The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

Umm...lol

 

Since he said "does" and not "did" I had to shake my head.

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

A lot of Wentz talk this week whether on TV, radio or podcasts as NFL observer types comment about all of the teams.  lol, wow, what a crap fest on Wentz and scorn about the deal they made to get him from so many different corners. 😧

 

As an NFL media junkie who subscribes to just about everything and watches and listens to just about everything I can, its tough for me to think of a deal crapped on as much as this one.  And boy is Wentz not liked.  

 

It has to be one of the oddest narratives I can recall about a player.  Wentz by most accounts is a nice guy.  Yet so many in the media love to hate him. 

 

With few exceptions, they think this team got snowed by Ballard and will be shopping for another Qb soon.

 

Almost no grey area in the debate.  Personally I do think they overpaid from the context of I don't think they had much competition as for the bidding process and panicked as if a bidding war would escalate before it actually did.  So did Ballard outsmart Rivera?  IMO yes.  But......I don't get the narrative that yawn about a high upside QB in a trade?  Since when?  They traded a little more than what the Panthers traded for Darnold.  

 

The Darnold trade was mostly embraced by the national media and also guys crapping on this deal like Sheehan.  Panthers were smart for betting on "upside" on a QB who hadn't shown squat.  But the Commanders are morons for betting on upside on Wentz who actually had multiple good years that Darnold has never touched.

 

And what's the deal with all the adulation for Frank Reich?  You'd think he's Bill Walsh listening to the national media.  I was just listening to Mike Lombardi who used the company line that if Reich can't fix him nobody can.  Really?  And its not as if Wentz had some disaster season last year under Reich.

 

It should be an interesting season.  I am jazzed about it.  Yeah i think i might be one of the only ones here who do agree with the premise that Ballard outwitted Rivera but also I am still more than happy with the outcome in spite of IMO the overpay.  But I will say coming from a very pro Rivera guy like myself, all the negative media backlash for this deal does set up sort of a sink or swim outcome from a PR perspective.  Either Rivera gets the last laugh or most of the national/local media will write articles with the theme of I told you so

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Voice_of_Reason]

On 4/24/2022 at 10:52 AM, Califan007 The Constipated said:

Me when I've had a few:

For me to get there I’d probably have to drink the entire Johnnie Walker distillery.  And that might not actually do it. I might need to move on to a Jamison distillery before I got that loopy.  
 

In fact, I’m pretty sure I would die of alcohol poisoning, or potentially drowning from alcohol consumption, before I ever came to that conclusion. 

[moondog]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

A lot of Wentz talk this week whether on TV, radio or podcasts as NFL observer types comment about all of the teams.  lol, wow, what a crap fest on Wentz and scorn about the deal they made to get him from so many different corners. 😧

 

As an NFL media junkie who subscribes to just about everything and watches and listens to just about everything I can, its tough for me to think of a deal crapped on as much as this one.  And boy is Wentz not liked.  

 

It has to be one of the oddest narratives I can recall about a player.  Wentz by most accounts is a nice guy.  Yet so many in the media love to hate him. 

 

With few exceptions, they think this team got snowed by Ballard and will be shopping for another Qb soon.

 

Almost no grey area in the debate.  Personally I do think they overpaid from the context of I don't think they had much competition as for the bidding process and panicked as if a bidding war would escalate before it actually did.  So did Ballard outsmart Rivera?  IMO yes.  But......I don't get the narrative that yawn about a high upside QB in a trade?  Since when?  They traded a little more than what the Panthers traded for Darnold.  

 

The Darnold trade was mostly embraced by the national media and also guys crapping on this deal like Sheehan.  Panthers were smart for betting on "upside" on a QB who hadn't shown squat.  But the Commanders are morons for betting on upside on Wentz who actually had multiple good years that Darnold has never touched.

 

And what's the deal with all the adulation for Frank Reich?  You'd think he's Bill Walsh listening to the national media.  I was just listening to Mike Lombardi who used the company like that if Reich can't fix him nobody can.  Really?  And its not as if Wentz had some disaster season last year under Reich.

 

It should be an interesting season.  I am jazzed about it.  Yeah i think i might be one of the only ones here who do agree with the premise that Ballard outwitted Rivera but also I am still more than happy with the outcome in spite of IMO the overpay.  But I will say coming from a very pro Rivera guy like myself, all the negative media backlash for this deal does set up sort of a sink or swim outcome from a PR perspective.  Either Rivera gets the last laugh or most of the national/local media will write articles with the theme of I told you so

 

 

 

So I feel like you me and @KDawg could write articles and have a podcast. I try to listen to jp Pete and Mitch but man, the latter two just come off as, holy hell these guys can’t put a sentence together and jp ain’t much better. I’m fairly certain with any level of inside insight this is a job we could do 😅

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, moondog said:

So I feel like you me and @KDawg could write articles and have a podcast. I try to listen to jp Pete and Mitch but man, the latter two just come off as, holy hell these guys can’t put a sentence together and jp ain’t much better. I’m fairly certain with any level of inside insight this is a job we could do 😅

 

lol, yeah I'll give credit though to those three because they set the trend with the local media as for doing podcasts, now they almost all do them and ironically JP's podcast now IMO is one of the weaker ones out there.  But at the time I liked the novelty of it.  Weird thing about JP is he's always around the team but has almost no inside knowledge about anything.  I am guessing he must have burned his sources.   But I don't know.

 

Being in a business were I have to interact with the media.  If I gave them inside knowledge but told them to stay quiet and its just on background and they burned me by sharing it anyway in a story, I wouldn't share squat again.  I am guessing that's why Keim is so good at getting information.  That is, when people tell him stuff on background and ask him to be quiet about it, he keeps his word, I'd guess. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Sheehan going two days in row now with the negatitve take from the story from Football Outsiders that Wentz isn't the solution and QB should be this team's goal in this draft -- Sheehan naturally thinks that's dead on.  And this team is stubborn and foolish to cling to the idea that they found their guy even though the reality is they haven't.  lol, time to give up on Wentz, the experiment has already failed apparently. 

 

I'll couch it again with I like Sheehan hence I listen to him, but for the dude who swore by Darnold, was meh about Mac Jones and said Trask was better last off season -- to turn around and be that definitive that Wentz is "meh", i don't get where all his confidence is coming from.  In his defense, he's just sticking to the company line versus giving his own evaluation that the Eagles and Colts are smarter than this team so enough said, case closed.  But even if that's the narrative he and others want to run with --  they are ignoring the narrative/subplot about both teams which is much more complicated than he purports and as I've said before he should know better since an Eagles reporter explained the narrative to him on his own show. 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Chris 44]

54 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Sheehan going two days in row now with the negatitve take from the story from Football Outsiders that Wentz isn't the solution and QB should be this team's goal in this draft -- Sheehan naturally thinks that's dead on.  And this team is stubborn and foolish to cling to the idea that they found their guy even though the reality is they haven't.  lol, time to give up on Wentz, the experiment has already failed apparently. 

 

 

 

 

Its frustrating listening to the narrative out there. As with many of you I keep going back to the fact that this was probably the best option out there at the time, including the draft, which does not seem to have a  potential franchise QB in the bunch (maybe one will emerge as having the ability during the year?) but again we didn't even spend a 1st rounder on the guy who if he was in this draft would easily be the first QB selected. Also with the added bonus that we can move on from him in a year if necessary. I just don't understand what they thought the team could have done better under the circumstances. The only way Wentz does not give us at the very least competent quarterback play for this year,with the potential to greatly improve the talent already around him, is if he gets hurt.

[Die Hard]

17 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Either Rivera gets the last laugh or most of the national/local media will write articles with the theme of I told you so

And that’s the narrative about this being a make or break season for RR. And a lot of it is all of his own doing.

 

I wouldn’t/don’t blame RR for going for it. This is a critical season. And it’s ripe for success.

 

Apparently Ron thinks the only thing stopping this team from winning a Super Bowl last year was a starting caliber NFL Qb.

 

Incredibly bold statement. I don’t see it but Rivera gets his chance here/now.

 

But if you’re wrong, you’re out. You don’t get to reload. Sorry.

 

That seat is going to be white hot.

 

Good luck coach!

 

 

[Warhead36]

Sheehan isn't an analyst. He's not really an expert at all. He has no football experience whatsoever(I mean maybe he played in HS or something). He's a fan like us. He has his biases and hills he chooses to die on and that's that. I wouldn't take any of his analysis or predictions seriously.

[Carsonfanforlife]

3 hours ago, Die Hard said:

And that’s the narrative about this being a make or break season for RR. And a lot of it is all of his own doing.

 

I wouldn’t/don’t blame RR for going for it. This is a critical season. And it’s ripe for success.

 

Apparently Ron thinks the only thing stopping this team from winning a Super Bowl last year was a starting caliber NFL Qb.

 

Incredibly bold statement. I don’t see it but Rivera gets his chance here/now.

 

But if you’re wrong, you’re out. You don’t get to reload. Sorry.

 

That seat is going to be white hot.

 

Good luck coach!

 

 

I seriously doubt he thinks that but it's pretty obvious to everyone including him that he needs at least an average NFL QB to make the playoffs. Once you're in anything can happen, chip and a chair as they say but I don't think not winning a SB means he's done. We make the playoffs this season you can count on RR and Wentz being back next season.

[Darth Tater]

Many people seem to read 'make of break' as 'win or get fired'. No, 'make or break' simply means that this season actually determines whether Ron will be a successful head coach here or not.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

 

[seantaylor=god]

I like Wentz the player but he has real injury issues; he’s an old 29.

 

I hate what we gave up for him but I am excited about him as a player. I would have been doing backflips if we got him in FA. 
 

I really hope he puts it all together for us because he’s got elite tools.

[kingdaddy]

11 hours ago, Die Hard said:

And that’s the narrative about this being a make or break season for RR. And a lot of it is all of his own doing.

 

I wouldn’t/don’t blame RR for going for it. This is a critical season. And it’s ripe for success.

 

Apparently Ron thinks the only thing stopping this team from winning a Super Bowl last year was a starting caliber NFL Qb.

 

Incredibly bold statement. I don’t see it but Rivera gets his chance here/now.

 

But if you’re wrong, you’re out. You don’t get to reload. Sorry.

 

That seat is going to be white hot.

 

Good luck coach!

 

 

I don't think so. RR is one of the few credible recognizable people at the top of the organization. His position is much more about putting a credible face and voice on this organization than it is about wins and losses. Dan simply cannot fire RR given his own state of affairs unless RR falls flat on his face and the team is an embarrassment which I doubt will happen given a last place, easiest in the league, schedule. Dan needs RR more than RR needs Dan and Dan can't afford anymore issues than he already has. Also, who's gonna want to come here that's better than RR given all of the off field bull****? I'd bet RR is closer to an extension and more power than he is being fired. 

[Warhead36]

14 hours ago, seantaylor=god said:

I like Wentz the player but he has real injury issues; he’s an old 29.

 

I hate what we gave up for him but I am excited about him as a player. I would have been doing backflips if we got him in FA. 
 

I really hope he puts it all together for us because he’s got elite tools.

29 isnt old and it definitely isnt old for QB

[seantaylor=god]

5 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

29 isnt old and it definitely isnt old for QB

He’s an old 29 with his significant injuries. He plays older than 29. He’s not the same guy athletically he was when he came into the league. That’s what I was getting at.

 

https://www.draftsharks.com/fantasy/injury-history/carson-wentz/7450
 

Edited April 27, 2022 by seantaylor=god

[Warhead36]

4 minutes ago, seantaylor=god said:

He’s an old 29 with his significant injuries. He plays older than 29. He’s not the same guy athletically he was when he came into the league. That’s what I was getting at.

 

https://www.draftsharks.com/fantasy/injury-history/carson-wentz/7450
 

He hasn’t missed a game due to injury since 2018. 

[seantaylor=god]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

He hasn’t missed a game due to injury since 2018. 

 

So is your argument that he’s not an injury risk because he plays through his injuries? Or that he isn’t limited athletically compared to his transcendent play as a younger player?

 

I don’t understand what we’re arguing about. He’s a good player, I like him. I’m very concerned he will get hurt and not succeed on our team.

 

 

 

[Warhead36]

39 minutes ago, seantaylor=god said:

 

So is your argument that he’s not an injury risk because he plays through his injuries? Or that he isn’t limited athletically compared to his transcendent play as a younger player?

 

I don’t understand what we’re arguing about. He’s a good player, I like him. I’m very concerned he will get hurt and not succeed on our team.

 

 

 

Everyone is an injury risk. Its professional football. 

 

I don't know if he's limited athletically. Its 2022. Medicine has come a long way.

 

My issues with Wentz are more mental than anything else. He gets the yips from time to time and has some of the biggest mental eff ups ever. Very Cousins-esque in that regard.

[DJHJR86]

 

 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

On 4/25/2022 at 4:15 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

It should be an interesting season.  I am jazzed about it.  Yeah i think i might be one of the only ones here who do agree with the premise that Ballard outwitted Rivera but also I am still more than happy with the outcome in spite of IMO the overpay.  But I will say coming from a very pro Rivera guy like myself, all the negative media backlash for this deal does set up sort of a sink or swim outcome from a PR perspective.  Either Rivera gets the last laugh or most of the national/local media will write articles with the theme of I told you so

 

 

 

 

As much as I'm not a fan of Wentz or the overall deal, I recognize that it most likely was our best option to have a halfway decent quarterback under center for Week 1 of this season.  I don't trust our ability to scout, draft and develop and we weren't going to win big in a trade or free agency.

 

I agree, it is sink or swim.  I think Wentz will largely be fine but coming up big in key moments?  We'll see.

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

He hasn’t missed a game due to injury since 2018. 

He got knocked out of a playoff game in on Jan. 5th, 2020 by Clowney because of injury but he has been pretty injury free recently after a bad run of injuries going back to his college career. 

Being concerned about him getting injured seems legit given his history (back, knee, wrist, etc.) even if he has been pretty healthy recently. Saying he's an "old 29" doesn't seem like a stretch...especially when a guy's back is balky.

[HoggLife]

19 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

As much as I'm not a fan of Wentz or the overall deal, I recognize that it most likely was our best option to have a halfway decent quarterback under center for Week 1 of this season.  I don't trust our ability to scout, draft and develop and we weren't going to win big in a trade or free agency.

 

I agree, it is sink or swim.  I think Wentz will largely be fine but coming up big in key moments?  We'll see.

If we get him more weapons in the draft he will be in the top3 QBs we have ever had.

[Spaceman Spiff]

7 minutes ago, HoggLife said:

If we get him more weapons in the draft he will be in the top3 QBs we have ever had.

 

That's sad on a number of levels....we've been so barren at that position for so long that Carson freakin' Wentz could end up being a Top 3 QB in franchise history?  Ugh.  UGH.

 

Anyway, it's my hope that he's good enough that he could elevate some guys that we already have.  TMC is fine, we know that.  He's going to produce no matter who is back there.  Can Commie Carson help someone like Cam Sims elevate to a legit #3 or maybe even a #2?  What about Brown?  What can he do with Curtis "ow, my hamstring" Samuel?

 

I just don't want people making excuses for Wentz because we didn't go WR with the 11th pick.  But what do I know?  I'm still suffering from Doctson PTSD.

[wit33]

2 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

 

 

I just don't want people making excuses for Wentz because we didn't go WR with the 11th pick.  

I speculate there will be a pretty clear consensus of what Wentz is by seasons end and whether he should be the long term QB. He’s not a middling QB from standpoint of playing things safe, it’s going to be one extreme or the other. The Colts tried their best to put a governor on him, which I disagree with doing and hope Ron and company don’t subscribe to. Let the dude pursue his path and find out one way or other whether he can return his previous form of playing free and with no cares in the world.