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The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

Koolblue13

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

People were super hyped on Mac Jones but if you actually watch him play and look at the #s, he hasn't really been great. He's been...mostly okay. The Pats were winning with their run game and defense. I don't think he's had one real good statistical game yet. And now its starting to show, against good teams like the Colts and Bills the Pats can't string together enough offense to win.

 

I'm not sure we'd be much better with Jones over Heinicke right now. Remember Heinicke has actually led multiple 4th quarter game winning scoring drives. I don't think Jones has led one yet.

 

I think that might be receny bias.  I've watched my share of his games  this year including some of today   Today was his worst game by a mile. 

 

He has 6 games where he threw 270 yards or more.  6 games with a 100 or over QB rating. 

 

This season with a 67% completion rate.  Likely ends up close to 4000 yards.  Pats running game has been decent but not great.  And they don't have a #1 receiver, arguably not even a legit #2. 

 

Headed to today he was ranked 13th in QBR, Heinicke ranked 22.  Seems about right to me.  Yeah I do think we'd be happier with Mac. 

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Warhead36

Warhead36

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3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think that might be receny bias.  I've watched my share of his games  this year including some of today   Today was his worst game by a mile. 

 

He has 6 games where he threw 270 yards or more.  6 games with a 100 or over QB rating. 

 

This season with a 67% completion rate.  Likely ends up close to 4000 yards.  Pats running game has been decent but not great.  And they don't have a #1 receiver, arguably not even a legit #2. 

 

Headed to today he was ranked 13th in QBR, Heinicke ranked 22.  Seems about right to me.  Yeah I do think we'd be happier with Mac. 

Being under 4000 yards over 17 games is pretty mediocre in today's NFL. He's never really put the Pats offense on his back the way say Herbert did last year.

 

I'm not saying he sucks, I just don't think he's been much better than average. I don't think he's a needle mover and I can't imagine we'd be better than 6-8 with Jones over Heinicke.

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Koolblue13

Koolblue13

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1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

 

 

I'm not sure we'd be much better with Jones over Heinicke right now. 

Heinicke has zero upside and has done a hell of a lot worse, with a much better supporting cast. 

 

The pats are using a heavy run game to support a young QB. We use the run game to hide a bad QB.

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Warhead36

Warhead36

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3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Heinicke has zero upside and has done a hell of a lot worse, with a much better supporting cast. 

 

The pats are using a heavy run game to support a young QB. We use the run game to hide a bad QB.

I'd take the Pats TEs and RBs over ours. WR is a wash honestly as outside of McLaurin we are probably league worst at that position while the Pats have a bunch of JAGs. OL is probably a wash.

 

But their D is way better than ours.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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26 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Being under 4000 yards over 17 games is pretty mediocre in today's NFL. He's never really put the Pats offense on his back the way say Herbert did last year.

 

I'm not saying he sucks, I just don't think he's been much better than average. I don't think he's a needle mover and I can't imagine we'd be better than 6-8 with Jones over Heinicke.

 

Some give QBs a hard time for the team's record.  So reversing that here.  The Patriots are 9-6.  Mac has something to do with that?

 

Who is his killer WR?  Killer TE?  I know they intended for Agholor to be that guy and Henry, etc to be that guy at TE but they have been somewhat pedestrain.  

 

The Patriots are a balanced team, no doubt.  But Mac has more than done his part.  Belichick is a chameleon strategically.  They play in wretched weather against the Bills so they run almost exclusively one week.  then another week they throw more.    Just saying the narrative that some have that Mac doesn't air it out isnt' true.  Sometimes he does.  Sometimes he doesn't.  He's had double the number of 270 plus yard games that Heinicke has had.   

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Always A Commander Never A Captain

Always A Commander Never A Captain

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11 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Thats who I was hyping on in the draft thread last year. But he has actually been pretty disappointing overall. 

 

I would argue his offensive roster is full of borderline NFL guys who probably shouldn't be in the league anymore.  Some exceptions like Brandin Cooks who is a legitimately good WR, but he didn't play today.

 

Mills started out awful, but has begun figuring things out.  There's a difference between his play now and his play earlier in the season.

 

If the Texans draft a QB in the first.  We should ask how much it would cost to take Mills off their hands.

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Koolblue13

Koolblue13

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32 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I'd take the Pats TEs and RBs over ours. WR is a wash honestly as outside of McLaurin we are probably league worst at that position while the Pats have a bunch of JAGs. OL is probably a wash.

 

But their D is way better than ours.

How could WR be a wash? Alogolr vs TMac? 

 

Their TEs have been disappointing. Their lines fine, but ours is better.

 

You put Mac on our team and Terry has 1,500+, our defense isn't constantly stressed and Gibson isn't facing overloaded boxes every play. 

 

There's no argument here. There's maybe 5 people who would take Heinicke over Mac Jones and 3 are his family.

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CapsSkins

CapsSkins

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've elaboated on many of them on the draft thread.  But I want to see how these guys do in the Senior Bowl and want to watch them more.  So my rankings likely change. The cliff notes of what I think of the top ones now:

 

1.  Corral: 

 

2.  Willis: 

3.  Pickett: 

4.  Howell:  

5.   Ridder: 

6.  Strong:  

7.  Zappe.  

 

Thanks for this, SIP. Based on your write-ups I like Corral or Willis in the 1st or Strong later in the draft.  

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Jericho

Jericho

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Mac Jones has been okay. He's clearly being asked to be more of a game manager right now and the fact the Pats' skill positions are weak overall upgrades the degree of difficulty a bit. So there's reason for optimism long term. But whether he ever gets there is a TBD. Davis Mills has migrated from hideously awful to below average. His last 3 games look fine statistically, but came against some piss poor defenses (two of which have little to play for). If we're grading on a curve, both had decent performances. But as for whether either is a viable long term answer, I'm not sure. Mac Jones seems more like a middle of the road guy. Maybe eventually a Kirk Cousins type. Davis Mills still looks like a long-term back-up at best. There's time for either to grow and exceed those expectations. But it's also quite likely neither ever do. While a Kirk Cousins type would be a clear upgrade for this team. It's also a pretty mediocre and disappointing outcome if you're hoping for a franchise type guy.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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To make that climb IMO aside from upgradng at some spots.

 

A.  Obviously you need the QB.  Collingsworth said it well last night.  What teams are headed to the playoffs?  They all typically have that QB.  if you don't have the QB you got to keep swinging until you get that guy.  

 

B. D line needs to live up to their potential.  When Dallas has Parsons, Lawrence, Gregory on the field at the same time they've overwhelmed our O line which otherwise has been stout this year typically.  Their pass rush dominiates.  Our D line was good at full force but far from dominant like Dallas. 

 

There is a big gap now between us and Dallas because they got both the better pass rush and the better QB.  Yeah COVID-destroyed this season.   But fully healthy, I don't think our roster holds up to theirs. 

 

 

 

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Koolblue13

Koolblue13

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First offensive play gets underthrown in a very predictable pass (to Terry), against the league leading DB and the wind was sucked out after the defense held up the first drive.

 

That's been the story pretty often this year. 

 

I can see us take a major shot at one of the top QBs that might be available, then if it doesn't work (which it probably won't) we'll draft a guy.

 

I'd still like to go after Trubisky, maybe Mariotta. I have no idea why Allen hasn't gotten a start, but he must not be in the plans for next year. I hope Heinicke isn't.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

. I have no idea why Allen hasn't gotten a start, but he must not be in the plans for next year. I hope Heinicke isn't.

 

 

 

Rivera asked today about QB.  

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

First offensive play gets underthrown in a very predictable pass (to Terry), against the league leading DB and the wind was sucked out after the defense held up the first drive.

 

 

 

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justice98

justice98

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

This is why I think the "McLaurin isn't a #1 WR" or "McLaurin gets shut down by elite corners" arguments fall flat.  If that's any other top WR and a competent QB throwing the ball, that's a big play because the ball is on time and where it's supposed to be.  But in Terry's case, it's an INT, and feeds the narrative that Diggs got the best of him. 

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BatteredFanSyndrome

BatteredFanSyndrome

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7 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

This is why I think the "McLaurin isn't a #1 WR" or "McLaurin gets shut down by elite corners" arguments fall flat.  If that's any other top WR and a competent QB throwing the ball, that's a big play because the ball is on time and where it's supposed to be.  But in Terry's case, it's an INT, and feeds the narrative that Diggs got the best of him. 

I can't say whether or not McLaurin is a legit  All Pro #1 receiver in the league primarily because he's never once had a legit QB throwing him the ball.  To me its inconclusive for that reason.  What unnerves me though is when the Hive tries to exaggerate a few clips where Terry doesn't get free to mean that's why he's not getting the ball from Taylor.  I about blind myself rolling my eyes into the back of my head every time I see it.

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wit33

wit33

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Statistically Mcclaurin has benefited from being the face of the offense and game planned for each week, but it can be difficult for a WR to be a game changer without a special QB. Mcclaurin has compiled great stats to start his career, but it’s come without consistent great impact of an elite guy— this easily can be tied to not having a physically gifted middle of the road starter at least. 

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