The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

Caught up with Sheehan's podcast.   Same stuff as his radio show with the exception of he sold his two sources on Wilson being willing to come here are super reliable sources.   He's skeptical though about Seattle being willing to trade him and if they do why trade him to the NFC?

 

I caught some of Chris Russell talk about it.  @Voice_of_Reason swears that Russell is never wrong for what it's worth? 😀   I like Russell but he's a caveman when it comes to the Qb position, he's for years talked up how overrated the QB spot is, of late he's backed off of that some but still I found it amusing that he thought he'd offer a first or 2nd rounder and a player for Wilson but not more than that.  He also said that Dan is very impatient but so is Ron Rivera at this given time, implying they might make a monster offer to get whomever they target.

 

5 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think it’s the week after the SB.  They will give the SB it’s due, the the week after, that’s when things happen.  
 

The commish was very unhappy about the Alex Smith trade because it came before the SB.  And stole from the discussion.  I don’t think we (or anybody) is going to do that again.  

 

Stafford trade also happened before the SB

Edited February 7, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

1 hour ago, Redskins 2021 said:

If Rodgers, Carr, Wilson, and Watson don't move there could be a bidding war on Jimmy G. There may be a bidding war. 

 

Teams 

Car

Den

Cle

Ind

Tb

No

Pitt

 

It may not be worth what the cost will be for him. 

What a sad state of affairs if there is a bidding war of any kind for Jimmy G no less 7 teams

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I caught some of Chris Russell talk about it.  @Voice_of_Reason swears that Russell is never wrong for what it's worth? 😀   I like Russell but he's a caveman when it comes to the Qb position, he's for years talked up how overrated the QB spot is, of late he's backed off of that some but still I found it amusing that he thought he'd offer a first or 2nd rounder and a player for Wilson but not more than that.  He also said that Dan is very impatient but so is Ron Rivera at this given time, implying they might make a monster offer to get whomever they target.

the idea of them making a monster deal is looming...and it scares the crap out of me as what on earth they throw out there

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Stafford trade also happened before the SB

So teams aren't allowed to officially make trades yet correct? Do they have the all set and wait to officially announce it when allowed? 

Edited February 7, 2022 by DWinzit

[Spaceman Spiff]

Well, Twietnam is exploding with the news that Kyler Murray has deleted all photos of him associated with the Cardinals from his social media.

 

Passive aggressive bull**** aside, I'd ship 4 first rounders tomorrow for him and call it a day.

 

Flame on.

[Anselmheifer]

4 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Well, Twietnam is exploding with the news that Kyler Murray has deleted all photos of him associated with the Cardinals from his social media.

 

Passive aggressive bull**** aside, I'd ship 4 first rounders tomorrow for him and call it a day.

 

Flame on.

I think you can only include 3 in a trade. 

[KDawg]

7 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I think you can only include 3 in a trade. 

I’d still give 4.

[Skinsinparadise]

28 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

 

the idea of them making a monster deal is looming...and it scares the crap out of me as what on earth they throw out there

 

 

Doesn't scare me at all, I went them to swing hard for the fences.  It's about time.

 

I strongly suspect they get that they need to do something dramatic on this front.

 

I strongly suspect if they miss on one of these QBs they will be shocked at the backlash they get for a Jimmy G move or Trubisky.  I think they'd think they can sell it especially if its with a rookie but my guess is they will fail to sell it unless its one of the seixer first round QBs versus Ridder or Strong or Zappe.  

 

In their defense, I get a strong feeling that they know they need to land a big fish and would expect not much excitement from their fallback plan.  But I think they would be surprised at the level of vitroil they'd get for it. 

 

I like Rivera, I think he's done a good job and I think no chance Dan fires him anytime soon.  Dan is stupid but I don't think he's that stupid where he doesn't get the fallout from firing Ron coupled with the organization already is seen as a dumpster fire.  But I do suspect that Ron doesn't get the level of cynicism with this fanbase in particular at the QB spot.  It's guilty before innocent now.  He won't get the benefot of the doubt because of all that happened before he got here.  And that's not Ron's fault but its a function of all the swings and misses at that spot.  And Jimmy G would feel so Brunell, Alex Smith, McNabb. 

 

Many (me too) love the Alex Smith story.  But at the same time he didn't move the needle at all with fans when he played here.  We went from 6th in the league in attendance in 2017 to 27th in attendance the year Alex played.  Heck we had a winning record and so did the Texans during the game he got hurt, and you could see fans didn't care, the stadium was relatively empty.

 

Fans I believe want a QB who brings some jazz, not just competence.  If it were like 2013 or so we could get away with Jimmy G but in 2022 fans IMO will yawn.

 

28 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

 

So teams aren't allowed to officially make trades yet correct? Do they have the all set and wait to officially announce it when allowed? 

 

Can agree in principle and then the deal becomes official at the start of the league year (March FA)

Edited February 7, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[bowhunter]

It sucks not having lucked into the right QB in decades. I pretty much believe that not one pat answer fits all situations. It's impossible to have the "QB of the future" if your roster is deprived of draft picks, traded away talent, and money. Similarly, it's unwise to spend a first round pick on a QB just to say you did. We tried that approach at LB last year, and although Jamin may become something, it was not a wise use of a 1st round pick. (I know this all sounds rudimentary.) So talks of trades of Chase, 3 firsts, and a mega salary for RW to boot is just as unappealing as spending #11 on a pick that the FO has doubts is capable of being "the" guy. Risk vs reward. I don't mind a little riverboat Ron steering the ship, but even Riverboats run aground when there's a drunken sailor at the helm.

 

So far what seems most appealing to me is

-if a worthy pick is there at 11, be it Corral, Willis, or (yikes Pickett) and the FO thinks there's a good chance they'll become something, make the pick

-utilize other assets to build the team, (ie trade Payne for anything lower than a mid round 2nd in value) Find a partner

-use the (2nd) rounder from Payne to trade for a 2023 1st. In fact, stockpile picks by doing so every year. That way, we always have tons of draft capital when needed.

-We aren't in a "win now" window. There are holes all over the team. Selling the farm for a 32+ year old QB to be added to THIS roster is foolhearty. We should build a team, not rent one.

-easier said than done

Edited February 7, 2022 by bowhunter

[HigSkin]

56 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Caught up with Sheehan's podcast.   Same stuff as his radio show with the exception of he sold his two sources on Wilson being willing to come here are super reliable sources.   He's skeptical though about Seattle being willing to trade him and if they do why trade him to the NFC?

 

I caught some of Chris Russell talk about it.  @Voice_of_Reason swears that Russell is never wrong for what it's worth? 😀   I like Russell but he's a caveman when it comes to the Qb position, he's for years talked up how overrated the QB spot is, of late he's backed off of that some but still I found it amusing that he thought he'd offer a first or 2nd rounder and a player for Wilson but not more than that.  He also said that Dan is very impatient but so is Ron Rivera at this given time, implying they might make a monster offer to get whomever they target.

 

 

 

Thought it was also interesting they said Charlie Casserly mentioned teams used to create a 5 year plan but now that's down to 2 years.  Fans, media and owners all have no patience to develop and build a team anymore.

 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by HigSkin

[Voice_of_Reason]

53 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I caught some of Chris Russell talk about it.  @Voice_of_Reason swears that Russell is never wrong for what it's worth? 😀 

Yup.  I’m his biggest fan.  I think his take on Haz, Barry, Manusky and QBs should be engraved in pure gold and hoisted to the rafters of FedEx and preserved in posterity.  

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Yup.  I’m his biggest fan.  I think his take on Haz, Barry, Manusky and QBs should be engraved in pure gold and hoisted to the rafters of FedEx and preserved in posterity.  

 

He will remind you Barry s coaching up that GB Packers defense. 

 

But yeah no one loves a mediocre to bad coordinator like Russell

[Renegade7]

48 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’d still give 4.

 

Three 1st and Chase Young.

 

 

[RWJ]

21 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

Thought it was also interesting they said Charlie Casserly mentioned teams used to create a 5 year plan but now that's down to 2 years.  Fans, media and owners all have no patience to develop and build a team anymore.

 

 

 

That right, HigSkin.  That's why I think RR and Co. know they have to get a legit QB this year.  

[MrJL]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

I’d still give 4.

 

three first rounds for Murray and then a first rounder for a Cardinals seventh in one of those drafts

[Renegade7]

33 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

Thought it was also interesting they said Charlie Casserly mentioned teams used to create a 5 year plan but now that's down to 2 years.  Fans, media and owners all have no patience to develop and build a team anymore.

 

One of the biggest problems I have with Casserly's comment is that 5 year plans are never presented at least to our fans with clear year to year goals.

 

Year one always starts with the cliche "our goal is to win a super bowl" knowing we are gutting a roster that won like two games the previous season.  There's no "we plan to win x number of games by this year" or "we plan to have this level of production from our first round QB by this year".  

 

There's no metrics to hold them accountable to, and I get it, some of it is out of their control, but again, 5 year plans without metrics to gage progress comes across as needing 5 years to accomplish something which could mean anything. 

 

I wish someone would jus be straight with me and say "we are gutting a terrible roster, we are drafting a rookie QB, and we don't expect to be over .500 until year three".  Then I could say, "cool, let's revisit this conversation in three years then".

 

But no, we are sold get rich quick schemes every year that blow up on an annual basis, so no, 2 years or 5 years, we've lost patience with the BS more then anything else.  Without clear expectations and annual metrics to point to, yea, I lose patience because I become convinced there aren't any.

 

I would gladly debate a plan if I could confirm there was one, how many times have we come to realize there either wasn't one or was a bad one at best by deducing the rhetoric and results?

[Redskins 2021]

4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

One of the biggest problems I have with Casserly's comment is that 5 year plans are never presented at least to our fans with clear year to year goals.

 

Year one always starts with the cliche "our goal is to win a super bowl" knowing we are gutting a roster that won like two games the previous season.  There's no "we plan to win x number of games by this year" or "we plan to have this level of production from our first round QB by this year".  

 

There's no metrics to hold them accountable to, and I get it, some of it is out of their control, but again, 5 year plans without metrics to gage progress comes across as needing 5 years to accomplish something which could mean anything. 

 

I wish someone would jus be straight with me and say "we are gutting a terrible roster, we are drafting a rookie QB, and we don't expect to be over .500 until year three".  Then I could say, "cool, let's revisit this conversation in three years then".

 

But no, we are sold get rich quick schemes every year that blow up on an annual basis, so no, 2 years or 5 years, we've lost patience with the BS more then anything else.  Without clear expectations and annual metrics to point to, yea, I lose patience because I become convinced there aren't any.

 

I would gladly debate a plan if I could confirm there was one, how many times have we come to realize there either wasn't one or was a bad one at best by deducing the rhetoric and results?

 Winning the division that first year kinda threw everything off. 

[mistertim]

I love how we just keep upping the ante on thinking which QBs may be available to us for trade. First it was Watson, then Rodgers, then Wilson, then Carr, and now it's Murray. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[mhd24]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Or Jimmy G

[Renegade7]

6 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

 Winning the division that first year kinda threw everything off. 

 

Threw what off?

 

There was no communication of annual metrics to hold them accountable to when Rivera took the job to say we were ahead of schedule or exceeding expectations.  We all just assumed that.

 

Winning the division changed our expectations as fans, we overachieved with a last place schedule.  I am happy we did that, I am furious our organization decided to skip steps in the rebuild because of it.

 

Winning the division is no excuse for punting on drafting a QB for what looks like a possible third off-season in a row.  Our roster got exposed this year, we are still rebuilding and struggling to add talent, which would be acceptable if we weren't backing ourselves into a corner and trying to win now by trading for a veteran.

 

We aren't going through the growing pains of a young roster or rookie QB.  We are losing because we don't have enough talent to make up for our band-aid attempts to get by at QB.  We trade our draft capital away for a win now QB, we'll lose at least half our cap space and our way to add cheap young talent around him.  That's not a rebuild, it's a get rich quick scheme.

[FootballZombie]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

On the bright side we can do basically anything at QB next yr and be better off. No where to go but up!

 

 

Sam Darnold is outpacing us right now...

[Voice_of_Reason]

55 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He will remind you Barry s coaching up that GB Packers defense. 

 

But yeah no one loves a mediocre to bad coordinator like Russell

This year is literally the only successful year of Barry as a coordinator. He entered the year as the statistical worst DC in the history of the NFL. 
 

And when they needed to stop the 49ers, they couldn’t.  
 

He’s still terrible.  And next year when Rodgers is in Denver, they’ll be the worst defense in the league.  Not always playing with a lead and having the luxury of a top 5 offense helps the defense.  

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, bowhunter said:

It sucks not having lucked into the right QB in decades. I pretty much believe that not one pat answer fits all situations. It's impossible to have the "QB of the future" if your roster is deprived of draft picks, traded away talent, and money. Similarly, it's unwise to spend a first round pick on a QB just to say you did. We tried that approach at LB last year, and although Jamin may become something, it was not a wise use of a 1st round pick. (I know this all sounds rudimentary.) So talks of trades of Chase, 3 firsts, and a mega salary for RW to boot is just as unappealing as spending #11 on a pick that the FO has doubts is capable of being "the" guy. Risk vs reward. I don't mind a little riverboat Ron steering the ship, but even Riverboats run aground when there's a drunken sailor at the helm.

 

So far what seems most appealing to me is

-if a worthy pick is there at 11, be it Corral, Willis, or (yikes Pickett) and the FO thinks there's a good chance they'll become something, make the pick

-utilize other assets to build the team, (ie trade Payne for anything lower than a mid round 2nd in value) Find a partner

-use the (2nd) rounder from Payne to trade for a 2023 1st. In fact, stockpile picks by doing so every year. That way, we always have tons of draft capital when needed.

-We aren't in a "win now" window. There are holes all over the team. Selling the farm for a 32+ year old QB to be added to THIS roster is foolhearty. We should build a team, not rent one.

-easier said than done

I would trade back in this years draft to try and acquire a second #1 pick in next years draft when there's supposed to be a better QB class. Get as many assets as we can to go for a stud rook next year...kick the can down the road one more year because this year doesn't seem to be the year to draft a QB. Sign Trubisky or Huntley and trade back to have picks in next year so we can move up as high as we need to go. Like you say, there's no surefire answer but this is how I would play it. 

[CapsSkins]

3 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I would trade back in this years draft to try and acquire a second #1 pick in next years draft when there's supposed to be a better QB class. Get as many assets as we can to go for a stud rook next year...kick the can down the road one more year because this year doesn't seem to be the year to draft a QB. Sign Trubisky or Huntley and trade back to have picks in next year so we can move up as high as we need to go. Like you say, there's no surefire answer but this is how I would play it. 

 

Except if you were Ron Rivera entering Year 3 on the job, you'd know you can't afford to kick the can a year down the road again. You did that last year.

 

They have to find a solution this year and pray it works, whether Vet or Rookie.

[Burgold]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

 

Thought it was also interesting they said Charlie Casserly mentioned teams used to create a 5 year plan but now that's down to 2 years.  Fans, media and owners all have no patience to develop and build a team anymore.

 

 

 

Think it's odd to create a five-year plan when the average career of an NFL player is three years.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Except if you were Ron Rivera entering Year 3 on the job, you'd know you can't afford to kick the can a year down the road again. You did that last year.

 

They have to find a solution this year and pray it works, whether Vet or Rookie.

 

Found our FO's role model: