The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Thinking Skins]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

But you're basically the only person who seems to think this is a successful strategy. NFL GMs, FOs, coaches...they all disagree. The teams that ended up with good QBs from the mid or low rounds didn't do that on purpose. They didn't have a strategy of "keep getting low round QBs until one hits." It was complete random luck.

 

And sure, you can find some "ok" QBs with mid or low round picks, but unless you get a one in a million guy like Brady they're probably not going to make you a perennial contender. They're basically space fillers who might help you be a mediocre team, but nothing more. That's why teams who have the Minshews, the Heinickes, the Mullens, etc pretty much always move on as soon as they have a shot at a better prospect.

BUt why do I think so? Because teams basically do this by default. You think the Titans wanted to wind up with Tannehill? They were all in on Mariota. But he was an injury liability and he wasn't getting better. Then he gets hurt and his backup comes in and looks good enough to have a defense and a running game to take them to the playoffs. He hasn't shown he can do anything in the playoffs but they just gavehim a 91 million dollar guaranteed contract. But they also drafted the guy with the most upside (or maybe another Mariota) in the draft. 

 

To me its not about finding the guy, its more about finding the guy before the guy. Some teams just need someone to stabilize things so that when you get a Big Ben, he can takeoff flying. You don't want your first round getting hit like David Carr did in Houston. Look at what Kyle Shanahan did with dude from Atlanta, Schaub, had them competing for the division title every year (I think they were always 8-8). Its not an unheard of way of thinking about it. Heck, its what Gruden did with Kirk and Colt. Its what he did again with Colt and Case. First rounders are the big names that I think owners want to sell tickets, but most coaches like to find the vet who can lead the team and won't be surprised by the limelight. 

[Thinking Skins]

I'm not a fan of the Junkies any more but I give them a listen because they are better than Sheehan and a good segment on them can be gold. Well I loved what they did with JLC's rankings of tiers. EB just gets the right emotion that either gets me just as passionate or makes me laugh. 

[HigSkin]

2 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I'm not a fan of the Junkies any more but I give them a listen because they are better than Sheehan and a good segment on them can be gold. Well I loved what they did with JLC's rankings of tiers. EB just gets the right emotion that either gets me just as passionate or makes me laugh. 

 

I'm with you.  He does have a point in that the media seems to want to take every chance to crap on Wentz.

[Thinking Skins]

Just now, HigSkin said:

 

I'm with you.  He does have a point in that the media seems to want to take every chance to crap on Wentz.

It just shows the bias against this franchise. Dude put up 27-7. I don't care about anythign else. Suddenly thats not anything. So when he has  4-1 TD /INT ratio, that's not enough. For every other QB who couldn't dream of that, its a goal. For Wentz anywhere else its ok, but we briing him in and it makes him a bum. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Colts OL pass protection #s suffered because Wentz likes to hold on to the ball. They've got two studs in their line in Kelly and Nelson. Our OL got worse with Scherff and Flowers departing. 

This is going to be interesting to watch, because Turner's offense is just DIFFERENT than the Pederson/Reich offense.  It will be interesting to see how it unfolds.  I think there is more 1-read-and-go stuff in Turner's offense, and more stretch the field concepts.  We have haven't seen them as much because Haskins(RIP)/Smith/Kyle Allen/TH couldn't really execute them, and Fitz played 16 plays.  

 

I'm not entirely sure what the numbers were, but TH also held the ball.  

 

Also, Scherfff, eh, yeah, he will be missed.  But he also didn't play 1/4 of the games per year. And the OL didn't completely crumble with him out of the lineup.  

 

Flowers I think they've adequately replaced and you're not going to see a real drop off.  

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

10 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

It just shows the bias against this franchise. Dude put up 27-7. I don't care about anythign else. Suddenly thats not anything. So when he has  4-1 TD /INT ratio, that's not enough. For every other QB who couldn't dream of that, its a goal. For Wentz anywhere else its ok, but we briing him in and it makes him a bum. 

All of those people who came out of the woodwork saying "don't trust the stats!"  "Reich had to change his play calling!"  "He wasn't as good as his numbers!" "Look at the "interceptable ball stats!"  

 

I don't think it a bias.  I think it's an agenda.  Everybody hates Dan Snyder SO MUCH that nothing anybody on his team does can be right, ever.  They say, "what have they done to earn the benefit of the doubt?" 

 

I counter with, "why do you automatically have to assume it's bad and then give them the benefit of the doubt?" 

 

It's like, I get it.  Dan stinks.  But by all accounts, Dan isn't doing any of this.  So instead of crushing absolutely everything, why not just let it play out with some pros/cons coverage?

 

Also, the media leads the fanbase opinion.  If every media outlet is going to trash them for everything, they are basically speaking into existence additional hatred.  This flows down to the coaches and players, because people are so disgusted they don't go to games, they don't support the tam in any meaningful way.  

 

And that leads to a harder time getting FAs to come here.  It's a vicious cycle.  

 

My biggest fear is Ron just throws his hands up at the end of the year and says, "I'm done.  I can coach football and build a team, but not with this anchor around my neck."  And then either JDR or some other has-been takes over and we're totally cooked.  

[Thinking Skins]

9 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Also, the media leads the fanbase opinion.  If every media outlet is going to trash them for everything, they are basically speaking into existence additional hatred.  This flows down to the coaches and players, because people are so disgusted they don't go to games, they don't support the tam in any meaningful way.  

 

And that leads to a harder time getting FAs to come here.  It's a vicious cycle.  

 

My biggest fear is Ron just throws his hands up at the end of the year and says, "I'm done.  I can coach football and build a team, but not with this anchor around my neck."  And then either JDR or some other has-been takes over and we're totally cooked.  

I no longer believe this. I see twitter reacting to these guys and sayig WTF. I see barber shop talk just laughing at these media people who refuse to talk washington football or only talk negative (looking at you Reese Waters). They laugh at those hosts like they did Jason Reid and Chris Paul when they had the Man Cave on 980 when they laughed at fans for thinking we'd go to the playoffs the year we went to the playoffs. 

 

Even here or HogsHaven or Reddit or Twitter or a bunch of other sites, we see the fans actively calling out the media. Its not all positive but I think people can clearly seeit with the Wentz stuff. They just call them what they are. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

12 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I no longer believe this. I see twitter reacting to these guys and sayig WTF. I see barber shop talk just laughing at these media people who refuse to talk washington football or only talk negative (looking at you Reese Waters). They laugh at those hosts like they did Jason Reid and Chris Paul when they had the Man Cave on 980 when they laughed at fans for thinking we'd go to the playoffs the year we went to the playoffs. 

 

Even here or HogsHaven or Reddit or Twitter or a bunch of other sites, we see the fans actively calling out the media. Its not all positive but I think people can clearly seeit with the Wentz stuff. They just call them what they are. 

You might be right to an extent.  

 

But in just about all facets of life, the media DOES set the narrative.  Because it controls the flow and timing of information.  

 

Why are SO many here upset about the draft?  Because the draft grades are poor because the analysts say we reached for a bunch of guys.  Why?  Because the Commanders didn't follow their plan.  

 

I bet you $100 that 90% of the fans who are griping about taking Dotson over not trading down and taking Hamilton or Williams had never heard of Dotson.  Why?  Because he wasn't in the media's top 4 WRs or Hamilton.  So clearly that has to be a reach, right?  

 

Well, it's just more complicated than that.  

 

But all the talking heads say "that was early for Dotson" and our local guys go, "See, Thor said that was high for Dotson!"  and then everybody goes sideways about how Ron has no ide what he's doing.

 

I get that it's not 100% true, but the media is leading perception.  Even if subtly so.  

[Thinking Skins]

Just now, Voice_of_Reason said:

But in just about all facets of life, the media DOES set the narrative.  Because it controls the flow and timing of information.  

 

Why are SO many here upset about the draft?  Because the draft grades are poor because the analysts say we reached for a bunch of guys.  Why?  Because the Commanders didn't follow their plan.  

That's part of it. But we are also inside of an echochamber. We're among the most talkative of fans here. We're like those callers who call into 980 every day. People come ere to read our opinions (not really mine since I'm not on here as much) and see us argue and come with facts and refute each other with more facts and argue about QBR vs YPA vs whatever. Same with Twitter, same with Reddit and hogshaven. 

 

But unlike this place, reddit and twitter were not created for this team. So you can see a lot more fans of this team from the point of view of not being an extreme fan. And interacting with them you get that they're fed up with the negative fans. The question is how many of them are there vs the extremely mad fans? Its hard to count but I know its out there and going to different parts of town you get different opinions. And its honestly nice to have a not so deep convo with fans where we're ganging up on Cowboys or Eagles or Giants fans for once. Dude in my barber shop is a Panthers fan so I laughed at him for getting  Darnold and he just shook his head. 

[Mrshadow008]

Sheehan really does not like getting called out 🤣🙃

[Mrshadow008]

28 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

That's part of it. But we are also inside of an echochamber. We're among the most talkative of fans here. We're like those callers who call into 980 every day. People come ere to read our opinions (not really mine since I'm not on here as much) and see us argue and come with facts and refute each other with more facts and argue about QBR vs YPA vs whatever. Same with Twitter, same with Reddit and hogshaven. 

 

But unlike this place, reddit and twitter were not created for this team. So you can see a lot more fans of this team from the point of view of not being an extreme fan. And interacting with them you get that they're fed up with the negative fans. The question is how many of them are there vs the extremely mad fans? Its hard to count but I know its out there and going to different parts of town you get different opinions. And its honestly nice to have a not so deep convo with fans where we're ganging up on Cowboys or Eagles or Giants fans for once. Dude in my barber shop is a Panthers fan so I laughed at him for getting  Darnold and he just shook his head. 

The negative fan thing is entirely accurate. I get being jaded and being reserved when it comes to this team. But theres a difference between that and the people that actively seek out positive posts just to be negative or constantly complain no matter what the team does. And it doesnt matter how many times you prove them wrong with stats or facts or whatever it doesnt matter because now youre suddenly a homer and kiss the teams butt no matter what they do. its honestly exhausting. and the media is awful Chris Russell to end his show the other day literally said hopefully someone says or does something stupid tomorrow so we have something to talk about smfh 

[Conn]

?? Twitter is even more negative than here lol, maybe Reddit is different but on twitter every mainstream Commanders-related tweet—whether it’s a reporter or a fantasy analyst or the team itself—has dozens if not hundreds of negative responses. Some of which could have come from here, some of which are even more overboard and hateful/dismissive. If your Commanders-related twitter feed is not filled with even worse negativity than here then that just means you follow a lot of positive fans and your bubble is secure. You may ask, how do I know my bubble isn’t just negative? Because I don’t have one, I don’t follow Commanders stuff on twitter so I just see the response to big football media and fantasy football media tweets, from fellow fans who I don’t follow. And….it’s negative, to put it lightly. Every once in a while you see a clueless person who says something like “why so negative?” and then gets mobbed.
 

So I’m sure there are corners of the internet, even bubbles on twitter etc., that are more positive on the Commanders. But they are definitely just like-minded people creating their own pseudo-communities without realizing it by gravitating towards follows and posts they enjoy, rather than being representative of the “real” silent majority sentiment, imo.

[Mrshadow008]

14 minutes ago, Conn said:

?? Twitter is even more negative than here lol, maybe Reddit is different but on twitter every mainstream Commanders-related tweet—whether it’s a reporter or a fantasy analyst or the team itself—has dozens if not hundreds of negative responses. Some of which could have come from here, some of which are even more overboard and hateful/dismissive. If your Commanders-related twitter feed is not filled with even worse negativity than here then that just means you follow a lot of positive fans and your bubble is secure. You may ask, how do I know my bubble isn’t just negative? Because I don’t have one, I don’t follow Commanders stuff on twitter so I just see the response to big football media and fantasy football media tweets, from fellow fans who I don’t follow. And….it’s negative, to put it lightly. Every once in a while you see a clueless person who says something like “why so negative?” and then gets mobbed.
 

So I’m sure there are corners of the internet, even bubbles on twitter etc., that are more positive on the Commanders. But they are definitely just like-minded people creating their own pseudo-communities without realizing it by gravitating towards follows and posts they enjoy, rather than being representative of the “real” silent majority sentiment, imo.

Im assuming this is in response to me above and If so I probably should’ve clarified better. Yes Twitter is really negative. Reddit is worse but not as many on Reddit as on Twitter obviously. Twitter does have quite a bit of positive a lot more than you think but the ones that are negative are REALLY negative and extremely loud in that negativity. 

[Thinking Skins]

32 minutes ago, Conn said:

?? Twitter is even more negative than here lol, maybe Reddit is different but on twitter every mainstream Commanders-related tweet—whether it’s a reporter or a fantasy analyst or the team itself—has dozens if not hundreds of negative responses. Some of which could have come from here, some of which are even more overboard and hateful/dismissive. If your Commanders-related twitter feed is not filled with even worse negativity than here then that just means you follow a lot of positive fans and your bubble is secure. You may ask, how do I know my bubble isn’t just negative? Because I don’t have one, I don’t follow Commanders stuff on twitter so I just see the response to big football media and fantasy football media tweets, from fellow fans who I don’t follow. And….it’s negative, to put it lightly. Every once in a while you see a clueless person who says something like “why so negative?” and then gets mobbed.
 

So I’m sure there are corners of the internet, even bubbles on twitter etc., that are more positive on the Commanders. But they are definitely just like-minded people creating their own pseudo-communities without realizing it by gravitating towards follows and posts they enjoy, rather than being representative of the “real” silent majority sentiment, imo.

My Twitter feed is mostly DC based. Not really football. Among them are a lot of fans though and the general vibe is mostly positive, yeah so that's part of it but there's also this large number of fans who want to talk real stuff and criticize the media and people when they are just so negative. I even have a few people I follow and talk with who are kinda leaders in that front generally adding why something was your first reaction, like the TD int thing. 

 

It's like what they say about the news. The news doesn't report on the valedictorians or the new PhDs. They report on the murders or the robberies or the car chases because that's what gets the ratings. 

 

Grant and Danny did like 4 months of segments about how much of a thug Deshaun Jackson was and all his gang involvement. But never apologized when he didn't get arrested because that means nothing. They did segments calling him names because he turned down a show up bonus to OTAs. It's just a game to them to make fun of the team. Callers play along but it's the same dozen callers.

 

Let Wentz have a good start and we'll see the fans getting positive again. It's just a question of will the media cover it. 

[KDawg]

Cooley’s Howell breakdown on Sheehan’s pod is along the lines of how I see Howell as well. I disagree with bits, like Howell’s ceiling. Cooley says he can be a capable starter but not top 15. I think he can be top 15. I don’t think he’s ever going to be one of the elites, though. So we’re not far off.

 

I’d sum it up but don’t feel like transcribing. That’s SIP’s Schtick anyways

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Cooley’s Howell breakdown on Sheehan’s pod is along the lines of how I see Howell as well. I disagree with bits, like Howell’s ceiling. Cooley says he can be a capable starter but not top 15. I think he can be top 15. I don’t think he’s ever going to be one of the elites, though. So we’re not far off.

 

I’d sum it up but don’t feel like transcribing. That’s SIP’s Schtick anyways

 

lol, I'll listen to it later.  I see he plugged Dotson.  Cooley isn't always right, no one obviously is, but he leans on the cynical side if anything so if he likes a player a lot its often a good sign

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Mrshadow008]

Wasn’t sure where else to post this so I figured the qb thread was as good as anywhere. Sure seems might convenient when the shanahan’s make a big trade for a qb that ends up not being what they thought it ends up being everybody else’s fault but their own. 

[DWinzit]

22 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

Wasn’t sure where else to post this so I figured the qb thread was as good as anywhere. Sure seems might convenient when the shanahan’s make a big trade for a qb that ends up not being what they thought it ends up being everybody else’s fault but their own. 

Poor Kyle is a victim again....he is the best coach out there 🙄

[Mrshadow008]

3 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Poor Kyle is a victim again....he is the best coach out there 🙄

I do find all the Kyle shanahan genius coach comments all the time funny especially the way we talk about Ron around here. Kyle shanahan 43-44 2 winning seasons vs 3 losing seasons. 

[SkinsFTW]

55 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

I do find all the Kyle shanahan genius coach comments all the time funny especially the way we talk about Ron around here. Kyle shanahan 43-44 2 winning seasons vs 3 losing seasons. 

 

Yeah he sucks.

 

Already been to 2 NFCCG's and a SB in 5 years, which no Redskins coach has been in 30 years. And he's done it both times with a QB who is inferior to Kirk Cousins. What a bum!

Edited May 5, 2022 by SkinsFTW

[Mrshadow008]

8 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

Yeah he sucks.

 

Already been to 2 NFCCG's and a SB in 5 years, which no Redskins coach has been in 30 years. And he's done it both times with a QB who is inferior to Kirk Cousins. What a bum!

Lol interesting cause Rivera went to do the playoffs in 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2017 and 2020 (with dwayne haskins, 1 legged Alex smith, and Kyle Allen) with with a 15-1 season and to a super bowl but people are real quick to point out his losing seasons huh? Outside of those two season kyle shannahan is 6-10, 4-12, and 6-10 you all would be screaming for him to be fired after year 2. Some of you want Ron fired after a 7-9 and a 7-10 season 

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, Mrshadow008 said:

I do find all the Kyle shanahan genius coach comments all the time funny especially the way we talk about Ron around here. Kyle shanahan 43-44 2 winning seasons vs 3 losing seasons. 

When his teams are fairly healthy they win. 2 of his 3 losing seasons they were absolutely decimated by injuries. 

 

Nobody gets more out of their offensive personnel than Kyle. 

[MrJL]

1 hour ago, Mrshadow008 said:

Wasn’t sure where else to post this so I figured the qb thread was as good as anywhere. Sure seems might convenient when the shanahan’s make a big trade for a qb that ends up not being what they thought it ends up being everybody else’s fault but their own. 

 

 

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

Poor Kyle is a victim again....he is the best coach out there 🙄

 

1 hour ago, Mrshadow008 said:

I do find all the Kyle shanahan genius coach comments all the time funny especially the way we talk about Ron around here. Kyle shanahan 43-44 2 winning seasons vs 3 losing seasons. 

 

well, if you look at his dad's history with QBs except Elway, I can kind of believe he was forced into the big trades.  Look at how Mike was with RB.  Pure plug and play.  What if he wanted to be the same way with QB.  Imagine how much of a genius he'd be treated in that case

[Mrshadow008]

6 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

When his teams are fairly healthy they win. 2 of his 3 losing seasons they were absolutely decimated by injuries. 

 

Nobody gets more out of their offensive personnel than Kyle. 

Does Ron get that same benefit of the doubt after last season? Just curious. And btw do I think Ron is a genius HC do I think Ron is an average to slightly above average HC yes. Same goes for Kyle I don’t think Kyle is a bum but I don’t think he’s some genius HC either. Just pointing out how the grass always seems to be greener on the other side 

7 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

 

 

well, if you look at his dad's history with QBs except Elway, I can kind of believe he was forced into the big trades.  Look at how Mike was with RB.  Pure plug and play.  What if he wanted to be the same way with QB.  Imagine how much of a genius he'd be treated in that case

I mean again just funny to me that mike doesn’t get the blame for RG3 and Kyles team makes the same trade for a similar prospect a decade later and magically when it doesn’t work out neither are to blame 

[SkinsFTW]

36 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

Lol interesting cause Rivera went to do the playoffs in 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2017 and 2020 (with dwayne haskins, 1 legged Alex smith, and Kyle Allen) with with a 15-1 season and to a super bowl but people are real quick to point out his losing seasons huh? Outside of those two season kyle shannahan is 6-10, 4-12, and 6-10 you all would be screaming for him to be fired after year 2. Some of you want Ron fired after a 7-9 and a 7-10 season 

 

It doesn't really matter what Ron did with the Panthers. Shanahan won 2 Super Bowls for the Broncos. So What? What did he do here under Doofus Dan? That is really the only thing that matters. Gibbs was the winningest coach in NFL History the first run. What happened the 2nd time? Not much but it looked hopeful in 2005 until Doofus Dan and Vinny the Clown decided to start messing around. 

 

Don't worry though. Kyle Shanahan wouldn't have even gone to a NFCCG or a SB in Washington.