The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Chump Bailey]

Meh, Wilson and Golladay are going to be a headache. Not looking forward to Wilson going to NY.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Chump Bailey

[Warhead36]

28 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

Meh, Wilson and Golladay are going to be a headache. Not looking forward to Wilson going to NY.

Golladay is dropping off and literally never gets open.

 

I do think Toney could be scary with Wilson though.

[mistertim]

5 hours ago, Rex Tomb said:

Without fail, I think several of those guys end up going in the top 10.  Last year, around this time, the buzz was Zach Wilson could be available for our spot in the draft but by mid-April he was a top 5 pick, maybe even #1 overall.  The amount of hype for QBs as you get closer to the draft is certifiably insane.

 

I think it's possible that there could be 2 QBs taken in the top 10, but I'd be really surprised if any more go. I think Corral and Pickett are the two with a shot of going that high. Don't see anyone else worth it. Early in the season Willis was projected that high...and top 5 in many as well. But he's had a disappointing season overall, considering his hype. IMO he's just had too many games with lots of poor decisions and turnovers for his crazy running ability and huge arm to completely make up for it. He's a big time project so I think he'll slide down the board. Maybe closer to the bottom of the 1st.

 

IIRC around this time last year plenty of mocks had Zach Wilson going top 5. Last years draft was unambiguously better than this one when it comes to the QB talent pool, so I don't really think there's much of an apples to apples comparison.

[Jumbo]

45 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Golladay is dropping off and literally never gets open.

 

 

i don't understand...i saw him literally get open once...how can that be?...wait...you don't think?

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

We'll see. Wilson is a talent but his game won't age well. He relies on mobility and making big throws downfield, but he's not gonna have a Lockett or Metcalf on the Giants. None of those guys you mentioned are  very good except Barkley but he's a RB that's already been hit with injuries, he won't age well either. Their OL is atrocious. And on top of all that, they'd have to blow two top 10 picks which can be used to retool the entire team AND give up a chunk of cap space to get him.

 

They get Wilson and they'll be stuck in purgatory for the next 3+ years.

 

Golladay is good, ex-pro bowler.  Shepard is good when healthy.  Slayton as a 4th Wr is plenty good.   Their problem is the QB and O line.  you give them a great QB and you''ll see bigger numbers from their weapons.   And they can keep swinging on the O line.  They've taken plenty of shots at improving their O line.  They got a lot of young guys at that spot, sometimes it takes time ala A. Thomas. 

 

On a scale of 0-10.  the degree of how much I'd hate them getting Wilson would be 10.  I think its will turn around their franchise.  They've been stuck in Qb purgatory since the declining Eli years.    Switching their biggest weakness into a big strength wouldn't be something I will celebrate.  So lets agree to disagree on this one. 

5 hours ago, Rex Tomb said:

Without fail, I think several of those guys end up going in the top 10.  Last year, around this time, the buzz was Zach Wilson could be available for our spot in the draft but by mid-April he was a top 5 pick, maybe even #1 overall.  The amount of hype for QBs as you get closer to the draft is certifiably insane.

 

Probably.  At least 2 go top 10 IMO.  Corral and Pickett.  Maybe Willis.

 

Howell, Strong, Ridder I doubt go top 10. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[mhd24]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Golladay is good, ex-pro bowler.  Shepard is good when healthy.  Slayton as a 4th Wr is plenty good.   Their problem is the QB and O line.  you give them a great QB and you''ll see bigger numbers from their weapons.   And they can keep swinging on the O line.  They've taken plenty of shots at improving their O line.  They got a lot of young guys at that spot, sometimes it takes time ala A. Thomas. 

 

On a scale of 0-10.  the degree of how much I'd hate them getting Wilson would be 10.  I think its will turn around their franchise.  They've been stuck in Qb purgatory since the declining Eli years.    Switching their biggest weakness into a big strength wouldn't be something I will celebrate.  So lets agree to disagree on this one. 

 

Have to disagree SIP.  They are in cap purgatory and Wilson would require both of their first rounders at least IMO.  Golladay has a major injury history and doesn't separate at all.  Basically the opposite of the WR who has excelled with Wilson (DK & Lockett).  Toney would excel with him however.  Wilson is slowing down on the field.  The eye test shows that.  Barkley strikes no fear.  Has no toughness.  Cannot run inside at all or pass block.  Engram is a FA and is surely gone (mutually it seems).  Their FO is only a shade above Bruce in terms of competence (and at least Bruce drafted Allen & Payne).  There is talk of promoting within when Gettleman retires.  That is just idiotic. 

[Ball Security]

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Golladay is good, ex-pro bowler.  Shepard is good when healthy.  Slayton as a 4th Wr is plenty good.   Their problem is the QB and O line.  you give them a great QB and you''ll see bigger numbers from their weapons.   And they can keep swinging on the O line.  They've taken plenty of shots at improving their O line.  They got a lot of young guys at that spot, sometimes it takes time ala A. Thomas. 

 

On a scale of 0-10.  the degree of how much I'd hate them getting Wilson would be 10.  I think its will turn around their franchise.  They've been stuck in Qb purgatory since the declining Eli years.    Switching their biggest weakness into a big strength wouldn't be something I will celebrate.  So lets agree to disagree on this one. 

 

Probably.  At least 2 go top 10 IMO.  Corral and Pickett.  Maybe Willis.

 

Howell, Strong, Ridder I doubt go top 10. 

I don’t think Shepard plays another down for NYG after that Achilles tear.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

Have to disagree SIP.  They are in cap purgatory and Wilson would require both of their first rounders at least IMO.  Golladay has a major injury history and doesn't separate at all.  Basically the opposite of the WR who has excelled with Wilson (DK & Lockett).  Toney would excel with him however.  Wilson is slowing down on the field.  The eye test shows that.  Barkley strikes no fear.  Has no toughness.  Cannot run inside at all or pass block.  Engram is a FA and is surely gone (mutually it seems).  Their FO is only a shade above Bruce in terms of competence (and at least Bruce drafted Allen & Payne).  There is talk of promoting within when Gettleman retires.  That is just idiotic. 

 

OK, to say I disagree would be understatement.    The team that we beat with all our horses by a hair thanks to a fluke penalty on a field goal -- yawn to see a swap for Daniel Jones for Russell Wilson.   That's just not how I see it.  Not even close.     But, to each their own.    😀

 

 

2 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

I don’t think Shepard plays another down for NYG after that Achilles tear.

 

Who knows.  We got Collins back from an Achilles tear.  He's not their prime weapon anyway.  

Edited December 21, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Maybe my disagreement is driven by seeing the rosters in the NFC East closer in talent than perhaps some others do.  Heck I recall in the preseason some goofing on Micah Parsons and I recall saying I am not happy he's in Dallas.  I know some here have said in the past that they would be cool with the Eagles getting Deshaun Watson.  So now we got some who would like to see Russell Wilson play for the Giants.

 

To clairfy my position.  I think the WFT are a franchise Qb away from being really really good and standing out in the NFC East.  Conversely I feel the same about the Eagles and to a lesser extent (but not a mile away on it) about the Giants.  It's not like teams especially the Giants andf Eagles with multiple first round picks can't make other upgrades while they get a QB. 

 

I think if we don't solve our QB issue and go same old same old with sort of a middle the pack at best type while our NFC East foes land a top 10 Qb, I think we become the favorite to finish last. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I agree somewhat and disagree somewhat.

 

There is no question he makes the Giants immediately the second best team in the NFC East.  (Barring the 'Skins getting Rodgers or something like that.)

 

But, I kindof think with his style of play, his longevity is less than other QBs.  He's not as big, he relies on his mobility and athleticism so much, and those types of things deteriorate faster than arm strength as you age.  Especially as you start to take hits.  

 

I don't see him able to maintain his level into his 40's the way Rodgers (probably) and Brady have been able to.  

 

 

It's 7 years before he is in his 40s.  If it makes them a contender for the next 5 years that would be plenty enough for me. 

 

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Also, they're going to have to give up a boatload to get him, then they're going to have to pay him.  It could work out for them for a few years (and those could be really good years for them), but I don't see it as a long-term, stable situation for them.  

 

 

It shouldn't be too hard.  They likely got two top 10 picks.  That and maybe a player or one more pick should do it.   They were smart to make that deal last year with the Bears.  

 

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Overall, I agree, it wouldn't be ideal.  I would prefer if he ended up in Houston.  But it's not a doomsday scenario either, I don't think.  

 

Nothing is doomsday.  But certainly not ideal as you say.

 

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

There is no question he makes the Giants immediately the second best team in the NFC East.  (Barring the 'Skins getting Rodgers or something like that.)

 

This is the operative point for me.  So we aren't arguing about much.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

28 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It's 7 years before he is in his 40s.  If it makes them a contender for the next 5 years that would be plenty enough for me. 

I guess I think with his style of play and build, he has 2, maybe 3 more years at elite level.  I could be wrong, but that's my gut.  

 

28 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

This is the operative point for me.  So we aren't arguing about much.  

No, I think we're in general agreement.  I think I just believe Wilson is nearer to the end than you do.  That's probably the biggest difference.  I also think it is going to be difficult for them to put a good team around him with their cap situation.  But who knows.  

[Skinsinparadise]

6 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Howell has been the guy I like the best since last year.  The idea of getting him at the latter part of the first round would be awesome

 

I understand the Ridder concern with some inconsistency. Like you, I paid a lot of attention to him last year as well as this year. He has shown improvement in all areas of his game this year and has all the intangibles. I do expect him to have a rough Cotton Bowl as they are way overmatched, but look forward to see how he handles the game. He is such a good leader.

 

I never liked any of the players you draw comparisons to, always found Lock overrated.

 

I meant to say in my earlier post that I think Willis moved himself up in the first round with Saturdays performance. We will be gone by 15.

 

I like what I've seen with Howell -- my main concern is pocket prescence.   I don't like him the best among the QBs but I definitely like him more than the typical mock drafter does.  

 

I don't recall Lock getting that much hype.  That 2019 draft was somewhat panned as being weak at QB aside from Kyler.    Serious questions existed about really all those guys sans Kyler from what I recall.  As for me when it came to Lock, i liked that he could make off platform throws, played with moxie, had some sneaky mobility.  What I didn't like was his accuracy was inconsistent and his decision making suspect.  I didn't per se push for them to draft him but also didn't push against it either -- I was somewhat neutral on Lock because of how much I waffled.  

 

Me waffiling and having concerns about decision making and accuracy is what Ridder has in common for me with Lock. 

[ananoman]

Anyone watch the Bucs/Saints game this past weekend.  The game was examplary of the fact that if you don’t have receivers who can get open, and a line that can protect you, it doesn’t matter who is playing QB.  Even Tom Brady, the GOAT, got shut out and had an int and fumble, finishing the day with a QBR of 18.5

[Skinsinparadise]

24 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

No, I think we're in general agreement.  I think I just believe Wilson is nearer to the end than you do.  That's probably the biggest difference.  I also think it is going to be difficult for them to put a good team around him with their cap situation.  But who knows.  

 

Maybe this is a better way for me to sum up my position.  I am tired of being the Giants punching bag.  They've owned us mostly in recent times and also for a long spell before that.  As some Giants players have said the WFT is the team they expect to beat.

 

But heck even though Eli was good for a spell and owned us for a spell he never scared me.  Daniel Jones never scared me.  Russell Wilson would probably be the first elite QB the Giants have had in my lifetime.  No way I'd celebrate that turn of events.  And considering they've owned us with lesser QBs, I could just imagine how it would be with Wilson.

 

 

 

 

 

18 minutes ago, ananoman said:

Anyone watch the Bucs/Saints game this past weekend.  The game was examplary of the fact that if you don’t have receivers who can get open, and a line that can protect you, it doesn’t matter who is playing QB.  Even Tom Brady, the GOAT, got shut out and had an int and fumble, finishing the day with a QBR of 18.5

 

i watched it,  Saints have oddly owned the Bucs in recent years.   4-0 I believe versus Brady.  Their defense just seems to have their number.  But yeah losing Evans, Godwin, Fournette when they were already down Antonio Brown was too much to overcome.  The Bucs O line is typically good but the Saints D line had one heck of a day. 

 

They played a lot of cover 2 -- closed the middle of the field and Brady had no answer for it.  Brady's first shut out in 15 years. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[NoCalMike]

I'd take 34 year old Wilson over any QB we have on our roster right now, but that doesn't mean I'd be willing to pay the price (in contract or trade demand) it would take for him to land here. 

[mistertim]

50 minutes ago, ananoman said:

Anyone watch the Bucs/Saints game this past weekend.  The game was examplary of the fact that if you don’t have receivers who can get open, and a line that can protect you, it doesn’t matter who is playing QB.  Even Tom Brady, the GOAT, got shut out and had an int and fumble, finishing the day with a QBR of 18.5

 

Fair point in general, but I'd be hesitant to put an inordinate amount of weight on one game. Even the best QBs in history have bad games.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, ananoman said:

Anyone watch the Bucs/Saints game this past weekend.  The game was examplary of the fact that if you don’t have receivers who can get open, and a line that can protect you, it doesn’t matter who is playing QB.  Even Tom Brady, the GOAT, got shut out and had an int and fumble, finishing the day with a QBR of 18.5

Or it was an anomaly, considering Tom Brady has routinely won games with jags for weapons over the course of his career.  

[88Comrade2000]

4 hours ago, Chump Bailey said:

Meh, Wilson and Golladay are going to be a headache. Not looking forward to Wilson going to NY.

He's complaining about the Seahawks o-line and he wants to go to New York Giants who's oline is even worse?  

How about this Rodgers to San Fran and Lance to Green Bay.   Wilson to the Saints. Jimmy G to Seattle.   Watson to a prison cell or Philly or Miami.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Rdskns2000

[Voice_of_Reason]

Everybody should also keep in mind the Giants might WANT Wilson, but they might not actually get it done.  I'm sure there will be other suitors, and I'm sure he will wave his no-trade clause for other teams outside the NFC East.

 

I still think the highest likelihood is Carrol retires, they hire a new coach with Rus's blessing, and he just stays in Seattle.  

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Everybody should also keep in mind the Giants might WANT Wilson, but they might not actually get it done.  I'm sure there will be other suitors, and I'm sure he will wave his no-trade clause for other teams outside the NFC East.

 

I still think the highest likelihood is Carrol retires, they hire a new coach with Rus's blessing, and he just stays in Seattle.  

 

Wasn't there some reporting that NYG was one of a few teams that Wilson was willing to waive the no-trade clause for? If he waives it for a handful of teams then the Seahawks get to choose where to send him from that list. NYG will probably have far and away the best potential compensation with 2 top 10 picks next draft.

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Wasn't there some reporting that NYG was one of a few teams that Wilson was willing to waive the no-trade clause for? If he waives it for a handful of teams then the Seahawks get to choose where to send him from that list. NYG will probably have far and away the best potential compensation with 2 top 10 picks next draft.

Yes, exactly. But that list can ebb and flow.  

 

Let's say, for example (and this is a ludicrous example to make a point) but let's just say somebody from Green Bay runs into Rus's agent and says, "A Rodgers for Wilson trade might make sense..."  

 

How much you want to bet all of a sudden GB is on Rus's list?

 

I'm just saying, the list CAN evolve.  Not that it will, but it can.  I'm not suggesting we would get added to it, but I think there are only 2 or 3 teams which have been reported. That might go up to 5-10 eventually IF Russ is actually on the market.  

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Yes, exactly. But that list can ebb and flow.  

 

Let's say, for example (and this is a ludicrous example to make a point) but let's just say somebody from Green Bay runs into Rus's agent and says, "A Rodgers for Wilson trade might make sense..."  

 

How much you want to bet all of a sudden GB is on Rus's list?

 

I'm just saying, the list CAN evolve.  Not that it will, but it can.  I'm not suggesting we would get added to it, but I think there are only 2 or 3 teams which have been reported. That might go up to 5-10 eventually IF Russ is actually on the market.  

 

That's true. I was just saying that if NYG are on Wilson's short list and they do plan on going hard for him, it would be really tough to beat their offer...assuming they're willing to give up both top 10 picks this upcoming draft. That's seriously buku bucks in draft capital.

 

But yes, there could certainly be extenuating circumstances that could pop up between now and then.

[Ball Security]

19 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Yes, exactly. But that list can ebb and flow.  

 

Let's say, for example (and this is a ludicrous example to make a point) but let's just say somebody from Green Bay runs into Rus's agent and says, "A Rodgers for Wilson trade might make sense..."  

 

How much you want to bet all of a sudden GB is on Rus's list?

 

I'm just saying, the list CAN evolve.  Not that it will, but it can.  I'm not suggesting we would get added to it, but I think there are only 2 or 3 teams which have been reported. That might go up to 5-10 eventually IF Russ is actually on the market.  

Wilson wants NYC in part because of his wife.  They know they aren’t going to LA.

[wit33]

All in for Rodgers. I believe he becomes a free agent versus a team having trade for him. Washington making the playoffs in consecutive years led by their defense and offense with young and vets all over should put Washington in contention versus most teams interested. 
 

Dan is also an asset in these type of scenarios and has shown a great ability to lure talent on all levels to join whether that’s coaches, FOs, or players. Players by most accounts love Dan. 
 

I’m in the middle on Russel, due to the cost it will require to get him. 

[Wildbunny]

The last time we signed and started an emergency QB, the guy ended up being our starter.

So it's not totally out of the equation that Garrett Gilbert will be our new QB in a few games.