The Official ES (or E...C) 2022 Free Agency Thread Signed G Andrew Norwell, Obada, Trai Turner...Goodbye Scherff, Kyle Allen, Tim Settle

[FootballZombie]

Hardman can return punts.

 

If we are talking WRs, I'd welcome his addition. Not only can he can take over Dax's role, his potential as another 4.3 guy makes him tantalizing to say the least.

 

 

 

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Real question is: is he planning on selling or will he need to be leveraged. And if he isn’t planning on it, how much is he going to spend on FA knowing he may have a legal fight coming (on top of ones he’s already in?)

 

Unpredictable.

 

Your marshing-the-mellow 'Mon

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

That’s my take. Any movement in asset values/cash transactions will be built into the sale/settlement process. It’s not like it’s a company being sold that can cease trading.

 

Maybe so.  Some say though if you are in the process of the sell, the bank and buyers prefer that the finances from the seller stay somewhat static.  @Voice_of_Reason talked about this some.

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Maybe so.  Some say though if you are in the process of the sell, the bank and buyers prefer that the finances from the seller stay somewhat static.  @Voice_of_Reason talked about this some.

Yeah, I think in ‘normal’ business transactions that would certainly apply. The NFL is far from normal though is it. I have a feeling we’d be stuck with Turner as OC if it was a complete down tools exercise until the ownership matter was resolved.
 

As a complete left field statement, I would argue if Dan sanctioned a trade for Lamar Jackson the value of the organisation would increase by more than the value of the deal Jackson got.  

[kingdaddy]

5 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

Yeah, I think in ‘normal’ business transactions that would certainly apply. The NFL is far from normal though is it. I have a feeling we’d be stuck with Turner as OC if it was a complete down tools exercise until the ownership matter was resolved.
 

As a complete left field statement, I would argue if Dan sanctioned a trade for Lamar Jackson the value of the organisation would increase by more than the value of the deal Jackson got.  

Yep, and now that we've hired Bienemy and paid him why would we sit out free agency? If we have the cap space then I assume we'll use it with the understanding that new ownership wouldn't be buying this franchise if it didn't have the intention of winning by paying the players they need to win. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Maybe so.  Some say though if you are in the process of the sell, the bank and buyers prefer that the finances from the seller stay somewhat static.  @Voice_of_Reason talked about this some.

Yeah, once a sale process starts, you don’t want violent swings in anything of value,  because a significant change in cash position, asset allocation, etc. would cause additional valuation work and change to the terms of the deal.  FWIW, accountants love it because it means a whole lot more billable hours.  

 

6 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

Yeah, I think in ‘normal’ business transactions that would certainly apply. The NFL is far from normal though is it. I have a feeling we’d be stuck with Turner as OC if it was a complete down tools exercise until the ownership matter was resolved.
 

As a complete left field statement, I would argue if Dan sanctioned a trade for Lamar Jackson the value of the organisation would increase by more than the value of the deal Jackson got.  

Trading for Lamar would dramatically change the cash asset position the team with the assumption the trade included a fully guaranteed $250 million dollar deal, which is what Lamar seems to be looking for, which would probably include $100m signing bonus or something like that.  
 

a $100m change in cash position, even for an NFL team would be significant.

 

However, moving cash to escrow would not really make as much of a difference. Though it’s “spent cash” so it is looked at differently.  But not as much as “gone cash.”

 

Franchising Payne would probably move the $18M from a cash account to an escrow account.   Again, probably not a big deal from a deal perspective since Payne doesn’t actually get the cash until the season.  And with the cap and floor on spending, it’s business as usual. 
 

25 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Yep, and now that we've hired Bienemy and paid him why would we sit out free agency? If we have the cap space then I assume we'll use it with the understanding that new ownership wouldn't be buying this franchise if it didn't have the intention of winning by paying the players they need to win. 

We won’t sit out free agency entirely but I doubt we throw around top of the market signing bonuses which significantly decrease the cash the team has.  
 

One of the things which factors into the deal price is cash you are “buying.”  
 

Let’s say the commanders have $400m in cash or cash equivalents. And the buyer is paying $6 billion for the team.  Part of the evaluation is the organization comes with $400m cash. If that number is significantly lower, the buyer will lower the sale price ti accommodate.  And Dan makes less money on the sale. 
 

Who sees that as a likely scenario?  Not me.  

[Est.1974]

15 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Let’s say the commanders have $400m in cash or cash equivalents. And the buyer is paying $6 billion for the team.  Part of the evaluation is the organization comes with $400m cash. If that number is significantly lower, the buyer will lower the sale price ti accommodate.  And Dan makes less money on the sale. 
 

Who sees that as a likely scenario?  Not me.  

Less cash offset by a higher value of tangible assets is how I see that. It’s a wash. 

[CommDownMan]

On 2/17/2023 at 9:42 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

Wyllie, 9 sacks isn't hot.  PFF numbers are pedestrian. But had a big SB against the right team.

 

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2023/2/16/23598037/chiefs-eagles-super-bowl-lvii-andrew-wylie-haason-reddick

 

Andrew Wylie quietly played the game of his life in Super Bowl LVII

The right tackle exceeded expectations and proved everyone wrong.

 

Without the epic performance of right tackle Andrew Wylie, the Kansas City Chiefs would not have won Super Bowl 57. The Philadelphia Eagles entered the game with the number-one pass rush in the NFL and were being touted as one of the best defensive teams of all-time.

The vaunted pass rush had four players with double-digit sacks and was led by NFL sack leader Hasson Reddick. It would be a tall task for the Chiefs' offensive line, with eyes on Wylie.

The fifth-year veteran started every game as the right tackle for the Chiefs this season, the first year of his career that he started every game, and all at the same position. While his play has drawn criticism throughout his time in Kansas City, it has not been as warranted as it might seem.

Throughout his career, Wylie has amassed just over $6 million dollars in career earnings and accounted for just .57% of the Chiefs' total salary cap in 2022. 17 regular-season and three playoff games from a tackle who accounted for less than one percent of the team's entire salary cap for the 2022 season is remarkable in the modern NFL.

Even more remarkable was that Wylie saved his best for last, giving Reddick and the Eagles a game they would never forget.

Protecting the MVP

The key to beating the Chiefs during the Patrick Mahomes era has been very simple to explain yet hard to execute. Teams must be able to beat rush Mahomes with four but no more than five, allowing the maximum number of players to drop into coverage and muddy up his reads.

If there was ever a team that should have been able to do this, it was the Eagles, who recorded 70 sacks as a team in the regular season — as well as 12 sacks in the postseason. Wylie and the Chiefs' offensive line had other plans.

Wylie uses a perfectly timed strike to engage Reddick, placing his hands perfectly down the middle of his body. As Reddick starts to get some push into the backfield, Wylie resets his hands and regains leverage, sinking his hips and locking out his arms to stop the power rush. Mahomes has as much time as he needs and finds Travis Kelce for a touchdown.

 

During the first drive of the game, it felt like Reddick was feeling out Wylie, looking for what move he wanted to set up for later in the game. In the next series, he would try out the edge, looking to bend the arc to get to Mahomes.

The timing and placement of Wylie's hands in pass protection were vital to the success he had. He understood how Reddick wanted to get upfield to use his speed and flexibility around the arc, but he also knew that he could use his strength advantage and momentum to knock Reddick off his feet.

This physical style of play set the tone for the game and started to frustrate Reddick, and Wylie's confidence skyrocketed.

Antagonizing

A point of emphasis for the Chiefs seemed to be physical domination over the opponent. They didn't come out and try to dance around the Eagles' pass rush; they came out and attacked.

Wylie helped lead the charge, trying to aggravate and antagonize Reddick every chance he got.

With the use of some excellent acting on the left side of the field, a screen pass to Jerrick McKinnon on the right side of the field gave them a nice gain. Reddick lined up head-up on Noah Gray but was taken back by the quick snap and the subsequent play toward his side of the field.

Knowing he is late to set the edge, he tries to outrun Gray but is knocked off his feet by Wylie. A visibly frustrated Reddick throws his arms in the air, either shocked at the play or wanting a flag.

Little frustrating plays like this can add up throughout the game.

Reddick finally went to his signature jump-chop — a pass-rush move where the defender gains momentum to get around the tackle by skipping and chopping his hand down past an offensive linemen's arm. Wylie was ready for it and unleashed a trick of his own.

The use of independent hands in pass protection is a relatively new concept to pass protection and one that is taught at the highest levels. Instead of traditional two-hand pass protecting, which the jump-chop quickly takes care of, the independent hand from Wylie allows him to lock out and strike Reddick when he is in the air. Wylie then quickly works upfield, latches on with his other hand, and drives Reddick before he has a chance to win the edge.

A combination of Reddick being taken off guard and poor field conditions cause him to slip, allowing Wylie to live out every offensive linemen's dream. He was embarrassing the best the game offered and closing in on winning the battle.

Winning the fight

As the Chiefs mounted a fierce comeback, the pressure and stakes of the game would grow. Mahomes was picking the Eagles apart one pass at a time, and the Eagles' pass rush made little impact.

 

So mentioned in the article the field was a mess.   It's great that he played well in SB, but both defenses looked weak compared to regular season (although both played great offense too...)

 

OL help is needed, but I'm not upping my offer much based on that 1 sloppy game. 

Edited February 18, 2023 by CommDownMan

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[wit33]

On 2/17/2023 at 8:24 AM, Est.1974 said:

That’s my take. Any movement in asset values/cash transactions will be built into the sale/settlement process. It’s not like it’s a company being sold that can cease trading.

Yes, this exactly! 

[RWJ]

The D is built other than a true MLB, depending if they bring back Holcomb on the cheap and they need another CB.  Our entire draft needs to be about O after than, I would think.  OL, TE, QB.  Patterson is a steal as a RB along with Robinson.  I like Williams signed on the cheap too.  I'd might see what we could get for Gibby though I like him a lot but if he could bring a 4th or better, I'd let him go.  We need to build the O and with BRob, Patterson and J.D.M. we are set.  

[mhd24]

1 hour ago, RWJ said:

The D is built other than a true MLB, depending if they bring back Holcomb on the cheap and they need another CB.  Our entire draft needs to be about O after than, I would think.  OL, TE, QB.  Patterson is a steal as a RB along with Robinson.  I like Williams signed on the cheap too.  I'd might see what we could get for Gibby though I like him a lot but if he could bring a 4th or better, I'd let him go.  We need to build the O and with BRob, Patterson and J.D.M. we are set.  

Patterson isn't a steal.  He's just a JAG.  JD being injury prone is tough.  I could see him getting cut.  He's great when he's out there.  They'll draft a young RB this year (probably in the 5-7 range).

[wit33]

 

2 hours ago, mhd24 said:

Patterson isn't a steal.  He's just a JAG.  JD being injury prone is tough.  I could see him getting cut.  He's great when he's out there.  They'll draft a young RB this year (probably in the 5-7 range).

 

Give Samuel JDs role and call it a day. 

[actorguy1]

Is it out of the realm of possibility that the new owner has been settled on by mid March just needing NFL owner approval? That way the new owner to be can give the FO their true budget for FA.

[KDawg]

8 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

 

Give Samuel JDs role and call it a day. 

They can save 5.8M by cutting Samuel this off-season. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by KDawg

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

They can save 5.8M by cutting Samuel this off-season. 

I was looking at potential cap moves yesterday. His contract includes 2 voidable years 2024 and 2025 to further spread the original signing bonus he got. I could see us converting a chunk of his salary this year to bonus, maybe re work his deal further. 
 

Clearly only need to really do that if we want cap space to make numerous other additions. Samuels is still very young in context, 26/27.

 

Got to also think Bieniemy may want to add a player or so that he was familiar with. Mercole Hardman being one possibility mentioned earlier.

12 hours ago, mhd24 said:

Patterson isn't a steal.  He's just a JAG.  JD being injury prone is tough.  I could see him getting cut.  He's great when he's out there.  They'll draft a young RB this year (probably in the 5-7 range).

Yep i think we draft a RB and WR to be honest. Both probably on day 3.

[Voice_of_Reason]

On 2/18/2023 at 9:07 AM, Est.1974 said:

Less cash offset by a higher value of tangible assets is how I see that. It’s a wash. 

I don’t think it’s a tangible asset if it it’s a human asset.  And it’s a long term staffing commitment which is also not entirely loved by buyers of made within the deal period.  

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

In an offseason where the sale of the franchise remains the biggest question mark, Rivera might not have many options for a big splash. With uncertainty about ownership, it’s hard to picture the Commanders being major players in free agency or even major trades so a big-name coaching hire might be as good as it gets.

 

46 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don’t think it’s a tangible asset if it it’s a human asset.  And it’s a long term staffing commitment which is also not entirely loved by buyers of made within the deal period.  

 

I dealt with an assoicate who was buying a house recently and he asked me if I can hold back on depositing a check because the bank frowned on the numbers of his assets changing in the mix of the sale being close to going down.  And that's a small scale item, i can imagine with something major like this.

 

But hopefully Dan eschews this thought and proceeed with chasing whatever FA.  Will see.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

But hopefully Dan eschews this thought and proceeed with chasing whatever FA.  Will see.

The NFL is complicated because of the salary cap and the cap

floor, shared revenue and the way the players are compensated.  None of it is “normal.”

 

There are going to be “normal course of business expenses, which will be baked into the financials, and forecast.

 

What won’t be baked in is a $250 QB salary.

 

A $15m signing bonus for a center or guard won’t be a problem.  
 

Also, I’d bet there was some back door confirmations with prospective buys on EB’s deal.  If they completely balked it probably wouldn’t have happened.  That’s a guess, but it wouldn’t surprise me if BofA just said “hey, would it bother you if the OC contract increase from X value to Y value.

 

The rumor is Scott Turner was under contract at least for 2023 and possibly 2024, so it wouldn’t be a massive change, probably somewhat more, but not 5X more…

[Est.1974]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don’t think it’s a tangible asset if it it’s a human asset.  And it’s a long term staffing commitment which is also not entirely loved by buyers of made within the deal period.  

Yeah I don’t know how player/roster acquisitions are accounted for, probably added then  amortised over the length of contract. I mean, you go into it further by drastically increasing future revenues built into operating plans etc. Anyway, I personally don’t see the wider complications being much different when as a pre-requisite the buyer needs $2b cash in hand and must comply with those stringent NFL requirements.
 

It’s a wash for me. Business as usual.

[method man]

28 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The NFL is complicated because of the salary cap and the cap

floor, shared revenue and the way the players are compensated.  None of it is “normal.”

 

There are going to be “normal course of business expenses, which will be baked into the financials, and forecast.

 

What won’t be baked in is a $250 QB salary.

 

A $15m signing bonus for a center or guard won’t be a problem.  
 

Also, I’d bet there was some back door confirmations with prospective buys on EB’s deal.  If they completely balked it probably wouldn’t have happened.  That’s a guess, but it wouldn’t surprise me if BofA just said “hey, would it bother you if the OC contract increase from X value to Y value.

 

The rumor is Scott Turner was under contract at least for 2023 and possibly 2024, so it wouldn’t be a massive change, probably somewhat more, but not 5X more…

 

On Turner, if Bienemy was making $2M-$2.5M per year with the Chiefs, Turner must have been under $2M. If we assume he was making $1.5M per season as OC, the team will be on the hook for $1.5Mish total if we also assume he is making $750K/yr as the passing game coordinator...peanuts

[Est.1974]

4 minutes ago, method man said:

 

On Turner, if Bienemy was making $2M-$2.5M per year with the Chiefs, Turner must have been under $2M. If we assume he was making $1.5M per season as OC, the team will be on the hook for $1.5Mish total if we also assume he is making $750K/yr as the passing game coordinator...peanuts

It’s all peanuts to buyers who need 30% cash to buy the team in the first place. Upwards of $2B. I mean, I can’t see Bezos or the like vetoing any positive move because it might be too inconvenient to the accountants. 

[method man]

8 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

It’s all peanuts to buyers who need 30% cash to buy the team in the first place. Upwards of $2B. I mean, I can’t see Bezos or the like vetoing any positive move because it might be too inconvenient to the accountants. 

Yes. My point is I never understood the brouhaha out there that they would potentially keep Turner just because Dan wouldn’t want to burn a couple million dollars

[method man]

Separately this FA OL class is trash. Spending $10M+ AAV for trash like Taylor and Risner is depressing. I’d rather use those $$$ to extend as many of our own guys as possible

 

The draft is the primary path to go and they can easily grab a RT and C starter if that is what they want to do.

 

Also do not underestimate the trade market. Why trade for players? Because you do not take on their signing bonus, you can split the base salary for 2023 with the team trading him and you and you can find starters for a Day 3 pick or a swap. A great niche market is trading for overpaid cut candidates - we’ve done that twice for Keenum and Flowers.

[Est.1974]

There’ll be plenty of cap cuts around the league too. Chatter that Tampa may cut both Smith and Mason from their starting OL group. Rivera wants to get our group younger though. We need to draft two OL players this year imo.