The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[mistertim]

IIRC they've also pretty much said they're not in a huge rush to develop Howell. He's a 5th rounder so they can take their time with him. That doesn't mean that he won't be given the chance to win the #2 spot, but it does mean that there isn't much pressure to get him onto the field like there would be for a 1st round guy, or even a 2nd round guy.

 

That being said, it wouldn't really surprise me if Howell beats out Heinicke for the backup spot. He's smart and a hard worker, has a big arm, and also has the extra rushing/scrambling dimension that Heinicke was supposed to have but hardly used last season.

[NoCalMike]

I am not worried about Howell beating Heinicke out for the #2 job right now, but I do think eventually there should be signs shown that he has that ability because Heinicke is already seen as a career backup or best case scenario short-term journeyman.  If the QB you drafted is seen as having the potential to be the starter and/or franchise QB eventually, beating out a career backup should not be too tough a mountain to climb.  I like the pick and the fact that it was the 5th round.  It takes a lot of the usual pressure off of needing that draft pick to perform immediately.  Going into the season Howell isn't seeing the field unless the two other QBs are injured and/or there is a game that is so lopsided, that getting him some reps won't hurt/help the situation. 

[shemp nixon]

The pre-season games are must watch now with Howell getting the bulk of snaps. 

[Stone Cold]

I don’t want him anywhere near the scout team.  If the kid ever gets an opportunity, I hope it’s after he’s completely absorbed the playbook to the point of mastery.  
Year 3 sounds fair if I’d have to set a bar or benchmark.  at that point, wentz is hopefully still ballin and we have either a trade asset or the best backup in the league with mad potential to takeover from wentz

Edited May 2, 2022 by Stone Cold

[skinsfan66]

Heineke, is a good backup spot starter, should be no.2.  Mobility and descent pocket awareness are factors in being able to get rid of the ball and escape the pressure.  Wentz is going to get pressure and he has a habit of fumbling when in the pocket. Hope he holds onto the ball here. This is a great spot for Howell to sit and not get your head taking off while you adjust to the NFL.  I do not have the faith in our OL as many do here, when the pressure comes, they mostly fold on passing downs. Look how many QBs have been KOed here recently.  Heineke gets too much of the blame and he has mostly been able to still walk.

 

[DWinzit]

6 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Wentz is 6 5

Kelley is 6 7

And our top 3 TE's are 6'6" with the 4th Reyes being a short 6 5

 

They can play monkey in the middle with the CB's

[zCommander]

3 hours ago, MartinC said:

 

He lasted 17 games last season and played decently overall. If he has to play and plays badly or we have a poor record and no playoff spot then you would absolutely start to look at Howell. But Howell has to show he deserves that shot and can be better than Heinicke. As you say we are talking about a QB taken in the 5th round here not a 1st round pick. There is no pressure to play him until he is ready (or you are in a position where he is the last man standing!)

 

I totally agree with you except for the minor clerical error. TH only played 16 games last year.

 

I know he played badly the last couple of games and I know some will say you can't use injury as an excuse but it was a reality and covid didn't help either. But if you look at his overall performance it was enough for him to be the #2 at least. 

 

I don't see any reason to cut TH who knows the Turner's system to save like 1.5 mil. He can come in a pinch and win a game or two if needed. If he gets hurt in training camp or pre-season and will be out for a year then yeah he could be cut instead. 

[Captain Wiggles]

7 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

I totally agree with you except for the minor clerical error. TH only played 16 games last year.

 

 

16 1/2 games? 🤓

[zCommander]

2 minutes ago, Captain Wiggles said:

 

16 1/2 games? 🤓

 

Okay smarty pants but the playoff game doesn't count - lol

But for season 2021 he played only 16.

 

[TheShredder]

Jim Irsay said that they moved on from Wentz because in the end they needed more consistency and leadership.

So, from the cheap seats it appears that had Carr not made that miracle escape and throw at the end of the game, Colts would have clinched and Wentz sits vs Jags going into Wild Card weekend. Hmmmm... Sounds more like RR & Co give draft picks and pick up full salary was too good to pass up after the Colts miss the playoffs and Irsay was pissed off!

 

Also said Wentz was a hard worker and trade wasn't from lack of effort.

 

Makes me wonder what kind of closer or finisher Wentz will be. He needs to prove he can lead his team to Wins week on week (string together W's and isolate L's)

[88Comrade2000]

We are a Dan Snyder team and bad karma permeates us.

 

Here's what will happen.

 

Ron will barely play Carson in preseason.

Carson starts out 2-2 and then has a season ending injury.

Sam, who won the backup job, plays 4 games before having a season ending injury. He goes 1-3.

Taylor finishes the season and he goes 4-5.

We finish 7-11.

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 hours ago, zCommander said:

I don't see any reason to cut TH who knows the Turner's system to save like 1.5 mil. He can come in a pinch and win a game or two if needed. If he gets hurt in training camp or pre-season and will be out for a year then yeah he could be cut instead. 

I don't think there is a reason to cut TH either, because, as you said, he is the only QB on the roster who knows the system.

 

However, as you pointed out a clerical error earlier in the thread, I will point out one for you: they would save $3M against the cap if they cut him, according to OverTheCap.

 

 

I still don't think they should cut him.

 

But facts are facts, and we should deal with facts.  

 

I do think the drafting of Howell means the end of TH in Washington in 2023.  Unless Howell completely busts in practice, they won't re-sign a veteran at a higher cap number over a 5th round guy on the second year of his rookie deal.  That's not a slight against TH, it's just sortof "math."

[Voice_of_Reason]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah Ron humiliated Heinicke (unintentionally) enough with talking all off season about how QB is a code red spot and openly talked about how badly they need to improve it.   

 

If he annoited Howell from the jump as the backup it would be unseemly especially in the context of everything that has happened already this off season.

 

Having said that, I'd put money that if Howell outplays Heinicke in the off season camps, he will have a shot to unseat Heincke as the back up.

 

Howell is miles more talented IMO than Heinicke -- among other things, he has a much stronger arm and is more accurate. 

The question is going to be whether or not Ron REALLY gives him the opportunity to win the backup job.  

 

He might not.  He might like having TH as the security blanket, a guy who knows the system, a veteran, a guy who has played, and who could come in and spell Carson if he went out.

 

I could actually see something like "TH is the backup for game-day, but if we lose Carson for a long stretch of time, we're going to get Howell ready to play games."  That's been done before.  The coaches trust the veteran to come in off the bench more than a rookie (and that makes sense) but if you have the full week to prepare, you're more comfortable going with a rookie.  

 

Shrug.  Maybe, maybe not.

 

I don't really care to find out one way or the other because I want Wentz to play every snap for 20 or 21 games this season   

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The question is going to be whether or not Ron REALLY gives him the opportunity to win the backup job.  

 

He might not.  He might like having TH as the security blanket, a guy who knows the system, a veteran, a guy who has played, and who could come in and spell Carson if he went out.

 

I could actually see something like "TH is the backup for game-day, but if we lose Carson for a long stretch of time, we're going to get Howell ready to play games."  That's been done before.  The coaches trust the veteran to come in off the bench more than a rookie (and that makes sense) but if you have the full week to prepare, you're more comfortable going with a rookie.  

 

Shrug.  Maybe, maybe not.

 

I don't really care to find out one way or the other because I want Wentz to play every snap for 20 or 21 games this season   

 

Wentz has QB 1 spot locked down for now for sure

 

But you are underestimating the entertainment value of the Heinicke Howell battle in camp.  We need some battle to cling to. 😀  

 

 

 

[sjinhan]

2 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

We are a Dan Snyder team and bad karma permeates us.

 

Here's what will happen.

 

Ron will barely play Carson in preseason.

Carson starts out 2-2 and then has a season ending injury.

Sam, who won the backup job, plays 4 games before having a season ending injury. He goes 1-3.

Taylor finishes the season and he goes 4-5.

We finish 7-11.

 

 

You are making this too easy for us Washington fans…

 

Carson will play lights out in preseason but go 1-2 before season ending injury…. Sam as you said will go 1-3…. Only to have Taylor play his hearts out to go 6-4…. We finish the season as 8-9 and miss the playoffs…

 

we go into next offseason with having absolutely no clear answer at QB with small rabid group of fans yelling for new contract for TH who will be becoming free agent next offseason lol

 

complete circus is most likely scenario.

 

With all that said the optimist fan in me says Wentz will stay healthy and have a pro bowl year with all the weapons surrounding him.

Edited May 3, 2022 by sjinhan

[KDawg]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Wentz has QB 1 spot locked down for now for sure

 

But you are underestimating the entertainment value of the Heinicke Howell battle in camp.  We need some battle to cling to. 😀  

 

 

 

I expect more from you. Wentz has QB1 spot locked down? You’re underestimating the power of Howell’s Hortative.

[Warhead36]

Knowing the system is a bad argument because the system is different for Heinicke because of his limitations. You're gonna see a different playbook with a QB with an actual NFL arm.

[Voice_of_Reason]

11 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Knowing the system is a bad argument because the system is different for Heinicke because of his limitations. You're gonna see a different playbook with a QB with an actual NFL arm.

But at the very least he knows the language and the read progressions. 
 

He’s valuable for that reason … for now. You don’t want to have to teach the system to 4 QBs.

 

After this season, when Howell has been in it for a full year, it won’t matter a damn.

52 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But you are underestimating the entertainment value of the Heinicke Howell battle in camp.  We need some battle to cling to. 😀  

Yeah.  I’m going to be hanging on every Keim podcast for updates on that….

Edited May 3, 2022 by Voice_of_Reason

[Leonard Washington]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

But you are underestimating the entertainment value of the Heinicke Howell battle in camp.  We need some battle to cling to. 😀  

 

Unless Taylor falls off, Howell will have a difficult time being a clearly better QB.  If Howell blows by Heinicke during a single off season, then Carson should be on the ropes too. 

[Simmsy]

I know McAffe was a Colt, so there is some bias there, but he's starting to get on my nerves now. I didn't get a chance to watch this yet, but I'm sure its the ramblings of a drunken fool.

 

 

 

[KDawg]

10 minutes ago, Simmsy said:

I know McAffe was a Colt, so there is some bias there, but he's starting to get on my nerves now. I didn't get a chance to watch this yet, but I'm sure its the ramblings of a drunken fool.

 

 

 

McAfee eggs on his guests.

 

Also I don't know why we, as Commander fans, get so easily rattled by negative opinions. We should be used to it by now

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, KDawg said:

McAfee eggs on his guests.

 

Also I don't know why we, as Commander fans, get so easily rattled by negative opinions. We should be used to it by now

 

McAfee hates Wentz, he's been killing him for a long time. 

 

I didn't realize it at the time we acquired hm but over time its become clear Wentz is kind of hated like Kirk Cousins and it seems to be for the same 3 reasons:

 

A.  they hate him for being good and not great.  With Kirk its because of the money, they expect him to be great because he's paid like he is.  If he were making something in the low 20s IMO the animosity would be much less.  For Wentz i think its because of his pedigree, the 2nd pick in the draft and he showed flashes of greatness that he hasn't been able to recapture.

 

B. Deserved or not, both dudes aren't deemed as QBs that play their best when the lights are brightest.  I didn't realize that Wentz has this rep until we acquired him.  I'd say this is the most consistent hit I've heard on Wentz from both friend and foe of him.  Again similar to Kirk.

 

C.  They are both somewhat aloof-very religious guys from the midwest.  Digesting Wentz it feels like he's more preachy in the locker room than Kirk.  But Kirk has the preacher father so his ties on that front run just as deep.  Both G guys in lockerooms with a lot of PG13-R driven guys so they don't quite fit in with everyone.

 

D. They are both gone from the previous team likely for the same reason.  The Colts owner found it unforgiveable that Wentz played poorly in a win or out game.  If you follow the Kirk contract narrative back then was the well was poisioned and they never recovered from the animosity that Bruce (Dan) imposed on the negotiation in the aftermath of the Giants game that kicked them out of making the playoffs.  Keim talked about how in the Spring they made it up to Kirk and the negotiations became nicer.  But the impression I got and i said so at the time was the damage was already done.  Kirk himself said in a podcast a couple of years ago that if they won that game he thinks he'd still be here. 

 

Personally i am not that worried about any of it.  I can deal with a "good" QB who isn't per se great.   We've had below average QB play.   As for the clutch stuff, will see.  If its true, he needs to learn not to press in big moments and some QBs do get better on that front over the time

 

As for the Kirk stuff, I know some hate the dude and any comparison is sacriledge.  I don't give a hoot about Kirk and the emotions he brings to some.  I cared about it once a lot but that was purely in the context of Bruce running this team into the ground.   I think Wentz stylistically is very different from Kirk but the hate-circumstances is oddly almost centered on the same stuff.  

Edited May 3, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Simmsy]

25 minutes ago, KDawg said:

McAfee eggs on his guests.

 

Also I don't know why we, as Commander fans, get so easily rattled by negative opinions. We should be used to it by now

 

It isn't the fact that it's what happened, it's because it seems like the fact that none of this is true. Why try so hard to trash the guy for so long, he's gone now...let it go.

[FootballZombie]

51 minutes ago, Simmsy said:

I know McAffe was a Colt, so there is some bias there, but he's starting to get on my nerves now. I didn't get a chance to watch this yet, but I'm sure its the ramblings of a drunken fool.

 

Anybody worrying that this video is some Omega disturbing slam piece on Wentz can relax. Its not nearly as bad as other similar media that has come out.

 

70% of the video is effusive praise for Ryan and how they love him

20% is Irsay making fun of his own team for how poorly they played at the end of the year

10% is Irsay saying Wentz tried his best and worked hard, but it just wasn't the right fit and is not the fit Ryan is.

 

Not that anyone should care what this dude says, but there are 1,000 worse videos of Irsay baggin' on Wentz than this one out there.

 

In this video at least, Pat himself does not really ding Wentz either.

[zCommander]

Is Taylor Heinicke still the backup?

Rivera on if Heinicke remains the backup QB:

“Taylor’s our backup, please understand that, that this is a guy that is going to grow and develop over a period of time,” Rivera said. “I mean, there’s no hurry to force him out there or anything like that. This is a good chance for him to get a real good education and develop and see what happens.”