The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[petey hodge]

On 4/15/2022 at 8:42 AM, zCommander said:

 

SAFE MY ASS!!!

 

 

 

UPGRADE YOUR PROTECTION....

 

I recommend these

 

 

[zCommander]

9 hours ago, petey hodge said:

 

UPGRADE YOUR PROTECTION....

 

 

Cool advice. It is not like I have been using Avast for over 20 years for free or even run an IT company. 

[NickyJ]

1 hour ago, zCommander said:

 

Cool advice. It is not like I have been using Avast for over 20 years for free or even run an IT company. 

Did you really get insulted by someone joking about using condoms as antivirus protection?

Edited April 17, 2022 by NickyJ

[zCommander]

2 hours ago, NickyJ said:

Did you really get insulted by someone joking about using condoms as antivirus protection?

 

Oh...haha I missed that...doh!

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

Oh...haha I missed that...doh!

God, I've never seen a poster so fantastically set up for a perfect retort and zinger before and completely and totally blow it.

 

I've got to say, I'm massively disappointed.  

 

"Been using them for years" would have been the most obvious reply.  "Not big enough" would have been good too.  God there are so many.  

 

Along with my other oath I've made in this thread, I also vow that if I am set up for size jokes in that manner, I WILL come through for the amusement of the masses.  On this I swear.  

Edited April 17, 2022 by Voice_of_Reason

[kingdaddy]

On 4/15/2022 at 1:53 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

E.  He thinks Wentz in particular needs Logan Thomas back healthy

History would suggest this is an understatement. Wentz is gonna need a good TE(s) to throw to. It'll also be interesting to see how much McKissic is used....

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

History would suggest this is an understatement. Wentz is gonna need a good TE(s) to throw to. It'll also be interesting to see how much McKissic is used....

The bold part is a good point.  And in this offense, it really is a question as to whether the traditional TE role is kindof split up amongst McKissic, Gibson and even Samuel if he’s healthy.  Also, Bates is still there and while he’s slow, he does run good routes and has good hands.

 

So we’ll see. 

[Jericho]

While Wentz has historically thrown a lot to TEs and RBs, I'm not clear how much of that is Wentz and how much of that is the personnel. In Philly, he had an excellent TE in Ertz. Indi has very good pass catching RBs. Neither franchise had much in the way of WRs during his tenure (hell, Travis Fulgham once led Philadelphia in receiving and he wasn't even on the team the next year). I'm less worried about providing specific provisions as much as just general talent. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

11 hours ago, Jericho said:

While Wentz has historically thrown a lot to TEs and RBs, I'm not clear how much of that is Wentz and how much of that is the personnel. In Philly, he had an excellent TE in Ertz. Indi has very good pass catching RBs. Neither franchise had much in the way of WRs during his tenure (hell, Travis Fulgham once led Philadelphia in receiving and he wasn't even on the team the next year). I'm less worried about providing specific provisions as much as just general talent. 

 

This is also a good point.  

 

The other thing that's interesting about this is the big knock on Wentz is he "always goes for the hero plays."  But that's not entirely true, given his propensity to throw to TEs and RBs.  

 

The more and more I think about it, the more and more I don't think we really know WHAT this offense under Turner/Wentz is going to look like.  

 

One thing which really stood out to me was a quote from Ron Rivera. I'm going to paraphrase, because I heard it on the Galdi podcast, and I can't find it.  So I'm not sure where it was said. It might have been during the owners meetings.  

 

But the gist of it was several things.  (I went back to try and find the exact quote, but I can't find it.  I'm not sure it was ever transcribed. It hit me hard, but it wasn't juicy enough to get an article about it.)

 

- They did the film work.

- They saw they types of plays which Carson likes/runs well which are part of their offense.  Clearly these concepts are going to continue to be included in the offense. 

- They saw the plays which Carson struggles with, but they are in Turner's offense. Ron said they need to make sure Carson can't run them, or isn't good at it, and then they will eliminate them from the playbook.  **** To borrow a Gibbism, this is "Super Smart." The number of coaches who try to cram what they want to do down a teams throat is immeasurable.  

- They saw the plays where Carson isn't necessarily great at, but they aren't a part of Turner's offense anyway, so who cares.

 

Ron also said these conversations with Turner have already started, and I'm sure they're going to continue throughout the off-season.  

 

** I also think what you're going to see in some preseason games is them calling some of those "category 2" plays from above to see if Carson hits them or bungles them.  And if he bungles them, then you're going to hear a WHOLE LOT of hue and cry from the media about how terrible Wentz is, how he can't do this, that or the other, they shouldn't have given up 2 day 2 draft picks for him, he's over-paid, yadda yadda yadda.  I feel like this is coming down the tracks like a steam train.

 

However, the only way you can really figure out if he's bad at something or not is to run it.  And the time to do that is in preseason.  So, he might run a few things badly in preseason, and the entire purpose of them being called was to see how he handles them.  If he's not good at it, then they're out of the playbook, and they'll do something different.

 

Which isn't going to stop no-nothing loudmouths like Russell, and in this case Sheehan, from going ape **** because of a preseason game.  

[Chris 44]

8 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

 

** I also think what you're going to see in some preseason games is them calling some of those "category 2" plays from above to see if Carson hits them or bungles them.  And if he bungles them, then you're going to hear a WHOLE LOT of hue and cry from the media about how terrible Wentz is, how he can't do this, that or the other, they shouldn't have given up 2 day 2 draft picks for him, he's over-paid, yadda yadda yadda.  I feel like this is coming down the tracks like a steam train.

 

However, the only way you can really figure out if he's bad at something or not is to run it.  And the time to do that is in preseason.  So, he might run a few things badly in preseason, and the entire purpose of them being called was to see how he handles them.  If he's not good at it, then they're out of the playbook, and they'll do something different.

 

Which isn't going to stop no-nothing loudmouths like Russell, and in this case Sheehan, from going ape **** because of a preseason game.  

I think we may wont to "sticky" this bit for future reference.

[Voice_of_Reason]

I heard this morning the team had some type of an "on site private workout" with Carson Strong.  Who is somewhere around the 4th - 6th rated QB on the board.  Clearly he would not be a target in the first or second rounds.

 

However, he absolutely could be a target in the 4th or 5th.  I thought he would be more of a 3rd round guy from what I've heard, but you never know.  

 

Strong is, as an athlete, kindof the mirror image of TH:

 

He has a gun for an arm, either the best or second best in this class behind Malik Willis.

He's big: (Listed at 6'4", 215 lbs)

He has the mobility of a parking structure set in concrete. He's never been a run threat.  In fact, in college, his only rushing yards were sack yards.  I don't know that he gained a single positive rush yard in his college career.  

 

However, he has been an accurate passer, completing about 70% of his passes, and averaged 44 passes per game for Nevada.  He has also been prolific.  NOTE: These stats sometimes mean nothing.  Colt Brennan (RIP), and some other college QBs have thrown for a million yards in college but couldn't make it happen at the NFL level.  Strong is somewhat different in that he has size and arm talent.  But college production doesn't always translate to the NFL.  

 

He also has significant right knee injury issues, and said he had cartilage from a cadaver in his right knee.  So, that's a wee bit troubling.  

 

You could absolutely draft him in the 4th or 5th round and say "if Wentz flames out, Strong would be a young guy with some physical skills who knows the offense going into 2023."   And given his accuracy and his arm, if he picks up Turner's system, he could actually be a pretty good starter.  Or he could be a backup on a rookie deal for the next 2-3 years, which is valuable.  

 

Alternatively, his right leg might fall off  below the knee on the walk from the plane to the Uber Black to take him from the airport to Command Central.  HIs mobility might be so bad he can't actually operate an NFL offense.  

 

But it's interesting the team is showing this kind of attention to Strong.  It could ABSOLUTELY be a smoke screen.  

 

Or it could be real interest.  Or it could have been real interest, they met him, and decided his mobility was so poor he wasn't a fit. Who knows.

 

I've brought him up before.  If they could grab him in the 4th or 5th, I would do it.  Wentz is far from a sure thing, they could use a young guy with upside in the building, and they need a 3rd QB on the roster to accompany the incoming UDFA they will sign to be a camp arm. 

 

But it is interesting and notable.  So I noted it here.  

[FootballZombie]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

Bringing in a young QB makes all the sense in the world, as long as its not someone that Wentz senses as threatening as that has had a history of being problematic w/ Hurtz being a mid 2nd rounder. No need to repeat past troubles.

 

Even I would think Wentz would be cool w/ a QB in rounds 4 or later. A potential QB in rounds 1 or 2 would physically manifest an amber alert about Wentz mental state from me and a round 3 QB would pushing the envelope to a dangerous degree, but a 4th should be OK. Seeing as we don't have a 3rd right now, it will be difficult for the team to make such a move.

 

We have to get more arms and the draft is a great place to pick one up.

Edited April 18, 2022 by FootballZombie

[Voice_of_Reason]

13 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Bringing in a young QB makes all the sense in the world, as long as its not someone that Wentz senses as threatening as that has had a history of being problematic w/ Hurtz being a mid 2nd rounder. No need to repeat past troubles.

 

Even I would think Wentz would be cool w/ a QB in rounds 4 or later. A potential QB in rounds 1 or 2 would physically manifest an amber alert from me and a round 3 QB would pushing the envelope to a dangerous degree, but a 4th should be OK. Seeing as we don't have a 3rd right now, it will be difficult for the team to make such a move.

 

We have to get more arms and the draft is a great place to pick one up.

Yeah, I don’t actually care about that.  If Wentz is so mentally fragile he can t handle competition from a rookie at this point, I think you have the wrong guy.  
 

Though I also don’t think they should pick a QB in the first couple of rounds because if you’re in in Wentz then you’ve got to be in and use those assets to fill other holes.

 

BUT in the 4th? They need 2 more QBs and at least one who isn’t just a practice squad guy.  And if Wentz is irritated by that, so be it.  He should be able to beat out (handily) a 4th round rookie who moves slower than a grandma in a walker. 

[Thinking Skins]

38 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Yeah, I don’t actually care about that.  If Wentz is so mentally fragile he can t handle competition from a rookie at this point, I think you have the wrong guy.  
 

Though I also don’t think they should pick a QB in the first couple of rounds because if you’re in in Wentz then you’ve got to be in and use those assets to fill other holes.

 

BUT in the 4th? They need 2 more QBs and at least one who isn’t just a practice squad guy.  And if Wentz is irritated by that, so be it.  He should be able to beat out (handily) a 4th round rookie who moves slower than a grandma in a walker. 

As of the trade, I'm out of the Strong or Ridder picks, even if they drop. I'd rather spend the few picks we have on players that will contribute this year. 

 

That said, I wouldn't mind signing a guy like Aqeel Glass as an UDFA or trading up or down in the seventh to get him. He's a big QB from a small school who we could probably develop into a backup but has all the tools to be a sleeper. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

As of the trade, I'm out of the Strong or Ridder picks, even if they drop. I'd rather spend the few picks we have on players that will contribute this year. 

 

That said, I wouldn't mind signing a guy like Aqeel Glass as an UDFA or trading up or down in the seventh to get him. He's a big QB from a small school who we could probably develop into a backup but has all the tools to be a sleeper. 

I get that.  But we need 2 additional QBs.  One practice squad/camp arm type.  And one guy who can be the third string (or push TH for the backup). We’ve used 3 QBs per year since 2018.  We need 3 who can play.

 

I’d be fine grabbing one in the 4th or 5th.

 

Also, thinking down the road, that’s about the territory you get backups. If you get a backup QB for 3 years on a rookie 4th/5th round contract, that’s pretty good.  

[Forever A Redskin]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I get that.  But we need 2 additional QBs.  One practice squad/camp arm type.  And one guy who can be the third string (or push TH for the backup). We’ve used 3 QBs per year since 2018.  We need 3 who can play.

 

I’d be fine grabbing one in the 4th or 5th.

 

Also, thinking down the road, that’s about the territory you get backups. If you get a backup QB for 3 years on a rookie 4th/5th round contract, that’s pretty good.  

 

Carson Strong if we pick up picks or Jack Coan late rounds

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, Forever A Redskin said:

 

Carson Strong if we pick up picks or Jack Coan late rounds

I like both, FAR.  If we can get Coan with our last pick or better yet sign him if he doesn't get drafted as a priority UDFA to compete with TH that would be ideal.  Who do we have that can come of the bench and play, God forbid if something happens to Wentz?  TH doesn't have the arm to get the ball to our WR targets. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

6 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I like both, FAR.  If we can get Coan with our last pick or better yet sign him if he doesn't get drafted as a priority UDFA to compete with TH that would be ideal.  Who do we have that can come of the bench and play, God forbid if something happens to Wentz?  TH doesn't have the arm to get the ball to our WR targets. 

Keep in mind UDFA’s are tricky because they have choices.  If you like a guy, draft him. 
 

I mean, if your starter goes down 90% of the time you’re screwed in the long term.  You might be able to survive in the short term.

 

I have faith in Turner to scheme it up for a game or two with any backup QB.  But more than that, we’re screwed. 

[kingdaddy]

7 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I have faith in Turner to scheme it up for a game or two with any backup QB.  But more than that, we’re screwed. 

Depends on how the defense plays and how healthy we are on offense as to how good the team does if Wentz goes down. As you know, TH won games against some good teams with very little talent around him due to injuries. We are not screwed given our last place schedule and having TH in relief. Give TH a good supporting cast to work with in his second season as the primary backup and we are in no way "screwed". We can win with TH, that's why the staff has kept him on the roster....

[RWJ]

2 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Depends on how the defense plays and how healthy we are on offense as to how good the team does if Wentz goes down. As you know, TH won games against some good teams with very little talent around him due to injuries. We are not screwed given our last place schedule and having TH in relief. Give TH a good supporting cast to work with in his second season as the primary backup and we are in no way "screwed". We can win with TH, that's why the staff has kept him on the roster....

But the big problem with him KD is that he can't throw the ball downfield like Wentz.  If he had the arm to do so we wouldn't have Wentz.  We need an arm that can take advantage of the speed we have in Terry M, Brown, Samuel and possibly Olave, London, Wilson.  

[Koolblue13]

On 4/16/2022 at 8:53 PM, zCommander said:

 

Nice. I won a Taylor jersey couple of years back at my local bar. I really don't go to games. I have been to like 3 in the last 20 years. Will see if that changes this year.

I found a Terry Allen 21 at the flea market and turned it into a ST21 jersey about 15 years ago, but I don't have it now.

 

I want a black Bates Jersey.

 

So glad we can get a jersey that's not Burgundy or Gold. ****ing awful colors.

[Skinsinparadise]

17 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I

 

I've brought him up before.  If they could grab him in the 4th or 5th, I would do it.  Wentz is far from a sure thing, they could use a young guy with upside in the building, and they need a 3rd QB on the roster to accompany the incoming UDFA they will sign to be a camp arm. 

 

But it is interesting and notable.  So I noted it here.  

 

I've written an encyopedia's worth of stuff on Wentz on the draft thread in particular, I watched his college season, most of it, from game 1. 

 

He's intriguing.  Early on in the draft process, you'd think no way he'd drop further than the early 2nd round.  But he's arguably not had a hot draft season so to speak starting from the Senior Bowl.   Among other things supposedly he has a bit of a weird goofy personality, some suggested he wasn't a hot interview with some teams but who knows?  

 

But he in this group throws the best deep ball IMO.  Smart guy who Peyton Manning style actively resets the offense on the line of scrimmage when needed.  Accuracy IMO is typically good in spite of some of his struggles at the Senior Bowl practices.   Not hot IMO under pressure and making plays on the move.  But maybe a season to just sit and rest his knee, might do him a lot of good. 

 

In the mid rounds IMO he's a better get than the typical mid round QB.   Keim has talked a couple of times including recently that they are interested in him. 

Edited April 19, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[redskinss]

24 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I've written an encyopedia's worth of stuff on Wentz on the draft thread in particular,

I assume you meant strong?

[seantaylor=god]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

So glad we can get a jersey that's not Burgundy or Gold. ****ing awful colors.

This may be unpopular but 100% accurate. Ketchup and mustard are bad colors. I do like the new matte burgundy helmets though.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I found a Terry Allen 21 at the flea market and turned it into a ST21 jersey about 15 years ago, but I don't have it now.

 

Damn, the Terry Allen 21 would actually have been a cool thing to have.  That would be kindof a little vintage.  

 

I have thought about collecting some "vintage" jerseys.  Not to wear, just to have to represent eras, and also not for "obvious" players. Like, Chris Cooley, Clinton Portis, Chris Samuels and Santana Moss would be "obvious" for the Gibbs II era.  I might go for a Jon Jansen. Who was really popular, but never quite the same level of popular ad the other guys, but I think extremely important. 

 

In those Norv years, Terry Allen was really good for us.  I'd also look for a Stephon Davis jersey, who was, for a while, my favorite player on the team.  Maybe a 'Skins Trent Green jersey, what could have been had we had an owner and been able to extend him.  

 

11 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Depends on how the defense plays and how healthy we are on offense as to how good the team does if Wentz goes down. As you know, TH won games against some good teams with very little talent around him due to injuries. We are not screwed given our last place schedule and having TH in relief. Give TH a good supporting cast to work with in his second season as the primary backup and we are in no way "screwed". We can win with TH, that's why the staff has kept him on the roster....

I have sworn a solemn oath not to discuss the skills and abilities of Taylor Heinicke.  I will not break that oath, even when tempted.