Jawaan Taylor will all be significantly cheaper than Brown.  Of them McGary was flat out better than Brown in 2022.  However, 2022 was abnormal year for McGary.  In his first three years nothing about McGary's play said anything above a serviceable starter until this past year (his PFF grades in his first three years were 53, 64, and 62 before an 86 this past year).  So you are betting on a small sample size with McGary and hoping he doesnt' regress back to the mean, but he was better than Brown in 2022 and will be cheaper.  McGlinchey has a low of 69 and a high of a 79 PFF grade in his 5 seasons since entering the league.  Another fairly consistent guy, but a bit cheaper than Brown.  Jawaan Taylor is a serviceable starter, probably that is it as he as his range seems to be high 50s to mid 60s in PFF.

 

Long story short, with Orlando Brown you are getting a Brandon Scherff type player--very consistently good, but never elite.  He is unlikely to bust, but giving him 22 or 23 million and making him one of the top 2 to 3 (if not 1) paid Tackle in the league does seem a bit of an overpaid and that what he was looking for and that is why the Chiefs and he were so far apart last year.

I also think people are undervaluing Leno.  Granted Leno will be fairly expensive this season (12.5 million) of which 8 million could be saved by cutting him, but the last two seasons he has given us solid play (80 PFF grade in 2021 and 71 in 2022).  He is 31 years old and may be on the decline, but if he plays like he did in 2022 at 12.5 million he is not bad value and if he is plays like he did in 2021 at 12.5 million a year he actually solid value.

 

I don't think Leno is great. But he isn't the problem up front. With our list of needs, as this offseason progresses, I think he is probably someone that needs to be kept. We need a guard and a right tackle. Center most likely as well.

 

Center can be gotten in the draft. Wouldn't spend cap dollars there. 

 

Landing a guard or RT in FA frees the draft up for Michael Mayer, CB, OT, etc.

 

Trading some assets (like Payne or Sweat) would give us further flexibility. 

[DWinzit]

48 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I don't think Leno is great. But he isn't the problem up front. With our list of needs, as this offseason progresses, I think he is probably someone that needs to be kept. We need a guard and a right tackle. Center most likely as well.

 

Center can be gotten in the draft. Wouldn't spend cap dollars there. 

 

Landing a guard or RT in FA frees the draft up for Michael Mayer, CB, OT, etc.

 

Trading some assets (like Payne or Sweat) would give us further flexibility. 

I continue to look at the RT spot key to the draft and agree with your view. RT is the first spot I am addressing in FA. The caveat would be with whatever new implementation will take place with EB. Maybe it will be determined Cosmi is good at RT as long as there is a RG stud and TE chips.

 

I also on board with Leno being one of the only good players on the line but love the idea of upgrading if it also loosens up other areas

[HigSkin]

McGlinchey would be expensive but a great "get" at right tackle.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/mike-mcglinchey-25104/market-value/

 

 

 

https://riggosrag.com/2023/02/20/4-free-agents-eric-bieniemy-commanders-2023/3/

 

Although the prospect of further reinforcements cannot be dismissed, the Commanders and Eric Bieniemy must do everything in their power to ensure Howell can make a positive go of things. With any successful offense around the NFL, that all starts upfront.

 

Fortunately for the Commanders, there are a number of routes they can take. If Mike McGlinchey was on the market at any stage, it’s a potential option.

 

McGlinchey might not have reached the heights of a top-10 draft pick. But his production against the pass and on running downs last season was far superior to anything Washington put on the edge last season.

 

With just $8 million in salary-cap space and plenty of mouths to feed next spring, the San Francisco 49ers might decide to move on from McGlinchey. Something that should interest the Commanders if the money works for all parties.

Edited February 23, 2023 by HigSkin

[mhd24]

54 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

McGlinchey would be expensive but a great "get" at right tackle.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/mike-mcglinchey-25104/market-value/

 

 

 

https://riggosrag.com/2023/02/20/4-free-agents-eric-bieniemy-commanders-2023/3/

 

Although the prospect of further reinforcements cannot be dismissed, the Commanders and Eric Bieniemy must do everything in their power to ensure Howell can make a positive go of things. With any successful offense around the NFL, that all starts upfront.

 

Fortunately for the Commanders, there are a number of routes they can take. If Mike McGlinchey was on the market at any stage, it’s a potential option.

 

McGlinchey might not have reached the heights of a top-10 draft pick. But his production against the pass and on running downs last season was far superior to anything Washington put on the edge last season.

 

With just $8 million in salary-cap space and plenty of mouths to feed next spring, the San Francisco 49ers might decide to move on from McGlinchey. Something that should interest the Commanders if the money works for all parties.

 

Heck no!  Anytime you watch him, he sucks at pass pro.  49ers fans will tell you the same.  Sweat dominated him two years ago in the game in Arizona.  If we targeting RT in FA, I'll look at Taylor from the Jags.  I want nothing to do with McGlinchey.

[HigSkin]

28 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

Heck no!  Anytime you watch him, he sucks at pass pro.  49ers fans will tell you the same.  Sweat dominated him two years ago in the game in Arizona.  If we targeting RT in FA, I'll look at Taylor from the Jags.  I want nothing to do with McGlinchey.

 

I find it interesting that Taylor's 2022 PFF grade is 58.7 and McGlinchey's PFF is 71.5

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I only lean toward Orlando Brown because Bieniemy is familiar with his style. If he fits what EB wants in an OL I could see him going and getting him if he's available, that's all.

 

By cutting Charles Leno you free up $8m this year and $12m in 2024. If Orlando Brown had cap hits of $14m and $18m in those first two years of his contract, you're essentially paying him $6m more the next 2 years than you already have on the books for Leno. Is his play at LT worth $6m more in investment? I would argue yes. But I also acknowledge that there are cheaper ways (draft) to replace Leno.

 

One option would be to draft an OT at pick #16. Have them play RT in 2023 and hopefully slide to LT in 2024 when you cut/move on from Charles Leno. You could spend $$ on an LG this off-season. Nate Davis plays RG, so not sure how that would fit with the plan since presumably Cosmi would play RG rather than RT. But having pieces is a good start and then you can let your coaches decide how they fit short and long-term.

 

If you drafted an OT at #16 and a Center in the 3rd, you could roll with Leno - FA Guard - Roullier - Cosmi - Rookie RT in 2023 and figure out where to go from there. You could move on from Leno and Rouillier in 2024, slide the rookies in at LT and Center, and figure out RT in 2024 assuming Cosmi succeeds at RG. 

Edited February 23, 2023 by JamesMadisonSkins

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I only lean toward Orlando Brown because Bieniemy is familiar with his style. If he fits what EB wants in an OL I could see him going and getting him if he's available, that's all.

 

By cutting Charles Leno you free up $8m this year and $12m in 2024. If Orlando Brown had cap hits of $14m and $18m in those first two years of his contract, you're essentially paying him $6m more the next 2 years than you already have on the books for Leno. Is his play at LT worth $6m more in investment? I would argue yes. But I also acknowledge that there are cheaper ways (draft) to replace Leno.

 

One option would be to draft an OT at pick #16. Have them play RT in 2023 and hopefully slide to LT in 2024 when you cut/move on from Charles Leno. You could spend $$ on an LG this off-season. Nate Davis plays RG, so not sure how that would fit with the plan since presumably Cosmi would play RG rather than RT. But having pieces is a good start and then you can let your coaches decide how they fit short and long-term.

 

If you drafted an OT at #16 and a Center in the 3rd, you could roll with Leno - FA Guard - Roullier - Cosmi - Rookie RT in 2023 and figure out where to go from there. You could move on from Leno and Rouillier in 2024, slide the rookies in at LT and Center, and figure out RT in 2024 assuming Cosmi succeeds at RG. 

 

If we can get Orlando Brown, I'd do it. Not sure we can get him both because of money, situation, etc.

 

But he does require outright cutting Leno...

 

UNLESS... Leno can play RT. I don't know if he can.

 

But if he could that would be huge. I'd let Payne walk or trade him as quick as possible on the tag if we could get Brown AND Leno could play RT. If Leno can't, Payne is still up in the air but Leno would need to go for that to work. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

15 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

If we can get Orlando Brown, I'd do it. Not sure we can get him both because of money, situation, etc.

 

But he does require outright cutting Leno...

 

UNLESS... Leno can play RT. I don't know if he can.

 

But if he could that would be huge. I'd let Payne walk or trade him as quick as possible on the tag if we could get Brown AND Leno could play RT. If Leno can't, Payne is still up in the air but Leno would need to go for that to work. 

 

I think my ideal dream scenario would be:

1. Tag and trade Payne for a 2nd and 4th

2. Sign Orlando Brown in FA to play LT

3. Release Charles Leno and save $8m in 2023 and $12m in 2024

 

Depending on how FA shakes out (could get a LB and a RG with excess money) ... target OT, C, G, LB, CB with picks 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 4

 

Cutting Leno and Wentz and tagging and trading Payne would give us about $42m going into FA. That's plenty of $$ to get Orlando Brown ($14-15m Year 1 cap hit) and another 1-2 key free agents on the OL or at LB. Not to mention having 6 picks in the first 4 rounds to fill out depth and plug additional holes not addressed in FA. We'd probably carry quite a bit of money over to 2024 (where we already have a ton of $$ but will need to sign Sweat/Chase/Curl) to really make moves if the Howell experiment pays off.

 

Per OTC, doing the above (Brown on a 5 year $104m deal) and cutting Leno, trading Payne ... here's how our cap would look with just those moves ...

 

2023: $28m in cap space

2024: $123m in cap space ($133m if you cut Roullier in 2024)

2025: $196m in cap space

2026: $278m in cap space

 

So plenty of room to sign a couple more FAs and even backloading the deals into 2024-2026

 

There's a couple other signings that would result in cuts that would even mitigate the 2023 cap impacts. Signing a top LG would probably mean Norwell gets cut (would save $3m in 2023 so a delta of maybe $3-5m net more on the books for a premier LG with a lower Year 1 hit)

 

Signing Gesicki with a $6m 2023 cap hit would basically me +$1m on the books since we'd likely cut Logan Thomas (saving $5m in 2023 and $8m in 2024)

Edited February 23, 2023 by JamesMadisonSkins

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I know Nate Davis plays RG but since his name has been tossed around, I'll use him as an example even though Norwell is a LG ...

• Sign Orlando Brown ($15m hit in 2023 and $18m in 2024) and cut Charles Leno (saves $8m in 2023 and $12m in 2024) - Net addition of $6m in 2023 and $6m in 2024
• Sign Nate Davis ($6m cap hit in 2023 and $8m cap hit in 2024) and cut Andrew Norwell (saves $2.5m in 2023, none in 2024 being off books already) - Net $4m in 2023 and $8m in 2024
• Sign Mike Gesicki ($6m cap hit in 2023 and $7m cap hit in 2024) and cut Logan Thomas (saves $5m in 2023 and $8m in 2024) - Net $1m in 2023 and gain $1m in 2024

 

Combined = net addition of $11m in 2023 and $15m in 2024

 

With those 3 additions/subtractions you'd have remaining:

• 2023: $22m still available
• 2024: $118m still available (with Curl, Sweat, Young being off books in 2024 completely at this stage)

 

Linebacker:

• Unless we choose to draft Holcomb's replacement early, we'll need to either bring Holcomb back or replace him with a Free Agent. So that + QB and other depth signings would obv. eat into the 2023 cap. But you'd have $12m to play with if you wanted to go this route (leaving $10m for draft picks and in-season maneuvering) ... although others have pointed out you could easily restructure a few contracts (Fuller, Samuel) to get additional space IF you wanted to. I argue you wouldn't need to ... because if you tag and trade Payne for a 2 and 4, having picks 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 4 would give you plenty of opportunity to add cheap talent at CB, LB and OL and elsewhere and not feel the need to keep spending in FA beyond Orlando Brown, Nate Davis and Mike Gesicki (in this hypothetical at least)

Edited February 23, 2023 by JamesMadisonSkins

[Conn]

Just don’t know how active you can expect us to be in FA this year. We weren’t at all last year and that was with Snyder planning on being here forever. Now he’s on his way out, idk that we’ll have the ability to pay out large signing bonuses. Might have to wait for next offseason 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Conn said:

Just don’t know how active you can expect us to be in FA this year. We weren’t at all last year and that was with Snyder planning on being here forever. Now he’s on his way out, idk that we’ll have the ability to pay out large signing bonuses. Might have to wait for next offseason 

Totally agree. Which is why I think all plans have to go through the Payne money. However, the tag isn’t escrowed, I believe. 
 

So I guess that’s not even a work around.

 

Plus Snyder will need to personally escrow money to pay for Commander fines if he sells. So I think expecting nothing in FA is the general plan.

[Conn]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Totally agree. Which is why I think all plans have to go through the Payne money. However, the tag isn’t escrowed, I believe. 
 

So I guess that’s not even a work around.

 

Plus Snyder will need to personally escrow money to pay for Commander fines if he sells. So I think expecting nothing in FA is the general plan.

 

Yeah, I think most are probably on the same page. We’ll be picking from the scrap heap I imagine. And hey, we’ve found some real gems like that in the past, so we should start scouting the lower tiers of available FA’s for reclamation projects if we want a real look at what we might do.

 

I just don’t want @JamesMadisonSkins getting himself all worked up and disappointed lol. I love his cap breakdowns and FA thoughts but it feels…not in the cards, this year.

[Est.1974]

We’ll have plenty of money to spend in free agency. This whole cash concern is one of the most overblown discussions points on here. 
 

We’ve become a poisonous franchise, it’s about convincing free agents to join. The Bieniemy appointment helps that massively.

[Conn]

1 minute ago, Est.1974 said:

We’ll have plenty of money to spend in free agency. This whole cash concern is one of the most overblown discussions points on here. 
 

We’ve become a poisonous franchise, it’s about convincing free agents to join. The Bieniemy appointment helps that massively.

Having cap space to fill is not the same as having freedom from the owner to place huge signing bonuses into escrow. That’s typically what you need to do to sign the big name elite money guys. You’ve consistently been one of the posters down-playing this, but if Snyder is still here in a month it could be a real problem.