The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, tomwvr said:

No mega trade in nfl history has ever gone well For the team getting the player. Look at the biggest of all Time Herschel Walker trade 

 

That trade was over 30 years ago so IMO it has next to no relevance. It also wasn't for an elite QB. So my point remains: nobody has traded away a mid 20 year old top 5 QB, so we have no way of knowing how it will turn out. QBs tend to have relatively long shelf lives so if you get a 26 year old established elite QB you probably have 10 years to build around him. That's definitely not the case with a RB.

[Skinsinparadise]

I am not a Jimmy G guy.  But it should be interesting to see what SF does with him this off season.  And I admit I haven't watched much SF this year.

 

 

 

[mistertim]

32 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am not a Jimmy G guy.  But it should be interesting to see what SF does with him this off season.  And I admit I haven't watched much SF this year.

 

 

 

 

I'm assuming they'll trade him, but I'm definitely curious how much they'll ask for. I'm guessing a 2nd most likely...I sort of doubt anyone would give up a 1st for him, but stranger things have happened. I wouldn't really go for him because IMO he'd only be a very modest upgrade over Heinike.

 

I think Jimmy G is like Heinicke in that to go far he tends to need a strong cast around him and the support of a strong defense, but he is smart, efficient, and doesn't make too many huge mistakes. He's not a guy who will put a team on his back and take them far with his arm. But I also think he'd be a slight upgrade from TH because he has the NFL arm that TH lacks.

Edited December 20, 2021 by mistertim

[KDawg]

18 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I'm assuming they'll trade him, but I'm definitely curious how much they'll ask for. I'm guessing a 2nd most likely...I sort of doubt anyone would give up a 1st for him, but stranger things have happened. I wouldn't really go for him because IMO he'd only be a very modest upgrade over Heinike.

 

I think Jimmy G is like Heinicke in that to go far he tends to need a strong cast around him and the support of a strong defense, but he is smart, efficient, and doesn't make too many huge mistakes. He's not a guy who will put a team on his back and take them far with his arm. But I also think he'd be a slight upgrade from TH because he has the NFL arm that TH lacks.

I think he lacks the mobility that Heinicke brings and his arm and throwing talent/processing isn’t good enough to warrant the trade to get him. But I’ve never been a Jimmy G guy.

 

Though if NE didn’t get Mac I think he’d be perfect there.

[tomwvr]

56 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

That trade was over 30 years ago so IMO it has next to no relevance. It also wasn't for an elite QB. So my point remains: nobody has traded away a mid 20 year old top 5 QB, so we have no way of knowing how it will turn out. QBs tend to have relatively long shelf lives so if you get a 26 year old established elite QB you probably have 10 years to build around him. That's definitely not the case with a RB.

I just don’t think 5 picks and 2-3 high caliber players are worth it.

if it was 3 1s and 2 players perhaps but not what Houston is asking for him. Especially with his potential of suspensions and jail.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, tomwvr said:

I just don’t think 5 picks and 2-3 high caliber players are worth it.

if it was 3 1s and 2 players perhaps but not what Houston is asking for him. Especially with his potential of suspensions and jail.

I’m all the way out on Watson until we hear he is cleared. I don’t care about his talent. I didn’t want Parsons due to character I definitely don’t want Watson (until we hear his status… his current status is a major issue even so far as suspension risk for a lot of compensation).

[Rex Tomb]

17 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’m all the way out on Watson until we hear he is cleared. I don’t care about his talent. I didn’t want Parsons due to character I definitely don’t want Watson (until we hear his status… his current status is a major issue even so far as suspension risk for a lot of compensation).

How do you see the Parsons situation playing out? I'm curious to see if/when the trouble starts, because you know there's a high probability that it's going to.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Rex Tomb said:

How do you see the Parsons situation playing out? I'm curious to see if/when the trouble starts, because you know there's a high probability that it's going to.

He’ll very likely keep his nose clean. He’s having a ton of success. Success usually breeds happiness.

 

I guess if they start to stink new possibilities open up.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Regarding Daniel Jones...

 

There’s nothing interesting about his situation. He’s gonna get cut. 😆

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, tomwvr said:

I just don’t think 5 picks and 2-3 high caliber players are worth it.

if it was 3 1s and 2 players perhaps but not what Houston is asking for him. Especially with his potential of suspensions and jail.

 

Yeah, I get your point. And I'm not saying your take is incorrect or anything. Just pointing out that a huge trade in the modern NFL era for a top 5 QB in his mid 20s is pretty much unprecedented so it's really hard to project what the impact will be. You may very well be right.

[philibusters]

In terms of the second round pick for Jimmy G., I do think he is enough of an upgrade over Taylor to be worth it.  Whether I would pull the trigger on that trade depends on how I evaluated this year's class of QB's in the draft.   

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I’m not saying we would win a SB with Derek Carr, but he would be an immediate upgrade at the position. 
 

[PartyPosse]

I wonder if the Saints fans were rejoicing in the fact that Taysom Hill best Brady.

[zCommander]

8 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I wonder if the Saints fans were rejoicing in the fact that Taysom Hill best Brady.

 

Hill didn't even score a TD...lol

[wit33]

2 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

Hill didn't even score a TD...lol

More like a game won in spite of the QB lol

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

Hill didn't even score a TD...lol

 

He was the QB. He beat Brady. Brady had 0 TDs and 1 INT. Hill had 0 TDs and 0 INTs, so he outplayed Brady.

 

We should trade a 1st for Taysom Hill. Stat.

[Mooka]

28 minutes ago, philibusters said:

In terms of the second round pick for Jimmy G., I do think he is enough of an upgrade over Taylor to be worth it.  Whether I would pull the trigger on that trade depends on how I evaluated this year's class of QB's in the draft.   

 

Weren't they at a first round pick before the season started?

 

I don't see why they'd lower their asking price, granted they make the playoffs and Garoppolo finishes the season. 

 

[KDawg]

36 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I’m not saying we would win a SB with Derek Carr, but he would be an immediate upgrade at the position. 
 

Agree that Carr is a significant upgrade to Heinicke. 

[mistertim]

14 minutes ago, Mooka said:

 

Weren't they at a first round pick before the season started?

 

I don't see why they'd lower their asking price, granted they make the playoffs and Garoppolo finishes the season. 

 

 

Oh were they asking for a 1st previously? If so, yeah I doubt they'd want to lower it. I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if some desperate team gave up a 1st for him, but I hope it's not us. I only see him as a marginal at best upgrade to Heinicke. 

[wit33]

21 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Agree that Carr is a significant upgrade to Heinicke. 

Or Nick Mullens  

[zCommander]

22 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Agree that Carr is a significant upgrade to Heinicke. 

 

Significant is a little stretch for me. Are you watching the Raiders and the Browns game right now?

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

11 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

Significant is a little stretch for me. Are you watching the Raiders and the Browns game right now?

Carr could have thrown 4 picks already tonight and he’s still a significant upgrade over Heineke.  Good goog a mooga.  Or however you spell that.

[Thinking Skins]

My main thing is that I'm weary of giving up draft capital just to be active in the QB market. One of the reasons I go so hard for the lower ground QBs is because I somewhat strongly believe that the development of QBs is they're good enough. That's what GB did all through the 90s and then they'd trade the guy away for picks and try again. But they had a great coaching team to develop the QBs. I think Brunell, Hassekbeck and Brooks were all under that coaching staff. 

 

But if a QB is worth a first round grade and the separation between him and the next guy is enough, then yeah go for it. But if it's a Campbell or Ramsey or Haskins then miss me with that. 

 

I think the draft is too special, especially early picks. QBs don't get traded. But neither do starting LTs or edge rushers. We've had problems finding a FS since Taylor. We haven't had a good MLB since Fletcher. I want to be going after generational talent in the first. Not just a guy because we need a QB. 

 

Its not that I believe we can win it all with a mid level QB, but I think that most QBs who become good become mid level. Once we figure a guy is at his ceiling we should look to replace him, but not but him a one way ticket out of town. Just keep him going until we see somebody better, even if it is a mid rounder with a higher ceiling. 

 

I was advocating for Mond in the draft because I thought he was less of a risk compared to the guys in the first because of his playing experience in college. He may not have the ceiling of those guys but he's not as raw (in my opinion). Minnesota drafted him to sit behind Cousins (who is at his ceiling). Now he may be put into a situation like Hurts was last year when they let Cousins walk. Hurts is another example of my philosophy. 

 

I really like the UDFAs because they are the ultimate prize in terms of draft capital but to me it's all about draft economics. I hated the 2005 draft because NOBODY had Carlos Rogers above Aaron Rodgers. And nobody had Jason Campbell above Aaron Rodgers but it seems we wanted nothing to do with AR and picked those guys. AR, who was supposed to be 1 overall, dropped to our pick and I thought it was good value because I didn't see another player that had his potential. This year, if we had a top ten pick I'd probably be for Parsons (but I didn't like the baggage) or Surtain. I liked Davis the Davis pick but thought he may be too raw.

 

It's all about value to me and I feel that unless it's a rare situation, QBs are rarely of value in the first. Given they may be if they're the Herbert of the draft but was Tua a value pick? Lance? Haskins (I wanted Brian Burns that year). 

 

But I stopped getting excited about this because I can't control them. It's more fun to just root for the guys we have because we're more likely to keep them and have them in some role. So I really hope Heinicke can develop and fix the problems he's seen in his game this year. 

[kingdaddy]

8 hours ago, Rex Tomb said:

He has a much stronger arm than Heinicke but the same amount of moxy.

Huntley looked like Mahomes against us in the preseason.