The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, DWinzit said:

You realize this is the kind of guy @Thinking Skinswould be advocating for to draft right....

 

He is the type of guy that I mentioned would be the reason I could see for drafting 2 QB's in the same year. If we drafted one on day 1 or 2 then took this guy in the 7th. 

 

If I were the Ravens I wouldn't be looking to trade him. They own him on the cheap for a couple years. Their third stringer is freaking Josh Johnson.

 

I've debated @Thinking Skins and @wit33 some among others on some aspects of the Qb position.  Am a bit closer to @wit33's take than I am to @Thinking Skins.  But not on the same page with either one completely.  But again its my opinion.  And they got theirs.  No rights or wrongs.

 

They both have different angles but my issue with both of their takes is IMO if you run with their philosophies too strictly you could have some bad QB play for a long time.  Both theories whether its intentional or not can play against the theory that this is a QB driven league.  I hate using all these meat theories but for whatever reason it brings my point home easier.  It's a steak league and they both are too comfortable with hamburgers for my taste.   

 

@Thinking Skins takes to me have too much of hey lets add hamburger helper to the burgers and they could turn to steak. Why not see if it works?  And he's backed off some of being hardcore on that theory.   So there is some hyperbole on my end on that front to make a point.    And @wit33's takes come off to me like he'd rather have a burger than a skirt steak if he has to pay good money for a skirt streak.  He'd pay big for a filet mignon but he'd rather see if they can make it work with a burger than overpay for anything else. 

 

The reason why I say I am closer to @wit33 take than @Thinking Skins is I am not mile off of his theory.  I think my main difference with his take is he tends to pile a lot of players into one pile and I think there is much more nuance than he tend to give credit for on my observation when grading the 10-17 type QBs, also I think his % of the cap drill is too rigid.  IMO if you got a good cap guy and you have some optimism about the cap continuing to grow, you can avoid being penny wise and pound foolish. 

 

My issue with both takes is your team can really stink for a long time if you played that out and didn't get lucky.  There is luck involved no matter what but IMO their version of playing this out requires even more luck. 

 

Only reason why I am bringing that up here is both @wit33 and @Thinking Skins have in common in spite of our difference is we love the idea of a freak when it comes to mobile types.  I am not saying I am all in on Huntley.  I don't know right now.  But he fits @wit33's desire for someone cheap and mobile.  He fits @Thinking Skins love of QBs who are unloved in the draft and mobile.  And he might fit my theory -- among other things I love Qbs that have some type of superpower especially if that power has something to do with mobility. 

 

So if he passes all three of our tests for different reasons.  He must be the guy? 

Edited December 20, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

33 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

There are so many variables to this and it feels like Washington fans gravitate towards being cheap at QB and it’s wierd to me, because we are in QB purgatory.  You would think if there was one position worthy of overpaying for, QB would be it.

Well, team has kind of put in QB purgatory over the past decade due to not cheaping out on getting and signing RG3 and Alex Smith. 

 

Overpaying on a meh vet is not that appealing either.

 

 

[Chris 44]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

lol, yeah I don't mean you can't be undrafted and be a good player but its certainly less common and by a mile at the Qb spot.  

 

I am not advocating trading for Huntley.  I don't know.  Still digesting.

 

Having said that he has some freakish athleticism which I don't think we are talking about when it comes to Taylor or Kyle Allen.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://kslsports.com/431716/utah-qb-tyler-huntley-personal-pro-day-nfl-combine/

 

SALT LAKE CITY, Utah – Former Utah quarterback Tyler Huntley did not receive an invite to the NFL Scouting Combine but after holding his own pro day, he proved that not getting an invite was a mistake.

 

Utah was scheduled to hold their pro day last week but due to the coronavirus or COVID-19 pandemic, the event has been postponed and will likely be canceled.

Huntley decided to hold his own pro day with NFL personnel on site to observe and record his results.

Here are all of the results for Huntley and how they compared to the participants at the NFL Combine.

 

40-Yard Dash

Huntley ran a blistering 4.56 40-yard dash at his pro day which is very impressive for a quarterback.

 

That 40-yard dash time would have been the best at the Combine with Hawaii quarterback Cole McDonald’s 4.58 time being the best at the Combine.

20-Yard Shuttle

Huntley finished the 20-yard shuttle in 4.31 seconds.

The 20-yard shuttle time for Huntley was faster than anyone at his position at the Combine with Princeton QB Kevin Davidson who posted a 4.37 result.

At the Combine, that result for Huntley would have been the fifth fastest time.

3-Cone Drill

In the 3-cone drill, Huntley finished in 6.84 seconds.

His 3-cone drill time was faster than any quarterback in Indianapolis. The best result at the Combine was from Oregon quarterback Justin Herbert with 7.06.

That time would have been the best at the Combine with Oregon State wide receiver Isaiah Hodgins, Utah cornerback Jaylon Johnson and Wisconsin running back Jonathan Taylor recording 7.01 times.

Broad Jump

In the broad jump, Huntley leaped 128.5 inches.

That broad jump result would have also been the tops at the Combine with Missouri’s Kelly Bryant recording the best broad jump among the quarterbacks with 125 inches.

Among all of competitors at the Combine, Huntley had the better result. Colorado linebacker Davion Taylor, Florida International defensive back Stantley Thomas-Oliver and Florida defensive lineman Jabari Zuniga all recorded the best broad jump at the Combine with 127 inches.

Vertical Jump

In the vertical jump, Huntley recorded a staggering 43.5-inch jump.

The vertical jump result for Huntley would’ve shattered any quarterback’s numbers at the Combine. McDonald led the QB’s with a 36-inch vertical jump.

Among all of the participants at the Combine, Huntley would’ve posted the best vertical jump. The best result at the Combine was from South Carolina running back Rico Dowdle with 38 inches. Oklahoma linebacker Kenneth Murray, Virginia wide receiver Joe Reed and Clemson safety K’Von Wallace all had the same result.

 

 

The reason I'm interested in Huntley is due to the current position we find our selves in at QB. Wont be in a position to get one of the top QBs coming out this year (even if there is a potential franchise QB in there somewhere) and probably not in a position to land a marquee established QB. Does not leave much for us to land a QB this year. No idea if Huntley could be that guy but its worth looking into.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

The reason I'm interested in Huntley is due to the current position we find our selves in at QB. Wont be in a position to get one of the top QBs coming out this year (even if there is a potential franchise QB in there somewhere) and probably not in a position to land a marquee established QB. Does not leave much for us to land a QB this year. No idea if Huntley could be that guy but its worth looking into.

 

Huntley intrigues me.   A concern is the short sample. Plenty over the years have played well in a short sample but then came back to earth.  But Huntley's freak athleticism is easy to see on display.  he's definitely a dude I'd consider.  But I'd have to probe deeper. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I don't think he meant 'intrigued' as in Allen might be a franchise QB, but intrigued as in - what could he do with this current team, and would it be better adding the ability to stretch the field?  Obviously it's give and take, Kyle isn't going to squirt out of trouble and scamper for the pylon like Taylor.

 

Yeah Paulsen seemed purely talking Allen up in the context  of having enough arm to threaten defenses to go down field.  He said that's especially so because the running game is working so well, having that ability to push the ball down field can work well in symphony.

 

He also talked about how Dallas mixed coverages well.  It's a theme with Paulsen that Heinicke can struggle when up against defenses that heavily mix and disguise their coverages.  

Edited December 20, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[CobraCommander]

If we go after Huntly I will root for him so hard because I hate the Ratbirds and hope he becomes better than Jackson. My fear is that the Ravens will try to fleece us. I sure hate them.  

[wit33]

16 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I'm not really that impressed by Huntley to be honest. He has happy feet and is too erratic. The Ravens made it work because he's similar to Jackson and the system is meant for a guy like that. I don't think that style of play is sustainable to winning long term.

 

The Ravens are on pace to make the playoffs for the fourth consecutive time with  Jackson and that system. 4 consecutive years in the playoffs is elite territory for a QB.  

 

 

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Tyler Huntley is slated to become an exclusive-rights free agent, meaning that the Ravens will be able to potentially move him in a trade.10 hours ago

 

4 ideal Tyler Huntley landing spots in trade with the Baltimore Ravens

 

https://sportsnaut.com/tyler-huntley-trade-scenarios-baltimore-ravens/

 

Talk about being in quarterback purgatory. WFT attempted to roll with veteran Ryan Fitzpatrick, only to see him lost for the season after one game. Taylor Heinicke has played well, but he doesn’t seem to be the long-term solution in the nation’s capital.

The backdrop here is a Washington skill-positiong group and defense that’s ready to contend. Running back Antonio Gibson has been dynamic, something that would only be magnified with Huntley in the backfield. Offensive coordinator Scott Turner has also worked with signal callers in the past in his stints as the quarterbacks coach with the Minnesota Vikings and Carolina Panthers.

 

i am not a big Kyle Allen guy.  but as Sheehan is talking about on the radio as we speak is he a major downgrade over Taylor?  He suspects not.  I suspect not.  but I don't know.

 

In short, I don't think we got the long term solution at QB on the roster right now.  Both Taylor and Kyle weren't drafted for a reason. 

He seems from afar to have similar arm strength limitations as Heineke. Is this a bad take? 
 

Side note:

Hard to watch Huntley highlight and not wish Washington would do a lot that the Ravens do with Heineke. The extra threat in the run game would help create bigger plays over the middle in the intermediate parts of the field. This part of the field is where the weak-armed QB must be a rock star to be a legit starter in the league. 

Edited December 20, 2021 by wit33

[NickyJ]

Huntley looks like a rich man's Heinicke to me, he looked pretty good throwing yesterday, but Heinicke did too in the playoffs. I'd rather shoot for the stars than instead of shoot for someone else's bargain bin 3 week wonder.

Edited December 20, 2021 by NickyJ

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

41 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Well, team has kind of put in QB purgatory over the past decade due to not cheaping out on getting and signing RG3 and Alex Smith. 

 

Overpaying on a meh vet is not that appealing either.

 

 

The team is in QB purgatory for more reasons than that.  We finally have a seasoned dude with some pull in the organization that’s at least fumigated the stench of the Bruce Allen era. Not that there isn’t a bunch of work to be done still, but Ron has made strides.  Dude deserves a legit QB whether that’s a seasoned vet made available via trade or making a splash in the draft.  Both of which will cost us assets and money now, if not down the road.  There is no way around that, which is why I don’t understand the obsession with QB salaries.  It would be different if we had a positive experience being frugal at QB, but we don’t - so I don’t understand the appeal.

Edited December 20, 2021 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[wit33]

27 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah Paulsen seemed purely talking Allen up in the context  of having enough arm to threaten defenses to go down field.  He said that's especially so because the running game is working so well, having that ability to push the ball down field can work well in symphony.

 

He also talked about how Dallas mixed coverages well.  It's a theme with Paulsen that Heinicke can struggle when up against defenses that heavily mix and disguise their coverages.  

Paulsen can’t seem to forget how bad Heineke was in Heinekes lone start with the Panthers. He threw 3 interceptions when Paulsen was with the Falcons. 
 

Going to always mostly defer to the guys who study it, but I believe Heineke reads the field well on a consistent basis. I’m one who believes game plans have a HUGE impact on whether the below average, average, and above average do well in a game. The elites can overcome poor game plans and guys with legs. This is a big part of why I’m a huge advocate for QBs who can run it can at times catapult them to fringe elite for plays or drives. 

Edited December 20, 2021 by wit33

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, wit33 said:

I’m one who believes game plans have a HUGE impact on whether the below average, average, and above average do well in a game.

I also don't think it's fair to saddle OC's with the burden of creating successful game plans week after week with a limited QB, a load of injuries, etc.  

 

[KDawg]

Huntley is a more athletic Heinicke that doesn't have the experience in the system. Pick your poison of the two I guess. I'm sticking with the one currently here if I'm choosing between them.

[Skinsinparadise]

49 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Paulsen can’t seem to forget how bad Heineke was in Heinekes lone start with the Panthers. He threw 3 interceptions when Paulsen was with the Falcons. 
 

Going to always mostly defer to the guys who study it, but I believe Heineke reads the field well on a consistent basis. I’m one who believes game plans have a HUGE impact on whether the below average, average, and above average do well in a game. The elites can overcome poor game plans and guys with legs. This is a big part of why I’m a huge advocate for QBs who can run it can at times catapult them to fringe elite for plays or drives. 

 

Paulsen, like Cooley, isn't perfect.  But you can tell he puts a lot of work in his studies.  I think with Logan it goes beyond what he saw from Heinicke with the Falcons.  He's willing also I notice to back off early assessments of players.  In other words, he doesn't seem stuck on his opinion which for me is something I admire -- I typically respect less those who can't admit they are wrong.  So Paulsen doesn't hit me the type that just doubles down on his opinion to stick with an earlier take whether that take plays out or not. 

 

My take listening to Paulsen is if I had to pick on a weakness of his is that he's excessively polite and is afraid to really attack someone's play.  So he does it in somewhat of a passive aggressive style at times.  Cooley was willing to tear a players head off though he joked it made him unpopular with some fans and some of the players he assailed.  

 

My vibe of listening to him talk about Heinicke and he's done it a lot.  I've heard him a ton.  Whether its on 106.7, 980, Keim's podcasts, etc.  I don't think he believes Heinicke is the guy.  He doesn't flat out say that but he's hinted to that point a lot.    He does think they flat out scheme it well for Heinicke -- he at one point wasn't sure about that but after studying it further he was impressed with the scheme.    He isn't in love with Heinicke's decision making and he thinks clever defensive coordinators can confuse him. On the other hand, he belives he tends to thrive playing against more simply schemed up defenses.  And he thinks his arm talent limits him. 

 

Like all of us, he praised his moxie, ability to make off script plays, etc.  He thinks he has things cooking for him but overall its not hard to read he doesn't think he's the long term answer albeit he's never flat out said so.  Jay was recently on 980, it sounds like he's watched most of Taylor's games, he's also not sold Taylor is the long term answer - it somewhat surprised me because I thought he'd be totally taken by Taylor because some of his game reminds me some of Colt.  Again obviously that's just opinion -- no wrongs or rights.  

 

I don't know if you are getting at Scott Turner likely being the issue when Taylor has down games.  If so, I don't agree.  I think Taylor is up and down like most mediocre QBs are up and down.  Mediocrity is rarely on a straight line.  You took some shots recently at Teddy Bridgewater.  Using him as an example, he had a nice spell of games earlier this season.  I watched his game against the NY Giants and the dude looked awesome in that one, i was really surprised.  But that's how it typically goes for players.   Statistically speaking Taylor has had a so so season.  But so so is rarely so so where your games are all so so.  You have a few good games.  You have a few stinkers.  You have a few so so, etc.  As its been said to death the mark of a good player is consistency.  

 

My take about Taylor's inconsistency is predicated on:

 

A.  Medicore play typically involve ups and downs. 

 

B.  Like any QB but especially him, he needs that run game humming.  I think a lot of his game and the scheme is at its best when the run game is working well.  If you shut down the run game, i think Heinicke is more likely to suffer than the typical QB for reasons I've stated in other posts.

 

Edited December 20, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

What Heinicke has at least allowed us is proper evaluation of our offense. We know McLaurin is legit. We know Thomas is solid. OL appears to be pretty good. McKissic and GIbson have talents(albeit GIbby has some notable flaws). So we should at least be thankful for that.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

What Heinicke has at least allowed us is proper evaluation of our offense. We know McLaurin is legit. We know Thomas is solid. OL appears to be pretty good. McKissic and GIbson have talents(albeit GIbby has some notable flaws). So we should at least be thankful for that.

Heinicke is WAY undersold here. We should be thankful that a UDFA off the street came in and showed he can keep us in the thick of things. That usually doesn't happen.

 

We like to crap on things here more than we should.

 

Heinicke is a good player who has shortcomings that can be improved. He's not a disaster. But he does limit things a bit. Which he makes up for with some of his special skills and leadership and knowledge of the playbook. But he definitely limits us.

[Warhead36]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Heinicke is WAY undersold here. We should be thankful that a UDFA off the street came in and showed he can keep us in the thick of things. That usually doesn't happen.

 

We like to crap on things here more than we should.

 

Heinicke is a good player who has shortcomings that can be improved. He's not a disaster. But he does limit things a bit. Which he makes up for with some of his special skills and leadership and knowledge of the playbook. But he definitely limits us.

Agreed.

 

I was watching Red Zone yesterday and there are some BAD, BAD, BAD QBs out there. Like, atrociously bad. Drew Lock for is one example. Imagine if he was our QB. We MIGHT have 2-3 wins right now, and I'm being generous to give us that many.

 

And even some of these high profile rookies. Trevor Lawrence has stunk. Justin Fields has stunk. RIGHT NOW Heinicke is better than both. Now obviously those guys have much more future upside, but if either of those guys were playing like that here we'd be nowhere near the playoff hunt.

[Skinsinparadise]

Heinicke to me is fine.  But I am judging him like i want to get married not date.  If we are dating then Heinicke is more than cool.  He has the coolest story.  He's the coolest guy IMO among any QB we've had in my lifetime.  And he's given us some of the most fun dates we've had.   My feeling negative about Taylor on a scale of 0-100 is at a 0.  Love him.  

 

But if I am getting married, its a different criteria.  My version of getting married, is this dude is my franchise QB and I am not shopping for another one this off season.  i got 3-4 games probably more to judge him in that regard.  It's not trending on he's the one i'd marry.   That's it. 

 

The other thing working against Taylor on the married front for me is i am not one of those go get Nick Foles and win a SB kind of guy because its happened every now and then in the past.  I don't have any issue with people who think the QB spot is overrated.  But I am just not one of those people.   

Edited December 20, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

14 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Heinicke is WAY undersold here. We should be thankful that a UDFA off the street came in and showed he can keep us in the thick of things. That usually doesn't happen.

 

We like to crap on things here more than we should.

 

Heinicke is a good player who has shortcomings that can be improved. He's not a disaster. But he does limit things a bit. Which he makes up for with some of his special skills and leadership and knowledge of the playbook. But he definitely limits us.

 

Most of us that don't believe he's the future or has the potential to be a franchise QB, also make note of the fact that he's not supposed to be the future or a franchise QB, and that he's way overplayed his contract and scouting report and that we'd love to keep him around as a backup.  I don't see how that's unfair or undersold.  The tides of the conversation have turned after the last game, but prior to that he was being way oversold as a reason that we don't really need to draft a QB or attempt to get a premium veteran in the offseason.  

[KDawg]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

Most of us that don't believe he's the future or has the potential to be a franchise QB, also make note of the fact that he's not supposed to be the future or a franchise QB, and that he's way overplayed his contract and scouting report and that we'd love to keep him around as a backup.  I don't see how that's unfair or undersold.  The tides of the conversation have turned after the last game, but prior to that he was being way oversold as a reason that we don't really need to draft a QB or attempt to get a premium veteran in the offseason.  

There are people who don't think even that. I'm obviously not referencing you.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

I haven't watched him because rumor is he returns for another season but if he does declare he wil get some hype.

[tomwvr]

20 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Zero. Because it's never happened before. No elite QB in his mid 20s has ever been traded by a team, especially in the modern pass happy NFL era. This woul be a first. 

No mega trade in nfl history has ever gone well For the team getting the player. Look at the biggest of all Time Herschel Walker trade 

[tomwvr]

44 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

Most of us that don't believe he's the future or has the potential to be a franchise QB, also make note of the fact that he's not supposed to be the future or a franchise QB, and that he's way overplayed his contract and scouting report and that we'd love to keep him around as a backup.  I don't see how that's unfair or undersold.  The tides of the conversation have turned after the last game, but prior to that he was being way oversold as a reason that we don't really need to draft a QB or attempt to get a premium veteran in the offseason.  

I like Taylor have defended him a lot. I think your post is dead on. But I do think this team has to look to him as a potential starter next season. It looks more and more like There are no franchise qbs in this years draft.

 

I would look at free agents or not crazy trades for a starter, but if Taylor can win 7-9 games for us this year with a team wrecked by injury, can he win 9-11 games with a healthy team next year that won’t play nearly as tough a schedule?

47 minutes ago, KDawg said:

There are people who don't think even that. I'm obviously not referencing you.

You are dead right there. And it makes no sense 

[Skinsinparadise]

Too bad we probably won't see Huntley again before next off season.  i am wary of short sample sizes.  But yeah his mobility-athleticism is certainly off the charts. 

 

 

 

 

 

[wit33]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Paulsen, like Cooley, isn't perfect.  But you can tell he puts a lot of work in his studies.  I think with Logan it goes beyond what he saw from Heinicke with the Falcons.  He's willing also I notice to back off early assessments of players.  In other words, he doesn't seem stuck on his opinion which for me is something I admire -- I typically respect less those who can't admit they are wrong.  So Paulsen doesn't hit me the type that just doubles down on his opinion to stick with an earlier take whether that take plays out or not. 

 

My take listening to Paulsen is if I had to pick on a weakness of his is that he's excessively polite and is afraid to really attack someone's play.  So he does it in somewhat of a passive aggressive style at times.  Cooley was willing to tear a players head off though he joked it made him unpopular with some fans and some of the players he assailed.  
 

 

It wasn’t an attempted shot at Paulsen, I’ll take any kind of content that helps fill the HUGE void left by Cooley. I agree on your overall assessment of him to T for the most part. It’s human nature, that first impression is extremely difficult to shake and he’s mentioned it a few times about him throwing a bunch of INTs when he and the Falcons faced the Panthers. Not sure he felt he could shake the INT/TO type plays, which isn’t wrong at all lol. Though, Heineke has reached a level for me recently of believing he won’t lose the game (this want always the case). 

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

My vibe of listening to him talk about Heinicke and he's done it a lot.  I've heard him a ton.  Whether its on 106.7, 980, Keim's podcasts, etc.  I don't think he believes Heinicke is the guy.  He doesn't flat out say that but he's hinted to that point a lot.    He does think they flat out scheme it well for Heinicke -- he at one point wasn't sure about that but after studying it further he was impressed with the scheme.    He isn't in love with Heinicke's decision making and he thinks clever defensive coordinators can confuse him. On the other hand, he belives he tends to thrive playing against more simply schemed up defenses.  And he thinks his arm talent limits him. 
 

 

I agree, he certainly doesn’t feel he’s the guy. 

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Like all of us, he praised his moxie, ability to make off script plays, etc.  He thinks he has things cooking for him but overall its not hard to read he doesn't think he's the long term answer albeit he's never flat out said so.  Jay was recently on 980, it sounds like he's watched most of Taylor's games, he's also not sold Taylor is the long term answer - it somewhat surprised me because I thought he'd be totally taken by Taylor because some of his game reminds me some of Colt.  Again obviously that's just opinion -- no wrongs or rights.  
 

 

Heineke and I’ll put Colt in same category, is the type of guy you love if you’re coaching him, providing the opportunity to see his intangibles and play making day in and day out. The other side, if you’re watching from afar, his deficiencies will scream out to you. 
 

Ive had a few players in my basketball coaching days that started at the end of the bench and by seasons end were key contributors. Their talent didn’t change but the day in and day out grind provided me an opportunity to see unique traits, intangibles, and ways to maximize their skill set. 

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't know if you are getting at Scott Turner likely being the issue when Taylor has down games.  If so, I don't agree.  I think Taylor is up and down like most mediocre QBs are up and down.  Mediocrity is rarely on a straight line.  You took some shots recently at Teddy Bridgewater.  Using him as an example, he had a nice spell of games earlier this season.  I watched his game against the NY Giants and the dude looked awesome in that one, i was really surprised.  But that's how it typically goes for players.   Statistically speaking Taylor has had a so so season.  But so so is rarely so so where your games are all so so.  You have a few good games.  You have a few stinkers.  You have a few so so, etc.  As its been said to death the mark of a good player is consistency.  
 

 

Absolutely not, I’m pro Turner.
 

Do I think they got hit in the mouth by a Dallas defense with clear plan to crush the run game, yes! Many more variables that go beyond my expertise, but the plan on offense to run the ball straight at Dallas wasn’t going to work on that day. Subjective to some degree where and how much blame to put on whoever. 

 

I’m not one that immediately looks at the deficiencies of Heineke as the reason. I’ve seen too many arm talented QBs suffer similar type defeats to lean on that. Some games I come away with a clear feeling one side had a better plan than the other, the Dallas defense seemed to have a much better plan. If Dallas dominates in similar fashion next game, I’ll back off this sentiment. 

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

My take about Taylor's inconsistency is predicated on:

 

A.  Medicore play typically involve ups and downs. 

 

B.  Like any QB but especially him, he needs that run game humming.  I think a lot of his game and the scheme is at its best when the run game is working well.  If you shut down the run game, i think Heinicke is more likely to suffer than the typical QB for reasons I've stated in other posts.

 

In his defense, the Giant and Falcon games he was that dude and the passing attack were the main reasons for those wins. The run game was a distant second as far as reason they won on offense. 
 

This doesn’t take away from your point that Heineke requires talent and a run game around him to do well consistently. When putting the game on his shoulders, he will likely implode, the Falcon and Giant games were outliers, but he’s capable. 

[Skinsinparadise]

29 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

In his defense, the Giant and Falcon games he was that dude and the passing attack were the main reasons for those wins. The run game was a distant second as far as reason they won on offense. 
 

This doesn’t take away from your point that Heineke requires talent and a run game around him to do well consistently. When putting the game on his shoulders, he will likely implode, the Falcon and Giant games were outliers, but he’s capable. 

 

I agree with almost all of your post.  As far as this point above, I agree with it too but it gives me a chance to double down on i don't think there is much of an absolute of anything when it comes to a player -- the point is more what's their pattern.  Yeah agree Heinicke did play well with the passing game in the lead in those two games.  But overall I dont think he's a win a shoot out kind of dude.  But yeah on occasion he can do it.

 

At the moment, he seems to me in that 17-22 range as for QBs.   PFF ranks him lower.    QBR rating a bit higher.  QB ratings aren't obviously precise.  But I am higher on Taylor compared to PFF, closer to where the QBR rating takes us.

 

For me those two throws to Terry against Dallas that were underthrown, one of which he even had the opportunity to put his whole body behind the throw sums up why I don't think he's the guy.   I think his intangibles are through the roof.  He's actually my favorite clutch QB in my lifetime as for the WFT -- that more than anything makes him cool to me.  But I just don't think your franchise QB could be a dude who doesn't threaten down the field much. 

 

Having said that i think it depends on goals.  If the goal is to be 9-8 and be relevant, I think Taylor can do it.  But if the sights are higher we likely need a new guy.  But I do think he's probably the best backup in the league or close enough if he's the #2 guy. 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2021 by Skinsinparadise